- This topic is empty.
- Posts
t8:
Quote The greek word used in this dissertation of 1John is: ''Cosmos''….adorning world…arraignment….order… I believe the reference is to the Jewish religious order that was being replaced by faith and grace! 1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that….[the whole world]…OLD RELIGIOUS ORDER…. is under the control of the evil one. [THEY WERE IN SIN AND DARKNESS IN NEED OF SALVATION]YHWH is the God of the Earth not the world. YHWH is the God of the cosmos, not the aion.[YHWH GAVE THE EARTH TO MANKIND AT THE BEGINNING TO HAVE DOMINION OVER…COMPLETE CONTROL] [THATS WHY ITS IN SUCH A MESS…GOD DIDN'T DO IT]
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with….the OLD RELIGIOUS world…. means enmity against God?
Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of…..[the OLD RELIGIOUS world]…. becomes an enemy of God.
Do not love [the OLD RELIGIOUS world] or anything in…[the OLD RELIGIOUS world]… If anyone loves the…[RELIGIOUS world,]… love for the Father is not in them.
They are from….[THE OLD RELIGIOUS]… world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of….[THAT RELIGIOUS world]…., and [RELIGION] listens to them.
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of the…..OLD RELIGIOUS]… world,
The [RELIGIOUS] world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.If they have escaped the corruption of the world..[by knowing].. our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of [the world]. On the contrary, they have divine power…[SPIRITUAL WORDS]… to demolish…[SPIRITUAL]…. strongholds.(LAWS, RULES, WORKS, DEEDS)
Since you died with Christ to the[OLD WAY] elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the [PASSING RELIGIOUS]… world, do you submit to its rules:(LAWS, WORKS, DEEDS, RULES)
For me I believe this is all about the old testament religion passing and the new salvation in Christ creating perfection by faith dwelling within the [Temple] of man, that is arriving!! The ''really good news''!! IMO, TK
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 19 2012,05:42) Wakeup said to ftk: Quote FTK. John.12:31.Now is the judgement of this WORLD(not age)
Now shall the prince of this WORLD(not age) be cast out.
(These are the Lords words.)
Jesus said, “NOW the prince of this world is cast out.” Jesus said that he was cast out “NOW.”So how could he blind the minds of men if he was cast out “NOW?”
KJ
KJ………….. Good Scripture , In fact in 2 Ths 2 it also say it is GOD who sends the “DELUDING SPIRIT” to those who love not the truth, in order for them to believe A LIE, not a Satan of any kind can Do that. God is in complete and total control of all his creation Good or Evil. It was not a Satan who sent an evil Spirit (intellect) to King Saul it was GOD who did.You have this one right brother IMO. God alone is Sovereign over all the earth and every thing in it, and in Heaven also. And as far as T8 saying GOD does not KILL that also is false becasue GOD himself Said “I KILL AND I MAKE ALIVE”. One only has to read the “ORIGINAL Testament ” and can easily see where he does kill people in fact whole Nations and whole cities. While GOD is no Murder, he certainly kills and makes alive, and the reason he is no Murder is becasue He is SOVEREIGN over what He creates and the includes Satan to. IMO
peace and love………………………………….gene
T8…………So we are to “HATE this WORLD” but Scripture say GOD so loved the World that he gave his only begotten Son to it. To save it. So in you theology its OK for God to love the World but not us right? There is nothing wrong with this World, it is the System of Governments and the way people live, thy focus is on the earth and themselves instead of on GOD is the problem, but that is not the World itself nor its creation, but the way people act, from a Earthly Nature or Mentality, that is what we should to come to Hate and come to learn to Love the Higher way of GOD and focus on that in our lives and not learn to live by the lower Nature Standers of the earth.
Jesus even said to LOVE your Enemies also, not hate them. When it says “THINGS” of this world it is referencing the way it operates the system of things like as TIM brought out.
I believe what you mean is the Earthly System of things also brother, Because i think you know GOD is “SOVEREIGN” over all things. IMO
peace and love to you and yours T8………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 19 2012,23:17) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 19 2012,05:42) Wakeup said to ftk: Quote FTK. John.12:31.Now is the judgement of this WORLD(not age)
Now shall the prince of this WORLD(not age) be cast out.
(These are the Lords words.)
Jesus said, “NOW the prince of this world is cast out.” Jesus said that he was cast out “NOW.”So how could he blind the minds of men if he was cast out “NOW?”
KJ
KJ………….. Good Scripture , In fact in 2 Ths 2 it also say it is GOD who sends the “DELUDING SPIRIT” to those who love not the truth, in order for them to believe A LIE, not a Satan of any kind can Do that. God is in complete and total control of all his creation Good or Evil. It was not a Satan who sent an evil Spirit (intellect) to King Saul it was GOD who did.You have this one right brother IMO. God alone is Sovereign over all the earth and every thing in it, and in Heaven also. And as far as T8 saying GOD does not KILL that also is false becasue GOD himself Said “I KILL AND I MAKE ALIVE”. One only has to read the “ORIGINAL Testament ” and can easily see where he does kill people in fact whole Nations and whole cities. While GOD is no Murder, he certainly kills and makes alive, and the reason he is no Murder is becasue He is SOVEREIGN over what He creates and the includes Satan to. IMO
peace and love………………………………….gene
Gene b.God kills the bad for his good purpose; his whole plan is good.
He uses the bad to do the bad things and the good to do the good things.greetings.
wakeup.
Quote (ftk @ Jan. 19 2012,22:21) t8: Quote The greek word used in this dissertation of 1John is: ''Cosmos''….adorning world…arraignment….order… I believe the reference is to the Jewish religious order that was being replaced by faith and grace! 1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that….[the whole world]…OLD RELIGIOUS ORDER…. is under the control of the evil one. [THEY WERE IN SIN AND DARKNESS IN NEED OF SALVATION]YHWH is the God of the Earth not the world. YHWH is the God of the cosmos, not the aion.[YHWH GAVE THE EARTH TO MANKIND AT THE BEGINNING TO HAVE DOMINION OVER…COMPLETE CONTROL] [THATS WHY ITS IN SUCH A MESS…GOD DIDN'T DO IT]
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with….the OLD RELIGIOUS world…. means enmity against God?
Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of…..[the OLD RELIGIOUS world]…. becomes an enemy of God.
Do not love [the OLD RELIGIOUS world] or anything in…[the OLD RELIGIOUS world]… If anyone loves the…[RELIGIOUS world,]… love for the Father is not in them.
They are from….[THE OLD RELIGIOUS]… world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of….[THAT RELIGIOUS world]…., and [RELIGION] listens to them.
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of the…..OLD RELIGIOUS]… world,
The [RELIGIOUS] world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.If they have escaped the corruption of the world..[by knowing].. our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of [the world]. On the contrary, they have divine power…[SPIRITUAL WORDS]… to demolish…[SPIRITUAL]…. strongholds.(LAWS, RULES, WORKS, DEEDS)
Since you died with Christ to the[OLD WAY] elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the [PASSING RELIGIOUS]… world, do you submit to its rules:(LAWS, WORKS, DEEDS, RULES)
For me I believe this is all about the old testament religion passing and the new salvation in Christ creating perfection by faith dwelling within the [Temple] of man, that is arriving!! The ''really good news''!! IMO, TK
Tim……………Good Post brother.peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 19 2012,21:15) It is sad that you resort God to the God of this world when we are told outright that the world is our enemy. We are told to not be of the world, and here you guys are saying that the world is of YHWH. In the name of your Trinity do you insult God with this and it shows that you do not fear God, but rather will twist any scripture to prove your false doctrine. If you still refuse to see that Satan is the God of this age, then I offer this complimentary verse. It shows that the one who is in control of the world is not YHWH.
1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.YHWH is the God of the Earth not the world. YHWH is the God of the cosmos, not the aion.
Look at what we are told about the world and you attribute this world to God? You need to sober up guys.
- You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
- Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.
- They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.
- Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world,
- The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
- If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
- The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
- Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
- Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
- See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.
- Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
- Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Amen T8.Good scriptures.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 19 2012,21:21) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 19 2012,05:44) Isn't it funny how t8 rejects tradition regarding the trinity doctrine but subscribes to the foolish teachings of tradition on satan? KJ
kj, you are defeated already.If you want another round, then prepare for defeat again.
You cannot prosper with your false doctrine.
There is no good in a lie.
t8,Stop acting childish! You previously said that this interpretation is a “trinitarian” error when Gene and Jodi Lee who are not trinitarians have been sayng all along that satan is no 'god' in any sense.
The scripture UNIVERSALLY declares that it is God who blinds the minds of men (John 12:40-41). And it is God in 2 Corinthians 4:4 who blinds the minds of men by instrumentation of the “same veil” he blinded them in Moses' time.
See Gene's posts which gives other scriptures that prove that God does the blinding. Satan never had the powere to get into a man's mind. Stop worshipping satan!
The closest you have as “proof” that satan is a 'god' is John 12:31 which says,”NOW is prince of this age is cast out.”
First, Jesus said that the pprince of htis age was cast out “NOW”. So how could he be blinding men a quarter century later when 2 Crinthians was written? Jesus said that he was cast out “NOW”.
Second, verses 40-41 CLEARLY say that God blinded the Jews.
Third, Christ is the image of “hotheos” which proves conclusively that “hotheos” CANNOT be a reference to satan.
The person who blinds in clause 1 is called “hotheos” (the God). Clause 2 says that Christ is the image of “hotheos” (the God). Therefore, “hotheos” in both clauses is one and the same and CANNOT be satan.
The correct syntax:
“God has blinded the minds of the unbelieving of this age, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
The person who blinds in clause 1 is called “hotheos” (the God). Clause 2 says that Christ is the image of “hotheos” (the God). Therefore, “hotheos” in both clauses is one and the same and CANNOT be satan.
Hotheos (the God) blinded men both in Moses' and in Paul's times by instrumentation of the “same veil” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
GOD CANNOT WORK IN LEAGUE WITH SATAN!
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 20 2012,09:52) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 19 2012,21:21) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 19 2012,05:44) Isn't it funny how t8 rejects tradition regarding the trinity doctrine but subscribes to the foolish teachings of tradition on satan? KJ
kj, you are defeated already.If you want another round, then prepare for defeat again.
You cannot prosper with your false doctrine.
There is no good in a lie.
t8,Stop acting childish! You previously said that this interpretation is a “trinitarian” error when Gene and Jodi Lee who are not trinitarians have been sayng all along that satan is no 'god' in any sense.
The scripture UNIVERSALLY declares that it is God who blinds the minds of men (John 12:40-41). And it is God in 2 Corinthians 4:4 who blinds the minds of men by instrumentation of the “same veil” he blinded them in Moses' time.
See Gene's posts which gives other scriptures that prove that God does the blinding. Satan never had the powere to get into a man's mind. Stop worshipping satan!
The closest you have as “proof” that satan is a 'god' is John 12:31 which says,”NOW is prince of this age is cast out.”
First, Jesus said that the pprince of htis age was cast out “NOW”. So how could he be blinding men a quarter century later when 2 Crinthians was written? Jesus said that he was cast out “NOW”.
Second, verses 40-41 CLEARLY say that God blinded the Jews.
Third, Christ is the image of “hotheos” which proves conclusively that “hotheos” CANNOT be a reference to satan.
The person who blinds in clause 1 is called “hotheos” (the God). Clause 2 says that Christ is the image of “hotheos” (the God). Therefore, “hotheos” in both clauses is one and the same and CANNOT be satan.
The correct syntax:
“God has blinded the minds of the unbelieving of this age, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
The person who blinds in clause 1 is called “hotheos” (the God). Clause 2 says that Christ is the image of “hotheos” (the God). Therefore, “hotheos” in both clauses is one and the same and CANNOT be satan.
Hotheos (the God) blinded men both in Moses' and in Paul's times by instrumentation of the “same veil” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
GOD CANNOT WORK IN LEAGUE WITH SATAN!
KJ
JkooYou have to understand that God uses all ,even you ,see it this way,your comment are of this world but the ones who answers you take time to research the scriptures and by this receive more and more blessing ,and so answers you with godly wisdom ,on the other hand ,you are going deeper in your false doctrines ,and so become more and more blind to the truth of God ,because of your refusal to listen with your heart and be save by the son of God,
So your negative and false allegations get you more away from God while the ones who try to help you are now progressing towards Gods wisdom of understanding ,and so it is for the good and the bad,
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 19 2012,23:17) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 19 2012,05:42) Wakeup said to ftk: Quote FTK. John.12:31.Now is the judgement of this WORLD(not age)
Now shall the prince of this WORLD(not age) be cast out.
(These are the Lords words.)
Jesus said, “NOW the prince of this world is cast out.” Jesus said that he was cast out “NOW.”So how could he blind the minds of men if he was cast out “NOW?”
KJ
KJ………….. Good Scripture , In fact in 2 Ths 2 it also say it is GOD who sends the “DELUDING SPIRIT” to those who love not the truth, in order for them to believe A LIE, not a Satan of any kind can Do that. God is in complete and total control of all his creation Good or Evil. It was not a Satan who sent an evil Spirit (intellect) to King Saul it was GOD who did.You have this one right brother IMO. God alone is Sovereign over all the earth and every thing in it, and in Heaven also. And as far as T8 saying GOD does not KILL that also is false becasue GOD himself Said “I KILL AND I MAKE ALIVE”. One only has to read the “ORIGINAL Testament ” and can easily see where he does kill people in fact whole Nations and whole cities. While GOD is no Murder, he certainly kills and makes alive, and the reason he is no Murder is becasue He is SOVEREIGN over what He creates and the includes Satan to. IMO
peace and love………………………………….gene
Gene my brother: Bless you! From this post of yours it gendered a question or two in me.Though I agree with your doctrines about Satan and many other great truthes you have, I would ask your opinion on this:
In the beginning of creation God gave the Earth and all its dominion, all its fullness, to mankind! Every animal, every herb, birds, creatures all that was in the Earth, to “replenish/have fully”! Adam named the animals and set and established the functions of the earth with God but according to God it was all given to mankind!
Here is the kicker…God gave the earth/physicality to man to rule yet God is the life source of man. Gods breath of life is the living, moving, animation of a human. So, part of sovereign God now dwells in human form under mans rule. There are reason's for this but not enough space to go into it here!
How is it that you say God rules or controls in the earth? He gave all control to man. If God were ruling the earth it would not be in the mess it is in. Mankind messed it up! Man used his all-powerful mind and accepted evil as his god along with good!
Once fear and destruction were half of mans belief system it proliferated more and more destructive thoughts unto death. Man was given complete control of the earth realm. Mankind has done what has been done so far in the earth.
Sovereignty is also established through dignity and integrity. God cannot lie. What he speaks….comes to pass! So no lies can come from God, what he says, is! God is life! God is not death!
The spirit of life cannot destroy life. God is everywhere, life is everywhere! The only place life is not is where deception, of evil unto death exists! God is…evil is not! Evil is a lie from the beginning. Everything joined to evil/death will cease in time.
If joined to eternal life, absolute life with no dark/death at all, life is forever! The fruit of love is life. Jesus revealed the most high God as, Love! If we ultimately follow Jesus as lord of our lives and he is our sovereign King, then the God that Jesus represented does not kill or destroy.
Sorry this is so long. Just my thoughts, bless you, and my opinions, TK
I think a number of you commenting about me is out of line. It shows that you do not read my posts or do not understand them.
Please comment on posts that you read or understand. It would certainly be in line with being a peace maker.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 19 2012,23:17) And as far as T8 saying GOD does not KILL that also is false becasue GOD himself Said “I KILL AND I MAKE ALIVE”. peace and love………………………………….gene
Gene, you sign this with peace and love. You forgot to mention lie or misquote.Here is my quote. It is very different to what you say that I said.
You are wrong on this account. That proves you can be wrong on other accounts. You should be aware of that.
Quote (t8 @ jan) Satan is the God of murder. He is called the Father of lies too which makes him the God of lies. Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 20 2012,02:52) Stop acting childish! You previously said that this interpretation is a “trinitarian” error when Gene and Jodi Lee who are not trinitarians have been sayng all along that satan is no 'god' in any sense.
I am pretty sure you comment about me is also wrong KJ because I don't even know what you are talking about. If I did what you said, then I would probably understand what you said. Can you clarify?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 19 2012,23:30) T8…………So we are to “HATE this WORLD” but Scripture say GOD so loved the World that he gave his only begotten Son to it. To save it. So in you theology its OK for God to love the World but not us right? There is nothing wrong with this World, it is the System of Governments and the way people live, thy focus is on the earth
If you love the world Gene, the love of the Father is not in you. What God saves is no longer of the world, this is simple stuff Gene.And the system you talk of is the world. The world is not the Earth.
Yes it is a bit confusing sometimes because some translations use 2 different words for world. One is Kosmos which is of God. The other is Aion. It is the second which is the one that is our enemy and anything of God is not our enemy is it. That word literally means this age.
It is the second that Satan is the god of too, and that is why this aion is in the mess it is. I don't go with yourself and KJ that YHWH is the God of this world/age because God doesn't mess things up for a start and secondly, scripture says that Satan is the god of this age.
KJ, don't you get sick of being consistently wrong.
Why not take a break from it.
It might give new meaning to your life to take a break.
You might start to hear the quiet voice that is often drowned out by ego and the world.It is of course possible that a person who defends the world is of the world.
Did that thought cross any of your minds?Interesting discussion…what I have noticed is that poster's understandings for “this age,” and satan seem to be all over the place.
Now this might cause some division but can we approach this from the perspective and understanding of the original poster, KJ?
KJ, please give us your understanding for the following:
“this age”
satanSo, instead of outright disagreeing with him (Jack is a man's name), let us answer according to his own understanding. T8 brought out the understanding of “this world” to be religious in nature; others say that it refers to this Earth. Those are wildly varying definitions. Let us hear from KJ as to how he understand them and proceed from that point. Remember, the devil believes in Jesus too – just not the same way Christians believe in him…
Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,12:07) Interesting discussion…what I have noticed is that poster's understandings for “this age,” and satan seem to be all over the place. Now this might cause some division but can we approach this from the perspective and understanding of the original poster, KJ?
KJ, please give us your understanding for the following:
“this age”
satanSo, instead of outright disagreeing with him (Jack is a man's name), let us answer according to his own understanding. T8 brought out the understanding of “this world” to be religious in nature; others say that it refers to this Earth. Those are wildly varying definitions. Let us hear from KJ as to how he understand them and proceed from that point. Remember, the devil believes in Jesus too – just not the same way Christians believe in him…
Fulloffaithfirst ;Satan is the god of this world ;this means that he as received powers for a time to do as he pleases but with restrictions ,
while all his (Satan) world developed, the God in heaven has also made his kingdom plans and so both are still working, even now,
one offers live in Christ ,the other offers dead in his world ,
so “this age” is still this time
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,03:11) Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,12:07) Interesting discussion…what I have noticed is that poster's understandings for “this age,” and satan seem to be all over the place. Now this might cause some division but can we approach this from the perspective and understanding of the original poster, KJ?
KJ, please give us your understanding for the following:
“this age”
satanSo, instead of outright disagreeing with him (Jack is a man's name), let us answer according to his own understanding. T8 brought out the understanding of “this world” to be religious in nature; others say that it refers to this Earth. Those are wildly varying definitions. Let us hear from KJ as to how he understand them and proceed from that point. Remember, the devil believes in Jesus too – just not the same way Christians believe in him…
Fulloffaithfirst ;Satan is the god of this world ;this means that he as received powers for a time to do as he pleases but with restrictions ,
while all his (Satan) world developed, the God in heaven has also made his kingdom plans and so both are still working, even now,
one offers live in Christ ,the other offers dead in his world ,
so “this age” is still this time
Pierre
I'm sorry Pierre, I wanted the ORIGINAL poster to define his terms so that we could understand where he is coming from in order to best “analyze” the points he was making.We could argue his definitions for those things afterwards if need be, but they should be placed on separate threads.
Not that this means anything at this present time, but I think I am disagree with you so far – although it wasn't really a very specific description given in regard to satan.
“this age” is not this time. It was the time when it was written.
Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,14:49) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,03:11) Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,12:07) Interesting discussion…what I have noticed is that poster's understandings for “this age,” and satan seem to be all over the place. Now this might cause some division but can we approach this from the perspective and understanding of the original poster, KJ?
KJ, please give us your understanding for the following:
“this age”
satanSo, instead of outright disagreeing with him (Jack is a man's name), let us answer according to his own understanding. T8 brought out the understanding of “this world” to be religious in nature; others say that it refers to this Earth. Those are wildly varying definitions. Let us hear from KJ as to how he understand them and proceed from that point. Remember, the devil believes in Jesus too – just not the same way Christians believe in him…
Fulloffaithfirst ;Satan is the god of this world ;this means that he as received powers for a time to do as he pleases but with restrictions ,
while all his (Satan) world developed, the God in heaven has also made his kingdom plans and so both are still working, even now,
one offers live in Christ ,the other offers dead in his world ,
so “this age” is still this time
Pierre
I'm sorry Pierre, I wanted the ORIGINAL poster to define his terms so that we could understand where he is coming from in order to best “analyze” the points he was making.We could argue his definitions for those things afterwards if need be, but they should be placed on separate threads.
Not that this means anything at this present time, but I think I am disagree with you so far – although it wasn't really a very specific description given in regard to satan.
“this age” is not this time. It was the time when it was written.
Fulloffaithshow me ??(that) It was the time when it was written.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,05:06) show me ??(that) It was the time when it was written.
Pierre, please start another thread for this discussion. By the way, you never showed me how either. I didn't want to ask because I am interested in who the “god” was. I do not wish to derail the thread any more than it has been…hope you understand.PM me as to where that new thread end up…thanks.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
