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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 01 2008,14:12) Hi CO,
There is one eternal gospel.
Nick.
“eternal gospel”. Show scripture saying that please.Blessings.
Hi,
CO does not accept any scripture as truth unless it is from the narrow and fussy concordant bible.
Paul is the outstanding teacher of God's wisdom, but one with Christ and his brothers.Nick……….Where did Chosenone , say he did not accept that truth, I don't recall him ever saying that, You may be tweeking the truth to meet you personal feelings about Chosenone. IMO
gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,14:32) Hi,
The primary mission of Christ Jesus was to preach the kingdom of God to the Jews. Much of what he also said was explaining to them the meaning and relevance of the OT Law.It was Peter and Paul and the apostles who have explained to gentiles like us the detail of how these teachings apply in our lives.
Those who would reject Paul's teachings risk losing all as we are not Jews and need his help to grasp the deeper things.
Hi NickSo, does a Jew need to listen to Paul even if he/she is living amongst the Gentiles?
Nick, that wasnt a trick question or anything, im just meaning, im half Jewish, half Gentile yet I cant understand Pauls teachings and prefer just the teachings of Jesus, yet you say if Pauls teachings are rejected, I will be too. But I thought Jesus said quite simply that if any deny him (Jesus) he will also deny that person. Theres no mention of Paul there, and I think its two different things to; dislike and call him things like the false prophet etc, or to just simply not understand his writtings but respect him still.
So, am I doomed unless I read and understand the books of Paul?
Im really getting quite stuck on all of this.Hi KM,
Seek first the kingdom of God and then the wisdom God gave Paul will come alive for you.
If you are reborn into Christ, of water and the Spirit then you will not be half of anything but all of God's.Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 29 2009,14:37) Good answer, thanks.
Good answer?I know you're just being polite.
Georg
Quote (pythagorus @ June 29 2008,12:04) Hi..and what are you then…spouting selected nonsense and fantsy. Were you there?….did you hear?…if you heard did you listen?…The answer is that you are playing mind games, fiddling frenziedly with a new testament rubix cube. You seem to feel that you have in front of “the book of the dead” pertinent to our time. The astounding thing is that you all know so much about prattle but very little about the reality of life. Jesus never referred, according to the supposed history you call the 'new testament' to any “whore of Babylon”….if you had any knowledge of what we call “Jews”, in Babylon you'd know that they held great power and were legion.
This, deliberately distasteful perhaps expression came from another source altogether. If there are any or were any “whores of Babylon”it is “ergo” less likely it is the Pope in Rome…irrespective of the Christian Church's political aspirations manipulations and and mass murder over centuries. I might add that in real life there are far more dangerous and evill people than whores…only a male dominated sect would use such a word.
Not withstanding that, that same group of “whores” produced the testament you are using to condemn it and on which you base your arguments. You and those like you, preening themselves on educating the world through biblical interpretations and remembering your lines, are the empty vessels of which Jesus spoke, the sounding brass…it fits well.
Like the Jewish rabbis and high priests you use what you purport to be knowledge to elevate yourselves. Like amateur rabbis you put on a great show of self illumination through “fierce debate”….as though you hold some key to knowledge over and above others.
I quote no one, I merely observe. I also try to protect what is the truth as seen daily around us from the corrupting influence of zealots
When directing religious traffic towards Paul as the mastermind you might read and learn of Paul's highly disputed role in the church's founding.That the church bases itself on Paul is no guarantee of correctness, the church, wherever it was had people easily as intelligent in logic as we are today but as here…some were obsessed with one doctrine or another….eventuating in the Nicean creed and its own diaspora. Of all rational thinking the Bogomils, the Cathars some say they became, thought most rationally.
You might also learn that the Magdalen, the companion of Jesus, was the most knowledgeable of all. She was therefor relegated to being the “saved” harlot, not as worthy as the dopes who followed Jesus around…
After a few years of supposedly being with him…whatever that actually means in “preaching time” is anyone's guess….they were still asking questions according to the NT about matters which the drover's dog would have cottened onto. This was to highlight an “enlightenment”when …”overshadowed by the paraclete” and “taking courage” they preached in “tongues” (sic).
The fact is that the new Testament tells a loose story, the dates are wrong…Jesus for example was not 12 but 19 when he back chatted his mother after disappearing for a few days…or he'd have richly deserved a smack across the mouth..instead that piece of ignorance on his part (so said) is turned into some source of wonderment.
Paul and his purported conversion on the road to Damascus might well be true, but might equally be just a good story. If the NT was, again “the word of god” it would be clear and consistent. It is neither and involves apocrophy and dissention.
The brilliance of the figure called Jesus is so evident however I suggest he would be mightily jacked-off about the sounding brass interpreting the interpretations of what he said which was then put to political use.
Another example is the confusion of the Marys, the role of the Magdalen, the signs that more was a foot than was evident have been gleaned over years of discovery however certain facts do seem on the verge of changing a whole view without changing “salvation”…
The fraud alleged to have happened in dating the shroud, for example, was to pretend it was from the middle ages and not from the time of Jesus. This took place because the shroud indicates that the corpse was still bleeding…and thus still alive.
What narrow-minded bible bashers quoting chapter and verse and hurling accusations about whores and such like, seem not have the wit to comprehend is that whether Jesus died or not, was married or not is utterly irrelevant to salvation, if such need as salvation exists.
Better you get on with your own life and spend more time in personal reflection and looking at the real world…as I am trying to encourage us all do here, rather than to be posing as spokesmen and women for 'god' and Jesus through a 'catholic' , by origin, bible …..Experts utterly confused and confusing others by arguing the toss about something you generated from it without even the tradition and access to documentation which Catholicism has.
I don't argue that Catholicism is right or wrong, merely how arrogant it is of hundreds of 'Johnny come lately's to beat this group with its own stick and referring to it as “the whore of babylon”…the well known JW phrase.
The world is a mess because of the hypocrisy and brutality of men claiming to be inspired by 'god' manipulating murdering raping and pillaging and then proseltysing as though this is “the way”. This disguised fuedal system is called “democracy” and it's bleating about goodness and justice is directly the opposite of what is done in practice. .
Jesus' message can be summed in a paragraph, it doesn't require self styled experts in religious tracts anaysing it to death because it is no more than edited reports and additions. Get on with life and teach by humble, unintended, good example, not by missionary zealotry as though somehow you represent “The Ancient Order of the Truths of Jesus”.
If you can't help yourself, are beyond self control when it gets to religion, you just are driven to keep spouting chapter and verse and are too obsessed to simply display goodness in your own life, please try to teach the simple truths not try to use the testaments, the epistles and letters, as a battering ram.
The best thing, in my view, is to put down this NT book and all your other “empowerment tools” and leave them where they lie…Instead, look around and see how you can help people with what they need…not what you need….and in doing so, living the life of the Christ. As I struggle for example under the weight of accumulation I realise more how simplicity is not a mental death sentence and that I should be sharing more, what I have worked so hard to get…for in not worshipping money, I should not substitute something money has bought and use it as a security blanket.
Going back to Jesus…Remember what he is reported to have said of the Jewish man at prayer “thank the lord I am not like the others” and recall the tail of the widow's mite. Much of importance in living life well..is in those short tales.
If I can make a suggestion in closing my objection……get on with your own business and salvation and leave others alone so as not to be as confused and arrogant as bible bashers are but instead as the catholic service ends these days “let us go…..to love and serve the Lord” .
The Lord in Christianity, by the way, is not “god”
Shalom
Yeah, sometimes I feel like talking like this; it don't matter!
They get beaten up with truth so many times; it don't hurt anymore. But I bet ye it made you feel good to let it all out, didn't it
?Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 29 2009,16:50) Hi Georg,
The word of God is sown among thorns at times.
and that was in regards to which post?Anti-Trinitarianism and Trinitarianism are one in the same.
The only difference is the understaning or lack of.
The situation is like seeing the cup as half full or half empty, when in reality the cup is completely full…half water and half air.
YHWH didn't come from Jesus, Jesus came from YHWH.
Jesus acted on behalf of YHWH and created the world by his hands, but by YHWH's instruction.
Jesus was humbled as a spirit and became man to reconcile us to his Father YHWH. Turning mankind from being God's creation into God's kin (relative, family, loved ones).
It seems that the closest being to God is Jesus…either because Jesus actually comes from the fabric of God or is the only being that is the exact replica of God represented in creation.
Trinitarian Question
Does this mean they're one in the same?Yes and No. To me Jesus is like a computer for God…
God is the actual user….Jesus is the interface between God and the enviroment (creation or mankind).I can see Jesus also being cut from the cloth of God, being from his essence, therefore making Jesus God as well.
But I honestly believe mankind's limited comprehension will fault us in trying to understand Jesus' diety.
We can't use either/ors when it comes to understanding because frankly, it is like ignorant people saying….”The cup is either half full or half empty” when it really is both.
Going deeper in the rabbit hole, the cup may not be filled with anything at all and it could all be an illusion. We live in a world “WE” define. and most of the time our definitions are wrong.
Anti-Trinitarian question
Well the bible says there is only one God, how can Jesus also be God?The important thing is to realize that you can have multiple identities. As a man, at work i'm an Assett Manager, at Home I'm a Husband and Dad, and I also am a Brother, Son, friend ect….
God can also have different identities, we just need to be able to perceive his identity not in a absolute way but in a situational way.
Example: God loves us, but when we sin he acts as our disciplinary authority. When we hurt, he is our comforter, father, friend…he's also our Boss, our puppetmaster, crafter of our destinies.
Understanding this, you should also know God is also capable of all things…so if he wanted to reveal himself to mankind as “The Son” instead of “The Father” he can do so.
My Question
Where do we draw the line?When we die
The reason I say that, is because in death all things are revealed to you in truth and honesty.
The Bible is so suggestive and to be frank, language changes as time goes on. The words that mean something today can have a totally different meaning 10years from now.
There are words that can have 4 – 5 completely different meanings alone.
So taking language that was written 4+ thousand years ago and trying to decipher their current day translations can produce confusing fruits.
I think the important thing for everyone here is not to bicker and attack each other because one thinks Jesus is God and the other doesn't.
At the end of the day, you know this.
God sent Jesus to earth to die for our sins, and believing Jesus is FROM God (you do not need to believe he IS God) with baptism, confession, and leading a changed life while keeping a relation with God…will grant you access to heaven as it is written.
We are not required to do anything else to get INTO heaven.
————————————————A forgiving God who sacrifices his Son to reconcile us back to him, would not stop you from going to heaven just because you're perception on Jesus is faulty do to interpretation. Both trinitarians and anti-trinitarians are christians and are following the right path, and it is such a small mistake that I can picture God saying….”No Jesus isn't me, he's my Son” or “Yes, since I am the originator of all things, Jesus is my pure earthly identity that I gave an idenpendant will to”
Either or, it's not something I can see God condemning any christian to hell for, especially when you believe that Jesus died for your sins.
So stop the bickering, what you need to know is that you'll never know it all. We are all lower case gods, sons of the ever living God.
Hi RM,
Do men go to heaven or is that a popular myth?
The meek inherit the earth.How can they respond unless they hear a preacher?
The word of God is the true seed but here men sow many other things unto destruction.False gospels cannot reap a harvest unto God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2009,04:36) Hi RM,
Do men go to heaven or is that a popular myth?
The meek inherit the earth.How can they respond unless they hear a preacher?
The word of God is the true seed but here men sow many other things unto destruction.False gospels cannot reap a harvest unto God.
Do men go to heaven or do the meek inherit the earth.Heaven to me is the kingdom of God, whether it is some place in the sky, or it is on earth in a new world…I don't care
As long as it is a peaceful place where I am comforted by my Lord Jesus and my God YHWH.
You asked how can they respond unless they hear a preacher?
My question to that is, wtf are you talking about?
The purpose of my post was to state that we will never know it all, the NT was written over two thousand years ago, the language was different, so were the people, the beliefs and mentality.
A phrase that meant something then, can mean something completely different today. We want to believe the exerts who translate this stuff, but those are the same experts that have manufactured are the garbage in America that is destroying the people.
I'd like to think propaganda originated with religion…and these are the same people we follow to our doom.
All i wanted to point out the basics.
Jesus died for our sins, he came from God, if you are baptised, confess of your sins, and live a transformed life with God at the center of it.
You will be granted eternal peace, everything in between is irrelevant unless you need help learning how to live a transformed life.
Hi RM,
The basics are the Gospel of salvation and the whole Word of God.
Everyone wants to build before they have found the foundation rock.[mt7]Rokkaman, AMEN to all you said!
So well said
God knows our hearts and what we really feel,think, do,
even if our perceptions are right or wrong
And God can be evrything to us, our protector, discipliner, teacher, saviour, strength,
And heaven could be anything, to me it is being reconciled with God physically or spiritually, safe and happy and free. Lifted up from down here,
Baptism can be a step, and prayer, and reading the bible, but also just as important: forgiving others, loving others, helping others, and listening to and obeying the voice of God within.
Hi,
I need a little help with something concerning Paul. If Yeshua was able to foretell the future as well as he obviously was, why then was he unable to predict something as important as the coming of Saul of Tarsus. I ask this because so much of the Romanized bible is based on Paul’s interpretation of Yeshua’s words. We are asked to swallow, on faith alone, many contradictions based solely on the word of a murderous Jewish Roman citizen named Paul. Why was he given so much power to define (or redefine ), Yeshua’s message? It’s kind of obvious to me that he wanted to lead the emerging Christian church, a job that had already been given to someone else by the master himself. I have a lot of trouble with the KJV because of this. When asked by his disciples, “after you are gone, who shall we follow?”, Yeshua told them that they are to follow his brother James the just. The implications being, at least to me, that after the crucifixion James would lead the church, as indeed he attempted to do. I cannot believe that Yeshua would have failed to inform the people most important to his mission that a man such as Paul was on the way. Why would there have been a need for such friction as there was between Paul and James? We know from historical accounts, as written by Josephus, that the friction was much more pronounced than the KJV’s description of a minor disagreement and might better be described as internecine hostilities. For the sake of sparing the lives of countless Christians I can understand why Yeshua would need to make an appearance to a murderous criminal like Paul. However, that he failed to also inform James and his church knowing of the friction that this was certain to cause, defies logic and speaks to me of deception. Who was Paul that he should feel entitled to correct the mission of the Ebionite Christianities? Perhaps we should ask why Paul felt that this needed to be done.
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