- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 03 2010,19:48) SF…………I was speaking to the fact about Jesus being the (First) and he (Last) what it meant, That he was the first from mankind to make it into the kingdom of GOD and the Last will be Just like him. And i have already proved Jesus created nothing because GOD said He did and He did it (ALONE and BY HIMSELF). That alone should be proof enough. IMO peace and love…………………………..gene
Scripture pleaseSF………..Try Isaiah 44:6……….> Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I am the FIRST and I am the LAST and Beside ME there is (NO) GOD.
Now here GOD said (HE) is the First and the Last right?
Lets look at Rev 1:5 Now………> And From Jesus Christ who is the faithful witness, and the FIRST (BEGOTTEN FROM) THE DEAD, from where, THE DEAD!. and the prince of the kings of the earth, unto him that loved us, and washed is from our sins in his own blood, and has made us kings and priests unto GOD and his Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever Amen.
So what was Jesus (FIRST) BEGOTTEN OF (the dead). He is mone-genes in that sense as it is Now but that will not alway be because his is Just (first of many brothers).
Now lets view … Rev 1:11…..> Saying , I am ALPHA (the beginning) and OMEGA, (the end), the (FIRST) and the (LAST): ………..>
Here is your problem you think that is talking about Jesus, when it is not , it is talking about GOD the FATHER. REMEMBER IT SAY HEAR WHAT THE (SPIRIT) IS SAYING TO THE CHURCHES. GOD is SPIRIT.
Notice also verse 17 FEAR NOT, I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST, I AM HE THAT LIVETH AND WAS DEAD; AND BEHOLD , I AM ALIVE FOREVERMORE, ……> This indicates Jesus is the First from mankind to be raised from the dead and the last will be just like him. This is not saying the first and last of all thing that is GOD the Father position alone. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Jesus obtained to eternal life he did not always have it as a Preexistent being would have. But he simply said I was alive but he was dead, he did not say i was alive and then morphed into a womens body and then lived and then dies again, as Preexistences and Trinitarians would have you believe.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 04 2010,21:47) SF………..Try Isaiah 44:6……….> Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I am the FIRST and I am the LAST and Beside ME there is (NO) GOD. Now here GOD said (HE) is the First and the Last right?
Lets look at Rev 1:5 Now………> And From Jesus Christ who is the faithful witness, and the FIRST (BEGOTTEN FROM) THE DEAD, from where, THE DEAD!. and the prince of the kings of the earth, unto him that loved us, and washed is from our sins in his own blood, and has made us kings and priests unto GOD and his Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever Amen.
So what was Jesus (FIRST) BEGOTTEN OF (the dead). He is mone-genes in that sense as it is Now but that will not alway be because his is Just (first of many brothers).
Now lets view … Rev 1:11…..> Saying , I am ALPHA (the beginning) and OMEGA, (the end), the (FIRST) and the (LAST): ………..>
Here is your problem you think that is talking about Jesus, when it is not , it is talking about GOD the FATHER. REMEMBER IT SAY HEAR WHAT THE (SPIRIT) IS SAYING TO THE CHURCHES. GOD is SPIRIT.
Notice also verse 17 FEAR NOT, I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST, I AM HE THAT LIVETH AND WAS DEAD; AND BEHOLD , I AM ALIVE FOREVERMORE, ……> This indicates Jesus is the First from mankind to be raised from the dead and the last will be just like him. This is not saying the first and last of all thing that is GOD the Father position alone. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Jesus obtained to eternal life he did not always have it as a Preexistent being would have. But he simply said I was alive but he was dead, he did not say i was alive and then morphed into a womens body and then lived and then dies again, as Preexistences and Trinitarians would have you believe.
Gene,
If i could prove that Isaish 44:6 and that Jesus is also the First and the Last, than you would have to revaluate what you believe.What does first begotten have to do with The Alpha and the Omega?
LOL THE SPIRIT? ARE YOU SERIOUS! ITS CHRIST SPEAKING!! look what its saying as a intro to each letter to the church! its the son of Man talking to the Church! the Son of Man that was in between the candle sticks.
You tickle me, really. we also have the spirit of Christ lol.
Quote Notice also verse 17 FEAR NOT, I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST, I AM HE THAT LIVETH AND WAS DEAD; AND BEHOLD , I AM ALIVE FOREVERMORE, ……>
this just contradicted about what yuou said that God is spirit.Quote Jesus obtained to eternal life he did not always have it as a Preexistent being would have. But he simply said I was alive but he was dead, he did not say i was alive and then morphed into a womens body and then lived and then dies again, as Preexistences and Trinitarians would have you believe.
Jesus is the AUTHOR of ETERNAL SALVATION, not the first to have it. That means he is the creator of it genuis.
Prove that he didnt always have it?
Where does it say that Gene show me please?Where did i say that he morphed into a womans body?
When did he DIE AGAIN?Gene seriously if you dont humble yourself and at least take the this under consideration that you might be wrong.
But of course to be wrong here in heaven.net is sucide.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 06 2010,18:10) In my Debate with Mike we have comepelty streched this arguement to the max, the question is Who is the Alpha and Omega mentioned In Revelations?
My stand is that The Alpha and the Omega is claimed to be Lord Jesus according to his words in revelations.
1.Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.2.Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.3.Revelation 21:6
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.4.Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Jesus is the the “first” and the “last” which God created himself; every one else, and everything else, was created by Jesus, (Col. 1:16).Georg
Quote (Baker @ Sep. 07 2010,07:02) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 06 2010,18:10) In my Debate with Mike we have comepelty streched this arguement to the max, the question is Who is the Alpha and Omega mentioned In Revelations?
My stand is that The Alpha and the Omega is claimed to be Lord Jesus according to his words in revelations.
1.Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.2.Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.3.Revelation 21:6
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.4.Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Jesus is the the “first” and the “last” which God created himself; every one else, and everything else, was created by Jesus, (Col. 1:16).Georg
hi georgyou right ,almost all revelation is only talking about Jesus ,what he did ,what he do,and what he still will do in the times to come,
when God is mention it is to say that it is from God authority that Christ operate,until he finish all the works of God.Pierre
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 06 2010,10:21) [ LOL THE SPIRIT? ARE YOU SERIOUS! ITS CHRIST SPEAKING!! look what its saying as a intro to each letter to the church! its the son of Man talking to the Church! the Son of Man that was in between the candle sticks.
To All…………. Hear what the Spirit is SayingRev 2:7 ….> He that has and ear let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches
Rev 2: 17….> He that has and ear let hie hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.
Rev 2:29….> He that has and ear let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.
peace and love to you all………………gene
If God had an age…
The Word of God would be as old as God himself.
The distinction between YHVH God and The Word of God, is that
The Word of God, is god's reflected image.
It's God taking a look at himself and expressing his unknowable attributes in a knowable fashion.
—————
I believe God has always made himself known as soon as there was something else to make himself known to.
—————
If Jesus Christ is The Word of God…
then for him to be The Alpha and Omega does not make him God.
It simply means that he proceeded the beginning and will exceed the end, along with YHVH.
—————-
Remeber, beginning and end are references to time.
God has no beginning nor end.
So for YHVH to BE the beginning and end is a valid statement.
if The Word of God is YHVH reflected unto creation…and that YHVH had to reflect himself to the empty space of non-existence, to cause creation to come forth…
Then The Word of God so too can equally be The Alpha and The Omega.
The statement holds true for both of them.
and frankly it doesn't matter especially when The Word of God is the reflection and image of YHVH himself.
Quote (RokkaMan @ Sep. 09 2010,21:48) If God had an age… The Word of God would be as old as God himself.
The distinction between YHVH God and The Word of God, is that
The Word of God, is god's reflected image.
It's God taking a look at himself and expressing his unknowable attributes in a knowable fashion.
—————
I believe God has always made himself known as soon as there was something else to make himself known to.
—————
If Jesus Christ is The Word of God…
then for him to be The Alpha and Omega does not make him God.
It simply means that he proceeded the beginning and will exceed the end, along with YHVH.
—————-
Remeber, beginning and end are references to time.
God has no beginning nor end.
So for YHVH to BE the beginning and end is a valid statement.
if The Word of God is YHVH reflected unto creation…and that YHVH had to reflect himself to the empty space of non-existence, to cause creation to come forth…
Then The Word of God so too can equally be The Alpha and The Omega.
The statement holds true for both of them.
and frankly it doesn't matter especially when The Word of God is the reflection and image of YHVH himself.
Mt 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Mt 11:26 Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasurePierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,17:58) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 06 2010,10:21) [ LOL THE SPIRIT? ARE YOU SERIOUS! ITS CHRIST SPEAKING!! look what its saying as a intro to each letter to the church! its the son of Man talking to the Church! the Son of Man that was in between the candle sticks.
To All…………. Hear what the Spirit is SayingRev 2:7 ….> He that has and ear let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches
Rev 2: 17….> He that has and ear let hie hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.
Rev 2:29….> He that has and ear let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.
peace and love to you all………………gene
and you know who was speaking,
It was christ Genuis…read the beginning of what is said,
also.please post the beginning of the letter refered to each church.
SF>>>……It was the SPIRIT of GOD Speaking (THROUGH) Jesus, It was (NOT) Jesus Himslef Speaking . Jesus has the seven spirits of GOD in him and it is the Spirit of GOD speaking through Him just as he says “whosoever that has ears to hear let him hear what the (SPIRIT) is saying unto the Churches”.
This may help you understand……….” DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND IN THREE DAYS I (GOD) SHALL RAISE (IT) UP.” That was (NOT) Jesus himslef speaking it was GOD the FATHER (IN) Him Speaking (THROUGH HIM). God considers us temples he an co-habit (IN). “God was (IN) Christ reconciling the world unto himself”
peace and love……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 16 2010,19:55) SF>>>……It was the SPIRIT of GOD Speaking (THROUGH) Jesus, It was (NOT) Jesus Himslef Speaking . Jesus has the seven spirits of GOD in him and it is the Spirit of GOD speaking through Him just as he says “whosoever that has ears to hear let him hear what the (SPIRIT) is saying unto the Churches”. This may help you understand……….” DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND IN THREE DAYS I (GOD) SHALL RAISE (IT) UP.” That was (NOT) Jesus himslef speaking it was GOD the FATHER (IN) Him Speaking (THROUGH HIM). God considers us temples he an co-habit (IN). “God was (IN) Christ reconciling the world unto himself”
peace and love……………………….gene
none of what you said is in scripture,
You cant prove that God the FAther siad what Jesus said.thank you,
To all;
If you use the old testament or more specifically Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12 for reference you can clearly see the a phrase the that he the label is refers to a set of one. Thus Jesus is the only King over heaven and earth and God is the only God over all. Revelations just bears testimony to that fact.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 26 2010,11:47) To all; If you use the old testament or more specifically Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12 for reference you can clearly see the a phrase the that he the label is refers to a set of one. Thus Jesus is the only King over heaven and earth and God is the only God over all. Revelations just bears testimony to that fact.
But thats the point kerwin,
If Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega,
And Jehovah is the First and the last,What does that mean?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 26 2010,11:47) To all; If you use the old testament or more specifically Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12 for reference you can clearly see the a phrase the that he the label is refers to a set of one. Thus Jesus is the only King over heaven and earth and God is the only God over all. Revelations just bears testimony to that fact.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.So is there two that are mentioned here Kerwin?
1) LORD the King of Israel (who is this)
2) His Redeemer the LORD of hosts (who is this)they both take possession that they are the First and the Last and that there is no other God.
Disagree?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 05 2010,18:58) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 26 2010,11:47) To all; If you use the old testament or more specifically Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12 for reference you can clearly see the a phrase the that he the label is refers to a set of one. Thus Jesus is the only King over heaven and earth and God is the only God over all. Revelations just bears testimony to that fact.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.So is there two that are mentioned here Kerwin?
1) LORD the King of Israel (who is this)
2) His Redeemer the LORD of hosts (who is this)they both take possession that they are the First and the Last and that there is no other God.
Disagree?
Hi SF,Maybe you need to take another course in English?
There's ONLY ONE GOD! Here's what Isaiah 44:6 is saying…
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his (Israel's)
redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I the first, and I the last; and beside me no God.1) YHVH; Psalm 29:10, Psalm 10:16!
2) YHVH; Isaiah 47:4, Isaiah 54:5, Jer.50:34!
Take the time to “Click On” and read these three verses.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 05 2010,17:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 05 2010,18:58) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 26 2010,11:47) To all; If you use the old testament or more specifically Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12 for reference you can clearly see the a phrase the that he the label is refers to a set of one. Thus Jesus is the only King over heaven and earth and God is the only God over all. Revelations just bears testimony to that fact.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.So is there two that are mentioned here Kerwin?
1) LORD the King of Israel (who is this)
2) His Redeemer the LORD of hosts (who is this)they both take possession that they are the First and the Last and that there is no other God.
Disagree?
Hi SF,Maybe you need to take another course in English?
There's ONLY ONE GOD! Here's what Isaiah 44:6 is saying…
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his (Israel's)
redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I the first, and I the last; and beside me no God.1) YHVH; Psalm 29:10, Psalm 10:16!
2) YHVH; Isaiah 47:4, Isaiah 54:5, Jer.50:34!
Take the time to “Click On” and read these three verses.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,
What are you talking about?did i say there was Two Gods?
i believe God is Echad and that there is only ONE God.
so what are you talking about?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 06 2010,07:02) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 05 2010,17:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 05 2010,18:58) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 26 2010,11:47) To all; If you use the old testament or more specifically Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12 for reference you can clearly see the a phrase the that he the label is refers to a set of one. Thus Jesus is the only King over heaven and earth and God is the only God over all. Revelations just bears testimony to that fact.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.So is there two that are mentioned here Kerwin?
1) LORD the King of Israel (who is this)
2) His Redeemer the LORD of hosts (who is this)they both take possession that they are the First and the Last and that there is no other God.
Disagree?
Hi SF,Maybe you need to take another course in English?
There's ONLY ONE GOD! Here's what Isaiah 44:6 is saying…
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his (Israel's)
redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I the first, and I the last; and beside me no God.1) YHVH; Psalm 29:10, Psalm 10:16!
2) YHVH; Isaiah 47:4, Isaiah 54:5, Jer.50:34!
Take the time to “Click On” and read these three verses.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,
What are you talking about?did i say there was Two Gods?
i believe God is Echad and that there is only ONE God.
so what are you talking about?
Hi SF,The points you've numbered 1 and 2.
1) (who is this)
2) (who is this)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
