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Hi WJ and TT,
Your trumpeting of petty victories seems futile when your foundations are shown to be vain logic and inference and you still do not know WHO God is.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2010,04:09) t Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2009,18:10) let maked clear God is the Father of all creation i mean everything ever was created.no one will can change that.Christ,the Word was priviledge by being the first of creation ,i mean the first of Gods creation so at that point they were two after God created Christ,Word,Wisdom.this is why God Called him his only begoten Son.
because after this anything created was with,trough,for,by,HIM. get it? that is Jesus.
Lies!Your theory is not supported by scriptures. No where does the Bible say Jesus was created and then he created all things.
**All things** came into being through Him, and “APART FROM HIM nothing came into being that has come into being”. John 1:3 NASB
How clear can John be?
“APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING”.
Jesus did not create himself and nothing came into being without him therefore contextually John 1:1-3 and 18 is proof that Jesus is God!
WJ
Keith,
You speak the truth. The Greek literally reads “Without Him NOT ONE thing came into being that has come into being” (John 1:3). This clearly excludes Him as a created being Himself. Terraricca is a dissenter from truth.Jack
hi TT
you are willful blind ,call me names but John does not say i am a liar ,66 books and you find one verse in it what you twisted to support your sick abomination of idolatry.to make the Father equal to the Son.Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 01 2010,12:49)
hi WJ
I have ask you to explain to me all the scriptures that Jesus said my Father is greater than me ,and were Jesus said I come to do the will of my father ,and were he says I say the words my father told me,and jesus said to his apostles ,I go to the father and will send you……
and many more.
So in other words you have no scripture that says Jesus was created?
You ask me to go over all those scriptures yet you can’t even get past John 1:1-3.
Again you are dealing with scriptures speaking of Jesus in his pre-resurrection status. You are choosing to see Jesus in the flesh. Jesus is no longer in the flesh as we know it.
I have already told you to read the Trinity threads and you will see over and over again those things explained to you. You are either ignoring doing that or you are just too lazy I don’t know, which is it?
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 01 2010,12:49)
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.what it means the word “THROUGH HIM”
Well it doesn’t mean that he was created through himself for “Nothing was made without him that was made or came into being”!But if you are assuming that because it says “through” which is the English word for the Greek “Dia” which can also mean “by”, is some kind of proof that Jesus did not do the creating or that he is not God then scripturally your logic is flawed.
For from him and “through (Dia) him” and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen. Rom 11:36
Here is what I posted to David concerning this…
Look at the context and tell me who Paul is speaking of?
Is it the Father? If it is then you see that “All things are THROUGH HIM. Does that mean that the Father is not the source or the creator because all things are “through him’? Of course not!
If you say that verse is speaking of Jesus then contextually it’s calling Jesus God!
Compare the language with a famous misquoted Arian verse…
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, “THROUGH WHOM ALL THINGS CAME AND THROUGH WHOM WE LIVE. 1 Cor 8:6
Can you see the exact same language here in speaking of Jesus being the one “THROUGH WHOM ALL THINGS CAME AND THROUGH WHOM WE LIVE”!
Don’t you find it amazing how Paul in the same breath makes Jesus equal to God in Rom 11:36?
Paul makes the terms interchangeable. That includes when he says “One God” and “One Lord”. For you would not say that the Father is not the “only Lord” (Jude 1:4) would you? You would not say that the Father is not the “Lord of Lords and King of Kings would you?
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: “FOR HE (JESUS) IS LORD OF LORDS, AND KING OF KINGS:” and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
So why do the anti-trinitarians say the term “One God” can only apply to the Father when “One Lord” or Only Lord” which is applied to Jesus can also apply to the Father? Do you see the hypocrisy and bias of that view?
Now where is that scripture that says Jesus was created?
WJ
WJ
Jn 13:16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
Jn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—
Jn 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
i think you still wont see it
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 01 2010,17:16) WJ Jn 13:16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
Jn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—
Jn 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
i think you still wont see it
tIs that all you have?
I think you still refuse to see that Jesus is not in the flesh anymore.
WJ
WJ………No Jesus was Begotten through a Physical Berth process as Scripture plainly say he was, and was also Begotten by GOD'S Holy Spirit at the Jordan as a SON of GOD, the same way we are begotten of GOD through the SAME SPIRIT of GOD. He is said the be the (FIRSTBORN) FROM AMONG MEN AND THE FIRST RESURRECTED into the family of GOD, He holds the position AS the FIRSTBORN IN THE FAMILY. You and thinker on the other hand hold no family ties to Jesus because you separate him from you exact identity, and display him as a GOD, not a human Man like one of US. You drive a wedge between Jesus and His brothers and Sisters, and will certainly give account for it in time, unless you repent. IMO
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2010,09:23)
tIs that all you have?
I think you still refuse to see that Jesus is not in the flesh anymore.
WJ
wj, by your teachings, he kicked out his god and took over his throne.you teach roman style.
don't you have children to lure in with candy and music, what did you do for the winter solice, gifts and drinks. how many did you snatch up this time, how many did you bring to your god. tis the season eh wj.
WJ
no i still have one who will not fail,
at the end wen judgement will come then we will be separated because you are a idole worshiper and i am not .
so let leave it at that and let Christ be are judge. i am confident that we will both recieve what reward or punishment we deserve.amen
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2010,04:55) Hi WJ and TT,
Your trumpeting of petty victories seems futile when your foundations are shown to be vain logic and inference and you still do not know WHO God is.
That hasn't happened yet Nicky.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2010,07:22) Hi TT,
You rely on speculations but can judge others?
Nick,It says, “Without Him not one thing came into being that has come into being.”
Please show what part of this statement is “speculation.”
thinker
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2010,07:37) hi TT
you are willful blind ,call me names but John does not say i am a liar ,66 books and you find one verse in it what you twisted to support your sick abomination of idolatry.to make the Father equal to the Son.
t,
Of the 66 books you should be able to produce one statement which says that Jesus was created. Is Jesus your “Only Master and Lord” or not (Judevs. 4-5)?Have you noticed that WJ and I rely heavily on scripture while you and Gene turn to accusations? If you hope to convince me then present biblical arguments.
thinker
Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 02 2010,13:16) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2010,09:23)
tIs that all you have?
I think you still refuse to see that Jesus is not in the flesh anymore.
WJ
wj, by your teachings, he kicked out his god and took over his throne.you teach roman style.
don't you have children to lure in with candy and music, what did you do for the winter solice, gifts and drinks. how many did you snatch up this time, how many did you bring to your god. tis the season eh wj.
Hmmmm…. My Bible says that the Father Himself delivered ALL things into His Son's hands (Matt. 11:27) as the reward for His obedience (Philippians 2).
My Bible says that Jesus Christ must be confessed as “Lord” to the “glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2). If Christ became Lord by “kicking” the Father off the throne then why are we told to confess Jesus as “Lord” to the Father's glory?
thinker
WorshippingJesus said:
Quote But if you are assuming that because it says “through” which is the English word for the Greek “Dia” which can also mean “by”, is some kind of proof that Jesus did not do the creating or that he is not God then scripturally your logic is flawed. WJ,
Exactly! The Greek “dia” (through) has reference to direct agency.thinker
Hi TT,
God delivered authority and power to His Son who acted as his agent.
But he never was and never became that God.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2010,09:23) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 01 2010,17:16) WJ Jn 13:16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
Jn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—
Jn 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
i think you still wont see it
tIs that all you have?
I think you still refuse to see that Jesus is not in the flesh anymore.
WJ
WJ,
They are not interested in the WHOLE biography of Jesus. They close the book at the statement “My Father is greater than I.”It's like a history teacher teaching on the biography of Barack Obama. If that teacher doesn't like the fact that Obama became the president of the U.S. he may have his students close the book at that point in his life when he was just an Illinois State Senator. But the teacher's dislike of the fact that Obama became the President of the U.S. and the Commander and Chief of the armed forces changes nothing. That teacher cannot alter history.
So Jesus was exalted to God's right hand and terraricca's dislike of this historical fact won't change anything. And the closing the book at that point in Jesus' life when He was God's servant does not change the fact that Jesus Christ was exalted to God's right hand and in that position He enjoys the title “only Master and Lord” of men (Jude vs. 4-5). Terraricca cannot change or alter history one bit.
thinker
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