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STOP LYING ABOUT IT!
Why do so many Christians today continue to LIE about what they really believe about “the Bible”? Actually, more and more of them are beginning to be more honest about their beliefs and are beginning to admit that they do not believe “The Bible IS the inerrant words of God”.
God is a God of truth and He cannot lie (Titus 1:2) and we His people are supposed to speak truth one with another. “Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: (Eph. 4:25)
God says in His word – “Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are His delight.” Proverbs 12:22
God’s word also tells us that the last days will be characterized by LYING. “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils (Yea, hath God said…?) SPEAKING LIES IN HYPOCRISY…” 1 Timothy 4:1-2
If you go to almost any Christian website or Church home page they tell you what they supposedly believe about “The Bible”. You will usually read words to the effect of “We believe the Bible IS the inerrant and infallible word of God.” Notice their use of a present tense verb “is” as though it were something that EXISTS now. However, if you press them about it, you soon come to find out they are not talking about any real or tangible “hold it in your hands, read and believe every word is true” type of Bible. No, they don’t really believe such a thing exists. Then they begin their backtracking, Double-Speak Dance by saying something like “Oh well, only the originals ARE inspired and inerrant.” Well, my Christian friend, there ARE no originals and everybody knows it.
Then they come up with a really lame and absurd statement like the one found in the well known Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy.
“Translations of Scripture ARE the Word of God to the extent that they faithfully represent the original.” Pious sounding statements like this are absurdly hypocritical on several levels.
First of all, they have never seen a single word of these originals a day in their lives and the originals never did make up a 66 books in one volume Bible to begin with. Secondly, it is absurd to affirm that “translations are the Word of God to the extent that they faithfully represent the original”, when they HAVE no original to compare ANY translation to! So how could they possibly know if what they have come up with at their Bible of the Month Club “represents the original” or not?
They try to give you the impression that they have “the originals” or a copy of them right there in front of them and they’re looking to see if their “late$t and be$t ver$ion” matches the originals or not. THEY ARE LYING.
To take the position of “only the originals are inspired and inerrant” is to leave the Christian with no inerrant Bible NOW, and there is no getting around this obvious truth.
A far more honest “statement of inerrancy” based on what they really believe (and most other Christians today too) would go something like this: “IF the originals had survived and WOULD HAVE BEEN placed into a single volume consisting of 66 inspired books, THEN THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN the inerrant and 100% historically true Bible we could have believed in. Unfortunately God did not do it this way and so we just have to do the best we can with what we have and nobody is really sure about or in total agreement with everybody else about what any particular reading or text might be. So, go with God and hope for the best.”
Even AFTER I pointed these things out to a Christian man named Matthew, he came back with this statement: “I believe the originals are inerrant and I believe the stream and transmission we have is the best we can expect. I do not see any reason to assume error as we continue to strive forward we have more access to affirming a bible as close to the originals as possible.”
He still doesn’t get it, does he. There ARE no originals, so how could he possibly know he is “close to the originals as possible” or not?
By the way, this Matthew also posted that he “likes” the NKJV, the NASB and the ESV. Apparently he is either unaware or “sees no reason to assume error” in the fact that among these three modern versions they differ textually by literally thousands of words, including numerous whole verses, and a couple of them reject scores of Hebrew readings, and hundreds of verses have completely different meanings. Matthew also tells us that he thinks Mark 16:9-20 and 1 John 5:7 don’t really belong in the Bible, but he still maintains that he “sees no reason to assume error.” Does this modern day Christian’s lackadaisical attitude toward the words of the living God look anything like what we see in the Bible of those “that tremble at His word”? (Isaiah 66:5)
All I am asking for is more honesty from folks when it comes to saying what they REALLY believe about the Bible. I, along with thousands of other Christians, am a King James Bible believer. We do not have to LIE when we say we believe the King James Bible IS the complete, inspired, inerrant and 100% historically true words of God. That is what we really believe.
You do not have to agree with us on this. You may think we are completely wrong, ignorant, uneducated, “divisive”, the spawn of Satan, a “Cult” or what seems to be even worse – a Ruckmanite :-0 But at least we tell you what we really believe and are not LYING ABOUT IT.
By the way, this same Matthew posted a poll called “Is KJV onlyism a cult”. It seems more than a tad ironic that in his mind Christians who actually believe their Bible IS the inerrant words of God belong to a Cult, but apparently those who don’t believe that ANY Bible in ANY language IS inerrant are now considered to be “Orthodox”. We do live in interesting times, don’t we.
IF you are an “originals only” type of Christian who believes that ONLY the originals were inspired and inerrant, and that “No translation is perfect”, then just say so. Be honest about it. But don’t stand in the pulpit or write on your blog things like “We believe the Bible IS the inerrant words of God”, when you have no such Bible anywhere in print to give to anyone, and you know you don’t. STOP LYING ABOUT IT!
If you are an “originals only” type of Christian with a non-existent, hypothetical “word of God” and all you can hope for is an ever changing, evolving, ballpark approximation to what you think God may or may not have written (though none of you agree even among yourselves), then just say so. Go ahead with your “I believe only the originals were inspired and inerrant” and leave it at that. It is good that you say “The Bible contains the truth that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead and those that believe on Him shall receive forgiveness of sins.” We believe that too and want it preached. But don’t use pious sounding words or religious phrases like “the Bible IS infallible” or “the Scriptures ARE the inerrant words of God” when you don’t really believe it for a second. STOP LYING ABOUT IT!
“Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.” Isaiah 66:5
Will Kinney
journey42,Aug. wrote:[/quote]
So just to sum it all up, we need to trust the Word of God.
Millions and millions of christians are constantly flocking to new translations that are constantly coming out, but no-body seems to trust in the version that was delivered to us. The KJV was the first one made available to all men, printed in such large quantities and issued to the world.If the KJV has mistakes, then why would God allow this one to be sent out to us?
Why would God release his Word with errors, and with corruption when the scriptures teach us that the written Word of God which we have received, (if indeed you have received it?) is infallable.No-body has the original scrolls, only copies. we have to trust the Word of God.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
This is the Word that was delivered to us.
Now we are all arguing over the Word of God, so how can it be used for doctrine, for reproof, for correction for instruction in righteousness?
You will read all sorts of negative information regarding the KJV. This is done by church groups to defame.
We cannot make God a liar.
Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 07 2012,05:41) If the KJV has mistakes, then why would God allow this one to be sent out to us?
Why would God release his Word with errors, and with corruption when the scriptures teach us that the written Word of God which we have received, (if indeed you have received it?) is infallable.
Philippians 2:6 CEVChrist was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.
Is this translation of Phil 2:6 “infallable”, journey? Did God Himself “allow” this version to be sent out to us – despite the fact it doesn't even come close to accurately translating the teaching of Phil 2:6?
Face it journey, the truth of God's written word is still out there, and we now have the tools necessary to dig it up. BUT…………. we must be willing to be like the Bereans and actually do some digging.
Have you forgotten that Satan is the god of this world? Have you forgotten that all men are flawed, and certain of them are led by Satan?
Men have been doctoring the written word of God for centuries. Many of them, like the ones who translated the text above, most likely think they are doing God a service by ALTERING the text the way they did.
Just remember that we don't live in a perfect world. And because of this, we often have to do some “un-altering” to get at the real truth of the scriptures.
peace,
mikeJ42
Quote All I am asking for is more honesty from folks when it comes to saying what they REALLY believe about the Bible. I, along with thousands of other Christians, am a King James Bible believer. We do not have to LIE when we say we believe the King James Bible IS the complete, inspired, inerrant and 100% historically true words of God. That is what we really believe. I personally have many bibles in different languages ,but having study the scriptures so long ,I came to the understanding that it is not so important the version of your bible ,what is more important is the message in it DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MESSAGE ,??? you may have notice that in basics the message never changes in any version in any language ,and this is what counts ,God purpose has been achieved ,but if you keep reading it and pray you will find out that with a pure heart God will make him known to you ,and show you the way to the truth ,no matter what version of scriptures you own,
I use to believe like you that it was the letter that was important but this would mean that men would have more power than God ,stop being attached to the world of the flesh ,put the words of God in your heart ,and God will show the way to him,with what is in your heart ,
but you have to trust him,and believe that he will do that ,without a doubt,and in a pure heart ;
journey42,
I appreciate and agree with your belief that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God, however I disagree with your stand on AKJV. It is not that any translation represents this “inerrant and infallible word of God” exclusively (although some are far better than others) the truth is found and supported by the whole of scripture, that is our only safeguard against false doctrine. Now-days we have free access to scriptures as well as the ability to look at definitions of each and every word. Our goal needs to be to understand what the writer was trying to relay to us. If any translation creates conflicts elsewhere in scripture we need to rethink that translation.My opinion – Wm
Hi terraricca,
Quote I personally have many bibles in different languages ,but having study the scriptures so long ,I came to the understanding that it is not so important the version of your bible ,what is more important is the message in it DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MESSAGE ,??? you may have notice that in basics the message never changes in any version in any language ,and this is what counts ,God purpose has been achieved ,but if you keep reading it and pray you will find out that with a pure heart God will make him known to you ,and show you the way to the truth ,no matter what version of scriptures you own, I use to believe like you that it was the letter that was important but this would mean that men would have more power than God ,stop being attached to the world of the flesh ,put the words of God in your heart ,and God will show the way to him,with what is in your heart ,
but you have to trust him,and believe that he will do that ,without a doubt,and in a pure heart ;
This in my humble view is one of your most the most beautiful, truthful, lovely posts that I have ever read. Keep up the good work!With Love and Respect,
WispringHi Wispring,
Glad to see you back!
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 08 2012,10:32) J42 Quote All I am asking for is more honesty from folks when it comes to saying what they REALLY believe about the Bible. I, along with thousands of other Christians, am a King James Bible believer. We do not have to LIE when we say we believe the King James Bible IS the complete, inspired, inerrant and 100% historically true words of God. That is what we really believe. I personally have many bibles in different languages ,but having study the scriptures so long ,I came to the understanding that it is not so important the version of your bible ,what is more important is the message in it DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MESSAGE ,??? you may have notice that in basics the message never changes in any version in any language ,and this is what counts ,God purpose has been achieved ,but if you keep reading it and pray you will find out that with a pure heart God will make him known to you ,and show you the way to the truth ,no matter what version of scriptures you own,
I use to believe like you that it was the letter that was important but this would mean that men would have more power than God ,stop being attached to the world of the flesh ,put the words of God in your heart ,and God will show the way to him,with what is in your heart ,
but you have to trust him,and believe that he will do that ,without a doubt,and in a pure heart ;
Terra.Reading your answerto J42; tells me that you obviously have not studied all the prophesies.Once you do; then you will see the errors,in translations.
You have been concentrating only on the gospels,like most here.The bible is 75% prophesies. so you Your knowledge is only
– 25%,because even the gospels you have not fully understood.wakeup.
Hi to everyone. I like this post because it addresses the problem with so many translations out there.
I am a KJV man, but will look at the Amplified version and maybe the Jerusalem or another just to see and compare. I believe God's Word that He move on people who wrote the Old Testament where Peter said it is a more sure Word than any eye witnesses. When it comes to the New Testament some have a problem with it being accurate.
I don't believe God got weak and could not control what got in the New Testament.
While there are texts that are in italics and sometimes the meaning, (to me) is off from the truth, that is due to the ones who took the writings and without commas periods etc tried to work it out to what they believed it was saying, but with a little studying the KJV is very accurate.
(in my opinion) an example would be in John 9:1-5. When Jesus and His disciples came out and they saw this man who was blind, they ask Jesus, “who did sin, this man or his parents that he should be born blind”. Looking at His answer, I see it was clearly answered when He said “neither” ,the word “but” does not mean a continuation of who sinned or who was responsible. He had answered the question. When He said “but”, (or if) the works of God was to be manifested, I must do it.
If the works of God was to be “made” manifested, that means the works were not already manifested in this man. It was not God, as some teach, that made this man blind just so Jesus could come around and change the will of God for this man. The will of God was not blindness, for if it had been Jesus would not have said I must work the works of God in this man.
We have seen people who make their kids sick and just in time got them help making them a hero in others eyes. This is called Münchhausen by proxy syndrome. We put those in jail for this. Why would we think that God is above morality that he gave man to help guide him?
I have heard many people believe that God man this man blind so that Jesus could prove His divinity or some far off other reason.
I believe in the KJV, but will do my best to rightly divide the Word, and here a little and there a little etc to prove the scriptures. Also the basic foundation of the character of God. Jesus said “if you have seen me you have seen the Father”. “I only do and say what the Father says and does”. “How God anointed Jesus who healed all who were “”oppressed by the devil”” not God.Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 08 2012,12:21) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 08 2012,10:32) J42 Quote All I am asking for is more honesty from folks when it comes to saying what they REALLY believe about the Bible. I, along with thousands of other Christians, am a King James Bible believer. We do not have to LIE when we say we believe the King James Bible IS the complete, inspired, inerrant and 100% historically true words of God. That is what we really believe. I personally have many bibles in different languages ,but having study the scriptures so long ,I came to the understanding that it is not so important the version of your bible ,what is more important is the message in it DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MESSAGE ,??? you may have notice that in basics the message never changes in any version in any language ,and this is what counts ,God purpose has been achieved ,but if you keep reading it and pray you will find out that with a pure heart God will make him known to you ,and show you the way to the truth ,no matter what version of scriptures you own,
I use to believe like you that it was the letter that was important but this would mean that men would have more power than God ,stop being attached to the world of the flesh ,put the words of God in your heart ,and God will show the way to him,with what is in your heart ,
but you have to trust him,and believe that he will do that ,without a doubt,and in a pure heart ;
Terra.Reading your answerto J42; tells me that you obviously have not studied all the prophesies.Once you do; then you will see the errors,in translations.
You have been concentrating only on the gospels,like most here.The bible is 75% prophesies. so you Your knowledge is only
– 25%,because even the gospels you have not fully understood.wakeup.
WupYou would not believe what I believe in prophecies,you are full of your own interpretation that you do not see what his written,
Quote (Wispring @ Aug. 08 2012,10:31) Hi terraricca,
Quote I personally have many bibles in different languages ,but having study the scriptures so long ,I came to the understanding that it is not so important the version of your bible ,what is more important is the message in it DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MESSAGE ,??? you may have notice that in basics the message never changes in any version in any language ,and this is what counts ,God purpose has been achieved ,but if you keep reading it and pray you will find out that with a pure heart God will make him known to you ,and show you the way to the truth ,no matter what version of scriptures you own, I use to believe like you that it was the letter that was important but this would mean that men would have more power than God ,stop being attached to the world of the flesh ,put the words of God in your heart ,and God will show the way to him,with what is in your heart ,
but you have to trust him,and believe that he will do that ,without a doubt,and in a pure heart ;
This in my humble view is one of your most the most beautiful, truthful, lovely posts that I have ever read. Keep up the good work!With Love and Respect,
Wispring
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2012,09:26) Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 07 2012,05:41) If the KJV has mistakes, then why would God allow this one to be sent out to us?
Why would God release his Word with errors, and with corruption when the scriptures teach us that the written Word of God which we have received, (if indeed you have received it?) is infallable.
Philippians 2:6 CEVChrist was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.
Is this translation of Phil 2:6 “infallable”, journey? Did God Himself “allow” this version to be sent out to us – despite the fact it doesn't even come close to accurately translating the teaching of Phil 2:6?
Face it journey, the truth of God's written word is still out there, and we now have the tools necessary to dig it up. BUT…………. we must be willing to be like the Bereans and actually do some digging.
Have you forgotten that Satan is the god of this world? Have you forgotten that all men are flawed, and certain of them are led by Satan?
Men have been doctoring the written word of God for centuries. Many of them, like the ones who translated the text above, most likely think they are doing God a service by ALTERING the text the way they did.
Just remember that we don't live in a perfect world. And because of this, we often have to do some “un-altering” to get at the real truth of the scriptures.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,Better stick with 1John 5:7,
because her FOCUS is on the “AKJV Bible”.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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