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You insist that the “AKJV” is the “exact word of God”.
How can that be when they've inadvertently added spurious words to their text?
Or do you ADMIT that the AKJV is NOT the “exact word of God”? Do you ADMIT that it contains MISTAKES made by men?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2012,03:59) You insist that the “AKJV” is the “exact word of God”.
Hi Mike,Did you not read my last post?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2012,03:59) (1)do you ADMIT that the AKJV is NOT the “exact word of God”? (2)Do you ADMIT that it contains MISTAKES made by men?
Hi Mike, OK1) The Bible was written in: Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek; your point is moot! but you will likely repeat it.
1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic),
or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate]2) Yep: man is fallible, God is infallible.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Mike,
It's good to seek agreement.
Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?To agree to disagree, is to AGREE TO A LIE!
I will never agree to that. I And I hope you will never as well.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgHas anyone here read any of Bart D. Ehrman's books? I have been reading two of his books so far, “Jesus Interrupted”, and “Forged”. These books are very interesting.
I had know idea that biblical scholars agreed that many of Paul's books were not written by him but were forgeries. The consensus is that he definitely did not write I and 2 Timothy or Titus. Many don't believe that he actually wrote Ephesians, Colossians, and 2 Thessalonians. As well they believe that 1 and 2 Peter are also forgeries.
Also interesting are the discrepancies between what Acts says about Paul and what Paul says about himself, they don't agree! Then we have all the discrepancies within the Gospels, good grief, they make the cannon IMO into a complete JOKE!!
How on earth people can say that the bible is the inerrant, inspired, infallible word of God, when it is full of mistakes, and so many different translations exist, is beyond my understanding!
Ed J, you had said,
“The Bible” we have today was no accident, it is exactly the way YHVH wanted it!” ….and…”The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it is exactly the way YHVH wanted it!”That is your opinion based on your faith, which you have every right to have. However I see it quite differently, it is the way YHVH allowed a corruptible and false church to continue in lies and deceit.
As well Ed J, to defend your position using David and Paul as if they were talking about the books the Roman Catholic Church picked to be “God's words” is just plain silly to me.
It's just weird, the gospels say different things, they can't all be right. Scholars agree that Matthew and Luke wrote their gospels USING Mark's, and they changed, left out and added what they wanted in order to serve their own agendas and theologies, or in some cases they heard a different oral tradition from what Mark wrote so they changed it. None of the authors were writing thinking that their work would be combined together with three others and those would equal God's truth! They each have their OWN version of the truth, and when Christians try to create truth from the four, they then create a fifth version of the truth!!
They certainly were not ALL inspired by God. Were any? I am not sure at this point, if I should believe that the gospel we “call” the gospel of Mark was written through the Holy Spirit, or rather if I should just believe that it is probably the most accurate history of Jesus because it was written first, and therefore would more likely contain the oral traditions that were true….hmm..
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 29 2012,03:20) It's just weird, the gospels say different things, they can't all be right.
Hi Jodi,What 'so called' differences would you like to discuss?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 29 2012,03:20)
They certainly were not ALL inspired by God.
Hi Jodi,You have yet to provide any evidence let alone prove anything.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgCompare the death of Jesus between Mark and Luke,
In Mark,
In the morning of being crucified Jesus answers nothing to the chief priests who accuse him of many things. He says only to Pilate, “It is as you say.”Jesus is silent while being taken to be crucified, and while being crucified. He says nothing to the other men who are being crucified with him. At last he says before he dies, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me”.
To be silent while being beaten, mocked and crucified and then crying out “why have you forsaken me” is completely different message then Luke’s.
In Luke,
In the morning he speaks to the chief priests and says, “If I tell you, you will by no means believe me. And If I also ask you, you will by no means answer me or let me go. Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God.”They then ask him if he is the Son of God and he answers them and says, “You rightly say that I am”
Jesus is not silent on his way to being crucified. He tells woman weeping over him, ” Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, Blessed are the barren wombs that bore, and the breasts which never nursed! Then they will begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us! And to the hills, Cover us! For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?”
He says before they divided his garments, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do”
He says to the thieves on the cross, “Assuredly, I say to you today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
He says before dying, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.”
In Mark,
After Jesus dies it says that the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the centurion says, “truly this man was the Son of God”In Luke,
The veil of the temple was torn in two just BEFORE Jesus dies, and the centurion says after Jesus dies, “certainly this was a righteous man”This IMO Ed J, is a huge problem. Mark’s message is completely different than that of Luke's. Jesus has a completely different disposition in both, and to combine the two of them together to establish truth is absurd.
This is what Bart Ehrman says on this matter in his book, “Jesus Interrupted”
“The problem comes when readers take these two accounts and combine them into one overarching account, in which Jesus says, does, and experiences everything in both Gospels. When that is done, the message of both Mark and Luke get completely lost and glossed over. Jesus is no longer in deep agony, as In Mark, (since he is confident as in Luke), and he is no longer calm and in control as in Luke (since he is in despair as in Mark). He is somehow all things at once. Also, his words mean something different now, since he utters the sayings of both. When readers then throw both Matthew and John into the mix, they get an even more confused and conflated portrayal of Jesus, imagining wrongly that they have constructed the events as they really happened. To approach the stories in this way is to rob each author of his own integrity as an author and to deprive him of the meaning that he conveys in his story.”
I would have to agree with Ehrman on this. I find it hard to believe that YHVH intended for us to take the four and combine them together to establish the truth, that is absurd, because it is impossible. If you combine Luke’s with Mark’s you ruin what both authors are trying to say in their own work.
Let's compare John's to that of Mark and Luke's.
In Mark on the cross Jesus does not take the wine, in Luke there is no mention of wine, in John Jesus says, “I thirst!” and scripture says, “they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a hyssop, and put it to his mouth. So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And bowing his head, He gave up His spirit.”
Not only do we ruin the message of what each author is giving when we combine them, but to try and combine them, as I already said, is just simply impossible. You cannot have Jesus NOT drinking any wine, and drinking wine at the same time.
If that were true Nick then I would have to believe that the “Spirit” you are speaking of does nothing but work delusions into the mind.
I have no intention at this point to believe that the “Holy Bible” as it is called by Christians, is a work of the Holy Spirit. It is a product of the decisions of men who were PAGAN converts, picking, choosing, arguing through their own theologies at what should be “Gods word”, for the benefit of a Roman Emperor and his political agenda!!
Hi Jodi,
Indeed Festus thought Paul was mad[acts 26.24]
It is indeed a fearful step for many to rely more on what is written than what our natural instincts dictate.We must be transformed by renewal of our minds.[rom 12]
But a sound mind is promised.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.If you do not know the Spirit you cannot judge the work of the Spirit.
If the “spirit” you speak of Nick tells you that the bible is a Holy work, then by all means believe it.
How does the “spirit” you speak of Nick harmonize the fact that one book says Jesus drank wine before he died and another says that he did not. Did he or did he not drink wine? Why would God allow his “Holy Word” to say two different things, when they both cannot be correct?
Hi Jodi,
In Mark 15.23 it is the offering of WINE MIXED WITH MYRRH which is refused.Later in Mk 15.36 it describes him taking SOUR WINE
In Matthew 27.48 the offering is taken of SOUR WINEThis is timewasting.
Please READ the scripturesMatthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” 47 Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said, “This Man is calling for Elijah!” 48 Immediately one of them ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink. 49 The rest said, “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him.” 50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
Mark 15:33 Now when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” 35 Some of those who stood by, when they heard that, said, “Look, He is calling for Elijah!” 36 Then someone ran and filled a sponge full of sour wine, put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink, saying, “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to take Him down.” 37 And Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last. 38 Then the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 So when the centurion, who stood opposite Him, saw that He cried out like this and breathed His last, he said, “Truly this Man was the Son of God!”
Luke 23:35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.” 36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.” 38 And an inscription also was written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew: THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. 39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” 40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” 43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” 44 Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. 45 Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. 46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, 'into Your hands I commit My spirit.' ” Having said this, He breathed His last. 47 So when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God, saying, “Certainly this was a righteous Man!”
John 19:28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
At the ninth hour what did Jesus say?
“Father, 'into Your hands I commit My spirit.”
Or
“My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
Or
“It is finished”
Was it one person that gave Jesus sour wine? and that person said , “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him.”
Or
Was it one person that gave Jesus the sour wine and then “The rest said, “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him.”
Or
“The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”
When was the veil of the temple torn in two, before or after Jesus died?
When was Jesus offered the wine? Was it before or after the ninth hour?
What did the centurion say?
“Certainly this was a righteous Man!”
Or
“Truly this Man was the Son of God!”
To All,
We don't need four gospels that say different things, we need one that gives us the truth!
Hi Jodi,
You hear the acoounts of the witnesses to the events seen and heard from their vantage points.Would they all see and hear exactly the same things from where they stood in the tumult of a crucifixion or would some pick up one detail and others another?
Ever spoken to witnesses of a car accident and tried to establish just what happened?
Why would you wish to make scripture argue with itself-are you greater than the AUTHOR?
It was not a scripted play.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 29 2012,06:41) Compare the death of Jesus between Mark and Luke, In Mark,
In the morning of being crucified Jesus answers nothing to the chief priests who accuse him of many things. He says only to Pilate, “It is as you say.”Jesus is silent while being taken to be crucified, and while being crucified. He says nothing to the other men who are being crucified with him. At last he says before he dies, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me”.
To be silent while being beaten, mocked and crucified and then crying out “why have you forsaken me” is completely different message then Luke’s.
In Luke,
In the morning he speaks to the chief priests and says, “If I tell you, you will by no means believe me. And If I also ask you, you will by no means answer me or let me go. Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God.”They then ask him if he is the Son of God and he answers them and says, “You rightly say that I am”
Jesus is not silent on his way to being crucified. He tells woman weeping over him, ” Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, Blessed are the barren wombs that bore, and the breasts which never nursed! Then they will begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us! And to the hills, Cover us! For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?”
He says before they divided his garments, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do”
He says to the thieves on the cross, “Assuredly, I say to you today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
He says before dying, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.”
In Mark,
After Jesus dies it says that the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the centurion says, “truly this man was the Son of God”In Luke,
The veil of the temple was torn in two just BEFORE Jesus dies, and the centurion says after Jesus dies, “certainly this was a righteous man”This IMO Ed J, is a huge problem. Mark’s message is completely different than that of Luke's. Jesus has a completely different disposition in both, and to combine the two of them together to establish truth is absurd.
This is what Bart Ehrman says on this matter in his book, “Jesus Interrupted”
“The problem comes when readers take these two accounts and combine them into one overarching account, in which Jesus says, does, and experiences everything in both Gospels. When that is done, the message of both Mark and Luke get completely lost and glossed over. Jesus is no longer in deep agony, as In Mark, (since he is confident as in Luke), and he is no longer calm and in control as in Luke (since he is in despair as in Mark). He is somehow all things at once. Also, his words mean something different now, since he utters the sayings of both. When readers then throw both Matthew and John into the mix, they get an even more confused and conflated portrayal of Jesus, imagining wrongly that they have constructed the events as they really happened. To approach the stories in this way is to rob each author of his own integrity as an author and to deprive him of the meaning that he conveys in his story.”
I would have to agree with Ehrman on this. I find it hard to believe that YHVH intended for us to take the four and combine them together to establish the truth, that is absurd, because it is impossible. If you combine Luke’s with Mark’s you ruin what both authors are trying to say in their own work.
Let's compare John's to that of Mark and Luke's.
In Mark on the cross Jesus does not take the wine, in Luke there is no mention of wine, in John Jesus says, “I thirst!” and scripture says, “they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a hyssop, and put it to his mouth. So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And bowing his head, He gave up His spirit.”
Not only do we ruin the message of what each author is giving when we combine them, but to try and combine them, as I already said, is just simply impossible. You cannot have Jesus NOT drinking any wine, and drinking wine at the same time.
Hi Jodi,Matthew, Mark, and, John was most likely there when Jesus was taken. John, however, was at the crucifixion.
The others follow-up accounts were probably based on what the women said that were there at the cross.If they were copies of each other, as you suggest, they would be worded exactly the same.
Luke was the Apostle Paul's travel companion, and Paul is said to have met with Peter.Since they are all chronological records based on actual eyewitness accounts, it would
only stand to reason then the story would very slightly form witness to witness.Certainly nothing to loose faith over.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Jodi,
These slight variants only adds to the veracity of the Scriptures.
If there's anything else that troubles you, please so say; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2012,08:28) Hi Jodi,
In Mark 15.23 it is the offering of WINE MIXED WITH MYRRH which is refused.Later in Mk 15.36 it describes him taking SOUR WINE
In Matthew 27.48 the offering is taken of SOUR WINEThis is timewasting.
Please READ the scriptures
In Mark 15 it never actually says that Jesus took wine. The wine with myrrh it specifically says that he did not take it, but the sour wine offered later it does not say whether he took it or not.In Matthew 27 he is also offered wine twice, the first time he is offered sour wine mingled with gall, he tastes it but does not drink it. The second offering it does not say whether he drank it or not.
In Luke 23 he is offered sour wine once by the soldiers who are mocking him.
In John 19 he is offered sour wine once, right before he dies, and it says that he receives it.
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