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Shimmer…….Yes it does apply to a Married women or a unmarried divorced women and if he marries a divorced women he is still committing adultery becasue of the breaking of covenant has already occurred and therefore she is a Adulterous even is it was not her fault. If the man unites with her sexually he is also becomes an adulterer no matter if he had nothing to do with her divorce in the first place the stigma still carries over to the new relationship for them both.
Now with regard to the other question, what if they live together without being Married, that falls into another category of sin, that is called “FORNICATION” it is equal as bad a sin and maybe even be worse, remember it say “no fornicator shall inter into the Kingdom of GOD”.
Lets look at the meaning of the word Fornication it is not what many think . Fornication means a living LIE another words two people live together or have sex and share their bodies but do not fully commit to a Marriage Covenant ,even though it appears as such, this is a false representation of a real thing and is considered a LIVING LIE.
Take a man who goes to a Bar and Meets a women there and He talks to her trying to pick her up and have sex with her , his only interest in in sex but he tells her all kind of thing making her believe he is seriously interested in her and she likes him and is naturally drawn in by his word and think she has a chance of a really committed relationship with him and even has sex with him and then finds out he was married already and had childern or the guy just ignores her after a sexual encounter and is cold to her, She will experience a very great let down and go into a state of depression . GOD HATES THAT, That person was a LIER to HER he was a FORNICATOR and Women can also do that to men also. Any sexual act before marriage is fornication a LIVING LIE.
So it boils down to these two terms that deal with relations ships ADULTERY (BREAKING OF COVENANT)> or FORNICATION (A LIVING LIE) Try not to get caught up in any of them . If you are married make every effort to stay in the relation and be faithful, if you are divorced and it is not you fault and you remarry be faithful in that relationship too. Remember all sin is forgivable through our Lord Jesus who gave himself for us all. But the “effects” of Adultery and Fornication will always be the same IMO
Peace and love to you and yours Shimmer………………………………………………gene
OK, so just as a quick summary to Genes post,
The law was never 'Done away with', as some mistakenly teach. Things like lust became adultery (of the heart). Jesus said, Mat 5:
“Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”
HOW should it exceed the Scribes and Pharisees? The chapter carries on:
“You have heard that it was said, `You shall not commit adultery.'
But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (this of course has to do with married or divorced woman, as Jesus was talking about adultery).
“If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.“It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery“.
So the law was still in place, but it became HARDER as things such as adultery became a state of the heart and mind, not just deeds. God knew the Scribes and Pharisees heart and mind, (inside of the cup and outside of the cup) and so it is today.
When Jesus said that it was better to 'Pluck out your right eye – or cut off your right hand', What he meant was not literal, but it meant to AVOID what is causing you to sin. (Flee from sexual immoralty, as it says). Don't even dialogue with such a person if they are enticing you to sin.
(Do I have all this right??)
And fornication is a sin.
I liked the way you said it Gene:
Quote Take a man who goes to a Bar and Meets a women there and He talks to her trying to pick her up and have sex with her , his only interest in in sex but he tells her all kind of thing making her believe he is seriously interested in her and she likes him and is naturally drawn in by his word and think she has a chance of a really committed relationship with him and even has sex with him and then finds out he was married already and had childern or the guy just ignores her after a sexual encounter and is cold to her, She will experience a very great let down and go into a state of depression . GOD HATES THAT, That person was a LIER to HER he was a FORNICATOR and Women can also do that to men also. Any sexual act before marriage is fornication a LIVING LIE. That is so true.
And I was also thinking of the Samaritan woman at the well and her meeting with Jesus. She had been married five times and the last one she was not married to.
I was reading this online which I'll post, I thought it was quite good:
Quote:
“A Samaritan woman (we never do learn her name) came along to draw some water. The time of day is worthy of note, as women usually came to draw water when it was cooler. This woman is probably well aware of her tarnished reputation and deliberately chooses the least popular time of day to draw water, careful to avoid the whispers, jeers and clear disgust of her “neighbors.” What a sad way to have to go through ones' life, tried and convicted in the eyes of ones' own people – not deemed worthy of their love or consideration.
—-
As I read the story of the Samaritan Woman, I found myself wondering what it was that drew Jesus to her. He sought her out; this was not a case of some lost soul chasing after Jesus for help or forgiveness. He sat at Jacob's Well and waited for her to come for water, knowing that she would. Her human neighbors did not want to be seen near her, but the Son of God went out of his way (literally) to spend time with her. Not only that, but He actually told her that He was the Messiah [John 4:26], the only time He admits this to anyone before His appearance before Pilate upon His arrest.
He traveled on foot through what was clearly “enemy territory” to bring the Good News that Christ had come in person to someone most people took great pains to avoid!
It is this innate compassion, empathy, and love Christ demonstrated toward others that draws me to the One who has always been. He didn't sit around under a shady tree spouting off insincere platitudes while his underlings ran themselves ragged fetching Him food and wine. He fed everyone at the Sermon on the Mount and provided miraculous wine at the wedding in Cana [1 John:2]. Jesus knew that many were actively seeking his death, yet he continued reaching out to people — individually and en masse — every day. All the while His closest friends were preparing to betray him.
Christ loved them anyway.
Staring down from Calvary's bitter cross through eyes blinded with his own blood, Jesus used what little air was left in his aching lungs and called out to God, “Father, forgive them. They know not what they do.” [Luke 23:34] That was the epitome of love, lived out by a Man who personified true agape love. Surrounded by those who nailed his hands and feet to the cross, as well as by the crowds who cried out “Crucify him! Crucify him!” and those who orchestrated his arrest, conviction and crucifixion, Jesus forgave them. He could have come down from that cross in a veritable whirlwind of awesome power and final judgment. He could have struck everyone dead where they stood.
He could have.
He probably should have.
Yet He did not.
He always went where He was needed, regardless of how it “looked” or what others may have thought. Repeatedly throughout the Gospels we are given examples of Christ's infinite love for those who were considered infinitely unlovable and unworthy by the society in which they lived. In this, Christ was so very much unlike us. Where we would have called down the wrath of God Almighty on our persecutors, Jesus earnestly called down God's forgiveness.
The Samaritan woman was open to receiving the message that Jesus Christ was bringing to her, and He loved her as a child of the kingdom for that. Where the religious leaders and the so-called “cream” of Judean society thought someone like her was not worth the breath they drew, the very Son of God made a special trip just to offer her a place in His coming kingdom. He reached out to her and she reached back.
She didn't say “No, Lord, you can't be telling me this. I'm no one, I'm not worthy enough to even fetch you water.” She didn't say that it was beneath a Samaritan, even a Samaritan woman with a tarnished reputation, to talk to a Jew. Instead, she said, “Could this be the Messiah? Come and see!
And so we remember this dear woman to this very day”.
(So much for me being quiet – I'm trying). Just a question:
So can a past fornicator, who has NEVER been legally married, and is now alone and freed from her past life, go on and marry (for the first time in her life) if it is Gods will?
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 26 2012,22:49) (So much for me being quiet – I'm trying). Just a question: So can a past fornicator, who has NEVER been legally married, and is now alone and freed from her past life, go on and marry (for the first time in her life) if it is Gods will?
Hi Shimmer, YHVH forgives sin, consider King David. I aslo believe that this verse relevant…Deut 30:1-6 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse,
which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God
hath driven thee, And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command
thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; That then the LORD thy God will [remove]
thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy
God hath scattered thee. If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God
will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee
above thy fathers. And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all
thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgShimmer…….Any “PAST” Fornicator can who has never been married , can Marry in a sincere relationship and inter a Covenant with each other, The Key is to make sure we Keep the Covenant and fulfill it's requirements of FAITHFULNESSES . We must be faithful to our covenanted agreements before GOD. When a women gives up her Self to a Man she is no longer a separate person she has become one with her husband and he becomes her head. This is a great spiritual principle also, When Israel entered into a covenant With GOD they said all the the Eternal has said we will DO, and GOD became her Husband and Kept his responsibilities to Her he gave her great blessings of Land riches Homes He blessed their lands there habitations he increased there productivity over all nations of the earth, her riches, her child bearing, gave her leaders wisdom and prospered them in every way.
But She played the part of an ADULTERERS and committed Adultery also a Whore with the nations around her even worse then a whore she paid her lovers instead of her lovers paying her. She took their false GOD'S as her GOD and gave them praise and glory for all that the Eternal her Husband had given her, she went a whoring after these pagans and even gave them her Childern to be burn in worship to their false Gods. They provoked the Eternal GOD to anger, just as any loving Husband would be if his wife did to him what Israel did to her husband the LORD GOD. He therefore stuck them in his anger he became enraged and his Jealously took hold of him and he divorced her and cast them out of his land and gave it to her lovers who used her and stripped her of all the things the Eternal GOD her Husband had given her and GOD cast her our of the land he gave her , but his love for her never left Him even today GOD Still LOVES ISRAEL , His divorced Wife.
Therefore it is written if She will remember him, from all the lands where the Lord God has driven her and repent from her heart and take hold of all the commandments of God, and become sorrowed in her heart of all the evil they have done to the one who Married Her, He will from there come to her and will gather her and bring her back to the land he gave her and once again bless her even more then before, and more then that, He said He would Heal Her Faithlessness and give her a Faithfully Heart. Gods love never left Him for Israel He is a LOVING and a FAITHFUL GOD, A true Husband in every sense of the word.
Now this is also true with the Wise virgins who will enter into with Jesus, a Marriage Covenant and the Saints will be His Bride and like all Marriage it will require faithfulness, and the head of his Bride will be Jesus Christ and his bride must obey him in faithfulness. Our faithfulness is being tested even now IMO.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………….gene
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 25 2012,17:06) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2012,18:40) Hi Shimmer, Thanks for the explanation.
I have never heard of such a thing before.
Is sex outside of this spiritual type of marriage permitted?
“However, he would 'sleep with them' (only)” …is that what this means?God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed.Apparently, yes.
And if the man meets a woman and wants to legally marry her, what happens to the 'Spiritual Wives'??
Hi Shimmer,I guess it was really all fake all along then, right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2012,07:53) Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 25 2012,17:06) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2012,18:40) Hi Shimmer, Thanks for the explanation.
I have never heard of such a thing before.
Is sex outside of this spiritual type of marriage permitted?
“However, he would 'sleep with them' (only)” …is that what this means?God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed.Apparently, yes.
And if the man meets a woman and wants to legally marry her, what happens to the 'Spiritual Wives'??
Hi Shimmer,I guess it was really all fake all along then, right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,No, not nessesarily so, not if distance is an issue.
I have read so many stories of people meeting on the net, and eventually ending up together in the flesh, and they loved each other.
I mean, look at us as believers, we know God, and we know his Son – through what? – WORDS and SPIRIT (Not Flesh).
However, if the two lovers did meet up, and they had no commitment to marriage, then it is nothing but an excuse for fornication which is Biblically wrong as you have (all) now shown.
And then is the issue of adultery and a divorced woman. (I never knew any of this).
Clearly, it says, fornicators and adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God. As it is written:
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God”.
There are Christian people who don't know this.
They know the Bible off by heart but seemed to have missed out, or misunderstood these bits.
Hi Shimmer,
The bible also says that those who repented from such activities
“are” eligible for the kingdom of God. (see 1Corinthians 6:9-11)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgShimmer,
Jesus' words and those of Paul apply to believers only. The old self dies when a person enters the new contract and a new self with a clean slate is created.
Hi Kerwin and Ed, yes, that's right.
But once they know (as I now know) they have to leave their old sinful ways behind.
Example, if I was a PAST fornicator (never married), and was on my own now, and as a Christian, have just learnt this – then I can only ever be with a man if I marry him. There is no excuse. And if I marry him, and if we divorce, I can NOT remarry.
And if a person was comitting fornication or adultery – even if in thought alone (as Jesus said) – I mean, a believer.. Once he knows it's a sin, he needs to stop it and repent.
Question: How come Muslims seem to have a better grasp on this than Christians do? I mean, so many Christian do NOT know this, even though Jesus said it.
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 27 2012,04:30) Hi Kerwin and Ed, yes, that's right. But once they know (as I now know) they have to leave their old sinful ways behind.
Example, if I was a PAST fornicator (never married), and was on my own now, and as a Christian, have just learnt this – then I can only ever be with a man if I marry him. There is no excuse. And if I marry him, and if we divorce, I can NOT remarry.
And if a person was comitting fornication or adultery – even if in thought alone (as Jesus said) – I mean, a believer.. Once he knows it's a sin, he needs to stop it and repent.
Shimmer,If a non-believer divorces for a reason other than adultery and then remarries while still a non-believer then their situation is not addressed by scripture even though it is still sinful. If that unbeliever then comes to believe their current marriage is a valid marriage as the divorce was the deed of one without the Spirit of God.
Kerwin, yes.
So start with this that I said:
Example, if I was a PAST fornicator (never married), and was on my own now, and as a Christian, have just learnt this – then I can only ever be with a man if I marry him. There is no excuse. And if I marry him, and if we divorce, I can NOT remarry.
Now change the words to if I was divorced.
As a woman, if I was divorced, and on my own now, and as a Christian, have just learnt this – then I can not ever marry again. There is no excuse. And a man who is a Christian and has just learnt this, then he canNOt ever marry a divorced woman – no excuse, or he becomes an adulterer.
If a couple are into their second marriage, and come to learn this as Christians, then they should continue on as they are, because their sins are forgiven.
Do I have that right?
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 27 2012,05:43) Kerwin, yes. So start with this that I said:
Example, if I was a PAST fornicator (never married), and was on my own now, and as a Christian, have just learnt this – then I can only ever be with a man if I marry him. There is no excuse. And if I marry him, and if we divorce, I can NOT remarry.
Now change the words to if I was divorced.
As a woman, if I was divorced, and on my own now, and as a Christian, have just learnt this – then I can not ever marry again. There is no excuse. And a man who is a Christian and has just learnt this, then he canNOt ever marry a divorced woman – no excuse, or he becomes an adulterer.
If a couple are into their second marriage, and come to learn this as Christians, then they should continue on as they are, because their sins are forgiven.
Do I have that right?
Shimmer,It sounds correct.
Adultery is a just reason for divorce.
If an unbeliever desired the divorce then the believer is not bound.
In any other case the believer should seek reconciliation unless they are in a second marriage.
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 27 2012,09:34)
Question: How come Muslims seem to have a better grasp on this than Christians do? I mean, so many Christian do NOT know this, even though Jesus said it.
Hi Shimmer, muslims?They believe they can own 'slaves' and fornicate with them.
They believe they can have 4 wives if they want 4wives.
They believe they can divorce one and get another.
CERTAINLY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND islam?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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