Proclaimer vs WJs debate: …God or Son of God

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,07:36)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 21 2011,05:14) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2011,19:50) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 21 2011,18:45) Son of God = God Hi Jack,               Sons of God  =  God? …Mmmm?? Rom,8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.             Children of God  =  God? …Mmmm?? Rom.8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: We are sons by adoption sir! You conveniently left that part of Paul's statement out of your equation. Christ is God's only begotten Son. Begotten = kind = God KJ Jack Dogs begets Dog. Ducks begets Duck. Humans begets Human. God begets God. Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

With regard to a male “Horse” and a female “Donkey”,
is the “Horses” offspring a “Horse”?

Jesus' Father was “God” and his mother was “Human”,
DO YOU SEE A CONNECTION HERE?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,08:03)

ED “Please tell us “what kind of creature is Jesus” if he is the literal and Only Begotten Son of God? “Do you know what and who he is?“ WJ

Hi Mike,

Why Yes I certainly do.
He was born as a “Half Breed”;
but he would look no different from us,
because we were all created in YHVH's image!
That's why He is our go-between, There's only ONE God!

1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Hope this helps you to understand better!

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Kangaroo Jack Jr.]

Ed J said:

Quote

Sorry about leaving out the “adoption” part; is was unintentional!

Ed,

WJ and I have pointed this out before. One must believe that Jesus is God's “Monogenes” in order to be saved. To deny that Jesus is God is to deny that Jesus is God's Monogenes.

Jack

[Ed J]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 22 2011,10:17)

Ed J said: Quote Sorry about leaving out the “adoption” part; is was unintentional! Ed, WJ and I have pointed this out before. One must believe that Jesus is God's “Monogenes” in order to be saved. To deny that Jesus is God is to deny that Jesus is God's Monogenes. Jack

Hi Jack,

         Do you discount 1Tm.2:5?

1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Hi All,

Let's get to the very simple bottom of this.  First of all, Ed addressed me instead of WJ a couple of posts back.    (Probably because we were pm'ing at the time.)

Keith and Jack, let's address your claims:

Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Like begets like

Let's put these to the test and iron this out.

1.  Son of man = man:  Man is a being made of flesh and blood that inhabits the earth.  Obviously, since like DOES beget like, a son of man, as in MANKIND, will also be A man.

In Hebrew terminology, a son of adam will undoubtedly be AN adam.  But the son of the PERSON Adam, will NEVER, EVER be the PERSON Adam.

The son of Doug, a human, will be a human, but will not be the same human that beget him.  Therefore the son of Doug will NOT be Doug.

2.  Son of God = God:  Is God, like humans, a SPECIES?  If so, then this SPECIES consists of beings who are spirit in nature, and exist in the heavens.  And using the exact same formula as I did with “man” above, since like DOES beget like, it is clear that the son of a spirit being will also be a spirit being.  Jesus is equally a spirit being as his Father who begot him……………just like a man is equally a flesh and blood being as the father who begot him.

But just like the BEING of Adam can not beget the BEING of Adam, the BEING of God cannot beget the BEING of God.  

When Jesus is called the Son of Man, it refers to a being who was in the same spirit form as his God, then emptied himself to become a human being to accomplish the purpose his God sent him to accomplish.  So “Son of Man” simply refers to Jesus being a human being.

On the flipside, even if Jesus was ONLY called the Son of God, you would have to choose if “God” in that context meant the BEING of God Himself, or some kind of SPECIES of Godkind.  If you choose it as a species, then many attributes of his Father would have been passed down to him.  He would be powerful, LIKE his Father.  He would be intelligent, LIKE his Father.  He would be a spirit being, LIKE his Father.  But he would never actually BE his Father, or the same BEING as his Father.

But I'll take it one step farther and end this charade once and for all:

Matthew 16:16-17
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”  17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

This makes it cut and dry that Jesus is not only the son of some “species” of “Godkind”, but he is the Son of THE  THE   THE  Living God Himself.

Keith and Jack cannot deny that we all have but ONE Living God.  They agree that our ONE Living God is ONE Being.  So guys, despite what you think about all the other mentions of “Son of God”, there is no denying that Matthew 16:16 makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that Jesus is the Son of the ONE BEING who is THE Living God.

Being the son of Adam made Cain equally mankind, but Cain could not possibly be the BEING of Adam, because he was the son OF that one.

Likewise, being the son of God makes Jesus equally a spirit being, but Jesus cannot possibly be the BEING of God, because he is the Son OF that One.

Keith and Jack, please show me where I have spoken unscripturally or illogically.

mike

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2011,17:14)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,08:03) ED “Please tell us “what kind of creature is Jesus” if he is the literal and Only Begotten Son of God? “Do you know what and who he is?“ WJ Hi Mike, Why Yes I certainly do. He was born as a “Half Breed”; but he would look no different from us, because we were all created in YHVH's image! That's why He is our go-between, There's only ONE God! 1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Hope this helps you to understand better! Your brother in Christ, Jesus! Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

why half breed ?

Philippians 2:6-8 NIV
6Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself

scriptures are so clear open your eyes

Pierre
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

[Baker]

Boy, Boys Even though there are two Scriptures that states Jesus being God, He is not the Almighty God or Jehovah God.  God, and The Word of God are titles.  In our Rye Study Bible footnotes say that the translators were scared to use Gods name in vain, and used LORD in the OT and Lord in NT.  instead.  
Ed and Mike has given you Jack and Keith good Scriptures, so I wont bore yiu with that.  There is no trinity. When you take all the Scriptures against the trinity, you come up with one, yet much more against it.  The trinity is not a doctrine of God but of a man….If the Christians in the third century were tired of worship underground, the trinity would never been practiced this long….Constantine did a lot of things, that were not according to Scriptures.  He even changed our Calendar….Roman not Gods  Most don't even realize that.  In our Rye Study Bible we have Gods months listed.  The year also does not start in the cold of winter, but Spring….One day you will al see my friends.  I know you won't  believe us now.  But the time is short, Satan is very busy to confuse all….yes, i know you think we are.  The word trinity is not in the Bible, and there are enough Scriptures to prove it wrong….not my words but Gods…
1Cr 8:5   For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)  

1Cr 8:6   But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.  

1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;  

1Cr 11:3   But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.  
Eph 4:4   [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;  

Eph 4:5   One Lord, one faith, one baptism,  

Eph 4:6   One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.  

Jhn 14:28   Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.  

And Jack I know what you said about the Scripture in John, but Jesus said:” I go to my Father…”not only when Jesus was o earth….like you think….

Peace and love Irene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 21 2011,19:31)

There is no trinity. When you take all the Scriptures against the trinity, you come up with one, yet much more against it.

Hi Irene,

I've just started working on something I think will be big and blow a lot of people away.

It might take me a year to finish it, but I've started.

I'm going to take the trinity doctrine apart piece by piece, scripture by scripture, and logic by logic.

peace and love,
mike

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2011,12:00)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2011,17:14) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,08:03) ED “Please tell us “what kind of creature is Jesus” if he is the literal and Only Begotten Son of God? “Do you know what and who he is?“ WJ Hi Mike, Why Yes I certainly do. He was born as a “Half Breed”; but he would look no different from us, because we were all created in YHVH's image! That's why He is our go-between, There's only ONE God! 1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Hope this helps you to understand better! Your brother in Christ, Jesus! Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj why half breed ? Philippians 2:6-8 NIV 6Who, being in the form of God,     did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing,     taking the form of a servant,     being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man,     he humbled himself scriptures are so clear open your eyes Pierre     and became obedient to death—        even death on a cross!

Hi Pierre,

See last the Post on the previous page.

eD j
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Kangaroo Jack Jr.]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2011,10:24)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 22 2011,10:17) Ed J said: Quote Sorry about leaving out the “adoption” part; is was unintentional! Ed, WJ and I have pointed this out before. One must believe that Jesus is God's “Monogenes” in order to be saved. To deny that Jesus is God is to deny that Jesus is God's Monogenes. Jack Hi Jack,          Do you discount 1Tm.2:5? 1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

So where in 1 Timothy 2:5 do you see a denial that Jesus is God? I see only an affirmative of His humanity. Did you take a course in Logic in College Ed?

You anti-Jesus people have never produced a negative which says, “Christ is NOT God.” Yet WJ and I have produced many affirmatives such as, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.”

Jack

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2011,19:55)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2011,12:00) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2011,17:14) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,08:03) ED “Please tell us “what kind of creature is Jesus” if he is the literal and Only Begotten Son of God? “Do you know what and who he is?“ WJ Hi Mike, Why Yes I certainly do. He was born as a “Half Breed”; but he would look no different from us, because we were all created in YHVH's image! That's why He is our go-between, There's only ONE God! 1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Hope this helps you to understand better! Your brother in Christ, Jesus! Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj why half breed ? Philippians 2:6-8 NIV 6Who, being in the form of God,     did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing,     taking the form of a servant,     being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man,     he humbled himself scriptures are so clear open your eyes Pierre     and became obedient to death—        even death on a cross! Hi Pierre, See last the Post on the previous page. eD j http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2011,18:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,07:36) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 21 2011,05:14) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2011,19:50) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 21 2011,18:45) Son of God = God Hi Jack,               Sons of God  =  God? …Mmmm?? Rom,8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.             Children of God  =  God? …Mmmm?? Rom.8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: We are sons by adoption sir! You conveniently left that part of Paul's statement out of your equation. Christ is God's only begotten Son. Begotten = kind = God KJ Jack Dogs begets Dog. Ducks begets Duck. Humans begets Human. God begets God. Blessings WJ Hi WJ, With regard to a male “Horse” and a female “Donkey”, is the “Horses” offspring a “Horse”? Jesus' Father was “God” and his mother was “Human”, DO YOU SEE A CONNECTION HERE?

ED

No I don't see the connection of a horse and donkey with the Father and the Son.

If Jesus is a half breed and not fully man then he could not save us.

If Jesus is half god and half man, or a Demi-god, then he could not save us.

Jesus has to be both fully human after the flesh and fully God after the Spirit to save us!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2011,18:14)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,08:03) ED “Please tell us “what kind of creature is Jesus” if he is the literal and Only Begotten Son of God? “Do you know what and who he is?“ WJ Hi Mike, Why Yes I certainly do. He was born as a “Half Breed”; but he would look no different from us, because we were all created in YHVH's image! That's why He is our go-between, There's only ONE God! 1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Hope this helps you to understand better!

Ed

If he is a half breed then he is neither God or man, right?  

The scripture you just quoted says he is a man.

WJ

[Kangaroo Jack Jr.]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2011,01:56)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2011,18:14) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,08:03) ED “Please tell us “what kind of creature is Jesus” if he is the literal and Only Begotten Son of God? “Do you know what and who he is?“ WJ Hi Mike, Why Yes I certainly do. He was born as a “Half Breed”; but he would look no different from us, because we were all created in YHVH's image! That's why He is our go-between, There's only ONE God! 1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Hope this helps you to understand better! Ed If he is a half breed then he is neither God or man, right?   The scripture you just quoted says he is a man. WJ

Keith,

This “half breed” talk is the kind of nonsense that is the result of messing with the scriptures. First there is Kathi and Mike with their Greek mythology view that God begat Jesus as a human father begets a son. Now we have Ed J's total freak half breed Jesus.

You and I are partially to blame because we push them to make such nonsensical statements.

Oh, and don't forget t8's view that satan can do anything he wants while Jesus can't.

Jack

[Kangaroo Jack Jr.]

WJ said:

Quote

Ed If he is a half breed then he is neither God or man, right?   The scripture you just quoted says he is a man. WJ

IRREFUTABLE LOGIC!

[Kangaroo Jack Jr.]

WJ said:

Quote

No I don't see the connection of a horse and donkey with the Father and the Son.

[Baker]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2011,12:43)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 21 2011,19:31) There is no trinity. When you take all the Scriptures against the trinity, you come up with one, yet much more against it. Hi Irene, I've just started working on something I think will be big and blow a lot of people away. It might take me a year to finish it, but I've started.   I'm going to take the trinity doctrine apart piece by piece, scripture by scripture, and logic by logic. peace and love, mike

good for you Mike, and good luck with it. Will be praying for the truth to come out.
Peace and love Irene

[Kangaroo Jack Jr.]

Mike said:

Quote

I'm going to take the trinity doctrine apart piece by piece, scripture by scripture, and logic by logic.

Anti-trinitarians much more intelligent than Mike have tried to take the trinity doctrine apart and Christianity is still here and people are still coming to Christ as their Savior by the millions.

All Mike will accomplish is to maake us better apologists while Mike he descends more into his Greek mythology view of God and Ed propagates that Jesus is a half breed and t8 says that satan can ddo whatever he wants and Jesus can't.

Furthermore, Mike just admitted that Christ is called God in scripture.

Mike said:

Quote

To Jack and Keith, see my thread on Titus 2:13.  We've discussed it many times.  Even if you INSIST it MUST be calling Jesus “theos”, so what?  He is CLEARLY called “theos” in 1:1, 1:18, and 20:28.

Thank you Mike! You said that “Jesus is CLEARLY called God” and you're going to destroy the trinity doctrine?

KJ

[Ed J]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 22 2011,19:17)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2011,10:24) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 22 2011,10:17) Ed J said: Quote Sorry about leaving out the “adoption” part; is was unintentional! Ed, WJ and I have pointed this out before. One must believe that Jesus is God's “Monogenes” in order to be saved. To deny that Jesus is God is to deny that Jesus is God's Monogenes. Jack Hi Jack,          Do you discount 1Tm.2:5? 1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org So where in 1 Timothy 2:5 do you see a denial that Jesus is God? I see only an affirmative of His humanity. Did you take a course in Logic in College Ed? You anti-Jesus people have never produced a negative which says, “Christ is NOT God.” Yet WJ and I have produced many affirmatives such as, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” Jack

Hi Jack,

“The Word” is the “HolySpirit”! (Click Here)

Forum » BELIEVERS PLACE » Truth or Tradition? »
“the word” is really the “holyspirit”, Traditions of men say otherwise?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2011,01:53)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2011,18:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2011,07:36) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 21 2011,05:14) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2011,19:50) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 21 2011,18:45) Son of God = God Hi Jack,               Sons of God  =  God? …Mmmm?? Rom,8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.             Children of God  =  God? …Mmmm?? Rom.8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: We are sons by adoption sir! You conveniently left that part of Paul's statement out of your equation. Christ is God's only begotten Son. Begotten = kind = God KJ Jack Dogs begets Dog. Ducks begets Duck. Humans begets Human. God begets God. Blessings WJ Hi WJ, With regard to a male “Horse” and a female “Donkey”, is the “Horses” offspring a “Horse”? Jesus' Father was “God” and his mother was “Human”, DO YOU SEE A CONNECTION HERE? ED No I don't see the connection of a horse and donkey with the Father and the Son. If Jesus is a half breed and not fully man then he could not save us. If Jesus is half god and half man, or a Demi-god, then he could not save us. Jesus has to be both fully human after the flesh and fully God after the Spirit to save us! WJ

Hi WJ,

Jesus paid all of our sin debt;
it's “God The Father” that saves us!
2Cor.5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing
their trespasses unto them(because of Christ); and hath
committed unto us (HolySpirit)”The Word” of reconciliation.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I (die) go away: for
if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he(God) shall give you another Comforter(the HolySpirit),
that he(God) may abide with you for ever; (Note: Emmanuel also means “God with us”: Matthew 1:23)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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