The arian dissenters

Participant

DUPLICATE

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

Thinker, what you need to believe regarding belief in Christ, is that he speaks the words of the Father and he is a SERVANT carrying out his Father's Will. YOu need to believe that Christ is the CHRIST the MAN anointed with the Father's Spirit.

Anathema! Jesus WAS servant (past tense). He is now the “only Master and Lord.” He is now the “only King of kings and Lord of lords” and He is to be believed on as such. He reveals the Father to whomsoever He wills:

All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Jesus is not to be believed upon as the servant He WAS but as the Sovereign Lord He IS!

Again I say “Anathema” to your assertion that He is servant at present.

thinker

December 31, 2009 at 8:23 pm#167536

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Dec. 31 2009,13:50)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 30 2009,10:36)

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 29 2009,18:28)

WJ………..TO simplify this JUST SHOW US A SINGLE SCRIPTURE WHERE JESUS EVER SAID HE WAS GOD. My Bible says He was going to His FATHER and OUR FATHER, HIS GOD and OUR GOD, interestingly He seem to forgot to includes his self as a GOD in that Statement, And When Jesus was Praying to HIS GOD and OUR GOD, He said FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. So tell us who you TRINITARIANS can just ignore those as if the do not exist in you own bibles. AMAZING< the degree of disillusionment, that you can't even understand simple straight forward scriptures , but just continue to deny they even exist in your bibles. Truly Amazing

Gene

You didn't as usuall address my points but instead continue with your pre-ressurection claims.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. John 14:7

Do you see it Gene?

He didn't say Thomas should have known God in him or henceforth he knows God in him or he has seen God in him, did he? Now couple this with the Apostles personally calling him God and you have your proof!

Gene is my points in scripture or not! Why do you not answer them?

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

and why is this, because Jesus IS the One True God as the Father is? NO, that is NOT as ALL what the scriptures say.

We see God through Jesus not because Jesus IS God but because he is his HUMAN mediator, he is God's representative, revealing not his OWN truth or his OWN doctrine but his Father's.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men–the testimony given in its proper time.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

John 5:19 What he seeth the Father do

John 8:28 As the Father hath taught me

We see in Jesus the Father because Jesus learns from the Father and he does that which he sees the Father do.

We do not see in Jesus the Father because they are BOTH the one true God.

Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

Jesus is still receiving WISDOM from the One True God, for he was found WORTHY.

Jodi

This is the kind of manmade logic that makes the word of God of none effect!

But Thank you anyway for pointing out that Jesus alone is worthy to receive power and riches and Glory, wisdom and strength…

Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

So now you must concede that Jesus is also the creator of all things and receives worship from every living creature…

“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O LORD, TO **RECEIVE** GLORY AND HONOUR AND POWER: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created“. Rev 4:10, 11

Is the one “**recieving** GLORY AND HONOUR AND POWER” the Father or Jesus?

Jodi the same Greek word for “receive” in Rev 4:10, 11 is the same word for Rev 5:12 which is proof that Jesus receives equal glory, power, worship and praise as the Father. The very same “Honor” is given to Jesus as to the Father.

So either you concede that your point is wrong or you admit that Jesus is also the creator in Rev 4:10, 11.

Either way you are wrong in your assumption.

Your contention that because Jesus reveals the Father God, and that it is proof that he cannot be God is flawed and a straw.

Here is why!

Jesus is the “Image of the invisible God” or he is the “visible image of God”. Col 1:15, Heb 1:3

The assumption that God cannot reveal himself in human form is a lie against the truth and in fact contradicts the testimony of many of Gods chosen in the Hebrew Scriptures like Abraham, Moses, Isaiah and others.

An honest look at those accounts shows that they “Saw God” or God revealed himself in a physical form to them.

The Apostle Johns testimony says that whoever denies that Jesus came in the flesh is antichrist!

God took on human form, Phil 2:6-8 and shed his own blood, Acts 20:28 thereby completing his position as the “Only Savour” of mankind.

Here is a perspective from a Messianic Jew concerning seeing God….

Click here

December 31, 2009 at 8:28 pm#167538

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 01 2010,07:15)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 01 2010,06:24)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 01 2010,06:11)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 01 2010,05:32)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 01 2010,04:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 01 2010,04:44)

Hi TT,
What facile logic.

Wake up.

Refute my logic Nick.

thinker

Hi TT,
You would dare to offer such weak logic as a basis of teaching about the God Who created you and in whose hands your future lies?

Hi TT,
Shall we compare similar quality logic?

The sun gives light.
This match gives light.
Therefore this match is the sun.

Is this what you aspire to?

Paul said:

Paul received gospel truth not by man but by Jesus Christ. You knew I would reply this way. Why did you bother?

thinker

Good Grief,

Jesus was a MAN but he did not speak his OWN words, he spoke the WORDS of his FATHER!!

Are you really trying to assert that Jesus the Christ was NOT a MAN, because Paul said the gospel that was taught to him by Jesus Christ, was not according to man?

Paul received NOT the words of Jesus who was and is a man, but he received the words of the One True God the Father!!

The gospel is NOT according to MAN, it was established before time began by the Father.

Oh geez! She didn't read ALL my commentary. Here it is again:

John 16:12-15 (New King James Version)
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

In His exalted state all truth is His own. Pay attention will you please?

thinker

December 31, 2009 at 8:29 pm#167539

Participant

Hi TT,
The Spirit of God reminds us of the words of Jesus.
Jn16 told us that so why are you confused?

December 31, 2009 at 8:35 pm#167544

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Dec. 31 2009,14:18)

Christ taught for us to have Faith in the Father. Christ taught that he was the Christ, the human anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Jodi

But Jesus had the “Spirit without measure”, do you know what that means?

You guys treat Jesus as if he was like every other man anointed by God before he came or after him.

No other has the Spirit without measure.

God has the Spirit without measure because the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Jesus is the baptiser of the Holy Spirit!

December 31, 2009 at 8:41 pm#167547

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2010,07:35)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Dec. 31 2009,14:18)

Christ taught for us to have Faith in the Father. Christ taught that he was the Christ, the human anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Jodi

But Jesus had the “Spirit without measure”, do you know what that means?

You guys treat Jesus as if he was like every other man anointed by God before he came or after him.

No other has the Spirit without measure.

God has the Spirit without measure because the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Jesus is the baptiser of the Holy Spirit!

Keith,
I pointed out to Jodi that Jesus in His exalted owns all truth equally with the Father. She ignored it.

None of the Arians here will comment on Revelation 5:13 which says that the whole creation worships the Father and the Lamb together. They won't admit that they are dissenters.

thinker

December 31, 2009 at 8:48 pm#167549

Participant

hi WJ

Posted: Jan. 01 2010,07:35

——————————————————————————–
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Dec. 31 2009,14:18)
Christ taught for us to have Faith in the Father. Christ taught that he was the Christ, the human anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Jodi

But Jesus had the “Spirit without measure”, do you know what that means?

You guys treat Jesus as if he was like every other man anointed by God before he came or after him.

No other has the Spirit without measure.

God has the Spirit without measure because the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Jesus is the baptiser of the Holy Spirit!

if he had it without measure he would not have said before he died,ABBA FATHER,,,,what was true is that God his father was with him for the reason that he was doing the will of his Father,just like you would stand beside your son if he does what you tell him to do,
you are confused because you always try to slip in the trinity in your comments.

as for your comments on revelation quotes it is a vision so not the reality but a metaphor of it.

December 31, 2009 at 9:24 pm#167558

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2009,15:48)

hi WJ

Posted: Jan. 01 2010,07:35

Jodi

But Jesus had the “Spirit without measure”, do you know what that means?

You guys treat Jesus as if he was like every other man anointed by God before he came or after him.

No other has the Spirit without measure.

God has the Spirit without measure because the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Jesus is the baptiser of the Holy Spirit!

as for your comments on revelation quotes it is a vision so not the reality but a metaphor of it.

“For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for “He gives the Spirit without measure“. John 3:34 Nasb

I believe the scriptures, how about you?

Jesus said all that the Father had was his. John 3:35, and John 13:3

Jesus has all authority and power and at this time is not yet subjected himself or his kingdom to the Father. Matt 28:19 and 1 Cor 15.

Do you serve a resurrected Jesus or a pre-resurrected Jesus that you see in the bible that had come down from heaven to submit to the Fathers will?

No, Revelation is not just a metaphor and even if it was it still shows the Father and Jesus being worshipped and given the same Honor, Glory and Power!

And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. “And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. Mathew 28:9

And when they saw him, “they worshipped him: but some doubted“. Matt 28:17

Do you worship him and give him the same honor you do the Father, or are you one of those that doubted?

December 31, 2009 at 10:44 pm#167568

Participant

Hi WJ,
Indeed the Spirit of God proceeds from God and to us through Jesus.
We are made on in Christ in God.

There is no trinity.

December 31, 2009 at 11:10 pm#167570

Participant

hi WJ
Jn 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
Jn 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.
Jn 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”

you still find alittle verse here and there and twisted to the trinity .

let maked clear God is the Father of all creation i mean everything ever was created.no one will can change that.Christ,the Word was priviledge by being the first of creation ,i mean the first of Gods creation so at that point they were two after God created Christ,Word,Wisdom.this is why God Called him his only begoten Son.
because after this anything created was with,trough,for,by,HIM. get it? that is Jesus.
now the word,wisdom,only begoten Son came down also the first time it ever happen he became Christ ,Jesus. got it wen he died he was the first who was resurected by God the father,
God the father put him back in the place he had before but with more honor glory because God the father took him and place him on his right side ,got it becauce this is the hights place God the father can give anyone, got it
the Holy Spirit is not a being it is God or from God ;God is spirit got it ?? and God is HOLY no one can claim to be more holy than the father ,got it ?? this means anything coming from the father is the HOLY SPIRIT. got it

NO trinity, got it ???

January 1, 2010 at 4:52 pm#167645

Participant

WorshippingJesus said to terraricca:

Quote

Do you serve a resurrected Jesus or a pre-resurrected Jesus that you see in the bible that had come down from heaven to submit to the Fathers will?

Keith,
They give lip service only to Christ's exaltation. They say that Jesus has been exalted but He is still a servant. There was a time when I worked for a company and I had a position in middle management. My title before my so called promotion was Operations Manager and I worked the field. Then I was “promoted.” But my title and my job description remained the same. My “promotion” was not real for I continued with the same title and just doing more of the same.

People like Jodi Lee give only lip service to Christ's exaltation. They say the words “Jesus is Lord” but His job description remains the same. At God's right hand He is still without the authority to disclose truth on His own as He was in the days of His flesh. But Jesus saw His exaltation quite differently:

“All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

It is clear from this that when the Father exalted Jesus He gave Him absolute sovereignty. The Son may reveal the Father to whomsoever He wills. It is clear from this that a REAL EXALTATION happened for Jesus unlike my “promotion” with the same title doing only more of the same.

ATTN ANTI-TRINITARIANS: JESUS CHRIST WAS REALLY EXALTED!

thinker

January 1, 2010 at 5:08 pm#167647

Participant

Hi TT,
Was he exalted to become equal with his God?

January 1, 2010 at 5:09 pm#167648

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2009,18:10)

Lies!

Your theory is not supported by scriptures. No where does the Bible say Jesus was created and then he created all things.

**All things** came into being through Him, and “APART FROM HIM nothing came into being that has come into being”. John 1:3 NASB

How clear can John be?

“APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING”.

Jesus did not create himself and nothing came into being without him therefore contextually John 1:1-3 and 18 is proof that Jesus is God!

January 1, 2010 at 5:10 pm#167651

Participant

Hi WJ,
You too need to add logic to what is written to see the truth ?

January 1, 2010 at 5:26 pm#167653

Participant

hi WJ
everything i have said is back up by scriptures and you know it to,but you refuse or cannot see it in both cases you have a problem.
and i do not spread lies,
the greatest lie abomination to God are idols and the CROSS is the greatest one of the idols.this by it selfs should open your mind.

January 1, 2010 at 5:31 pm#167654

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Thinker…> your teachings of TRINITY creates another GOD, you should Trimble when you read 2 Ths 2, and where GOD says “YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD BESIDES ME”, and When JESUS SAID IN PRAYER “FOR (THOU) ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. Are you and WJ so deluded in you minds that you cant even understand those simple straight forward scriptures and believe them, ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. IMO

January 1, 2010 at 5:36 pm#167657

Participant

hi TT
i start to believe that you do not look for truth but to create confusion in the mind of weaker seeds,because i have not said that Christ is not the second after God,read it again .

to me you start not to make sense in your responds,

you know TT. i eat, sleep,work,read,study,vacation,talk with others,what ever i do all with the scriptures in my mind.

January 1, 2010 at 5:37 pm#167658

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 01 2010,12:26)

Then give me a scripture that says Jesus was created!

And what part of John 1:3 do you not understand?

January 1, 2010 at 5:49 pm#167662