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Wakeup,
For he is cast out of heaven(banned), after the resurrection of Jesus.Rev.12.
I can see where you can get that from the verses I quoted but there is more that seems to contradict that idea.
Jesus testifies he saw Satan fall from heaven before Jesus sacrificed himself for us.
sonofGod,
The heavens in Genesis 1:1 are the place angels dwell as the firmament aka heavens was not created yet. There may have been space but I am not sure of that either as it is not specifically mentioned and could be included in the word firmament.
Journey,
Kerwin, that is speaking of the earth. The spiritual wickedness in high places is HAPPENING ON THE EARTH.
The Koine Greek word means heavens so I assume you mean skies.
Kerwin,
No I said the earth.It is a form of the same word used in other passages of Ephesians such as:
Ephesians 1:20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
20 which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Ephesians 2:6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Kerwin
You have to discern what it’s talking about. For us to sit in heavenly places, means heaven rules. God is the authority. We will be ruling with God. If you know about the millennium, you will know that Christ will be ruling on EARTH with his saints. We wont be sitting in heaven, but busy down here doing God’s work.It sounds like it is speaking of some of the “principalities and powers in heavenly places” that are mentioned in Eph. 3:10.
Kerwin, the real principalities and powers come from heaven. God is in control. He has only let Satan run loose to draw the wicked to himself. This creates a division. The God fearing, and the ungodly.
Satan has “his men” in high places on this earth. Men who currently hold power. Presidents, leaders, politicians, chief of police, judges, media moguls, tv producers, record producers, bankers, Royalty, etcEven the word heavens is somewhat vague and words high places even more so their is room for interpretations though each one has to be judged based on its truthfulness or falseness.
Heaven is heaven. It’s where God’s throne is. It’s another dimension we cannot see because we are not spirit.
The heavens meaning the skies, just means above land and beyond, the universe etc.
This is not part of heaven where God and his angels dwell, because man goes there with his rockets, satelites etc.
You have to know the difference.
Satan was a cherub, and his angels once dwelt in heaven. When God created the earth, they could come and go. Job mentions this.
Satan was accusing Job to God remember? He said Job only loved God because God gave him things.
So the accuser of the brethren was cast out when Jesus was resurrected. God chose this time to cast him out because he DESERVED IT. He killed the Messiah. He is judged already, but God has debased him by not letting him enter heaven. He has come down with wrath now. He is so angry that he cannot go there anymore. He is barred forever.
He cannot accuse the brethren to God anymore in heaven. He cannot pollute anymore angels with his influence. He is here, on this earth. He has lost his estate, his beautiful habitation.Hi J42,
Satan was a cherub?
It it written or are you joining scriptures together to make some sort of possible truth?
Hi J42,
If it is so plain to see as being at the resurrection you will be able to show us scriptural proofs?Nick
I already gave scriptures. You have to read Rev 12.
If you cannot see that Satan was kicked out of heaven… AFTER ….the “child was caught up to God and his throne” (Christ’s resurrection) then I can do nothing more for you, because the information is from this chapter.Journey,
Satan has “his men” in high places on this earth. Men who currently hold power. Presidents, leaders, politicians, chief of police, judges, media moguls, tv producers, record producers, bankers, Royalty, etc
I can see where you might say they are figuratively sitting in airy/celestial/heavenly places but isn’t warring against such men warring against flesh and blood?
Journey,
For us to sit in heavenly places, means heaven rules.
Close enough but if you consider that Jesus asked for believer to be in him and our Father then it seems more like the passage is speaking of the unity of the Spirit.
j42
This happened on the day of Christ’s resurrection
i don’t think so but yes after he ascent to heaven ;Mt 26:64 “Yes, it is as you say,”Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”
MK 9:1 And Jesus was saying to them, “ Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
LK 9:27 “But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”this i believe is the persecution that came to the Christians in Rome before the time 70 AD (also including Steven)
Journey,
Satan has “his men” in high places on this earth. Men who currently hold power. Presidents, leaders, politicians, chief of police, judges, media moguls, tv producers, record producers, bankers, Royalty, etc
I can see where you might say they are figuratively sitting in airy/celestial/heavenly places but isn’t warring against such men warring against flesh and blood?
Kerwin
The scripture says these are sitting in “High Places” not heavenly places. They are holding high positions. This is the scripture I am speaking of.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Journey,
The AV of the KJV says high places but since it translated it from a word that literally means sky or space and figuratively means the realm of angels it is a synonym of heavenly in that case.
The point I was more concerned about is that you seem to believe our battle is against flesh and blood.
Kerwin.
Those top leaders are flesh and blood indeed. But their works performed on the people are bad works.
Laws, rules, oppressions, bringing in laws that are against the laws of God.
Sample; same sex marriage; gay marriage etc.
They also create temptations through the media and Hollywood. Not good for the young also.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
Matthew 23:1-3Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: 3 all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Matthew 16:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Beware of any false teaching and those that command you to do evil but show respect to the authorities put over us so we are supposed to fight against them just like we are to fight against temptation of any sort. I believe that interpretation is functionally correct as long as you do not confuse it with fighting against flesh and blood.
Kerwin.
We as Christians are to obey the rules, as long as it does not contradict God’s rules.
What Jesus is saying is this; Obey the rules of Moses carried by the scribes and Pharisees.
But do not follow their works, Because they speak but don’t do.
Just like many today; they don’t do what they preach.
wakeup.
Doesn’t the bible say somewhere that there is no more consciousness in the grave? Apparently the author of that never had a NDE or maybe all these who testify of such things never actually made it to the grave?
Paul knew someone who was caught up into the Third Heaven or at least he had a vision of it.
Then we have this:
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
As we can see, while they rest, they have white robes and can communicate.
Paul knew someone caught to the third heaven-himself maybe,but he or they were not dead. And the verse from revelation can be taken as anyone wishes.Are these souls in purgatory maybe? Roman Catholics like that verse too. But when “Soloman” or the psalmists say there is no consciousness after death were they mistaken or just stuck in their un-evolved way of thinking?
I view it this way.
In death we are either with the Lord or without. Both are conscious till the Great Judgement. It is not till the Second Death is enacted that one is destroyed and perishes completely. Thus death is as the Psalmist said, but when death has run its full course in the sinner. The Second Death is the final death.
In case you have some questions on the Second Death, I point you to this page which has the answers I would give you.
Dr Eben Alexander’s is a world-renowned and Harvard-trained neurosurgeon, this former non-believer now believes in God and Heaven.
Eben spent seven days in a coma from meningitis. He woke up and recounted a tale that science disregards as fantasy or hallucinations. Like millions before him, Ethen experienced what is termed a ‘near death experience’ where a patient becomes brain-dead yet remains conscious and sees things not only in the physical but also the spiritual realm. His account of the afterlife is filled with imagery and contact with a God who loves us beyond what we can imagine. Interestingly, Eben Alexander was an Atheist and world-class neurosurgeon who believed such encounters could not be real. Not only has he changed his mind, but he now defends the existence of an afterlife with the same kind of skeptic that he once was. Enjoy!
Proof of Heaven by Eben Alexander
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