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Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,23:15) Quote david i would believe you ,because that would make Michael the only archangel,and being prince make sence.
but ;Da 10:13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me
IT SAYS ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES.;;
and we know that there is no greather name in the heaven than Christ,and that he is the only begotten son of God,
for those reasons I would disagree with you.
Pierre
I know pierre. That is certainly evidence that suggests pointing away from the Michael/Jesus belief. In my view, there are a couple reasons against, but stronger reasons for. This is not one of my primary beliefs and it is not something that we discuss a lot. It is something others always bring up.
Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,16:18) Quote Hi David, “Two” examples using Scripture will suffice; do you have any? (Matt.18:16)
There is no scipture that says obama is an american, but logically and legally, he must be.
Some things I believe just because they are logical.Quote He being over the angels does not mean he can not be an angel any more than Obama being over americans does not mean Obama is not an American. You do get this, right?
Or do you really not?
Hi David,Heb.2:5 says that God did NOT put the world to come under any Angel.
What is so difficult about that for 'you' to understand; David?Instead you try to rationalize a JW fallacy using philosophy; why?
Col.2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the
rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,23:18) Quote Hi David, “Two” examples using Scripture will suffice; do you have any? (Matt.18:16)
There is no scipture that says obama is an american, but logically and legally, he must be.
Some things I believe just because they are logical.Quote He being over the angels does not mean he can not be an angel any more than Obama being over americans does not mean Obama is not an American. You do get this, right?
Or do you really not?
Davidall in heaven suppose to be angel material(spirits,or all americain like your example),but some are position as messengers,some are cherub,some are archangels,we know that the archangels are the closes to God and there is more than one,
but Christ is not an archangel,because he is the word of God first born of all creation,that is his name ,his position ,the son of God and sit on the throne with God, and Michael is an archangel in position and his name is Michael,and he is not the only one.and they are not sitting on the throne of God.
those are some of my reasons to say no to Michael be Jesus
Pierre
For Ed's post above:
It says that it wasn't to “angels” that he subjected the world. It doesn't say what you believe it does.
In our little illustration that you don't understand or won't acknowledge, it would be like the white house saying that America is not lead by “Americans.” (meaning, it is lead by the president, one american.)
You misrepresent what the Bible actually says.
Please start quoting actual scripture.
Quote Heb.2:5 says that God did NOT put the world to come under any Angel.
What is so difficult about that for 'you' to understand; David?–ed
we know that the archangels are the closes to God and there is more than one,
–pierre
arch [chief] angel [messenger/angel]
Does it seem odd to you that there are more than one “arch” angel?
The Bible never mentions arch angel in plural.Pierre, if you look at what others believe, one group believes that Jesus is the arch angel meaning “chief [of the] angels.”
Nothing anywhere in scripture goes against that.
Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,23:56) Pierre, if you look at what others believe, one group believes that Jesus is the arch angel meaning “chief [of the] angels.” Nothing anywhere in scripture goes against that.
davidwhat is cherub mean?
but ;Da 10:13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me ==================
see it says one of;;;;the chief princes
it looks more that there are managers placed by God to look after us all since Satan can not be trusted and the will of God as to be .no one can stop it.
Pierre
Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,16:52) For Ed's post above: It says that it wasn't to “angels” that he subjected the world. It doesn't say what you believe it does.
In our little illustration that you don't understand or won't acknowledge, it would be like the white house saying that America is not lead by “Americans.” (meaning, it is lead by the president, one american.)
You misrepresent what the Bible actually says.
Please start quoting actual scripture.
Quote Heb.2:5 says that God did NOT put the world to come under any Angel.
What is so difficult about that for 'you' to understand; David?–ed
Hi David,THE WORLD TO COME, The world to come, my friend!
OK; PROOF that Jesus is “NOT” Michael the Archangel…
“For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou(יהוה) art mindful of him?
or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels;
thou crownedst him with glory and honor, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou(יהוה YÄ-hä-vā) hast put all things in subjection under (יהשוע YÄ-shü-ă)his feet.
For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.” (Heb.2:5-8)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,16:56) Pierre, if you look at what others believe, one group believes that Jesus is the arch angel meaning “chief [of the] angels.” Nothing anywhere in scripture goes against that.
Hi David,Did you not see my last Post?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ………..Slight misquote, it says GOD has Put ALL THING UNDER HIM “MANS” FEET, NOT JESUS' EXCEPT AS HE is PERTAINS TO “MAN” BEING A SON OF MAN also. Jesus is Just the First from Man to gain that position many will also gain it. Go to genesis and it will tell you GOD put all thing under mans feet or control there to. NO ANGLE HAS BEEN GIVEN THAT POSITION, in fact we are to JUDGE angels scripture says. So if Jesus is an Angel as Davis and the JW'S think are we to judge him also? It plainly says God has not subject any of the the world to come to any angel, only Mankind. IMO
peace and lvoe…………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 24 2010,10:56) EDJ………..Slight misquote, it says GOD has Put ALL THING UNDER HIM “MANS” FEET, NOT JESUS' EXCEPT AS HE is PERTAINS TO “MAN” BEING A SON OF MAN also. Jesus is Just the First from Man to gain that position many will also gain it. Go to genesis and it will tell you GOD put all thing under mans feet or control there to. NO ANGLE HAS BEEN GIVEN THAT POSITION, in fact we are to JUDGE angels scripture says. So if Jesus is an Angel as Davis and the JW'S think are we to judge him also? It plainly says God has not subject any of the the world to come to any angel, only Mankind. IMO peace and lvoe…………………………………….gene
Hi Gene,Then you agree: “JEHOVAH GOD” alone is “OUR KING”!
Heb.13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
John 6:16 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him
by force, to make him a king, he(Jesus) departed again into a mountain himself alone.1Samuel 12:19 And all the people said unto Samuel, Pray for thy servants unto the LORD thy God,
that we die not: for we have added unto all our sins this evil, to ask us a king. (1Samuel 8:7)
they have rejected me(YHVH). that I(HolySpirit) should not reign (as KING) over them.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Jude 1:9-Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Wouldnt this mean, that Michael is Not over satan, when it comes to authority??Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 24 2010,13:30) Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,16:56) Pierre, if you look at what others believe,
one group believes that Jesus is the arch angel meaning “chief [of the] angels.”Nothing anywhere in scripture goes against that.
Jude 1:9-Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Wouldnt this mean, that Michael is Not over satan, when it comes to authority??
Hi Dennision,Your bible verse goes against this JW fallacy!
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them,
saying, All power is given unto me(Christ) in heaven and in earth.
All power is derived from “The LORD JEHOVAH”! (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2010,07:49) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 24 2010,13:30) Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,16:56) Pierre, if you look at what others believe,
one group believes that Jesus is the arch angel meaning “chief [of the] angels.”Nothing anywhere in scripture goes against that.
Jude 1:9-Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Wouldnt this mean, that Michael is Not over satan, when it comes to authority??
Hi Dennision,Your bible verse goes against this JW fallacy!
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them,
saying, All power is given unto me(Christ) in heaven and in earth.
All power is derived from “The LORD JEHOVAH”! (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Well exactly. Jesus is OVER the angels, therefore what dispute of authority is needed, if the devil should simply obey.Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,23:56) Pierre, if you look at what others believe, one group believes that Jesus is the arch angel meaning “chief [of the] angels.” Nothing anywhere in scripture goes against that.
Davidthanks ,for;if you look at what others believe, one group believes that Jesus is the arch angel meaning “chief [of the] angels
it is like you ask me to follow mens teachings,non??
arch = chief does not change the fact that they are many archangels; and Michael has to be one of them attached to Gods people that's all
Christ is not only attached to Gods people but to all of creation.
Pierre
hello dirtyknections,
Can you just say how you come to that conclusion – I always get stuck on this one .
if you got it sorted, then tell us all please. no, really, please…this subject has been going round and round for eternity, it seems…
Quote (Astaria @ Dec. 31 2010,16:12) hello dirtyknections, Can you just say how you come to that conclusion – I always get stuck on this one .
if you got it sorted, then tell us all please. no, really, please…this subject has been going round and round for eternity, it seems…
I do not believe Jesus=MichaelI was actually laughing at how far beyond scripture the JW Org will go…
Hi Astaria,
Welcome to Heaven.net!
I think the JW's come up with that based on Rev.12:7-9 and 1Thess 4:16-17.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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