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Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,09:42) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 04 2010,09:32) 
You can't have it both ways Nick. If Christ is God “functionally,” then He is supreme over YOU. You must accept Him as your Sovereign or retract your statement that He is God “functionally.”
thinker
Thinker, you fail to realise that it was God that made Jesus both Lord and Christ.God appointed him to rule over God's creation. Similarly, the Pharaoah made Joseph to rule over Egypt. Joseph had absolute authority, except that he was subject to the Pharaoah.
All this playing with words cannot bend the truth one iota.
Might as well accept it now, God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
Do I hear an amen?
T8………A MEN Brother. WE honor Jesus to the GLORY of the FATHER. He is the first Perfected Brother of OURS and the FIRST born of (MANY) Brothers.peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,09:42) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 04 2010,09:32) You can't have it both ways Nick. If Christ is God “functionally,” then He is supreme over YOU. You must accept Him as your Sovereign or retract your statement that He is God “functionally.”
thinker
Thinker, you fail to realise that it was God that made Jesus both Lord and Christ.God appointed him to rule over God's creation. Similarly, the Pharaoah made Joseph to rule over Egypt. Joseph had absolute authority, except that he was subject to the Pharaoah.
All this playing with words cannot bend the truth one iota.
Might as well accept it now, God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
Do I hear an amen?
t8,I do not “fail to realize” anything. I have acknowledged it many times here. What YOU fail to realize is that God kept His end of the covenant by exalting Jesus.
There is no inequality between persons in the fulfillment of a covenant. Justice knows no inequality. Jesus fulfilled His end of the covenant and God was bound by agreement and by justice to fulfill His end. Show me the inequality in this.
thinker
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 04 2010,12:45) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,09:42) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 04 2010,09:32) You can't have it both ways Nick. If Christ is God “functionally,” then He is supreme over YOU. You must accept Him as your Sovereign or retract your statement that He is God “functionally.”
thinker
Thinker, you fail to realise that it was God that made Jesus both Lord and Christ.God appointed him to rule over God's creation. Similarly, the Pharaoah made Joseph to rule over Egypt. Joseph had absolute authority, except that he was subject to the Pharaoah.
All this playing with words cannot bend the truth one iota.
Might as well accept it now, God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
Do I hear an amen?
T8………A MEN Brother. WE honor Jesus to the GLORY of the FATHER. He is the first Perfected Brother of OURS and the FIRST born of (MANY) Brothers.peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Gene,See my post to t8 immediately above. You guys need to get a lesson on the nature of covenants. The Father and the Son had an AGREEMENT and the Son fulfilled His end of the agreement. The Father was BOUND by the agreement to exalt Jesus. There is no inequality in that.
When I was 11 years old my father and I made an agreement. I approached him and said that I would wash his car if he would buy me a baseball bat. I washed the car and my father bought me the baseballl bat. He payed me what he OWED me according to the covenant.
My father was not my superior in that situation. He gave me the baseball bat as a man under an obligation to fulfill his end of an agreement.
The Father was UNDER a covenant with His Son. His Son fulfilled His end of the agreement and so His Father was BOUND BY COVENANT to keep His end and exalt Jesus.
There is no inequality in a covenant. Both parties are EQUALLY UNDER each other.
If I don't hear an “amen” then you should learn what covenants are all about!
So t8's explanation that the Father is superior because He exalted Jesus is quite lame. The Father was bound by covenant to exalt Jesus.
The Son did not have to come and die. But He did come and His Father payed Him that which the covenant REQUIRED Him to pay.
Will it ever sink in with you? You need to study the Bible Gene. The Father and the Son both acted out of a COVENANTAL AGREEMENT!
The Son was to die and the Father was to pay up by exalting Him. No inequality in that. None at all!
thinker
TT
YOU DO NOT AND I MEAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE LOVE OF GOD ,FOR HIS SON.BUT I CAN SEE YOU UNDERSTAND THE MECANICS OF THE DEVIL TWIST.
Posted: Feb. 04 2010,21:08
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Quote (Gene @ Feb. 04 2010,12:45)
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,09:42)
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 04 2010,09:32)You can't have it both ways Nick. If Christ is God “functionally,” then He is supreme over YOU. You must accept Him as your Sovereign or retract your statement that He is God “functionally.”
thinker
Thinker, you fail to realise that it was God that made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
God appointed him to rule over God's creation. Similarly, the Pharaoah made Joseph to rule over Egypt. Joseph had absolute authority, except that he was subject to the Pharaoah.
All this playing with words cannot bend the truth one iota.
Might as well accept it now, God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
Do I hear an amen?
T8………A MEN Brother. WE honor Jesus to the GLORY of the FATHER. He is the first Perfected Brother of OURS and the FIRST born of (MANY) Brothers.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Gene,
See my post to t8 immediately above. You guys need to get a lesson on the nature of covenants. The Father and the Son had an AGREEMENT and the Son fulfilled His end of the agreement. The Father was BOUND by the agreement to exalt Jesus. There is no inequality in that.
When I was 11 years old my father and I made an agreement. I approached him and said that I would wash his car if he would buy me a baseball bat. I washed the car and my father bought me the baseballl bat. He payed me what he OWED me according to the covenant.
My father was not my superior in that situation. He gave me the baseball bat as a man under an obligation to fulfill his end of an agreement.
The Father was UNDER a covenant with His Son. His Son fulfilled His end of the agreement and so His Father was BOUND BY COVENANT to keep His end and exalt Jesus.
TT is indeed playing with words – he has no where to go so it is his only outlet.
His back is against the wall so he can only parry arguments – not make valid ones.
He has already admitted that “his God” is a god of deception so what else can we expect from him.
He is ONE STEP AWAY from the ultimate fall so please be careful how you all push him.
Please to not be overzealous to beat him down with his flailling arguments because you will slip up and gain him a foot hold to thrust back at you – Present credible, well researched and contructed arguments that are as water-tight as you can make them:
– short as possible (so as not to stray into frivolous banter);
– sweet with truth;
– Holy Spirited blessed.Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2010,14:01) WJ you want to believe the trinity so be it;
just that the bible does not in is essence teaches trinity, i start to believe that Jn 1;3 as been altered
by trinitarian long ago so that with one verse they can speculate for the trinity.
TYes this is typical of most anti-trinitarians to claim corruption in the text because if they accept the whole council of God found in scriptures then they would believe in the Trinity.
Blessings WJ
terraricca said:
Quote TT
YOU DO NOT AND I MEAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE LOVE OF GOD ,FOR HIS SON.BUT I CAN SEE YOU UNDERSTAND THE MECANICS OF THE DEVIL TWIST.
t,It is you who does not understand the Father's love for His Son. Love knows no inequality. Right!
But there was still a covenant between the Father and His Son. And covenants know no inequality.
So matter how you slice it there is no implied inequality in the Father giving His Son ALL authority. If the Father exalted Jesus out of love then there was no inequality for love does not know inequality. Or if the Father exalted His Son as the just reward for fulfilling His end of the covenant there was no inequality. In covenants each party is mutually under each other to meet the terms of the covenant.
My father did not “give” me the baseball bat as one who was above me. He “gave” it to me because he was under an agreement. I fulfilled my end and my father fulfilled his end. There was no inequality in that exchange.
Paul CLEARLY taught that the Son was exalted for His obedience. Paul was CLEAR that the Son made Himself a servant. Jesus did not have to come to save us if He didn't want to. The Father rewarded Jesus in accordance with the terms of the covenant of redemption and not because He was “above” Jesus.
If you think that there was an implied inequality in that exchange then you need a reality check.
thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 05 2010,02:04) TT is indeed playing with words – he has no where to go so it is his only outlet. His back is against the wall so he can only parry arguments – not make valid ones.
He has already admitted that “his God” is a god of deception so what else can we expect from him.
He is ONE STEP AWAY from the ultimate fall so please be careful how you all push him.
Please to not be overzealous to beat him down with his flailling arguments because you will slip up and gain him a foot hold to thrust back at you – Present credible, well researched and contructed arguments that are as water-tight as you can make them:
– short as possible (so as not to stray into frivolous banter);
– sweet with truth;
– Holy Spirited blessed.
JA,So I am playing with words you say? So you're saying that my father was not under me to pay me the baseball bat after I met the terms of our agreement? Is this your concept of justice?
Was Paul playing with words too? He EXPLICITLY said that Christ was exalted for His obedience unto death.
I'll tell you who plays with words. It's you guys. You say that we must confess Christ to the glory of God the Father and you are right. But when WJ and I call on you to confess Jesus as Lord you say things like, “Well, the word 'lord' just means 'owner' ” or, “There are many 'lords' and Jesus is just one of many.”
Yesterday Nick was playing his word game again. He said that Christ is God “functionally” like King David.
But that's not what Paul said. Paul said that “God has HIGHLY exalted Him and has given Him a name that is ABOVE every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow; and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”
Is the Father glorified by the anti-trinitarian word games? Is the Father glorified in saying that Jesus is a lord like all other men or that He is a king like David?
Look, you guys say that we are to confess Jesus as Lord to the Father's glory. THEN DO IT! Quit talking about it and JUST DO IT! The Father is denied by your silly little word games. He is not glorified at all!
thinker
TT,
Speak of whom you are speaking of. You are twisting again trying to lump us all together in the same net.
Non-Trinitarian does not mean we talk the same talk – direct your accusation towards the one(s) to whom it applies.
Thinker……..So now we play the inequality covenant game, is there no end to the deceptions you Trinitarians use. Show us (ONE) Scripture that say there is no :INEQUALITY IN COVENANTS THAT RELATES TO AUTHORITY, YOUR FATHER DID NOT LOOSE HIS AUTHORITY OVER YOU BECAUSE HE ENTERED INTO A COVENANT WITH YOU. Jesus was never and still is not equal with His GOD, and Our GOD, His FATHER and OUR FATHER. Thinker pure TRINITARIAN GARBAGE.
WJ
your education swells you brain ,you have to much knowledge and can no longer built ,you only can argue about itTT
i start to lower you down from the plate i was looking at you above my head,you soon be on the ground level,
with the answers you give me,it look s like a ten year old kid,
“in love there is no inequality” this is your thinking;
so if i make a deal with my son no matter what it automatically rises is status to mine,and become equal to his father , (me)
so if i make a deal with you of investing 1000 dollars in a 10000 deal you supply 9000 dollars and i am equal to you in all regards and status in our deal, wen we start my son???
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 05 2010,04:27) Thinker……..So now we play the inequality covenant game, is there no end to the deceptions you Trinitarians use. Show us (ONE) Scripture that say there is no :INEQUALITY IN COVENANTS THAT RELATES TO AUTHORITY, YOUR FATHER DID NOT LOOSE HIS AUTHORITY OVER YOU BECAUSE HE ENTERED INTO A COVENANT WITH YOU. Jesus was never and still is not equal with His GOD, and Our GOD, His FATHER and OUR FATHER. Thinker pure TRINITARIAN GARBAGE.
Gene,
You did not pay attention to what I said. I said that my Father was not above me in that exchange. I said that there was no inequality in that exchange.But Christ's Father NEVER was over Him in the way that my father was over me. I was born under my Father's authority. Jesus became a servant under the Father of His own fee choice. Paul is clear about it (Philipppians 2).
As for you….Please stop with the talk about confessing Christ a Lord to the Father's glory INTIL you yourself confess Jesus as Lord. Confessing Jesus as “a lord” won't do.
4For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our ONLY Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude 4
Jesus is our “ONLY master and Lord.” He is not “a lord.” So be quiet until you are ready to truly glorify the Father.
thinker
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 04 2010,12:53) WJ
your education swells you brain ,you have to much knowledge and can no longer built ,you only can argue about it
More attacks on the person!“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me“. Matt 5:11
WJ
Hi TT,
Was he God or equal to God?You cannot have it both ways.
Why not admit you are a polytheist?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2010,13:13) Hi TT,
Was he God or equal to God?You cannot have it both ways.
Why not admit you are a polytheist?
NHAny being “Equal to God” is God!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2010,13:17) Hi WJ,
God in which way?
You clearly exclude them from being one being. A committee?
NHNot at all, it is you that excludes them from being One Being. You believe that the Father is a “Big God” and Jesus is a “little god” or else you wouldn't quote John 10 with your slant when it is convenient!
WJ
WJ………But GOD Said there was (NON) equal to HIM , but you say there are some equal to HIM , so who are we to believe you and thinker or GOD? You need to go back and reread the book of Isiah again, then you may change your mind, and get the TRINITARIAN GARBAGE out of your thinking brother.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2010,05:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2010,13:17) Hi WJ,
God in which way?
You clearly exclude them from being one being. A committee?
NHNot at all, it is you that excludes them from being One Being. You believe that the Father is a “Big God” and Jesus is a “little god” or else you wouldn't quote John 10 with your slant when it is convenient!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Is the vine more alike to the Gardener or the branch??
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