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Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2009,18:05) I realize you keep “saying” you are not attacking God…and then go on to attack God's Word, the Bible. “How do you know that the bible is REALLY God's word?. . . .I am serious questioning the validity and authenticity of the bible. The bible is said to be GOD's word.. correct. Well the more and more I read the bible the more and more I see that the bible and the “GOD” of the bible named “YHWH” are not as in unity with the moral principles that are exspoused in the book as I thought….I am having a hard time believing in this “GOD” and his “Bible”“–page 1, dirty
When you say you are not attacking God, what you mean is, you are not attacking your idea of God.
But you are attacking the God of the Bible. You apparently believe a God exists, but that he has not used the Bible to make himself known. You'll probably say we should all call him “god” and get rid of names like allah or buddha, Jesus, etc, and that it won't matter what we believe about our personal god, as if he doesn't want to be known or wouldn't attempt to communicate with us. It seems your aim is to make God unknowable, to create doubt that we could ever know the truth. I wonder who has done that before?“for folks like David…who think we are attacking GOD…”–dirty
I think you are creating doubt about God. Would this be considered attacking him?
“DK and other fellow doubters:”–Not3
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….0;st=90
If I may….I don't think any of us “doubters” doubt God, but we have (and some of us still do) doubt the bible in it's totality.
Hi not3,
As long as you love the Spirit of that bible and do not sit in judgement over what is sacred.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2009,19:28) Hi not3,
As long as you love the Spirit of that bible and do not sit in judgement over what is sacred.
Hi Nick,I had to read your statement a few times to let it sink in….
The problem is, “…over what is sacred.”
There are many questions that have been laid out on the table surrounding what is sacred, and what is not. To my knowledge, these questions have no conclusive/universal pat answer. So then, “…what is sacred” is different for various people/groups/cultures.
The Bible is one way; it is one “sacred” book(s).
Just for the record…I AM NOT AN ATHEIST…
I consider myself somewhat of a deist…..
I believe that GOD exists…I just think that he is MUCH MUCH bigger than the walls of any one faith… I believe the bible has SOME things that are of GOD….but everything attributed to him in the bible I can't believe he did (see the beginnings of this thread for specifics)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2009,08:10) Hi DK,
Should we only accept what we like about God?
No…we should accept only what is true…as shown by his characterQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2009,05:34) Hi DK,
So you can define God according to your idea of righteousness?
Nope…but we can define him by HIS OWN standards of righteousness…Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 02 2009,07:48) Hi DK,
So what God has said we must do applies also to Him?
Your god is too small.
Absolutely….whats good for the goose is good for the gander….simply put..if it is a sin for us to murder..it is a sin for GOD to murder…
People try to hide behind this statement:
“Well since GOD created us…he has the right to tell us what to do, destroy us, and punish us”
Which is true…to a certain extent…but GOD can not be MORALLY bigger than the “moral standards” he says we should keep…
And here is why…if a certain sin transgresses AGAINST GOD…then GOD in turn would have to be held to same standard regarding that transgression… because if he didnt then he would be effectively sinning AGAINST himself…
The bible says he is “Perfect in all ways”…therefore I can easily deduce from that statement that he WOULD NOT..no.. CAN NOT transgress against himself….
This is true even of man made governments…ALL governments have a set of rules that the people who it presides over are to follow….although the GOVERNMENT created the rules…that does not make them exempt from following them (even tho they do all the time 😉 )
I know I know….you consider that example apples and oranges…”GOD cant be held to the same standards as men”
you are probably thinking…again refer back to the begin of this post…He absolutely can and HAS to be…when it comes to MORAL transgression…the sin can not be said to be AGAINST him if this is not the case
(refer back to the beginning of this post)To All……….if God did not do what He tells us to do that would make Him a hypocrite, His laws and comandments are an expression of His own Heart to us. IMO
love and peace to you all……………………….gene
Quote (dirtyknections @ Dec. 11 2008,03:30) ..Ok my friends…I have been doing a lot of soul searching and I have a very serious question for the Heaven.net family…
Alright here goes….(takes deep breath)How do you know that the bible is REALLY God's word?
Now before you answer the question let me clarify…I for one do not doubt that “GOD” exists….I have my reasons for believing…but I would like clarification on why people believe the GOD of the “bible” whose name is “YHWH” and has a son named “Yeshua” is the one true GOD of the universe…
Simply put, Why do you believe in the GOD of the bible?
Why is someone's belief in Allah, Buddha, Vishu, Nature…not right? (aka…false worship)
Part of my conviction on this matter comes to to the following line of reasoning:the bible is objectively proven to be reliable historically…
it speaks of Jesus, His words and deeds….
Jesus was shown to be the true Son of God, the sinless Messiah, by His resurrection from the dead…
therefore what Jesus said is true…
Jesus spoke of the written word (the OT) as being “from God” or “God's words”….
He promised the Holy Spirit to His followers so that they could faithfully recount His teachings….
Jesus did not lie, thus the NT…
therefore the Bible, based on the authority of Jesus, is God's word to man…..
Yet, I cannot help but to realize, after all my time with atheists and persons of other faiths that the “evidence” for the uniqueness of the bible is not itself, enough to convince…. any more than the “objective evidence” in creation is enough to convince a person that God is, and that they are sinners desperately in need of God's forgiveness….. so it seems that here, as in salvation, God's Spirit is necessary to convince…. admittedly this is subjective, but one can't help being subjective really, even if one is subjectively denying the existence of God or the authority of the Christian canon of Scriptures…
Excerpts from Westminster Confession of Faith, chapt. I
IV. The authority of the holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or Church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the Author thereof; and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.
V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the holy Scripture; and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet, notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit, bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.”
For more on this subject, please see a great article by BB Warfield:
http://www.lgmarshall.org/Warfield/warfield_divineorigin.htmland another by John Frame:
http://www.frame-poythress.org/frame_articles/1974Scripture.htmlblessings,
kenHi E,
Creeds are at best poor reflections of truth.
Read the bible.God sent His own Spirit to infuse, educate and save men through His Son.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,07:46) Hi E,
Creeds are at best poor reflections of truth.
Read the bible.God sent His own Spirit to infuse, educate and save men through His Son.
Hi NHDid Ken even mention a creed!
Why can't you just give a high five for the truth now and then rather than always seek to find fault?
WJ
PS By the way Ken, Good post!
Hi WJ,
Should we offer the deductions and expositions and creeds of men instead of scripture?Luke 6:48
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
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