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Luke 16 the story of the rich man and the beggar lazarus..the chasm is the gulf that divides heaven from hell. The rich man wants Father Abraham to send Lazarus to dip his finger in water and to cool his tongue for he (the rich man) is in great torment. Father Abraham states that there is a great chasm between them so your piece on paradise and hell being in the same place is ridiculous. The Scriptures clearly state between them there is a great chasm. Why do you want to try to confuse people with lies? Anyone who can read clearly reads what it says here.
Luke 16:22-26 NIV
22″The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25″But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
Clearly they are not the same thing and the rich man has all his senses. He could see that Lazarus was being comforted while he was in torment. He can see paradise from Hell but he can't cross over to it nor can anyone from paradise cross over to help him.
That story is just a parable, not a true story. Its meant to teach a moral lesson. If you look above that scrip, jesus is talking to the pharisees. He said that he spoke to them in parables and that is what this is.
The moral, among others, was that jesus was going to die and rise butthe pharisees would still not believe.
jeff
Jeff…….I agree with you the story is a parable and is not to be taken literial as some do. You gave the right moral to the story. IMO
peace and love ………………………gene
Of course it is just a parable; how would Lazarus have made it into heaven before Jesus died, and paid for his sins? providing heaven is where he would have gone.
Georg
Gene: The entire bible is intended to be taken literally. Lazarus made it to heaven the same way Elijah, Abraham, Moses and all the others did. Good grief.
You can't pick and choose which portions of the bible suit you best to believe and discard the rest. It's all God breathed and inspired by the Holy Spirit. It's all true
Amille……….you could not be further from the truth is you think the entire bible is to be taken literally. Do you really think Eve ate of a literial fruit from a literal tree. Do you think a literial tree produces knowledge of good and evil. These are all symbolic terms us to portray something else. Go and look up the word used in the first part of Revelations where it say that He (GOD) (SIGNIFIED IT) you will find that means GOD symbolized it. In fact you can't understand much of the bible without understanding the symbolic language used , like in parables Jesus gave . Jesus said to eat His Flesh and Drink His Blood do you take that as literial or symbolic language , the word (EAT) means to take to your self the body of Jesus, not literally eat it. Amille you must under symbolic language to properly understand scriptures. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Jesus is showing that we will have all our senses. The rich man was conscious of where he was, his body because he was in great torment. You see here he has a body after death and can feel pleasure or pain. You will live forever with God or eternally separated from him.
Jesus gives a clear picture of what happens to a person after death. The rich man here had: Sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch, because he was in great torment and wanted cool water for his tongue so he knew to taste a drop of water would cool his tongue. He had his sight because he could see paradise from hell. He had conversation so he could hear, speak and even had memory because he recalled his brothers on earth.
He also recalled Lazarus by name, he could count because he had five brothers and remembered where they were. He had compassion because he didn't want his five brothers to be sent there. So he also knew emotion.
Abraham instructs him that between them was a great chasm that had been fixed. It's permanant. The rich man said no father Abraham but if someone goes from the dead they will repent. Well God had already sent Moses and the prophets and they wouldn't listen to them so why should they listen if he sent Lazarus. He sent Jesus and you people still don't listen.
amille………..it is symbolic language and teaches us that ther is a difference between judgments and while Lazarus, suffered while on earth, he now had it easy, but the rich man did not suffer on earth but is suffering now, but you assume that is a eternal state it is a permanent state is in error. It was needful that the rich man suffer too as did Lazarus while on earth. Even Jesus learned obedience by the things he suffered. Suffering is part of the experience GOD want us all to experience and we all do or will sooner or later. But to conclude that is a permanent State is not written there, that an assumption on you part. Ask yourself why would GOD keep a person around for ever like that, does he enjoy watching a person suffer forever, is that you conception of a LOVING and MERCIFUL GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and your………………………gene
Gene:
God is very clear in how we should live and behave in our lives that is why he came down in the flesh as Jesus and lived among men. Keep in mind Jesus was tempted 40 days and nights yet never sinned. The rich man was tempted to not help Lazarus and did choose to sin. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that God sends people to torment temorarily and nowhere does it mention purgatory which is what you describe. It is but once to die and then the judgement (Hebrews 9:27) and that judgement is permanant.
God is a God of second chances while we're yet alive here in the flesh upon the earth after that it's a done deal
amille……there is no such thing as a trinity GOD, Jesus was (NOT) GOD , that is not to say GOD was not in HIM. GOD can be (IN) anyone He choses to, as it says That God may be (ALL) and In ALL, and THROUGH ALL. GOD is SPIRIT Jesus is NOT, He is Flesh and BONE as He said He is. God was (IN) Christ reconciling the world to (HIMSELF) (THROUGH) JESUS. Jesus was no GOD MAN , He was a MAN who HAD GODS SPIRIT (INTELLECT) IN HIM>
Lazarus live in abject poverty and these circumstances cause Him to be HUMBLE, had He been Right He probably would have acted just like the rich man did. The Parable is illustrating that sufferings works HUMILITY, while riches can cause a hardness of HEART as in the case of the rich man. Tell me this, was it Lazarus's choice to live in abject poverty, or was it forced by life on him during his earthly life. It says He recieved these things in life, that wa shis lot as many do today also, they suffer in need all over the world, and some think these will just be tossed into an inferno fire because the just happened to have no heard the name of Jesus , not even once in their entire lives. It amazes How People speak for GOD the FATHER, and reserve his mercy only for themselves of course , there not like the rest of humanity you see. GOD will have mercy on (ALL) just as scripture Says. If he has to get tough to save a person He can and will, but be assured He can burn the evil out of a person. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
John 1:1-14
John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. (Jesus is the light of men) 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it. (darkness, that would be you)6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word God, JESUS CHRIST, Messiah, LOGOS) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Hi and welcome Am,
Men cannot accept the teaching Of Jesus in Lk16.
But you are right IMO.Not all awareness or discomfort relates to the body but to the soul too it seems
amile hi
To think that I or my neighbour could be in eternal suffering torment being burnt continously or suffering permanantly is unfair and not right, if an animal is suffering you put it out of its misery, no matter how vicious it was. Would you get a thrill from watching someone be burnt alive without dyeing ? I would if this description of hell were true, be trying to rescue the people there, not jumping aroun laughing somewhere.
God is love. Love though neighbour as thyself. Which part of this love dont people get???!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you love someone such as your child, you may punish them for their own wellbeing, theres a big big big difference there.
peace and LOVE karmarie
And then is judgment, and God is just, more just than most judges down here because God knows the real truth and the intentions of every heart! So then must be either the second DEATH meaning the end, or being part of Gods wonderfull kingdom, either way though is fair.
The waiting is probably the description of hell. Waiting in either our own peace or our own torment and guilt.
Karmarie: It is written. It is but once to die and then the judgement. That judgment is immediate. Once one dies here on earth, be that they were in Christ upon the earth they like the beggar go straight to Abrahams bosom. Abraham is the father of nations meaning God is Abraham in this case. The beggar went to heaven to be comforted by his father and the rich man was begging God to send the beggar to cool his tongue because he was in great torment.
Once we die the judgement is made as to where to send us. Heaven to be comforted (because we lived our lives in Christ upon the earth) or hell to pay for not living in Christ and accepting him as the Son of the Living God and Savior of the World and our lives.
Their will be two judgements after the Second Coming of Christ hence the end of the world.
The Great White Throne of Judgement where those who were not in Christ will be cast into the eternal lake of Fire
The Judgement seat of Christ is where Jesus is our Advocate and will reward us with Crowns which we who follow Christ upon the earth now and when we die will cast those crowns at the feet of Jesus because we know we are not worthy to receive them.
Hell is not a waiting place it is a place where sinners go to pay for their sins and then after the end of the world God will hold court and Jesus will be out advocate and reward us with crowns of glory and those who died in their sins will not receive crowns nor will they have an advocate to defend them. God will open the Book of Life and their names will not be written in that book. Therefore God will say Get thee hence for I know you not. The devil will be happy saying yeah, yeah, he/she did this and that and Jesus will not step forward in their defense because they didn't believe in him or ask him into their hearts. On the other hand When the Book of Life is opened and the devil steps forth to say he/she (who followed Christ in their lives) did this or that Jesus our Advocate will STEP forward and say he/she is under my blood. He/she is a follower a believer of mine and I washed his/her sins away and have written their names in the Lambs Book of Life see here there it is. They come with me and off we'll go into heave forever.
Hi amile
So have you been to hell to be able to state what it will be like? Jesus went down to hell to give them the good news that they hadnt heard. (I think thats how it went).
There are many symbolic things in the bible, and many meanings to things, anyone could find anything in it to defend their cause. Jesus likewise used the scriptures of the Jews to explain and fullfill because this is what or all they would listen to.
You can learn alot about the Lord through what God has created. Stand on a mountain and look at the beutifull river flowing out to the sea amongst the green valleys, with the warm blue sky above, see how much patience and forgivness God has!! Who could create what God has done? We must know so very little. Let God be your guide!
Stories of forgivness and saving warm our hearts, it just feels right, it is in harmony.
Gods instruction to us was to love him, and his son whom he sent, and to love one another! True love cant be caused out of fear of punishment, fear of suffering, nor out of want of a reward. Thats not real. Anyone could like me if I promised them a home and garden, but liking out of desire isnt love out of heart. I love my Lord because he first loved me, and I would do that even if there was nothing after death, even if this was all there was, despite my suffering.
Peace and love
karmariekarmarie: I'm not even going to begin to read all of what you wrote. It makes no sense. Are you a Christian? Do you follow Christ? Do you live by Gods Word, example and teachings? Or are you here just to criticize those who don't believe the same as you. I am a Christian and I do follow Christs teachings and I do read, study and believe the bible. I know how to research the context of scripture and no way did God breath and inspire an entire book based on symbolism. Jesus said what he meant and I believe him and nothing you all say will ever change my mind. I'm not an idiot though you may beg to differ and I know what Christ taught. Let me ask you this: What are you going to do when you stand before God the moment you draw your last breath and realize I was right? What then? Be a little too late then won't it? Maybe not, maybe Jesus will stand before you as you're drawing your last breath and give you that one last opportunity..I suggest you take it. Because if you don't, yes, it will be too late. Good night to you Sweetie
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