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Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,19:38) Just saying that Irenaeus understood it the same way as Hermas, and they were BEFORE Origen.
They are all just men, 2B. Where did Irenaeus say the word was God's Holy Spirit Son? I didn't see that part.Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,15:25) As for the rest of what you said, I have never claimed that God is “more than one”. Nor did Jesus. And my understanding that our ONE God was talking to His divine counsel of angels in Gen 1:26 also doesn't imply that I think God is more than ONE. So I don't really know what all that is about. 
I was replying to this part of your discussion.
Quote Let us look at: Genesis 1:26
King James Version (KJV)26 And God(elohim) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
It is the elohim, which is a plural word by nature, that stated “us”. Elsewhere it is written that man is a little lower than the elohim.
Who is in the unity of the elohim at the time man is made?
Quote
We know that Jesus, God's firstborn, and also myriads of angels were with God when He created the earth, and ultimately mankind.He could have been speaking ONLY to the firstborn, through whom He then created the adam. Or He could have been speaking to the entire divine counsel of angels.
To whom do YOU think God was speaking?
Which is why I addressed it to both you and to Kerwin. I was giving you some facts.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,15:30) Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,19:38) Just saying that Irenaeus understood it the same way as Hermas, and they were BEFORE Origen.
They are all just men, 2B. Where did Irenaeus say the word was God's Holy Spirit Son? I didn't see that part.He didn't. Hermas did. Ireneaus said plainly that the word in John 1 whom all things were made through was God's own spoken word.
Anyway, if you have any questions, just ask.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,13:26) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:22) dont you see the upper part of that footnote?
Post it for us all, jammin. I didn't post the entire, huge footnote – only the sensible CONCLUSION that these 25 TRINITARIAN scholars came to.If YOU want to post the rest of it, go ahead. All it says is that many people want to IMAGINE some trinity hint with these words, but it's basically nothing but their own wishful thinking.
i posted it already . check my old post boy.many said they are trinitarians but not all have the same knowledge just like the apostles.
true christians know what the bible says.
mike,
if you cant read in gen 1.26 that God is talking to his angles then you make one boy for you. make your own version LOL
Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,20:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,15:25) As for the rest of what you said, I have never claimed that God is “more than one”. Nor did Jesus. And my understanding that our ONE God was talking to His divine counsel of angels in Gen 1:26 also doesn't imply that I think God is more than ONE. So I don't really know what all that is about. I was replying to this part of your discussion.
Quote Let us look at: Genesis 1:26
King James Version (KJV)26 And God(elohim) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
It is the elohim, which is a plural word by nature, that stated “us”. Elsewhere it is written that man is a little lower than the elohim.
Who is in the unity of the elohim at the time man is made?
Quote
We know that Jesus, God's firstborn, and also myriads of angels were with God when He created the earth, and ultimately mankind.He could have been speaking ONLY to the firstborn, through whom He then created the adam. Or He could have been speaking to the entire divine counsel of angels.
To whom do YOU think God was speaking?
Which is why I addressed it to both you and to Kerwin. I was giving you some facts.
Which of those words from Kerwin or myself led you to believe we think God Almighty is more than one?Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,16:02) Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,20:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,15:25) As for the rest of what you said, I have never claimed that God is “more than one”. Nor did Jesus. And my understanding that our ONE God was talking to His divine counsel of angels in Gen 1:26 also doesn't imply that I think God is more than ONE. So I don't really know what all that is about. I was replying to this part of your discussion.
Quote Let us look at: Genesis 1:26
King James Version (KJV)26 And God(elohim) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
It is the elohim, which is a plural word by nature, that stated “us”. Elsewhere it is written that man is a little lower than the elohim.
Who is in the unity of the elohim at the time man is made?
Quote
We know that Jesus, God's firstborn, and also myriads of angels were with God when He created the earth, and ultimately mankind.He could have been speaking ONLY to the firstborn, through whom He then created the adam. Or He could have been speaking to the entire divine counsel of angels.
To whom do YOU think God was speaking?
Which is why I addressed it to both you and to Kerwin. I was giving you some facts.
Which of those words from Kerwin or myself led you to believe we think God Almighty is more than one?You said that Elohim is plural and that the “us” and the “our” indicates that there was more than one God/god there in the beginning.. in which man was made in multiple God/gods images… it seems that is what you were saying.
Or did I misunderstand what you were saying?
Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,20:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,15:30) Where did Irenaeus say the word was God's Holy Spirit Son? He didn't. Hermas did.
So which one of them should we believe then?Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,13:26) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:22) dont you see the upper part of that footnote?
Post it for us all, jammin. I didn't post the entire, huge footnote – only the sensible CONCLUSION that these 25 TRINITARIAN scholars came to.If YOU want to post the rest of it, go ahead. All it says is that many people want to IMAGINE some trinity hint with these words, but it's basically nothing but their own wishful thinking.
i posted it already . check my old post boy.many said they are trinitarians but not all have the same knowledge just like the apostles.
true christians know what the bible says.
Dude, you asked for a version that said God was talking to angels in Gen 1:26. I posted a version from 25 TRINITARIAN scholars that says exactly that.So when are YOU going to post YOUR version that says our ONE God was talking to HIMSELF?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,14:10) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,13:26) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:22) dont you see the upper part of that footnote?
Post it for us all, jammin. I didn't post the entire, huge footnote – only the sensible CONCLUSION that these 25 TRINITARIAN scholars came to.If YOU want to post the rest of it, go ahead. All it says is that many people want to IMAGINE some trinity hint with these words, but it's basically nothing but their own wishful thinking.
i posted it already . check my old post boy.many said they are trinitarians but not all have the same knowledge just like the apostles.
true christians know what the bible says.
Dude, you asked for a version that said God was talking to angels in Gen 1:26. I posted a version from 25 TRINITARIAN scholars that says exactly that.So when are YOU going to post YOUR version that says our ONE God was talking to HIMSELF?
ill post again the net bible so that you can see it again
Genesis 1:26
New English Translation (NET)
26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.where can you read in that verse that God is talking to his angels?
you are giving me a footnote boy! LOLgive me a version and not footnote!LOL
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,14:10) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,13:26) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:22) dont you see the upper part of that footnote?
Post it for us all, jammin. I didn't post the entire, huge footnote – only the sensible CONCLUSION that these 25 TRINITARIAN scholars came to.If YOU want to post the rest of it, go ahead. All it says is that many people want to IMAGINE some trinity hint with these words, but it's basically nothing but their own wishful thinking.
i posted it already . check my old post boy.many said they are trinitarians but not all have the same knowledge just like the apostles.
true christians know what the bible says.
Dude, you asked for a version that said God was talking to angels in Gen 1:26. I posted a version from 25 TRINITARIAN scholars that says exactly that.So when are YOU going to post YOUR version that says our ONE God was talking to HIMSELF?
talking to himself?? LOLGod the father is not talking to God the father boy LOL
God the father is talking to God the son.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,16:08) Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,20:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,15:30) Where did Irenaeus say the word was God's Holy Spirit Son? He didn't. Hermas did.
So which one of them should we believe then?Put them both together.
Hermas wrote first, and Hermas said the eternal Son was the Holy Spirit and Jesus was a man, and Jesus and the Holy Spirit Son became one.
Ireneaus says that the Word in John 1 whom all things were made was God's own spoken word which is what I have always said also.
So, God made all things through His Spirit and through His word. All the one God.
And then add onto that what Paul says “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”.
One God/spirit/word, and one man, and together they worked as one.
Don't deny the power.
Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,21:08) You said that Elohim is plural and that the “us” and the “our” indicates that there was more than one God/god there in the beginning.. in which man was made in multiple God/gods images… it seems that is what you were saying. Or did I misunderstand what you were saying?
Yeah, I think you misunderstood.I believe that our ONE God Almighty created His spirit sons (including Jesus) in His image long before He said, “Let us make man in OUR image”.
He was talking about making Adam in the image all of them already shared – BECAUSE He he already previously made THEM in His image.
So we weren't MADE in the image of “multiple gods”, but we share an image with the Most High God AND the spirit sons whom He made before us. (These spirit sons are sometimes called gods in scripture.)
Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,21:14) talking to himself?? LOL God the father is not talking to God the father boy LOL
God the father is talking to God the son.
How do YOU know which “person in the Godhead” was doing the talking?Perhaps the Holy Spirit God said these words to the Son God, and the Father God wasn't even part of the discussion.
How exactly do you KNOW it was the Father talking to the Son? And where is your version that says so?
Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,21:13) where can you read in that verse that God is talking to his angels?
you are giving me a footnote boy! LOL
Are you kidding me?
99% of your “versions” that say what you want them to say are in brackets, italics, or footnotes, jammin.Are we now changing the rules? Okay, good! From now on, NEITHER of us can print anything but what the actual Hebrew or Greek text says, okay?
Now, where is your version that says God was talking to God in that verse? (Oh, and not a footnote, okay?
)Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,21:15) Put them both together.
I don't want to put those two very different teachings together, 2B. I want to see where Hermas said the Word was a literal spoken word from God, or where Irenaeus says the Word is the Holy Spirit Son of God.Unless they BOTH say the SAME THING, one does not support the other.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,16:23) Quote (2besee @ April 29 2013,21:15) Put them both together.
I don't want to put those two very different teachings together, 2B. I want to see where Hermas said the Word was a literal spoken word from God, or where Irenaeus says the Word is the Holy Spirit Son of God.Unless they BOTH say the SAME THING, one does not support the other.
Hermas never mentioned John 1. Irenaues on the other hand was specifically talking about John 1 and creation. Hermas said that the world was created through the Holy Spirit. Ireneus regarding John 1 said the world was made through God's spoken word. Genesis tells us that God created the world through his spoken word and through his spirit. So, “wakey-wakey” Mike!
Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,09:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,14:10) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,13:26) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,20:22) dont you see the upper part of that footnote?
Post it for us all, jammin. I didn't post the entire, huge footnote – only the sensible CONCLUSION that these 25 TRINITARIAN scholars came to.If YOU want to post the rest of it, go ahead. All it says is that many people want to IMAGINE some trinity hint with these words, but it's basically nothing but their own wishful thinking.
i posted it already . check my old post boy.many said they are trinitarians but not all have the same knowledge just like the apostles.
true christians know what the bible says.
Dude, you asked for a version that said God was talking to angels in Gen 1:26. I posted a version from 25 TRINITARIAN scholars that says exactly that.So when are YOU going to post YOUR version that says our ONE God was talking to HIMSELF?
ill post again the net bible so that you can see it again
Genesis 1:26
New English Translation (NET)
26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.where can you read in that verse that God is talking to his angels?
you are giving me a footnote boy! LOLgive me a version and not footnote!LOL
Jammin,The word God is translated from elohim and elohim is plural.
Do you think the angels were sitting there with there fingers in their ears?
Job 38:4-7
King James Version (KJV)4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,14:21) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,21:13) where can you read in that verse that God is talking to his angels?
you are giving me a footnote boy! LOL
Are you kidding me? 99% of your “versions” that say what you want them to say are in brackets, italics, or footnotes, jammin.Are we now changing the rules? Okay, good! From now on, NEITHER of us can print anything but what the actual Hebrew or Greek text says, okay?
Now, where is your version that says God was talking to God in that verse? (Oh, and not a footnote, okay?
)
i did not give you footnote.
i give you version boy. LOLyou have a memory gap.
LOL
just give me version and stop talking
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,14:17) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,21:14) talking to himself?? LOL God the father is not talking to God the father boy LOL
God the father is talking to God the son.
How do YOU know which “person in the Godhead” was doing the talking?Perhaps the Holy Spirit God said these words to the Son God, and the Father God wasn't even part of the discussion.
How exactly do you KNOW it was the Father talking to the Son? And where is your version that says so?
you always say GOd is talking to himself LOLthat is why im correcting you boy.
God the father is not talking to God the father.
he is not crazy like you boy.
LOLGod the father is talking to God the son.
that is the right thinking boy
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