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Dennison,
Are you feeling ok? You seem to be on edge. Please don't let the devil lure you into error. I have been drawn into error when my guard is low because of stress, tiredness, or other factor of that type. It is not a pleasant experience. May God who is able to give you widom and strength grant you both.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 02 2011,21:37) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 02 2011,19:25) Hi Jack, What do you plan on doing if they 'forgive' the $7,500.oo debt,
keeping the $7,500.oo part of 'the loan' that was 'paid back'?Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
The congregation does not know that the pastor has paid back half the money. The donors told me this before they left the church. The board is recommending that the whole $15,000.00 be “forgiven.” This means that if the congregation votes to “forgive” it the board would have to give the $7,500.00 back to the pastor if they have not already.I have learned that one of the denominational heads whom the donors informed about their gift will be presiding over the meeting. So everything should go well.
The donors have left the church. But they are still official members and so I will be emailing the them today and will be asking them to attend the meeting to vote. If they attend and things don't go right it will be on THEIR shoulders to speak up.
KJ
Sounds like a fine plan. Whatever happens, in the end God's righteous plan will triumph.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 03 2011,07:50) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 01 2011,20:43) Then he should have written a personal check to the pastor and told him it was from an anonymous donor in the church.
JackWhen someone gives an “anonymous” gift of that size it can only be “anonymous” to some degree because of tax laws.
You mentioned you gave a huge gift to someone who then wrote a check for the amount to another.
Did the other pay taxs on it and did you claim it as a right off?
Someones name has to be attached to the gift for tax purposes and that is the law.
Any individual deposit or wthdrawel to or from a checking account over $10,000.00 is reported automatically to the IRS. But I am not sure about 501©(3) organiations and if the Banks report them also.
WJ
Keith,I did not get to write off my gift because it was not a charitable organization. I have an accountant who does my taxes because I am self employed. He does everything according to the tax codes. The person who received my gift was responsible for his own taxes. That's was not mine to police.
I said that the donors in this situation gave the money the wrong way. They probably were trying to get a tax write off but I never asked. But that does not matter as far as the intent of the giver. The treasurer received the money not as a gift to the church and so he had some missteps too. He should have told the donors to write the check to the pastor. But he counted it as a gift to the church and then made it a “loan” WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE DONORS.
SINCE WHEN DO CHURCHES MAKE LOANS?
If you have followed this whole thread you would have seen that I have said what you have said.
Jack
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2011,09:09) Hi Keith, I'm impressed with your knowledge of these things, and also that you are true to the words of Jesus when he said, “Give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar………..”
Many people consider it no big deal to cheat on their taxes. They apparently consider it a victimless crime. And many of those consider themselves “Christian”.
mike
What does cheating on taxes have to do with this subject?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 03 2011,10:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2011,17:09) Hi Keith, I'm impressed with your knowledge of these things, and also that you are true to the words of Jesus when he said, “Give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar………..”
Many people consider it no big deal to cheat on their taxes. They apparently consider it a victimless crime. And many of those consider themselves “Christian”.
mike
Thanks Mike.But I really do not know that much. I own my own buisness and have to deal with this kind of stuff, plus I had Pastored 2 Churches and know a little about 501c (3) laws.
Blessings Keith
Keith,I am self employed too. This is why I have an accountant do my taxes so everything is done legally. I don't understand why you and Mike have gotten off the intent of the donors here. Their intent was to give financial relief to the pastor for the expenses he incurred relocating across state lines to receive our call. He was already in the hole because the church in NC was small and could not pay much. The board wanted to call him as our pastor and so the donors helped out financially so the pastor could come.
The treasurer led the donors to believe that the pastor would receive the gift as a gift. But instead the board “loaned” him the money. Since when do churches make loans?
The pastor started paying the money back after he resigned. So the donors made some denominational heads aware of the whole situation and all of a sudden the board is recommending that the entire “loan” be “forgiven.”
Something smells fishy. Agree?
Jack
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 03 2011,16:15) Dennison, Are you feeling ok? You seem to be on edge. Please don't let the devil lure you into error. I have been drawn into error when my guard is low because of stress, tiredness, or other factor of that type. It is not a pleasant experience. May God who is able to give you widom and strength grant you both.
Kerwin,Dennison is anti-church and so this subject gives him a soap box. How some here made my concern into a fight is beyond me.
KJ
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 02 2011,14:47) Hi T8, If the church board refuses to do the right thing,
you very well may be right, the probably should all be 'fired'!
But this is NOT the issue here! The issue is should Jack expose the sin.
I did mention “If your brother sins…But regardless, I think we are on the same page here.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 03 2011,02:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2011,09:09) Hi Keith, I'm impressed with your knowledge of these things, and also that you are true to the words of Jesus when he said, “Give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar………..”
Many people consider it no big deal to cheat on their taxes. They apparently consider it a victimless crime. And many of those consider themselves “Christian”.
mike
What does cheating on taxes have to do with this subject?
Hey Jack,Keith and I are pointing out that if it was a loan to be paid back, the pastor did not have to claim it as income, nor claim that income on his taxes.
But if it does end up being a gift, he must pay taxes on it.
We didn't mean any disrespect to you or your pastor. We weren't implying any dishonesty on the pastor's part, for he has always been under the impression that it was a loan. It was just a side issue that we were discussing.
Don't forget to let us all know how it was resolved.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 06 2011,09:46) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 03 2011,02:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2011,09:09) Hi Keith, I'm impressed with your knowledge of these things, and also that you are true to the words of Jesus when he said, “Give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar………..”
Many people consider it no big deal to cheat on their taxes. They apparently consider it a victimless crime. And many of those consider themselves “Christian”.
mike
What does cheating on taxes have to do with this subject?
Hey Jack,Keith and I are pointing out that if it was a loan to be paid back, the pastor did not have to claim it as income, nor claim that income on his taxes.
But if it does end up being a gift, he must pay taxes on it.
We didn't mean any disrespect to you or your pastor. We weren't implying any dishonesty on the pastor's part, for he has always been under the impression that it was a loan. It was just a side issue that we were discussing.
Don't forget to let us all know how it was resolved.
mike
OkayJack
TO ALL,
The congregation voted overwhelmingly to “forgive” the so called loan. Someone called for the resignation of the treasurer but was told by the moderator that this is for another congregational meeting.
Anyway, I am both happy and relieved that righteousness was done.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 07 2011,09:03) TO ALL, The congregation voted overwhelmingly to “forgive” the so called loan. Someone called for the resignation of the treasurer but was told by the moderator that this is for another congregational meeting.
Anyway, I am both happy and relieved that righteousness was done.
KJ
JackSo are they going to pay him back the 7500.00?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 08 2011,01:38) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 07 2011,09:03) TO ALL, The congregation voted overwhelmingly to “forgive” the so called loan. Someone called for the resignation of the treasurer but was told by the moderator that this is for another congregational meeting.
Anyway, I am both happy and relieved that righteousness was done.
KJ
JackSo are they going to pay him back the 7500.00?
WJ
The congregation did not know that the pastor had paid half the “loan” back and the board didn't say anything about it. Only my wife and I knew that the pastor paid back half because the donors told us. The congregational heads knew all because I advised the donors beforehand to tell them which they did. All the board asked the congregation to do was to “forgive” the WHOLE amount. This means that they MUST give back the $7,500.00 that the pastor paid. The denominational heads were at the meeting. So the board is bound to follow through on all of it.So in the end the board made things right and I am pleased about it.
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 07 2011,10:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 08 2011,01:38) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 07 2011,09:03) TO ALL, The congregation voted overwhelmingly to “forgive” the so called loan. Someone called for the resignation of the treasurer but was told by the moderator that this is for another congregational meeting.
Anyway, I am both happy and relieved that righteousness was done.
KJ
JackSo are they going to pay him back the 7500.00?
WJ
The congregation did not know that the pastor had paid half the “loan” back and the board didn't say anything about it. Only my wife and I knew that the pastor paid back half because the donors told us. The congregational heads knew all because I advised the donors beforehand to tell them which they did. All the board asked the congregation to do was to “forgive” the WHOLE amount. This means that they MUST give back the $7,500.00 that the pastor paid. The denominational heads were at the meeting. So the board is bound to follow through on all of it.So in the end the board made things right and I am pleased about it.
Jack
JackYea except the congregation still seems to be in the dark. I suppose that is okay as long as the donor knows that he got all the money and that it was a loan that was forgiven which shouldn't be forgiven since it was his anyways…sheez what a mess.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 08 2011,02:29) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 07 2011,10:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 08 2011,01:38) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 07 2011,09:03) TO ALL, The congregation voted overwhelmingly to “forgive” the so called loan. Someone called for the resignation of the treasurer but was told by the moderator that this is for another congregational meeting.
Anyway, I am both happy and relieved that righteousness was done.
KJ
JackSo are they going to pay him back the 7500.00?
WJ
The congregation did not know that the pastor had paid half the “loan” back and the board didn't say anything about it. Only my wife and I knew that the pastor paid back half because the donors told us. The congregational heads knew all because I advised the donors beforehand to tell them which they did. All the board asked the congregation to do was to “forgive” the WHOLE amount. This means that they MUST give back the $7,500.00 that the pastor paid. The denominational heads were at the meeting. So the board is bound to follow through on all of it.So in the end the board made things right and I am pleased about it.
Jack
JackYea except the congregation still seems to be in the dark. I suppose that is okay as long as the donor knows that he got all the money and that it was a loan that was forgiven which shouldn't be forgiven since it was his anyways…sheez what a mess.
WJ
But the denominational heads know about it which in itself is chastisement.Jack
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 02 2011,07:20) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 02 2011,13:54) I Think God doesnt care about such things.
Its stupid, and totally centered around Man's goverment and politics.
SFyou are wrong,God as his eyes focused on the righteous ,but you are not a righteous person ,so misconduct is normal for you,
everyone works with his conscience and will be judge by it ,
Pierre
Pierre! Why do you do this? This is not the first time that you have judged another member here. Even though I don't believe SF theology, I find it wrong to judge. I said this to you before, let God do the judging, if He is wrong…..Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Mar. 08 2011,11:48) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 02 2011,07:20) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 02 2011,13:54) I Think God doesnt care about such things.
Its stupid, and totally centered around Man's goverment and politics.
SFyou are wrong,God as his eyes focused on the righteous ,but you are not a righteous person ,so misconduct is normal for you,
everyone works with his conscience and will be judge by it ,
Pierre
Pierre! Why do you do this? This is not the first time that you have judged another member here. Even though I don't believe SF theology, I find it wrong to judge. I said this to you before, let God do the judging, if He is wrong…..Peace Irene
Ireneforgive my English,but read what i say to what SF says
i do not think i judge him beside telling him that his thinking is wrong,
Pierre
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 08 2011,02:26) The congregation did not know that the pastor had paid half the “loan” back and the board didn't say anything about it. Only my wife and I knew that the pastor paid back half because the donors told us. The congregational heads knew all because I advised the donors beforehand to tell them which they did. All the board asked the congregation to do was to “forgive” the WHOLE amount. This means that they MUST give back the $7,500.00 that the pastor paid. The denominational heads were at the meeting. So the board is bound to follow through on all of it. So in the end the board made things right and I am pleased about it.
Jack
Great stuff.Pierre! This is what you said to SF, God focused on the righteous, but you are not a righteous person, so misconduct is normal for you.
you are wrong,God as his eyes focused on the righteous ,but you are not a righteous person ,so misconduct is normal for you, ( Quote)
That is not judging? karmaria thought so too….
Peace Ireneeveryone works with his conscience and will be judge by it ,
Hi Jack,
You never did tell us what denomination the church is that you go to?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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