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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,07:20) If God is all powerfull and sits in a Throne ruling the Universe then I identify him as God or the Father. If Jesus is called God and has all power and rules the Universe from Gods Throne then I identify him as God or the Son.
If we sit with the so-called God -the son, then follow your logic through and call us God – the sons. Especially when you add that this so called God – the son calls us brothers.You can tell when a doctrine or theory is wrong because when it is applied fairly, it doesn't add up or is not consistent.
Your doctrine fails this test.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2011,07:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,07:20) They are just sticking there head in the sand with all these smokescreens about nature and identity.
Wrong.The distinction is very important.
Just as there is a distinction between Adam (the first man) and adam (all who share his nature).
It is the lack of this distinction that gets you guys into all sorts of doctrinal problems and confusion.
We do not wish to participate in your confusion.
But sameness of nature is the PRIMARY sense of the concept of identity.Identity 1. sameness of essential nature (Webster's)
The first definition is the PRIMARY sense.
So God created the adam in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created THEM.
You cannot separate identity from nature. You can only create individuality within that identity of nature.
You have not refuted us.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,07:32) Keith, Yes they are running away from the truth of God. Jesus said,
“I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?”
It is US that agrees that there is one God the Father, and it is you that agrees that there is one God the Father, the Son, the Spirit.Your doctrine is earthly and not heavenly. We know this because your doctrine is not taught in scripture and by any biblical writer. Your doctrine is the fruit of the worldly leader Constantine and Athanasius of Alexandra.
t8 says
Quote the son calls us brothers.
Christ calls us brothers by adoption and not by the identity of nature.Back to the drawing board for t8.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,07:38) But sameness of nature is the PRIMARY sense of the concept of identity.
You are very confused.Lets look at 2 dogs.
One I will identify as snoopy and the other bandito.
Your theory suggests that they are the same dog, whereas what I am saying is that they are both dog in nature but are identified as 2 dogs.
You are very confused KJ, I know that most kids have grasped this very early in life. Yet here you are as an adult falling into all kinds of foolishness just to defend your pride in your own understanding.
It is written that God will make foolish the self-wise or worldly wise.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,07:42) Christ calls us brothers by adoption and not by the identity of nature.
Sorry but you I hand the drawing board to you.Jesus calls us brothers.
It is written that our bodies we will be LIKE him. Guess what LIKE kind means?
And we are promised that we can partake in divine nature.You guys have big problems with scripture. The problems you have are not with US as we believe correctly that there is one God the Father.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2011,07:40) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,07:32) Keith, Yes they are running away from the truth of God. Jesus said,
“I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?”
It is US that agrees that there is one God the Father, and it is you that agrees that there is one God the Father, the Son, the Spirit.Your doctrine is earthly and not heavenly. We know this because your doctrine is not taught in scripture and by any biblical writer. Your doctrine is the fruit of the worldly leader Constantine and Athanasius of Alexandra.
Yet you have REPEATEDLY said that Christ is God qualitatively.Quality 1. peculiar and essential character: NATURE (Webster's)
You infer that Jesus is in His nature God.
“Who is the EXACT representation of His substance.”
KJ
In the transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ in glorified form.
No it wasn't a Trinity, but this demonstrated that indeed what Christ was to become and became is what we will become.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2011,07:46) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,07:42) Christ calls us brothers by adoption and not by the identity of nature.
Sorry but you I hand the drawing board to you.Jesus calls us brothers.
It is written that our bodies we will be LIKE him. Guess what LIKE kind means?
And we are promised that we can partake in divine nature.You guys have big problems with scripture. The problems you have are not with US as we believe correctly that there is one God the Father.
What Bible are you reading? The scripture which says that Christ is our brother says that we are adopted as sons (Rom. 8).We are adopted. Christ is not adopted.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,07:48) Yet you have REPEATEDLY said that Christ is God qualitatively. Quality 1. peculiar and essential character: NATURE (Webster's)
You infer that Jesus is in His nature God.
“Who is the EXACT representation of His substance.”
KJ
KJ, you are obviously hard of hearing or understanding.My suggestion to you is to talk about things that you are able to understand and to not go out to deep if you can't swim.
Every man should know his limitations.
It is written that he existed with divine nature/God's form.
Yet scripture IDENTIFIES God and Jesus as 2 different identities persons.
Read for yourself if you don't believe me.
t8 said;
Quote It is written that he existed with divine nature/God's form. Yet scripture IDENTIFIES God and Jesus as 2 different identities persons.
t8,Your metaphysics are unscriptural and goes against all the philosophers. Identity = nature and within that identity or nature there may be individual persons. I have given many lexographers and even Aristotle a while back.
All you give is your own perceptions of things. Are you an expert by your own authority? Cough up some scripture and some philosophers that support you.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 09 2011,14:51) What Bible are you reading? The scripture which says that Christ is our brother says that we are adopted as sons (Rom. 8).
And you don't find it even the least bit interesting that we are to be BROTHERS to Jesus, yet SONS to God?Fascinating.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,07:38) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2011,07:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,07:20) They are just sticking there head in the sand with all these smokescreens about nature and identity.
Wrong.The distinction is very important.
Just as there is a distinction between Adam (the first man) and adam (all who share his nature).
It is the lack of this distinction that gets you guys into all sorts of doctrinal problems and confusion.
We do not wish to participate in your confusion.
But sameness of nature is the PRIMARY sense of the concept of identity.Identity 1. sameness of essential nature (Webster's)
The first definition is the PRIMARY sense.
So God created the adam in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created THEM.
You cannot separate identity from nature. You can only create individuality within that identity of nature.
You have not refuted us.
KJ
Hi Jack,Are you trying to tell us Adam is God?
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,23:49) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,07:38) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2011,07:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,07:20) They are just sticking there head in the sand with all these smokescreens about nature and identity.
Wrong.The distinction is very important.
Just as there is a distinction between Adam (the first man) and adam (all who share his nature).
It is the lack of this distinction that gets you guys into all sorts of doctrinal problems and confusion.
We do not wish to participate in your confusion.
But sameness of nature is the PRIMARY sense of the concept of identity.Identity 1. sameness of essential nature (Webster's)
The first definition is the PRIMARY sense.
So God created the adam in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created THEM.
You cannot separate identity from nature. You can only create individuality within that identity of nature.
You have not refuted us.
KJ
Hi Jack,Are you trying to tell us Adam is God?
You know what I am saying Ed. You guys can't refute the logic or the lexographers or the philospohers. So you just mock. People who visit here just to read and will see right through it.“If I have told you of earthly things and you do not believe; how will you believe if I tell you of heavenly things”?
KJ
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,15:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,07:20) If God is all powerful and sits in a Throne ruling the Universe then I identify him as God or the Father. If Jesus is called God and has all power and rules the Universe from Gods Throne then I identify him as God or the Son.
If we sit with the so-called God -the son, then follow your logic through and call us God – the sons. Especially when you add that this so called God – the son calls us brothers.You can tell when a doctrine or theory is wrong because when it is applied fairly, it doesn't add up or is not consistent.
Your doctrine fails this test.
Fair?Ha Ha! How do you even make the comparison? Your doctrine fails to prove that Jesus isn't “God” and “Almigthy”.
Your doctrine fails to show us “what” Jesus is.
Your doctrine fails the test because the Bible is not a Polytheistic book where the Hebrews believed in many gods.
No we can't say that we are God like Jesus because unlike Christ we do not sit in Gods Throne and we are not equal to Jesus or the Father in nature and all things were not made for us and by us.
Are those who rule with Christ “Only Begotten Sons”?
Do those who sit in Christ throne have all authority and power or does their power come from Jesus who has it all?
Do those who reign with Jesus have seven eyes which are the 7 Spirits of God?
Why is that so hard for you to understand t8? All things are in Jesus hands.
You and Mike cannot tell us in what way in his nature Jesus is not like the Father?
So once again, Jesus alone shares the Throne of God and to a Hebrew that would mean he is God but to you that means he is a mere man or a demi-god or half-breed or a freak of nature and not a True literal Son that sits in the Throne of God sharing Gods Glory for he is the “radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.”
We are being made into the image of Jesus or God.
Will we be made after the image of a mere man or a demi-god or a freak of nature?
No we are being made into the image of God and Jesus is that God with whom we are sharing his image.
Jesus doesn't share Gods image for he is the image that we are being made into. Let us make man in “our” image.
I thought you would have known these things by now t8?
WJ
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,15:24) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 24 2011,06:33) t8, Yes I am the same being as the person who calls me son (my father). I possess the same qualities and constitution (Webster's). I have the same essential nature and substance (F & W).
KJ
Please let us know what your father's name is so we can call you by that.
t8God is not a name is it t8? But even if I had my Fathers name you would know that my Father and I are human wouldn't you?
Why, because I am human and humans beget humans.
But what if you called my Fathers name and he started barking, would you assume it is my Father even though you “identified” it as a dog?
Qualitatively my Father and I are human.
Jesus is the Fathers “Only Begotten Son” and the Father is God therefore Jesus is qualitatively God, “and the Word was God.”
You do understand this simple logic or will you continue on with your false doctrine that teaches that Jesus is something less than the Father qualitatively?
But I will wait for more of your and Mikes spin.
WJ
. WJ said to T8:
Quote I am human and humans beget humans.
Hi WJ,Was Jesus' mother “Mary” a human?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,15:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,07:20) They are just sticking there head in the sand with all these smokescreens about nature and identity.
Wrong.The distinction is very important.
Just as there is a distinction between Adam (the first man) and adam (all who share his nature).
It is the lack of this distinction that gets you guys into all sorts of doctrinal problems and confusion.
We do not wish to participate in your confusion.
t8OK lets test your theory again.
Does a name identify a class of being?
In what way is “Adam” different in nature than “adam”?
You see t8 your model doesn't work because you cannot seperate “identity” from “nature”.
Please give us an example in the Universe where you can “identify” something with a title or name without “identifying” the “nature” of the thing.
If I say “star” does that mean a “star” in the sky or does it mean a “human”? How do you know unless you know the nature of the thing being referred to?
Come on guys, you can do better than this.
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,11:08) . WJ said to T8: Quote I am human and humans beget humans.
Hi WJ,Was Jesus' mother “Mary” a human?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdYes Jesus is a man according to the flesh.
Whats your point?
WJ
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,15:46) It is written that our bodies we will be LIKE him. Guess what LIKE kind means?
OK t8So you have established Jesus as a man, now follow through with your logic. You said…“Guess what LIKE kind means”
So lets see how that works with Jesus.
Since he is the “Only Begotten Son” that means he “ONLY” is the God kind.
He is the “Monogenes” Son of God….
Strong's G3439 – monogenēs
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
Are we “Monogenes” Sons t8?
Jesus is the “Only Begotten (Monogenes) Son.
Therefore Jesus kind is God for he is God. (refer back to John 1:1)
Remember t8 we are adopted sons. Jesus is not. Why do you deny this scriptural truth?
WJ
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