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Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2010,20:00) Dennison, We actually do know that in general that the teachings of Scripture are taught on a background of the Jewish culture because that culture is based on scripture. According to the Jews you cannot have one without the other as their culture is about belief in God. There were a variety of different Jewish beliefs and we do not know which ones are the background of scripture except for certain evidence of scripture that points toward those beliefs. The teaching by Paul about the Third Heaven is one example of this.
I do admit I am not necessary sure how important knowing the correct teaching is in these case since they often do not seem pertenant to the good news of the Kingdome of Heaven.
So all Christians become Jews of a type in that they do the things of God and believe what Jews like Isaiah, Malachi, Moses, and many others also believe and those beliefs are Jewish.
Kerwin,I understand where your coming from, but all im saying is that we cannot expect anyone to hold that as absulote truth in referense to the subject.
that cannot hold as a warrant or evidence. Thats what im saying.
To respond.
I understand culture, its obvious, Jewish culture will affect teaching. but we have to understand the bible presents the scribes and jewish culture as hypocrites.The book of hebrews responds in such a way that it blends the OT and the NT as one book. How the scribes and pharasis had it all wrong. when they put importance in the wrong things and judge wrong, and even hypocrites.
Even the Jews were divided, between whether they believed in angels or not. the book of Job was not for the public, and was concealed for only poetic reading for pharasis within the temple.
All Christians are affected by the jews choices within history and make their culture part of ours.
But the Jewish culture exists for the Gentiles, and always has, it was never uniquely only for them. it was also for us, why do i say this? because God always had it in his heart to save the gentiles, and thats why he created a nation, a prophetic nation to save them.
God told them after there freedom in captivity in egypt that they are a holy nation, a prohpet within the world. There were to be the holy nation of the world to convert the gentiles, but Israel failed, He sent prophets, the killed the prophets, and even sent his son, yet they crucfied him, where now we have Jesus.
Back to the topic, my point is that stating the seven spirits of God are angels, is speculation according to holding the jewish culture has evidence.
we cannot hold truth that John wrote about the seven spirits of God, but really meant angels, according to his jewish culture, and we were suppose to magically figure that out.
the evidence of culture doesnt hold.
because the whole book is a prophecy and a mystery. to say that for one scripture i can hold that for all.
but its easily falsefied.
You can believe that, but its incorrect to hold it as truth.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 06 2010,10:44) To All………..SPIRIT (IS) INTELLECT, AND SPIRIT(S) ARE DISTINCT INTELLECT(S), GOD IS COMPOSED OF SEVEN DISTINCT INTELLECTS OR SPIRITS. it's just that simple, Spirits are (NOT) beings, but the Intellects (IN) the beings. They are expressed by (WORDS) and also transmitted by them. Jesus said, “THE WORDS I AM TELLING YOU (are) SPIRIT AND LIFE”, yes spirit is intellect and is the life of a begin, it is (IN) a being and that life is expressed by words and actions. Spirit is what produces Fruits or Works in a person, Mystery religion have made Spirit it self as a person “God the Spirit”, when in fact it is not a person, but what is (IN) a Person. That is why GOD can indwell Jesus and Us also because He (is) SPIRIT, and because He (IS) Spirit He (IS) life also. You have life in you because of Spirit in you and that Spirit produces the life you live as well as in everyone else's too. “You shall know them by their Fruit” because the Spirit (IN) us Produces the Fruits from itself and is seen though us, by what we say and do. Simple not complicated at all. peace and love to you all……………….gene
I believe this man is right.Quote (RokkaMan @ June 18 2010,20:27) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 06 2010,10:44) To All………..SPIRIT (IS) INTELLECT, AND SPIRIT(S) ARE DISTINCT INTELLECT(S), GOD IS COMPOSED OF SEVEN DISTINCT INTELLECTS OR SPIRITS. it's just that simple, Spirits are (NOT) beings, but the Intellects (IN) the beings. They are expressed by (WORDS) and also transmitted by them. Jesus said, “THE WORDS I AM TELLING YOU (are) SPIRIT AND LIFE”, yes spirit is intellect and is the life of a begin, it is (IN) a being and that life is expressed by words and actions. Spirit is what produces Fruits or Works in a person, Mystery religion have made Spirit it self as a person “God the Spirit”, when in fact it is not a person, but what is (IN) a Person. That is why GOD can indwell Jesus and Us also because He (is) SPIRIT, and because He (IS) Spirit He (IS) life also. You have life in you because of Spirit in you and that Spirit produces the life you live as well as in everyone else's too. “You shall know them by their Fruit” because the Spirit (IN) us Produces the Fruits from itself and is seen though us, by what we say and do. Simple not complicated at all. peace and love to you all……………….gene
I believe this man is right.
I liked his anaylsis also,
It could portray his spiritual personality.
God hates seven sins,
God have seven spirits of perfection,
sound pretty good,needs more meat though.
Dennison,
I actually have not claimed that the particular Jewish tenet that the seven eyes of God are angels is true since I tend to believe the Jews have a variety of interpretations on the subject just like their decendants who call themselfs Christian and I am not sure which is true. On the other hand some current ideas about the seven spirits of God are way off base and have no real support but in the minds of those who choose to hold them.
Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2010,21:29) Dennison, I actually have not claimed that the particular Jewish tenet that the seven eyes of God are angels is true since I tend to believe the Jews have a variety of interpretations on the subject just like their decendants who call themselfs Christian and I am not sure which is true. On the other hand some current ideas about the seven spirits of God are way off base and have no real support but in the minds of those who choose to hold them.
Kerwin,sorrry its too late at night, my mind is extremely tired.
maybe im confusing your point or not idk. correct me if im wrong did you not claim that the seven angels were the achrangels going to and fro the earth?How are the current ideas off based?
What are the seven spirits of God?scripturaly speaking?
Are they God or not?
To All…………..God is composed of seven destinct Spirits (intellects) these are the eyes of GOD they compose His perceptions and Jesus now has the seven eyes or Spirits On HIM with seven horns (powers) as shown in revelation> He will rule the earth and set up the kingdom of God with them, therefore it is said Thy Kingdom O God is an everlasting Kingdom. It is GOD working (through) Jesus because He has installed Jesus as King for a thousand Years, and after that Jesus will turn the kingdom over to GOD alone and he himself will become subject to GOD thats for the purpose, that GOD may be (ALL) and In (ALL). Only One GOD who empowers His creation and He is composed of Seven Distinct Spirits (intellects) these are called the seven spirits of GOD they are his eyes he perceives all thing with they go to and fro through out all the earth. As a result GOD is omnipresent, He even knows when a sparrow loses its spirit and dies , because all spirit come from and returns to GOD. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………..gene
Dennison,
I origionally advanced that as a possibility but you came in later while I was just discussing the possibility. I am personally not sure at this point and I see no reason why it is an issue that one must be sure of or that different students of Jesus cannot legitimately hold different views of and still be in tune on the good new of the comming of the kingdom of heaven.
Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2010,15:05) Dennison, I origionally advanced that as a possibility but you came in later while I was just discussing the possibility. I am personally not sure at this point and I see no reason why it is an issue that one must be sure of or that different students of Jesus cannot legitimately hold different views of and still be in tune on the good new of the comming of the kingdom of heaven.
Kerwin,Let me rewind a bit, i made a post all,
than you commented back on that with more detail about that points of the angels.Sir, everyone has a diffrent point of view or perpective, i didnt say you cuoldnt have your opinion, but biblicaly i cant hold that as truth.
i never said you werent in tune.
Im asking, what are the seven spirits of God.
Are the Seven spirits God or not.ill wait for you answer.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2010,00:48) Quote (t8 @ June 17 2010,16:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 08 2010,01:41) To ALL…….The basic Problem here is Most do not even know what SPIRIT IS. So we get all these speculations and confusions about it. SPIRIT is in SIMPLEST TERMS (INTELLECT) and there are Many. There is clean and unclean spirits (intellects) there are Evil and Good Spirits (intellects) there is the Spirit (intellect) of Peace, there is Holy Spirit (special intellects of God). The Spirit (intellect) of TRUTH, which is considered the earnest Gift from GOD to US in order for us to Perceive what is true or not , this intellect of truth or Spirit both accuses us and defends us, the Spirit (intellect) of truth is crucial in Changing us in our minds to think more like GOD Thinks, it changes our perceptions of things, it is the anchor of the soul. Without it we are like ships without a rudder to guide it. IMO peace and love to you all……………..gene
Gene, are you looking forward to an intellectual body?I am looking forward to a spiritual one.
T8…….> I sure am looking forward to a body like the one Jesus was raised with and i sure hope I have (Spirit) Intellect in it to as Jesus does in His raised Body . He is a complete (SOUL) a Body with Spirit (INTELLECT) in it. That is good enough for me brother. The BODIES we will have in the future will be different in that the Spirit of Life will be active working in them , they will be Spirit generated and never die because we will have been given to eat from the tree of life . It says that as we have born the IMAGE of the Earthly we shall bare the image of the Heavenly , there is an earthly body (which we have now) and there is a Heavenly body we will recieve. But both are (BODIES) , no difference except one can die and the other can not die. Nowhere does scripture say Jesus exchanged His resurected Body for a spirit body , But Jesus said a spirit does (NOT) have flesh and bone as you see I have. The only one who exists as a begin without a body is GOD , even angles have bodies of some kind they can be seen, touched and eat, Manna was called angles food, Jesus went through a door with his resurrected Body right, appeared and disappeared , went up into heave with it also and is coming back the same way it says.The concept of a body being Spirit is wrong IMO, Spirit is what is (IN) a Body, Body + Spirit = a SOUL, one can not exist with out the other in a person or being. God must resurrect us a BODY and ADD Spirit back into it or we would parish for ever. A resurrection is vital for our future existence if we die before Jesus comes. IMO
peace and love to you and your………………………gene
Hi Gene,You have some good points.
We have our Eternal Spirit that will be given a new, incorruptible body. We will appear as Christ is….
The Bible says that God is spirit and therefore is not a wind or breath or intellect but a physical entity, although not a physical body.
Wind, breath and intellect are results of an object causing the action to occur. i.e. we have intellect because we have a brain or breath because we have a mouth and respiratory system, etc.
Regarding “good” and “evil” those are adjectives within the realm of Knowledge. ONE Knowlegde consists of Good and Evil. Ironically, Adam and Eve were “innocents” and didn't have Knowledge until they ate of the tree of knowledge (good and evil).
My dogs are similar in that they don't know anything as evil until I tell them that it was “Bad”. They are not ashamed of being naked either and display their genitals. What a wonderful world it was….
It sounds like you believe that the Holy Spirit is an effect of God and not a separate essence/entity of her own and is at the mercy of God, no?
Intellect is the function of the brain to think and have ideas so your are right,,,,there are many. However, in of itself, intellect is neither good nor evil…which are outward manifestations of actions.
If, as you claim about there being Good and Evil Spirits, then you are saying that God created Good Spirits and Evil Spirits versus just plain Spirits (and they in turn create good and evil acts).
Gene, I hear and feel your frustrations and confusions about this subject. We often apply the same meaning to words like soul and spirit, too, which only furthers the confusion. I learned the difference when I tried witnessing in Spanish and found out the hard way, being corrected. They have a soul that is within a person's being and there is the Eternal Spirit that departs our physical body and lives on. And you mentioning that brought back memories.
If Jesus has a spirit body when he returns how will the see the holes in his hands and feet? Why will we need wedding clothes? Why will there be a feast because by Jesus' admission a spirit does not eat.
Actually our spirits will be raised and then we will be clothed with a body, not vice versa.
Have a blessed day, Gene.
David
Quote (Ed J @ June 12 2010,01:59) Hi Everybody, Crossing the bridge between two views…“Trinitarian” and “non-Trinitarian”.
This can “only” be done with God(HolySpirit) resident on the inside of the believer.Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable(unchangeable) things, in which it is impossible for God to lie!,
we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
2Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself!Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be FIVE (shown below) in one house (Eph.2:20-22) divided,
three(Trinitarians) against two(non-Trinitarians), and two(non-Trinitarians) against three(Trinitarians).2) The non-Trinitarians view GOD this way….
YHVH GOD is One=151………GOD! (Deut.6:4 / Eph.4:6)LORD of Hosts=151………….including Jesus and the rest of us!
The AKJV Bible uses this phrase repeatedly!3) And the Trinitarians view GOD this way…
The LORD JEHOVAH=151 (Isaiah 12:2, 26:4)
Jesus Christ=151
HolySpirit=151
God existing as “The Trinity” above and out of reach.
Proof of this Fivefold House of God is illustrated using Hebrew, Greek, and the AKJV Bible…The Hebrew word [אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm(Genesis 1:1) carries the meanings of both “God in the plural” and “The Mighty God”.
This can be better illustrated using both the English AKJV Bible’s rendering of JEHOVAH and the Greek’s word for “GOD”.There are five words for “God” the Greek (all are pronounced Thēôs); they are…
Four (4) of these are “plural” forms of the word; only one (1) is used in “singular” form.1) θεος
2) θεου
3) θεω
4) θεον5) θεε
The AKJV Bible has uses the name JEHOVAH four (4) times and JAH (1) once!
JEHOVAH is also used in three (3) phrases (illustrating a trinity)1) JEHOVAH (Exodus 6:3)………..(Exodus 17:15)
2) JEHOVAH (Psalm 83:18)……….(Gen.22:14)
3) JEHOVAH (Isaiah 12:2)………..(Judges 6:24)
4) JEHOVAH (Isaiah 26:4)………..….LORD of Hosts5) JAH (Psalm 68:4)……………………used only “once”!
“HolyCity“
יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
1) God The Father=117 (Representing God's Name and title GOD: יהוה האלהים)
2) Jesus=74 (God's Son's English Name: “Joshua”)
3) HolySpirit=151 (“The word”: structure of “GOD” indwelling in us believers!)
4) YHVH=63 (God's Name: יהוה transliterated into English)“HolyCityBibleCode” documents how “The God Numbers”=151 integrate with the AKJV Bible.
LOOK AT THE UNITY!
GOD’s NAME (יהוה) IS WRITTEN EXACTLY 6823 times in the Hebrew Masoretic Texts. See how
The Gematria Value OF Ιησους Χριστоς=2368 Ē-Ā-Soos Chrĭstŏs (Jesus Christ in Greek)
resembles the number of times God’s Name is used in the Hebrew Masoretic Texts.6823 is the 877th prime number in a long list of primes starting with two (2).
Now this might not seem significant until you realize that the number 877
is the 151st prime number. This number 151 shows “Unity” in Spirit.YHVH GOD is ONE=151 (Deut.6:4 / Eph.4:6)
1) The LORD JEHOVAH=151 (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4) (Old “Testament”=117)
2) LORD of Hosts=151…(AKJV Bible)…His Hosts=117: Jesus and ALL of His brethren! (Rev.11:15)
3) Holy Spirit=151 (“The word” structure of “GOD”: Old and New “Testament”=117)
4) Jesus Christ=151 (The “Testator”=151) (Hebrews 9:16-17) (New “Testament”=117)The wall(Eph.2:14), Jesus died to abolish, is illustrate as a dichotomy: [6823] and [2368].
These points are all explained in great detail in “HolyCityBibleCode”, the free e-book.God bless
Ed J (AKJV 22:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi David,Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be FIVE in one house
divided, three against two, and two against three. (Eph.2:19-22)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ June 20 2010,02:27) Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2010,15:05) Dennison, I origionally advanced that as a possibility but you came in later while I was just discussing the possibility. I am personally not sure at this point and I see no reason why it is an issue that one must be sure of or that different students of Jesus cannot legitimately hold different views of and still be in tune on the good new of the comming of the kingdom of heaven.
Kerwin,Let me rewind a bit, i made a post all,
than you commented back on that with more detail about that points of the angels.Sir, everyone has a diffrent point of view or perpective, i didnt say you cuoldnt have your opinion, but biblicaly i cant hold that as truth.
i never said you werent in tune.
Im asking, what are the seven spirits of God.
Are the Seven spirits God or not.ill wait for you answer.
Dear SF,7 Spirits of Holy Spirit (God) Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of YHVH
Fear of YHVH
Wisdom
Understanding
Counsel
Strength
KnowledgeTo All………Spirit simply put (IS) Intellect. Intellects are types of Knowledge and are divided up into Good and Evil , or clean and unclean , They can not die it is impossible for Spirit or intellect to die, it just simply can leave us and at our death (IT) leaves us as goes back where it came from in the first place (GOD). A person who has Spirit (intellect) in him can die and he is no longer a living Soul and will never again exist unless GOD resurrects up a Body for Him and adds Spirit back into it and then He will ONCE MORE be a (LIVING SOUL). It is crucial that we be (RESURRECTED) and given (NEW BODIES) to continue to live again. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………gene
Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,16:44) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 20 2010,02:27) Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2010,15:05) Dennison, I origionally advanced that as a possibility but you came in later while I was just discussing the possibility. I am personally not sure at this point and I see no reason why it is an issue that one must be sure of or that different students of Jesus cannot legitimately hold different views of and still be in tune on the good new of the comming of the kingdom of heaven.
Kerwin,Let me rewind a bit, i made a post all,
than you commented back on that with more detail about that points of the angels.Sir, everyone has a diffrent point of view or perpective, i didnt say you cuoldnt have your opinion, but biblicaly i cant hold that as truth.
i never said you werent in tune.
Im asking, what are the seven spirits of God.
Are the Seven spirits God or not.ill wait for you answer.
Dear SF,7 Spirits of Holy Spirit (God) Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of YHVH
Fear of YHVH
Wisdom
Understanding
Counsel
Strength
Knowledge
really? explain thatQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 01 2010,16:35) Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,16:44) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 20 2010,02:27) Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2010,15:05) Dennison, I origionally advanced that as a possibility but you came in later while I was just discussing the possibility. I am personally not sure at this point and I see no reason why it is an issue that one must be sure of or that different students of Jesus cannot legitimately hold different views of and still be in tune on the good new of the comming of the kingdom of heaven.
Kerwin,Let me rewind a bit, i made a post all,
than you commented back on that with more detail about that points of the angels.Sir, everyone has a diffrent point of view or perpective, i didnt say you cuoldnt have your opinion, but biblicaly i cant hold that as truth.
i never said you werent in tune.
Im asking, what are the seven spirits of God.
Are the Seven spirits God or not.ill wait for you answer.
Dear SF,7 Spirits of Holy Spirit (God) Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of YHVH
Fear of YHVH
Wisdom
Understanding
Counsel
Strength
Knowledge
really? explain that
Hi SF,Prob.9:1 Wisdom has built her house,
she hath hewn out her seven pillars:God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 01 2010,11:36) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 01 2010,16:35) Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,16:44) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 20 2010,02:27) Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2010,15:05) Dennison, I origionally advanced that as a possibility but you came in later while I was just discussing the possibility. I am personally not sure at this point and I see no reason why it is an issue that one must be sure of or that different students of Jesus cannot legitimately hold different views of and still be in tune on the good new of the comming of the kingdom of heaven.
Kerwin,Let me rewind a bit, i made a post all,
than you commented back on that with more detail about that points of the angels.Sir, everyone has a diffrent point of view or perpective, i didnt say you cuoldnt have your opinion, but biblicaly i cant hold that as truth.
i never said you werent in tune.
Im asking, what are the seven spirits of God.
Are the Seven spirits God or not.ill wait for you answer.
Dear SF,7 Spirits of Holy Spirit (God) Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of YHVH
Fear of YHVH
Wisdom
Understanding
Counsel
Strength
Knowledge
really? explain that
Hi SF,Prob.9:1 Wisdom has built her house,
she hath hewn out her seven pillars:God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
thats not what i asked for, i asked for simply why is God asummingly those things.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 02 2010,00:02) To All………Spirit simply put (IS) Intellect. Intellects are types of Knowledge and are divided up into Good and Evil , or clean and unclean , They can not die it is impossible for Spirit or intellect to die, it just simply can leave us and at our death (IT) leaves us as goes back where it came from in the first place (GOD). A person who has Spirit (intellect) in him can die and he is no longer a living Soul and will never again exist unless GOD resurrects up a Body for Him and adds Spirit back into it and then He will ONCE MORE be a (LIVING SOUL). It is crucial that we be (RESURRECTED) and given (NEW BODIES) to continue to live again. IMO peace and love to you all………………………gene
Hi Gene,Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment
So God is going to resurrect us to a judgment.
Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
If we no longer exist, who is eagerly awaiting Jesus?
He who has Jesus HAS eternal life. Not will be given but already has.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
If no one is going to exist what wrath is going to abide on those that do not obey the son?
How do you punish an “intellect”?
I don't know where you are getting your beliefs about spirit, but it doesn't seem from the Bile.
1 Joh 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy (Spirit) One is understanding.
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