THE BIBLE and GOD

[Tiffany]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 19 2008,18:58)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,18:48) Hi not3, Man shall not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. And that I do….God has told me a lot of things.

Question still is where did you get the knowledge of God that you have? Did you not get the Word of God out of the Bible? I believe that God gave you the words of God where it is written down. We get all knowledge from all written words. I believe that those Words are most from the Apostles they are Eye Witnesses. Knowing that I for one rather believe in the Bible then any other literature.
Peace and Love Irene

[dirtyknections]

Quote (epistemaniac @ Dec. 19 2008,16:36)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Dec. 11 2008,06:25) OK..lemme take it even further..lets talk about why we believe that the bible is GOD's word… I am going to put it very bluntly…you and I believe(d) that the bible is GOD's word because of the area of the world you (me) were born… Simply put, we were born into an area of the World where the prevailing and promoted faith is “Christianity”… Lets make it even simpler…people believe what they are taught…you were taught about Yahweh and Jesus using the lands holy book the bible…so therefore you believe in the GOD that you were taught to believe in… But if we really think about the world…it could be just as easy for us to have been anything else..lets prove it…. I was born in America..the predominant faith is Christianity..therefore I believe …as..statistics shows would happen…that the bible is GOD's word and therefore I worship the GOD of the Bible..YHWH… Ok..say I was born in the middle east…well statistics show that…I would problem have been Muslim and believed in Islam…I would believe that the KORAN was ALLAH's word and therefore I would worship the “GOD” of the Koran Allah… see how easy that was…go out on the web and look up religious statistics..specifically geographical breakdowns of the worlds religions..they will probably show it graphically in a pie chart..like this site does http://biglizards.net/Graphic….rge.png Each different colored slice of the pie represents a different religion…and those slices also geograpically correspond to a specific region of the world… You see where I am going with this… You believe what you believe based on what you are taught…generally… Religiously speaking…statistics prove that you just as easily be could be worshipping another “GOD” and be viewing the holy book of the region as his “WORD”.. SO ask again…how do you know that the “GOD” of the “Bible” is THE true GOD? And do you would have ended believing in “Jesus” and the Bible if you had lived in a place where Another GOD and holy book were Revered? let me also be blunt, you should not presume or assume you know why I personally believe what I believe. I was born into a non-religious family, my mother came from a Roman Catholic family, but was non-practicing, partied a lot and was a drug abuser and left our family and my dad many times for other men… my father did not come from a religious family at all…. true, I was born in the midwest…. the “bible belt”…. and Christianity was the dominant religion, but I also went to college as a non-believer, was exposed to world religions who had their own sacred writings, and to “Christian” cults like the JWs and the Mormons who all had their own “scriptures” as well… I did not accept or reject any claims to divine writings and inspiration without looking into it as best as I could, albeit I painfully aware that I am a sinful, limited, person who can only do so much research….. what made me accept the Scriptures as being the only truly inspired word of God came about, probably, as a result of reading Josh McDowell's “Evidence that Demands a Verdict”…. he documents what separates the Christian Scriptures from many other world religions and their sacred writings…. as I matured as a Christian I continued to read on this subject…. ie in many other systematic theologies and books dealing with this subject in particular… but I think that I could lay it out in this way…: it all comes down to Jesus…. now I believe that the gospels have been shown to have been historically accurate, I believe they accurately recount the words and works of Jesus Christ of Nazareth…. I believe that Jesus is who He said He was, God of very God… (never mind the ongoing debate here re this subject, all agree, I think, that Jesus was without sin and that is the most germane point in relation to this particular line of thought) in other words, He cannot make a mistake…. I believe that the resurrection is a historically accurate account as well…. and that if He did rise from the dead, this authenticates everything He said and did as being of God…  all His information was accurate…. now He claims the OT scriptures are in fact the word of God…. either they are or they aren't.. if they aren't, I have to dismiss Jesus as being a reliable spiritual guide…. Jesus also promised His disciple that they would receive help from the Holy Spirit to accurately recount His words and deeds and this is how we got the NT….. blessings, ken

Hey Ken…I really have no problem with you believing and following the bible….I just don't think the bible represents all that GOD is…

There are to many inconsistencies and to much Moral breakdown within the scriptures…to accurately represent an ALL loving GOD….I spoke on some of these things earlier in the thread….

As far as why you believe…I appreciate you sharing this story….but it still leads me to the same conclusion…statistics show that you believe because of where you are….(not trying to minimize or discredit your other more spiritual experiences..brother ken..i'm just talking stats here)

Frankly, its a lot easier to “believe” when everyone else around you “believes”…thats just human nature…its called “ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONING”…

Again…I acknowledge..wholeheartedly your spiritual experiences in Christianity….but if I am to acknowledge yours…I have no choice but to acknowledge everyone elses…

Oh yes…you mention the resurrection…and you mention the historical veracity of the Bible…I have a question…How come not ONE secular source apart from the bible recognizes as a historical fact the resurrection of Jesus Christ…or better yet when Christ died..the bible says that tombs were shaken open and the dead in them came alive and began to walk about….

Something that MIRACULOUS…if true…know doubt would have been recorded by the secular sources of the generation and time period..but what do we find?

NOTHING..just the bible….I'm sorry…as Jesus himself said…believe on the account (eyewitness) of 2 or 3 witnesses…

Matthew 18:16
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

I'm sorry…brother ken…but the Miraculous claims in the bible don't meet the requirements…

Now before you mention..Josephus…and tertullian…and Ptolemy…remember they just verified SOME of the Historical references made in the bible…the Miraculous have no verification…

[Tiffany]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Dec. 20 2008,02:44)

Quote (epistemaniac @ Dec. 19 2008,16:36) Quote (dirtyknections @ Dec. 11 2008,06:25) OK..lemme take it even further..lets talk about why we believe that the bible is GOD's word… I am going to put it very bluntly…you and I believe(d) that the bible is GOD's word because of the area of the world you (me) were born… Simply put, we were born into an area of the World where the prevailing and promoted faith is “Christianity”… Lets make it even simpler…people believe what they are taught…you were taught about Yahweh and Jesus using the lands holy book the bible…so therefore you believe in the GOD that you were taught to believe in… But if we really think about the world…it could be just as easy for us to have been anything else..lets prove it…. I was born in America..the predominant faith is Christianity..therefore I believe …as..statistics shows would happen…that the bible is GOD's word and therefore I worship the GOD of the Bible..YHWH… Ok..say I was born in the middle east…well statistics show that…I would problem have been Muslim and believed in Islam…I would believe that the KORAN was ALLAH's word and therefore I would worship the “GOD” of the Koran Allah… see how easy that was…go out on the web and look up religious statistics..specifically geographical breakdowns of the worlds religions..they will probably show it graphically in a pie chart..like this site does http://biglizards.net/Graphic….rge.png Each different colored slice of the pie represents a different religion…and those slices also geograpically correspond to a specific region of the world… You see where I am going with this… You believe what you believe based on what you are taught…generally… Religiously speaking…statistics prove that you just as easily be could be worshipping another “GOD” and be viewing the holy book of the region as his “WORD”.. SO ask again…how do you know that the “GOD” of the “Bible” is THE true GOD? And do you would have ended believing in “Jesus” and the Bible if you had lived in a place where Another GOD and holy book were Revered? let me also be blunt, you should not presume or assume you know why I personally believe what I believe. I was born into a non-religious family, my mother came from a Roman Catholic family, but was non-practicing, partied a lot and was a drug abuser and left our family and my dad many times for other men… my father did not come from a religious family at all…. true, I was born in the midwest…. the “bible belt”…. and Christianity was the dominant religion, but I also went to college as a non-believer, was exposed to world religions who had their own sacred writings, and to “Christian” cults like the JWs and the Mormons who all had their own “scriptures” as well… I did not accept or reject any claims to divine writings and inspiration without looking into it as best as I could, albeit I painfully aware that I am a sinful, limited, person who can only do so much research….. what made me accept the Scriptures as being the only truly inspired word of God came about, probably, as a result of reading Josh McDowell's “Evidence that Demands a Verdict”…. he documents what separates the Christian Scriptures from many other world religions and their sacred writings…. as I matured as a Christian I continued to read on this subject…. ie in many other systematic theologies and books dealing with this subject in particular… but I think that I could lay it out in this way…: it all comes down to Jesus…. now I believe that the gospels have been shown to have been historically accurate, I believe they accurately recount the words and works of Jesus Christ of Nazareth…. I believe that Jesus is who He said He was, God of very God… (never mind the ongoing debate here re this subject, all agree, I think, that Jesus was without sin and that is the most germane point in relation to this particular line of thought) in other words, He cannot make a mistake…. I believe that the resurrection is a historically accurate account as well…. and that if He did rise from the dead, this authenticates everything He said and did as being of God…  all His information was accurate…. now He claims the OT scriptures are in fact the word of God…. either they are or they aren't.. if they aren't, I have to dismiss Jesus as being a reliable spiritual guide…. Jesus also promised His disciple that they would receive help from the Holy Spirit to accurately recount His words and deeds and this is how we got the NT….. blessings, ken Hey Ken…I really have no problem with you believing and following the bible….I just don't think the bible represents all that GOD is… There are to many inconsistencies and to much Moral breakdown within the scriptures…to accurately represent an ALL loving GOD….I spoke on some of these things earlier in the thread…. As far as why you believe…I appreciate you sharing this story….but it still leads me to the same conclusion…statistics show that you believe because of where you are….(not trying to minimize or discredit your other more spiritual experiences..brother ken..i'm just talking stats here) Frankly, its a lot easier to “believe” when everyone else around you “believes”…thats just human nature…its called “ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONING”… Again…I acknowledge..wholeheartedly your spiritual experiences in Christianity….but if I am to acknowledge yours…I have no choice but to acknowledge everyone elses… Oh yes…you mention the resurrection…and you mention the historical veracity of the Bible…I have a question…How come not ONE secular source apart from the bible recognizes as a historical fact the resurrection of Jesus Christ…or better yet when Christ died..the bible says that tombs were shaken open and the dead in them came alive and began to walk about…. Something that MIRACULOUS…if true…know doubt would have been recorded by the secular sources of the generation and time period..but what do we find? NOTHING..just the bible….I'm sorry…as Jesus himself said…believe on the account (eyewitness) of 2 or 3 witnesses… Matthew 18:16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' I'm sorry…brother ken…but the Miraculous claims in the bible don't meet the requirements… Now before you mention..Josephus…and tertullian…and Ptolemy…remember they just verified SOME of the Historical references made in the bible…the Miraculous have no verification…

[Not3in1]

Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 19 2008,20:46)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 19 2008,18:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,18:48) Hi not3, Man shall not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. And that I do….God has told me a lot of things. Question still is where did you get the knowledge of God that you have? Did you not get the Word of God out of the Bible? I believe that God gave you the words of God where it is written down. We get all knowledge from all written words. I believe that those Words are most from the Apostles they are Eye Witnesses. Knowing that I for one rather believe in the Bible then any other literature. Peace and Love Irene

I met the Lord when I was a little girl – hiding in my closet – praying that I wouldn't get caught in the crossfire! I had never read a bible.

[david]

Quote

You believe what you believe based on what you are taught…generally…

Yes, “generally.” I was taught Catholicism. Yet, I don't believe it.

The earliest Christians were taught Judaism. Yet, they found something better.

It's true that different parts of the world have groups of religions and if you live in one part of the world, there is a much higher likelyhood that you are of that religion. If you live in Asia, you have a much higher chance of being born into a buddhist family, then if you're born in Canada.

But, this does not support your anti-Christian, anti-Bible argument.

Here's why:

MATTHEW 24:14.

Guess what the second main religion is in many countries? In the Vatican, of course you expect to find Catholics. Because that's who are born there and that's who move there. But despite that, the good news is being preached by others there, as well….Same goes for countries with high levels of buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

Quote

SO ask again…how do you know that the “GOD” of the “Bible” is THE true GOD?

Because he is the only one that is capable it seems of delivering this message to all the world.

If a God exists, who created us, I have to think he wants us to know him, just as any Father would want their son to know them. The other 'gods' are making no real effort to let people know they exist. They are not trying to reach everyone. And to me, if they did exist, that seems unfair.

As well, for me, if a true God exists, he'd not only want his message out, but he'd make it available to mankind. The Bible in whole or part is available almost everywhere. It's been estimated that there have been between 6 and 7.5 billion Bibles printed.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (david @ Dec. 21 2008,17:19)

As well, for me, if a true God exists, he'd not only want his message out, but he'd make it available to mankind.  The Bible in whole or part is available almost everywhere.  It's been estimated that there have been between 6 and 7.5 billion Bibles printed.

And would He also confound the language of all the earth so that they could not understand it?

Tim

[meerkat]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2008,01:29)

Quote (david @ Dec. 21 2008,17:19) As well, for me, if a true God exists, he'd not only want his message out, but he'd make it available to mankind. The Bible in whole or part is available almost everywhere. It's been estimated that there have been between 6 and 7.5 billion Bibles printed. And would He also confound the language of all the earth so that they could not understand it? Tim

Hmm,

Good point …….

anything to do with 2 Th 2:11

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (epistemaniac @ Dec. 19 2008,17:13)

let me add that all these historical evidences are good for the strengthening of the faith of the already faithful…. when it comes to the bible being the word of God, I believe that ultimately it comes down to the Holy Spirit's illumination and conviction that the words are the words of God…. for more on this, read Calvin's Institutes, Book I, chapters 7 and 8, its available free online…. also check out a great article by the scholar J Gresham Machen who taught at Princeton until the Liberals began to take over, he left and helped to found Westminster…. a first rate scholar…. http://www.the-highway.com/bible_Machen.html….. also see http://www.svchapel.org/resources/Lessons/read_lessons.asp?id=3 and http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Bibliology/ a debate between an Islamic scholar and Dr James White on the bible is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT_yGgPYuZA let me also add these words by James Montgomery Boice, from his Systematic Theology entitled “Foundations of the Christian Faith”… this is what I tried to say earlier, but Boice is saying it much better than I could… and if you want the whole chapter, let me know and I would be glad to email it to you… “The Witness of Jesus Christ The most important reason for believing the Bible to be the Word of God written and hence the sole authority for Christians in all matters of faith and conduct is the teaching of Jesus Christ. Today it is common for some to contrast the Bible's authority unfavorably with Christ's. But such a contrast is unjustifiable. Jesus so identified himself with Scripture and so interpreted his ministry in the light of Scripture that it is impossible to weaken the authority of one without at the same time weakening the authority of the other. Christ's high regard for the Old Testament is first seen by the fact that he appealed to it as an infallible authority. When tempted by the devil in the wilderness, Jesus replied three times by quotations from Deuteronomy (Mt. 4:1-11). He replied to the question of the Sadducees about the heavenly status of marriage and the reality of the resurrection (Lk. 20:27-40), first by a rebuke that they did not know either the Scriptures or the power of God and second, by a direct quotation from Exodus 3:6, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” On many occasions Jesus appealed to Scripture in support of his actions, as in defense of his cleansing of the temple (Mk. 11:15-17) or in reference to his submission to the cross (Mt. 26:53-54). He taught that the “scripture cannot be broken” (Jn. 10:35). He declared, “Till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished” (Mt. 5:18). Matthew 5:18 deserves some additional consideration. It is evident, even as we read the phrase after a space of some two thousand years, that the words “not an iota, not a dot” were a common expression referring to the most minute parts of the Mosaic law. The iota was the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet, the letter that we would transliterate by an i or y. In written Hebrew it resembled a comma, though it was written near the top of the letters rather than near the bottom. The dot (or tittle, kjv) was what we would call a serif, the tiny projection on letters that distinguishes a roman typeface from a more modern one. In many Bibles Psalm 119 is divided into twenty-two sections, each beginning with a different letter of the Hebrew alphabet. If one's Bible is well printed, the English reader can see what a dot is by comparing the Hebrew letter before verse 9 with the Hebrew letter before verse 81. The first letter is a beth. The second is a kaph. The only difference between them is the serif. The same feature distinguishes daleth from resh and vau from zayin. According to Jesus, then, not even an “i” or a “serif” of the law would be lost until the whole law was fulfilled. What can give the law so permanent a character? Obviously nothing human, for all things human pass away. The only basis for the law's imperishable quality is that it is actually divine. The reason it will not pass away is that it is the Word of the true, living and eternal God. That is the substance of Christ's teaching. Second, Jesus saw his life as a fulfillment of Scripture. He consciously submitted himself to it. He began his ministry with a quotation from Isaiah 61:1-2. “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord” (Lk. 4:18-19). When he had finished reading he put the scroll down and said, “Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing” (v. 21). Jesus was claiming to be the Messiah, the one about whom Isaiah had written. He was identifying his forthcoming ministry with the lines set out for it in Scripture. Later in his ministry we find disciples of John the Baptist coming to Jesus with John's question, “Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?” (Mt. 11:3). Jesus answered by a second reference to this section of Isaiah's prophecy. He said, in effect, “Don't take my word for who I am. Look at what Isaiah foretold about the Messiah. Then see if I'm fulfilling it.” Jesus challenged people to evaluate his ministry in the light of God's Word. The Gospel of John shows Jesus talking to the Jewish rulers about authority, and the climax of what he says has to do entirely with Scripture. He says that nobody would ever believe in him who had not first believed in the writings of Moses, for Moses wrote about him. “You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me…. Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; it is Moses who accuses you, on whom you set your hope. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” (Jn. 5:39, 45-47). At the end of Jesus' life, as he is hanging on the cross, he is again thinking of Scripture. He says, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (a quotation from Ps. 22:1). He says that he thirsts. They give him a sponge filled with vinegar that Psalm 69:21 might be fulfilled. Three days later, after the resurrection, he is on the way to Emmaus with two of his disciples, chiding them because they have not used Scripture to understand the necessity of his suffering. He says, “O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” Then, “beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (Lk. 24:25-27). On the basis of these and many other passages it is beyond doubt that Jesus highly esteemed the Old Testament and constantly submitted to it as to an authoritative revelation. He taught that the Scriptures bore a witness to him, just as he bore a witness to them. Because they are the words of God, Jesus assumed their complete reliability, in whole and to the smallest part. Jesus also endorsed the New Testament though in a different form from his endorsement of the Old Testament (because, of course, the New Testament had not ye t been written). He foresaw the writing of the New Testament. So he chose the apostles to be the recipients of the new revelation. There were two qualifications of an apostle, as Acts 1:21-26 and other passages indicate. First, the apostle was to be one who had known Jesus during the days of his earthly ministry and had been a witness of his resurrection in particular (vv. 21-22). Paul's apostleship was undoubtedly challenged at this point because he became a Christian after the return of Christ to heaven and thus had not known him in the flesh. But Paul cited his vision of the resurrected Christ on the road to Damascus as having met this requirement. “Am I not an apostle?… Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?” (1 Cor. 9:1). The second requirement was that Jesus had chosen the apostle for his unique role and task. As part of this he promised a unique giving of the Holy Spirit so that they would remember, understand and be able to record the truths concerning his ministry. “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you” (Jn. 14:26). Similarly, “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you” (Jn.16:12-14). Did the apostles fulfill their commission? Yes, they did. The New Testament is the result. What is more, the early church recognized their role. For when it came time to declare officially what books were to be included in the canon of the New Testament the decisive factor was perceived to be whether or not they were written by the apostles or bore apostolic endorsement. The church did not create the canon which, if it had, would place itself over Scripture. Rather the church submitted to Scripture as a higher authority. —Foundations of the Christian Faith blessings. ken

Hi Ken

Great post.

I appreciate the information you have provided. It seems you have done extensive research and because of that you have a great knowledge of resources.

Thanks again for giving this information.

Blessings,

Keith

[TimothyVI]

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 22 2008,05:18)

Hmm, Good point ……. anything to do with 2 Th 2:11

Hi Meerkat,

I am not sure about 2 Th 2:11.
I never quite understood why, when the evil man came to do the work of Satan with false miracles, and wicked deception to fool those who were already lost, God would send great deception upon them so that they would believe all those lies.

Those poor souls did not have much of a chance with God blinding them did they?

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi tim4,
Whether or not we believe the bible we should not venture into judging God.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,10:03)

Hi tim4, Whether or not we believe the bible we should not venture into judging God.

Hi Nick,

Is having compassion for the people that God Himself denied the truth, judging God?
It must be a heavy burden to be in constant fear that your very thoughts will envoke the wrath of God.

Tim

[Tiffany]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2008,22:30)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,10:03) Hi tim4, Whether or not we believe the bible we should not venture into judging God. Hi Nick, Is having compassion for the people that God Himself denied the truth, judging God? It must be a heavy burden to be in constant fear that your very thoughts will invoke the wrath of God. Tim

Have you ever thought about the Sermon on the Mount. It is not only in what we do also what we think. The Law is spiritual and it is made harder for all. IMO But very important. We have nothing to worry about since we are under His Blood . Lets make sure that we stay there. That means when we sin we have a Mediator so we now can go directly to the Throne of God and ask for forgiveness of our sins, and it is granted us immidiantly. And the Holy Spirit will tell you when you sin, so all can be made like Christ, sparkle clean. Let the mind which in Christ be in you too. That is what our Heavenly Father wants from us. IMO
Why should there be any fear? God is and will have a way out for us in any suituation we get into. We have a mercyful God who will forgive us our sins. He send His Son into the World to save the world not to codemn it!!!!
Peace and Love Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene………Amen to that post. Faith working through (LOVE). Casts out fear.

love to you and yours……………………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Tim……..I don't think having compassion of anyone is Judging GOD at all. If a person has the love of God in them he will fell sorrow for anyone suffering. Or any thing suffering. ” For you are sorrowed unto righteousness”. ” as i live , i have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the LORD”, And again ” For He pities us as a father pities his children.”. Your sorrow Tim is a reflection of your Heart a good reflection.

love to you and yours…………………..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim,
Nonetheless we do not dare judge God.
Job 21:22
Shall any teach God knowledge? seeing he judgeth those that are high.

Job 22:13
And thou sayest, How doth God know? can he judge through the dark cloud?

Psalm 75:7
But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

[TimothyVI]

Hi Nick,

I agree. However you were inferring that I was judgeing God because I felt
compassion for the poor souls that he had judged.

My question still stands to you.
Is having compassion for the people that God Himself denied the truth, judging God?

Tim

[meerkat]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2008,11:54)

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 22 2008,05:18) Hmm, Good point ……. anything to do with 2 Th 2:11 Hi Meerkat, I am not sure about 2 Th 2:11. I never quite understood why, when the evil man came to do the work of Satan with false miracles, and wicked deception to fool those who were already lost, God would send great deception upon them so that they would believe all those lies. Those poor souls did not have much of a chance with God blinding them did they? Tim

Tim

Yes, I have had the same thought – I wonder if its more that those that have had truth revealed to them, and they do not love the truth but prefer falsehood, then they are sent delusion.

It seems to be more about people who do unrighteous lawless things in the name of God and Jesus.

The context of that verse is about the spirit of antichrist that sits in the temple of God (we are the temple of God)

The wicked is lawless

G459
ἄνομος
anomos
an'-om-os
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3551; lawless, that is, (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication a Gentile), or (positively) wicked: – without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.
unrighteousness is moral wrongness

G93
ἀδικία
adikia
ad-ee-kee'-ah
From G94; (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): – iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

Is it similar to Matt 7:21-22

There it is those that are supposedly doing Gods business but are in fact not doing Gods will – what is Gods will? – that we keep his commandments – love God and neighbour.

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim,
You are not accused of anything by anyone here.
But we need to warn each other.

[david]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 21 2008,23:29)

Quote (david @ Dec. 21 2008,17:19) As well, for me, if a true God exists, he'd not only want his message out, but he'd make it available to mankind.  The Bible in whole or part is available almost everywhere.  It's been estimated that there have been between 6 and 7.5 billion Bibles printed. And would He also confound the language of all the earth so that they could not understand it? Tim

The Bible is printed in more than one language Tim. And the good news is being preached in hundreds of countries, in hundreds of languages.
(God confused the languages so that his will was carried out, that of people spreading across the earth.)

[942767]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2008,09:54)

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 22 2008,05:18) Hmm, Good point ……. anything to do with 2 Th 2:11 Hi Meerkat, I am not sure about 2 Th 2:11. I never quite understood why, when the evil man came to do the work of  Satan with false miracles, and wicked deception to fool those who were already lost, God would send great deception upon them so that they would believe all those lies. Those poor souls did not have much of a chance with God blinding them did they? Tim

Hi Tim:

The scriptures tell you why God sent them a delusion that they should believe a lie.

Quote

2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

In this last day God will gather all of humanity into two separate bodies, the body of Christ, to reap eternal life, and body of Anti-Christ to reap judgment according to their own works. God is not willing that any man should perish, but that all should come to Him with a repentant heart through the provision that He has given in the Lord Jesus. It is a choice. (Matthew 25:31:46)

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