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..Ok my friends…I have been doing a lot of soul searching and I have a very serious question for the Heaven.net family…
Alright here goes….(takes deep breath)How do you know that the bible is REALLY God's word?
Now before you answer the question let me clarify…I for one do not doubt that “GOD” exists….I have my reasons for believing…but I would like clarification on why people believe the GOD of the “bible” whose name is “YHWH” and has a son named “Yeshua” is the one true GOD of the universe…
Simply put, Why do you believe in the GOD of the bible?
Why is someone's belief in Allah, Buddha, Vishu, Nature…not right? (aka…false worship)
Oh and for the record I don't believe in this whole “science is the new GOD” stuff…if you are wondering what GOD I believe in
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2008,05:09) Hi DK,
The Spirit has shown me the beauty and harmony within it uniting all things.
Hey Nick,I know this can be a wordy topic to discuss..but can you give me a little more insight into why you hold the belief system that you do…
Hi DK,
I was a conscientious catholic till blest with the Spirit of God 28 years ago after many years of asking and then the book called the bible came alive and I could not put it down fascinated with how it revealed truth and supported itself and brought peace and harmony in things of God.DK…….Good question, I am willing to bet most “believe” because they were taught from childhood that there is a GOD and it depends in which country you were born in as to what that God Is. Very few have said I am not going to believe what others say, but i want my own proof separate from what any one says, I want a true (PERSONAL) relationship in order to truly believe in him, This takes courage to do and most are afraid to test the reality of GOD”S existence and HIS hand directly in their lives. So they turn supposition into what they think is true faith. You can not prove God through the bible text you must personally experience GOD. Gal 3:5…He that minister to you the SPIRIT and (WORKS MIRACLES AMONG YOU), Does He do it by works of Law or by HEARING YOUR Faith.
Jesus said these signs WILL follow them that Believe. They shall lay Hands on the Sick and the sick shall be made well, they shall cast out demons, and raise the dead. If these signs are not there then how can we say we truly believe, God said he changes not, so what he did then can and will be evident in true believers lives now. Its sad to say especially sense nearly everyone Has God's words in their homes that there exists very little true faith, But Jesus said “when the son of man comes will He find (FAITH) on the earth?. I doughty it. It takes courage to test GOD, but if your heart is truly wanting to Know Him you can have a true personal relationship with Him.
Love and peace to you and yours DK…………………………gene
Ok…lemme just put it out there everyone
I am serious questioning the validity and authenticity of the bible. The bible is said to be GOD's word.. correct. Well the more and more I read the bible the more and more I see that the bible and the “GOD” of the bible named “YHWH” are not as in unity with the moral principles that are exspoused in the book as I thought….
Bear with me I am trying not to write an essay here. Ok..lemme give you some examples…
Think about Moses and the 10 commandments. In that account after GOD gave Moses the commandments, Moses proceeded to leave Mt. Sinai and hed back to the people. Upon returning he found that they had created a golden calf and were using it in worship to GOD.
Well, lets look at what GOD tells Moses to do next.
Exodus 32:27-28… 27 Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' ” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.
I mean..wow…Immediately after “GOD” said “thou shalt not kill”..he proceeds to tell Moses and company to strap on the sword and 3000 of their “brothers, friends, and neighbors”.
And yes I understand the idea of “divine judgement” and how its supposedly “perfect”…
But I ask where is the consistency with “GOD”…let site another example…take a look at this scripture…
Leviticus 20:13
” 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.now look at this scripture…
1 Corinthians 6:8-10
8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Ok…what we know as homosexuality is being discussed here…in one instance “GOD” says, “kill them” in the next he says basically, “they are still going to die but I'll do it”.
Aw..if its a sin to “GOD”..what changed from the OT to the NT? Was it GOD? Well we can't say that can we…well then what changed?
And these are just a couple of MANY, MANY examples of inconsistency of the GOD of the bible…
Not to mention GOD in the OT was a murderous, venegeful, GOD..who allowed the RAPE, MURDER, and PILLAGE of millions of innocent civilians and children…
I'm sorry… I am having a hard time believing in this “GOD” and his “Bible”
Now again…I do believe in “GOD”..without a doubt…but I don't believe “GOD” would act like the “GOD” of the bible…
(continued in the next post)
Hi DK,
Fascinating how little we understand.
But trust in Him and His words will put it togther.
The alternative is to fall back into trusting ourselves-useless.
Prov3OK..lemme take it even further..lets talk about why we believe that the bible is GOD's word…
I am going to put it very bluntly…you and I believe(d) that the bible is GOD's word because of the area of the world you (me) were born…
Simply put, we were born into an area of the World where the prevailing and promoted faith is “Christianity”…
Lets make it even simpler…people believe what they are taught…you were taught about Yahweh and Jesus using the lands holy book the bible…so therefore you believe in the GOD that you were taught to believe in…
But if we really think about the world…it could be just as easy for us to have been anything else..lets prove it….
I was born in America..the predominant faith is Christianity..therefore I believe …as..statistics shows would happen…that the bible is GOD's word and therefore I worship the GOD of the Bible..YHWH…
Ok..say I was born in the middle east…well statistics show that…I would problem have been Muslim and believed in Islam…I would believe that the KORAN was ALLAH's word and therefore I would worship the “GOD” of the Koran Allah…
see how easy that was…go out on the web and look up religious statistics..specifically geographical breakdowns of the worlds religions..they will probably show it graphically in a pie chart..like this site does
http://biglizards.net/Graphic….rge.png
Each different colored slice of the pie represents a different religion…and those slices also geograpically correspond to a specific region of the world…
You see where I am going with this…
You believe what you believe based on what you are taught…generally…
Religiously speaking…statistics prove that you just as easily be could be worshipping another “GOD” and be viewing the holy book of the region as his “WORD”..
SO ask again…how do you know that the “GOD” of the “Bible” is THE true GOD?
And do you would have ended believing in “Jesus” and the Bible if you had lived in a place where Another GOD and holy book were Revered?
DK,
I have been where you are and agree that the scriptures that the Jews have preserved are not as clean as they would like to make out.
As I was told once – don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
Jer 8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.
Also 2 Peter 2:1 2Pe 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.I do beleive the 10 commandments are from God and I do believe that there is a LOT of truth in the bible – as Nick says trust God, seek TRUTH and you will find it.
Sorry that last sentence should have read:
And do you beleive you would have ended up believing in “Jesus” and the Bible if you had lived in a place where Another GOD and holy book were Revered?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 11 2008,05:39) DK…….Good question, I am willing to bet most “believe” because they were taught from childhood that there is a GOD and it depends in which country you were born in as to what that God Is. Very few have said I am not going to believe what others say, but i want my own proof separate from what any one says, I want a true (PERSONAL) relationship in order to truly believe in him, This takes courage to do and most are afraid to test the reality of GOD”S existence and HIS hand directly in their lives. So they turn supposition into what they think is true faith. You can not prove God through the bible text you must personally experience GOD. Gal 3:5…He that minister to you the SPIRIT and (WORKS MIRACLES AMONG YOU), Does He do it by works of Law or by HEARING YOUR Faith. Jesus said these signs WILL follow them that Believe. They shall lay Hands on the Sick and the sick shall be made well, they shall cast out demons, and raise the dead. If these signs are not there then how can we say we truly believe, God said he changes not, so what he did then can and will be evident in true believers lives now. Its sad to say especially sense nearly everyone Has God's words in their homes that there exists very little true faith, But Jesus said “when the son of man comes will He find (FAITH) on the earth?. I doughty it. It takes courage to test GOD, but if your heart is truly wanting to Know Him you can have a true personal relationship with Him.
Love and peace to you and yours DK…………………………gene
I was typing when you posted..just letting you know I did not purposely ignore your comments geography and religion…
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 11 2008,06:30) DK, I have been where you are and agree that the scriptures that the Jews have preserved are not as clean as they would like to make out.
As I was told once – don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
Jer 8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.
Also 2 Peter 2:1 2Pe 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.I do beleive the 10 commandments are from God and I do believe that there is a LOT of truth in the bible – as Nick says trust God, seek TRUTH and you will find it.
Is there not truth in any other faith?Quote (dirtyknections @ Dec. 11 2008,06:31) Sorry that last sentence should have read: And do you beleive you would have ended up believing in “Jesus” and the Bible if you had lived in a place where Another GOD and holy book were Revered?
Hi DK,
No.
There is no other Spirit of God.
There is no other book written by the Spirit of God through men.Quote (dirtyknections @ Dec. 11 2008,06:35) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 11 2008,06:30) DK, I have been where you are and agree that the scriptures that the Jews have preserved are not as clean as they would like to make out.
As I was told once – don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
Jer 8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.
Also 2 Peter 2:1 2Pe 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.I do beleive the 10 commandments are from God and I do believe that there is a LOT of truth in the bible – as Nick says trust God, seek TRUTH and you will find it.
Is there not truth in any other faith?
DK,Hmmm…..
I think there is some truth in a lot of the religions but there is also error as well…….. God is not dependant on religion and religion is mans way of trying to get to God……….
Here is a couple of posts that I made on another forum that is what I think at the moment
Quote from what I understand there is only one God. However there are many different beliefs about God and there are many different names for and beliefs of how to approach God. God has revealed that the only authorised way to approach him is through Jesus who is his anointed Messiah (redeemer) God does not belong to Christianity, christians are meant to be God's messengers.
Just as the Jews who were meant to belong to God rebelled and tried to teach their own traditions as coming from God, some of christianity try to make God “their God” and the way to God through Christianity rather than the way to God is through Jesus and christians are meant to be messengers of the gospel of salvation through Jesus the Messiah(redeemer, Christ)
To me it is not about trying to be a christian it is believing that God is reconciling the world to him through his Son, Jesus the Messiah.
Quote Jesus in the Olivet discourse was talking about the soon to come destruction of the temple in 70AD. Those who endured to that end and read the signs correctly were saved from the wrath of God against the Jews. But also Jesus died and was resurrected so that we can be saved from sin and death. All sin, all die, all go to Hades. Jesus was manifested so that there was more to the story ………
Christ the firstfruits
Those that are his at his coming
Then the end where he puts down all enemies under is his feet (meaning obedient to him)A lot of christians stop the order of resurrection at those that are Christs at his coming and don't accept that every knee will bow in subservience. Or maybe believe that they will bow in forced subservience and then will be thrown into a fiery lake aka Hell. But then how is God all in All if there is still a Hell?
It seems that things are taken out of context ….. because being saved is used in the context of the judgement of the Jews and also the same word is used for being saved from sin and death, meaning deliverance from Hades, it is assumed that those 2 situations can be merged into each other.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2008,06:37) Hi DK,
You should not confuse christianity with churchianity.
You are right…but I am not talking about “church” I am talking about “faith”Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 11 2008,06:48) Quote from what I understand there is only one God. However there are many different beliefs about God and there are many different names for and beliefs of how to approach God. God has revealed that the only authorised way to approach him is through Jesus who is his anointed Messiah (redeemer) God does not belong to Christianity, christians are meant to be God's messengers.
Just as the Jews who were meant to belong to God rebelled and tried to teach their own traditions as coming from God, some of christianity try to make God “their God” and the way to God through Christianity rather than the way to God is through Jesus and christians are meant to be messengers of the gospel of salvation through Jesus the Messiah(redeemer, Christ)
To me it is not about trying to be a christian it is believing that God is reconciling the world to him through his Son, Jesus the Messiah.
Quote Jesus in the Olivet discourse was talking about the soon to come destruction of the temple in 70AD. Those who endured to that end and read the signs correctly were saved from the wrath of God against the Jews. But also Jesus died and was resurrected so that we can be saved from sin and death. All sin, all die, all go to Hades. Jesus was manifested so that there was more to the story ………
Christ the firstfruits
Those that are his at his coming
Then the end where he puts down all enemies under is his feet (meaning obedient to him)A lot of christians stop the order of resurrection at those that are Christs at his coming and don't accept that every knee will bow in subservience. Or maybe believe that they will bow in forced subservience and then will be thrown into a fiery lake aka Hell. But then how is God all in All if there is still a Hell?
It seems that things are taken out of context ….. because being saved is used in the context of the judgement of the Jews and also the same word is used for being saved from sin and death, meaning deliverance from Hades, it is assumed that those 2 situations can be merged into each other.
I see what you are saying..but what I am saying is the statistically the only reason you believe that …GOD has revealed JEsus as the way to him …is because of being taught the westernized faith of ChristianityYOu could have just as easily been defending your islamic faith on an Islamic forum right now..if you were born in the middle east…
I wholeheartedly agree though..that man has created religion as a way of trying to “get” to GOD…
I beleive that GOD is bigger than Christianity, Islam, Hinduism..etc…
And that these religions all contain some measure of truth as to who GOD is…but cannot encompass entirely the magnificence of the truths behind the Supreme Being of the Universe…
Let me put this perspective for you..think about this scripture…
Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”have you ever thought about what it means to be the “alpha” of something? Essentially this scripture is saying that GOD has ALWAYS been….ALWAYS…think about that….
GOD has NO beginning….again think about that concept…really try to fathom a being that has always been…forget the idea of “something can't come from nothing” … GOD is saying he has always existed…
GOD is saying that he was not brought from nothing….he just was…and what he was(is) was not created or brought forth…
See my point…
mere humans..although continually trying…can't encompass what or who the “TRUTH” about GOD…REALLY is…we try..but I attempts are limited by constraints of the human mind…therefore they can measure up to unlimitable essence of “GOD”
edit***
mere humans..although continually trying…can't encompass what or who the “TRUTH” about GOD…REALLY is…we try..but our attempts are limited by the constraints of the human mind…therefore they can never measure up to the unlimitable essence of “GOD”
Yes DK,
I agree with you, I was brought up in “christianty” and rejected that when I was 14 /15 but retained a belief in “God” – I have looked at different religions, trying to find “God” and agree that God transcends religions.
For me, against my will, I have been brought back to christianity.
God has spoken through his prophets, however there are also false prophets – so all I can suggest is say you can not go wrong if you seek truth, justice, mercy. He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God Micah 6:8
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