- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Nick……….is this not what i was saying all along , reasoning is a precious gift from God , and we need to use it brother. I well know there are Carnal reasonings and there are Spiritual reasonings also. I try to express Spiritual reasonings here as I believe most also do , But some are more advanced then other in there Spiritual growth. Anyway i think we agree on this subject of reason.
love and peace to you and yours……………………………….gene
Kerwin……..where did i say I desire God to use evil. When in fact you are the one imputing Evil on others and accusing and judging them, you have not proved one Scripture that i have stated wrong as stated, and saying you have addressed them is also false you have not addressed any of them. Maybe in you misguided (Evil Mind) as you say you have, you have, but fact are you have not addressed any of them. And to say God does not us evil is also a false statement , there are plenty of scripture that shows He certainly does use Evil. If you want I can list plenty of scripture that proves this point, but first i think you need to truly address the scriptures i have previously stated. especially about Judging others. IMO
gene
LU……….What i believe is Jesus was forordained or in the plan and foreknowledge of God way before He was ever born on earth, He certainely was of GOD, But the question did He preexist before His Berth as some kind of Being, I believe like Peter said < God foreordained Him (BUT) He was Manifested (came into being) in our time. Lu Jesus is exactly like us in every way, He is our prefect example of what we can become. I don't believe God the Father took a already Perfect Being and Kill Him and rebirth Him and them have him die again. I don't believe this for several reasons, 1, what example would that be for us if God did that. 2, How could we honestly identify ourselves truly with him , 3, why does is say He learned Obedience if he already knew obedience. 4, Jesus himself relates with us as son of man. and even where it say the is (ONLY) one GOD and One mediator between Man and GOD (THE MAN) Jesus Christ.5, Jesus never referenced himself as a GOD. I could go on but I believe Martian gave a real good explanation of this IMO. LU if you come to see Jesus exactly like yourself then you will be greatly encouraged as to what the FATHER can do IN your LIFE also just as he did in Jesus our elder brothers life, He is Lord over the Household of God is under no Authority except the FATHER. WE do need to listen to Him and obey Him He imputes the perfect will of the FATHER to US. Remember the GOSPEL is not about Jesus it about the FATHER . Jesus Christ to the (GLORY) of GOD the FATHER.
love and peace to you and yours………………………………………gene
G,
You have told us before your God is of good and evil.
Why not worship the one God Who is GOOD and in Whom there is no evil?Hi Gene,
You say:Quote LU……….What i believe is Jesus was forordained or in the plan and foreknowledge of God way before He was ever born on earth, He certainely was of GOD, But is He God of God? Can you say that Gene? Does the Son of God = God of God?
Peace,
KathiGene wrote:
Quote where did I say I desire God to use evil.
As they say actions speak louder than words and you are using the word “judge” to enable evil. “Enable” does not mean “use” but rather I am using it to mean is to make it possible for someone to do evil without resistance. Let’s say person A speaks a falsehood in the name of the Lord and so uses God’s name in vain and Person B rebukes Person A for doing that evil. Now Person C comes along and rebukes person B for being judgmental. Person C has now misused scripture to enable the evil action of Person A.
I leave it to you to figure out which of the three individuals in my example performed an action that agrees with what God commands. I hope you prove my suspicions wrong and select the correct one. If not then hopefully you will learn in the future.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2009,13:06) The Truth wrote: Quote No we should never ignore Scriptures, unlike my counter-part, Kerwin the Great. The Scriptures do not call us The Son, but adopted children of God.
Deception does you no favors but then you are deceived and so deceiving. You need to believe what scripture states which is that it was the Holy Spirit that is in him that declares that Jesus is the Son of God and that it is through faith, that Jesus is the human being God made King of everything in heaven and on earth, that that same Spirit declares his true disciples are sons of God. I do hope that one day you will stop loving the evil you do and so cry out to God for deliverance because that is when God will reveal the truth to you. If that day ever arrives for you. Until that day you will gather around one false teacher or another that is telling your itching ears what they want to hear. That is your choice and you will be held accountable for it.
I have no deception. The Scriptures call us adopted children. That is a problem you can not deal with. Mainly because it goes against you doctrine of falsehood. You my friend follow a false teacher “telling you itching ears what they want”. I show you Scripture and you ignore it for your false doctrine. You will not believe Scripture because of your false beliefs. You show only the part of Christ you want to follow. Those being condemnation, not love, compassion, and mercy. You say the Scriptures are wrong and mistranslated when they do not follow your doctrine. Anyone who disagrees with you, you insult saying they are, “evil” and “being led by the Devil”. Then say turn around and say you are not judging. LOL! You ignore word meanings, and try and twist them. You go and search on the internet for someone who agrees with you, then post their comments as your own. I do NO evil, but praise God that I get to do his work. I praise Jesus for knowing that your persecution makes me closer to him. Oh to have been there walking with him, how great that would have been, and greater is knowing that someday I will.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2009,13:06)
The true ways of Jesus the Messiah are good for you and the false ways you choose to tread are harmful. Still it is up to you to choose the path to tread.My ways are the ways of Jesus the True Messiah, as the Scriptures say. Just because you choose not to believe Scriptures, does not make them wrong. You were not the inspired writer of the word. You are not an interpreter, but a false interpreter. You pick and choose Scriptures, then when someone shows you, you are wrong using Scriptures you say that it is “a misinterpretation”, or my favorite, “a mistranslation”. How hypocritical is it to use the Scriptures to, wrongly, make your point, then when someone else uses Scriptures say that the Scriptures are wrong? Do you not see yourself doing just that?
Read John 3:16-17, God did not send one of his sons, but his one and only Son. You want us to be like Jesus, because if he was not just a man, then your entire doctrine falls apart. You would not be able to become perfect and a god, as you want to be. You would have to admit that Jesus is God in the flesh, as Scriptures clearly say, thus making you have to worship him, as the Scriptures also say to do. You would have to show compassion, mercy, and love to those you dislike. Meaning you would not be able to route on the abortion clinic bombers, who also kill the innocent, but pray for them and love them. Not their actions but the fact that they are created by God also. So I will say as you said to me, “it is up to you to choose the path to tread.” Will you follow the Jesus of the Scriptures, or the Jesus of your own doctrine? Will you follow God's will or your own will? Free will isn't it great! You choose to follow God not him making you follow him like a mindless robot.Praise be to God the Father, his Son Jesus our Deliverer and Savior, and to the Holy Spirit, our Counselor. Three seperate yet One.
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 06 2009,03:10) Nick……….is this not what i was saying all along , reasoning is a precious gift from God , and we need to use it brother. I well know there are Carnal reasonings and there are Spiritual reasonings also. I try to express Spiritual reasonings here as I believe most also do , But some are more advanced then other in there Spiritual growth. Anyway i think we agree on this subject of reason. love and peace to you and yours……………………………….gene
G,
No we do not worship our reason.
It is such a liar.You are not advanced because you do not seem to magnify the wisdom of God but of men.
But truth is written
Gene sorry if I am over stepping by bounds here, but Kerwin and I go way back. Please do not take this as stepping on your toes, it's just Kerwin makes me laugh, and yet feel sorry for him for his lack of faith, and knowledge in the Word. I really wish he would read the Bible for what it can do for him, not what he can use it for to puff himself up. You know what I mean? That being said. On to Kerwin:
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 06 2009,07:06) Gene wrote: Quote where did I say I desire God to use evil.
As they say actions speak louder than words and you are using the word “judge” to enable evil. “Enable” does not mean “use” but rather I am using it to mean is to make it possible for someone to do evil without resistance. Let’s say person A speaks a falsehood in the name of the Lord and so uses God’s name in vain and Person B rebukes Person A for doing that evil. Now Person C comes along and rebukes person B for being judgmental. Person C has now misused scripture to enable the evil action of Person A.
Unless Person B, you, misuses Scripture to rebuke Person A, who is actually speaking the truth. Making it Person B, you the one who is wrong and thus making Persons A and C correct. Wait maybe you are Person A, and Person C is one of your lemmings. Then Persons A and C are wrong. Of course, if Person B is not rebuking as Christ did, with love, mercy ,and compassion, but by their own definition, and therefor actually judging making him wrong. So which are you exactly, the one spreading falsehoods, the one judging, or the lemming? Oh wait that is right you take on all three most times. Look Kerwin is his own trinity. (Deceiver, Self righteous, and a Blind Follower)
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 06 2009,07:06)
I leave it to you to figure out which of the three individuals in my example performed an action that agrees with what God commands. I hope you prove my suspicions wrong and select the correct one. If not then hopefully you will learn in the future.That's right Gene. Follow the doctrines of Kerwin and you will go far. (Possible not where you want to go, but far.) The correct answer to your problem is not to answer it, because you will twist it to mean however you want it to as I have pointed out already. However, to give you an answer, Person B, if they are doing as Christ and not as you do. They are using Love, Compassion, and Mercy as Jesus and God the Father did throughout Scriptures. I have tried to explain this to you before, but when you lose an argument you just stop posting to me. Funny you have done that before also. My favorites, and Gene you touched on this also, how you will not answer a question given to you and how someone quotes you a Scripture and you act as if it never happened. Well next time your in Neverland tell Peter Pan and Wendy we said, “Hi.”
Thanks once again for the laugh Kerwin I can always count on you.
Hi The truth
You say
“Read John 3:16-17, God did not send one of his sons, but his one and only Son. You want us to be like Jesus, because if he was not just a man, then your entire doctrine falls apart. You would not be able to become perfect and a god, as you want to be. You would have to admit that Jesus is God in the flesh, as Scriptures clearly say,.. ”So if Scripture says GOD WAS IN CHRIST[2Cor5] how do you read this?
Was God in God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2009,12:01) Hi The truth
You say
“Read John 3:16-17, God did not send one of his sons, but his one and only Son. You want us to be like Jesus, because if he was not just a man, then your entire doctrine falls apart. You would not be able to become perfect and a god, as you want to be. You would have to admit that Jesus is God in the flesh, as Scriptures clearly say,.. ”So if Scripture says GOD WAS IN CHRIST[2Cor5] how do you read this?
Was God in God?
Yes and no. God the Father is part the Godhood. Jesus, God in the flesh is part of the Godhood. The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhood. The Scriptures speak clearly about who Jesus is, not was but is. There are I believe the number is, over 20 references to who Jesus is. You and people like Kerwin use one. Hmmm….I think I will go along with the Scriptures not you two.I read all of 2 Corinthians chapter 5 and saw no where where it specifically said that, “GOD WAS IN CHRIST” as you would have it say. I did see where Paul says, “So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.” 2 Corinthians 5:16. Oh wait that is probably a typo or something. Since you and Kerwin both want Jesus to be a mere human on earth as us. My question is though do you do it for the same reason as him? Do you too believe you can become a god like Kerwin? I ask just because I do not know you like I do Kerwin. Jesus calls himself God in several different places in several different ways throughout Scripture. We even in Matthew Jesus telling the apostles of the Trinity. “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” – Matthew 28:19. Notice it is name not names. A Basic Grammar class shows the answer here. I hope this helps you. Peace and Love from our Lord and Savior Jesus.
Hi Thetruth.,
Godhood is a new one.
Have you started a new denomination?Acts 10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.If Jesus was God
was God with God?Did God anoint God with God??
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote If Jesus was God
was God with God?That is a contradiction within the Trinitarian christology concept that I had not considered previously. Never the Less the Trinitarian Christology concept is filled with such contradictions and yet some people hold to it. Since they have decided to embrace irrationality on the issue I do not really think they can be reasoned with until they decide to change. It is difficult to give up ideas that you have been conditioned with through your culture. I am not sure how difficult it is to give up those you have adopted later in life. Still I guess you have to try and hope for the best.
Kerwin You say it is difficult to give up ideas that you have conditioned with through our culture. Well then I must be an odd ball, because coming out of the Catholic Church, was no problem for me. Once I saw how Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian operated, I had no problem given it all up.
What I do have a problem with is that I cant fellowship with anybody right now. All are Trinitarian here. So sad. Even our Family.Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Cindy @ Mar. 06 2009,18:26) Kerwin You say it is difficult to give up ideas that you have conditioned with through our culture. Well then I must be an odd ball, because coming out of the Catholic Church, was no problem for me. Once I saw how Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian operated, I had no problem given it all up.
What I do have a problem with is that I cant fellowship with anybody right now. All are Trinitarian here. So sad. Even our Family.Peace and Love Irene
Where are we told that we cannot fellowship with other Christians (Unitarians, Trinitarians, Baptists, Methodists….)?I have never understood this line of reasoning, I'm sorry.
Love,
MandyCindy wrote:
Quote Once I saw how Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian operated, I had no problem given it all up.
I know very little about Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian so I am not familiar with what you speak of. I do find it strange that someone points to an individual that they consider a heretic to back up a tenet they believe is true.
You are an exception as far I have observed.
If words mean anything…..
Jesus is the Son of God (through conception with Mary), and he is the son of man (through the conception with Mary).
For we are not told that “Jesus” was the Son of God prior to being BORN the Son of God. I believe we deduce that Jesus (the Son of God) is the “Word”, or the “Light”, or the “spirit Son”, or an “angel” or, or, or…..but we are not clearly taught these things in the bible. We deduce them. Should we? Or should we go on what we know, which is, “sons” are conceived and born.
Love,
MandyHi Mandy,
I understand your concern. We don't find Jesus (the Son in the flesh) mentioned in the O.T. other than in prophecies foretold of Him. We ARE, though, told in the Bible that the “Son” existed before He became Jesus in the New Testament. Notice that these passages aren't saying these things about Jesus but about the “Son.” We can deduce from scriptures that the Son existed to lay the foundation of the world which we enjoy today and that by Him all things were created. Scriptures, even God tell us that the Son was there, just not as “Jesus.” He became Jesus later, still He was the Son of God beforehand, He had to have been for Him to have this said of Him.Heb 1:8-12
8 But of the Son He says,
“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”10 And,
“YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED.
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
NASUCol 1:13-17
1 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. 1
NASU
Jesus is not mentioned in these passages because Jesus wasn't who the Son was at that time.Blessings,
Kathi
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
