Satan is in the lake of fire

[GeneBalthrop]

DB…..There is (NO) Beelzebub Prince of the devils, they were falsely accusing of that. He was denying any existence of a Beelzebub and said who does you childern cast them out by. All adversaries of GOD walk around seeing who they can devour. That has nothing to do with an actual being, all who have adversary spirits (intellects) are satins and devils, yes even Peter was and Judas and the Pharisees were to. They all can from the same source of Mindset of the world. And they resisted and still resist the work of GOD. They have adversarial natures they gained from the world, not from some spook or devil being going around jumping in and out of people. God never subject his creation to a (third party DEVIL Being) The corruption of man was within him not external of him. WE can not say it the devils fault he made me do it. Truth is man does what he want to do and He himself animates the d-evil with in him, not external of him. Jesus rightly told Peter He was Satan, because Peter was being a Satan, (adversary) to him. The Spirit (intellect) of an adversary is what a devil is. Nothing more. Mystery Religion has made up the doctrine of devils and demon (BEINGS), there is none, Just intellects (spirits) effecting the minds of People and controlling then. So a man think so he is, its what is in his own mind causing the problem not external of him. IMO

gene

[NickHassan]

G,
Must you teach against Jesus?
It is not fair competition for you and you may pay a price later for it.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,18:02)

WorshippingJesus said to Gene: Quote No. You are adding your words into the text. Spiritual wickedness in heavenly places is not “doctrines” or “words”. They are real demons and evil spirits that seduce men with doctrines of “demons” Keith, I agree with you except for one thing bro! The demons are not in the heavenly places now. They have been removed from the heavenlies and cast into the lake of fire. thinker

Jack

My own experience has been that satan has come down with great wrath knowing that his days are short.

I have seen demons screaming out of people at the mention of the name of Jesus, just as in the Bible. I have personally looked at them in the eye of the victom and cast them out.

So no, I believe you are wrong on this one.  

Look around you bro, if this is the New heaven and New earth, God help us!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 27 2009,11:02)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,18:02) WorshippingJesus said to Gene: Quote No. You are adding your words into the text. Spiritual wickedness in heavenly places is not “doctrines” or “words”. They are real demons and evil spirits that seduce men with doctrines of “demons” Keith, I agree with you except for one thing bro! The demons are not in the heavenly places now. They have been removed from the heavenlies and cast into the lake of fire. thinker Jack My own experience has been that satan has come down with great wrath knowing that his days are short. I have seen demons screaming out of people at the mention of the name of Jesus, just as in the Bible. I have personally looked at them in the eye of the victom and cast them out. So no, I believe you are wrong on this one.   Look around you bro, if this is the New heaven and New earth, God help us! WJ

Keith,
You did not live under the old covenant, that is, the old heaven and earth. You did not have to walk on eggs to please God and still be in danger. You did not have to worry about being stoned to death for not keeping the sabbath, or being excommunicated if you were not circumcised. Your wife never had to fear being treated as “unclean” during her menstral cycle.

Your justification is not based in your works as it was under the old covenant. We are in the new heaven and earth, that is, the new covenant age inwhich our consciences have been washed with pure water.

Satan and his demons are in the lake of fire. Please give me scriptural evidence for what you say. We walk by faith and not by sight. Jesus said, “NOW is the prince of this world thrust out.” Paul said that satan would be “broken to pieces” under THEIR feet “shortly.”

I accept these propositions by faith.

thinker

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 27 2009,10:35)

DB…..There is (NO) Beelzebub  Prince of the devils,  they were falsely accusing of that.  He was denying any existence of a Beelzebub and said who does you childern cast them out by. All adversaries of GOD walk around seeing who they can devour.  That has nothing to do with an actual being, all who have adversary spirits (intellects) are satins and devils, yes even Peter was and Judas and the Pharisees were to. They all can from the same source of Mindset of the world. And they resisted and still resist the work of GOD. They have adversarial natures they gained from the world, not from some spook or devil being going around jumping in and out of people.  God never subject his creation to a (third party DEVIL Being) The corruption of man was within him not external of him. WE can not say it the devils fault he made me do it. Truth is man does what he want to do and He himself animates the d-evil with in him, not external of him. Jesus rightly told Peter He was Satan, because Peter was being a Satan, (adversary) to him. The Spirit (intellect) of an adversary is what a devil is. Nothing more. Mystery Religion has made up the doctrine of devils and demon (BEINGS), there is none, Just intellects (spirits) effecting the minds of People and controlling then. So a man think so he is, its what is in his own mind causing the problem not external of him.  IMO gene

You are right that a man can be an advesary or Satan but that does not mean that there are not Satanic beings invisible to the eye.

Do you believe in angels and if so what are they?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 27 2009,11:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 27 2009,11:02) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,18:02) WorshippingJesus said to Gene: Quote No. You are adding your words into the text. Spiritual wickedness in heavenly places is not “doctrines” or “words”. They are real demons and evil spirits that seduce men with doctrines of “demons” Keith, I agree with you except for one thing bro! The demons are not in the heavenly places now. They have been removed from the heavenlies and cast into the lake of fire. thinker Jack My own experience has been that satan has come down with great wrath knowing that his days are short. I have seen demons screaming out of people at the mention of the name of Jesus, just as in the Bible. I have personally looked at them in the eye of the victom and cast them out. So no, I believe you are wrong on this one.   Look around you bro, if this is the New heaven and New earth, God help us! WJ Keith, You did not live under the old covenant, that is, the old heaven and earth. You did not have to walk on eggs to please God and still be in danger. You did not have to worry about being stoned to death for not keeping the sabbath, or being excommunicated if you were not circumcised. Your wife never had to fear being treated as “unclean” during her menstral cycle. Your justification is not based in your works as it was under the old covenant. We are in the new heaven and earth, that is, the new covenant age inwhich our consciences have been washed with pure water. Satan and his demons are in the lake of fire. Please give me scriptural evidence for what you say. We walk by faith and not by sight. Jesus said, “NOW is the prince of this world thrust out.” Paul said that satan would be “broken to pieces” under THEIR feet “shortly.” I accept these propositions by faith. thinker

How come you won't respond to this:

Revelation 21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,22:44)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,12:47) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,12:28) Marty said: Quote Abraham is our father in the faith, we are not children of Abraham, but as born again Christians, we are children of God. Con concurs: Quote Agreed. TO ALL: This is another example of futurist double talk. Marty and Con says that Abraham is our father but we are not his children. We are the children of God but not the children of Abraham. According to Paul our being the children of God and the children of Abraham go hand in hand, Galatians 3:26-29: “26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” [Note: It is as Abraham's children that we are heirs of the promises] There it is! We are children of God and of Abraham. How Marty and Con can believe that Abraham is our father without our being his children is beyond my comprehension. I had said that futurists engage in a lot of double talk on the subject of satan. So let's summarize what we have so far: 1. CON: Satan lost his authority in principle but not in fact. 2. MARTY AND CON: Abraham is our father but we are not his children. If these guys would just let satan be in the lake of fire where God threw him they would not be speaking such unintelligible nonsense. thinker Hi thethinker: Just trying to teach you the Word of God, but you just don't won't to listen. Abraham is our father in the faith.  I am a son of God.  God is my Father in the Spirit. Quote Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.   Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law,   BUT TO THAT WHICH IS OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM,who is the father of us all. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, If you are not a son of Abraham then you are not an heir of the promises. Paul said that we are the children of Abraham (Romans 4). You are blatantly denying the gospel in favor of tradition. Tradition has erred in the chronology it has given us. Jesus said that “NOW shall the prince of this world be THRUST OUT.” Paul said that satan would be broken to pieces (crushed) under the feet of those christians. He said it would happen to satan “shortly.” Tradition has given us the wrong chronology in this manner. According to John's vision it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound. This takes us all the way back to the garden when he was cursed. This is supported by the fact that we have no biblical record of demon possession or any satanic activities throughout the old testament period. We don't see satan wreaking havoc again until the time of Jesus and the apostles. So satan was loosed during the “little season” of Jesus and the apostolic church age. He was about to be judged. Jesus clearly said that satan was to be thrust out NOW. When Jesus returned in ad70 to judge Israel satan was also judged and he was cast into the lake of fire. Questions: 1. Explain why John's vision says that the “ancient serpent” was bound and show how the binding of satan can be in our future. 2. Explain why there was no satanic activity in the old testament period and that satan did not wreak havoc until the time of Jesus and the apostles. 3. Explain why Jesus said, “NOW shall the prince of this world be thrust out.” 4. Explain why Paul said that satan would be “broken in pieces” SHORTLY. The word “shortly” cannot be a long time because Paul said it was to happen under THEIR feet. And give up your error that we are not Abraham's children. Paul repeatedly said that we are and that those who follow in his footsteps are his sons. Your assertion that Abraham can be our father without our being his children is total nonsense. thinker

Hi thethinker:

I have already shown you that the scriptures do not say that we as born again believers are children of God and not of Abraham.  Abraham is a believer and a Father of all believers in the faith.  

As I have said, Jesus, Abraham and I are brothers.  All believers are joint heirs of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus said:

Quote

Jhn 12:31   Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.   Jhn 12:32   And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

Because Jesus obeyed God without sin unto death on the cross, God has raised him from the dead and he will judge the living, those in Christ, and the dead, those who die in their sins.  That is what the foregoing scriptures mean.  He says, “now is the judgement of this world”.

Maybe this will help you understand:

Quote

Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.

You say:

Quote

1. Explain why John's vision says that the “ancient serpent” was bound and show how the binding of satan can be in our future.

Satan was not bound until after the first resurrection.  This speaks of him being bound for 1000 years following the rapture.  The devil is a spirit and that spirit dwells within all sinners who have not been reconciled to God, therefore, that spirit will not be bound until all men have either been raptured or have died in their sins.  

Quote

Rev 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.   Rev 20:2   And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,   Rev 20:3   And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.   Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.   Rev 20:5   But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.   Rev 20:6   Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.   Rev 20:7 ¶ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

And you say:

Quote

2. Explain why there was no satanic activity in the old testament period and that satan did not wreak havoc until the time of Jesus and the apostles.

I don't believe that Job would say this, do you?

You say:

Quote

3. Explain why Jesus said, “NOW shall the prince of this world be thrust out.”

I have already explained this to you.

And you say:

Quote

4. Explain why Paul said that satan would be “broken in pieces” SHORTLY. The word “shortly” cannot be a long time because Paul said it was to happen under THEIR feet.

This is what Paul meant:

Quote

Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.   Mal 4:2   But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.   Mal 4:3   And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

I hope this helps you to understand.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 26 2009,19:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 27 2009,11:02) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,18:02) WorshippingJesus said to Gene: Quote No. You are adding your words into the text. Spiritual wickedness in heavenly places is not “doctrines” or “words”. They are real demons and evil spirits that seduce men with doctrines of “demons” Keith, I agree with you except for one thing bro! The demons are not in the heavenly places now. They have been removed from the heavenlies and cast into the lake of fire. thinker Jack My own experience has been that satan has come down with great wrath knowing that his days are short. I have seen demons screaming out of people at the mention of the name of Jesus, just as in the Bible. I have personally looked at them in the eye of the victom and cast them out. So no, I believe you are wrong on this one.   Look around you bro, if this is the New heaven and New earth, God help us! WJ Keith, You did not live under the old covenant, that is, the old heaven and earth. You did not have to walk on eggs to please God and still be in danger. You did not have to worry about being stoned to death for not keeping the sabbath, or being excommunicated if you were not circumcised. Your wife never had to fear being treated as “unclean” during her menstral cycle. Your justification is not based in your works as it was under the old covenant. We are in the new heaven and earth, that is, the new covenant age inwhich our consciences have been washed with pure water. Satan and his demons are in the lake of fire. Please give me scriptural evidence for what you say. We walk by faith and not by sight. Jesus said, “NOW is the prince of this world thrust out.” Paul said that satan would be “broken to pieces” under THEIR feet “shortly.” I accept these propositions by faith. thinker

Jack

No Jack I didn't live then but I do live now and know what is real and what I have experienced. Don't believe me if you like but please don't tell me that it was not real!

Paul and the Apostles had power over all the enemy before 70 AD when you say satan was bound.

Satan was bound on Calvary for the believer and has no power over the believer because of the cross, not because Jesus cast him into the lake of fire.

We have power over all the enemy and nothing shall be any means harm us because greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world and that which is in the world is the “World (cosmos), the flesh and the Devil!

Tell me Jack, if all has been fulfilled then why is there still death, and pain and sorrow and sickness and crying?

When the New Jerusalem which is the mother of us all comes down from heaven then all those things will be done away!

The lion will lay down with the lamb and the child will play around the hole of a poisness snake and there will be no harm.

Are you going to spiritualize all this away?

You still haven't addressed the points of Peter saying the “elements will melt with fervant heat”, he uses this term a couple of times, and look closely at the Greek Jack for context demands it is a literal melting of the heavens and the earth.

What about Hebrews 1:11, 12, has the heavens and the earth changed, have they been folded up like a garment?

Also, can you provide any historical proof by any of the Forefathers or any early writings that Jesus has already physically returned to the earth?

Blessings Keith

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ……..I personally do not believe in devil or demon beings, I do believe that Spirit (intellect) can effect people in there minds, there are clean and unclean intellects, there are adversarial intellects and there is mental illness the effect the minds also, But i really doubt you have (SEEN) ANY DEMON OR DEVIL, I can honestly say i have never seen any myself. I once working on a job and a man was writing on a slab of cement and talking to himself I ask him what he was doing and he begin to tell me that a person was going to die at that address because he could add up some numbers and they were at the address, I realized he was not normal so i started to leave the area , he began to follow me talking in all kinds of jiberish, so i told my worker lets go, he kept following and talking, so i finally turned and said i believe you have a demon in you and he fell dackwards a started yelling “im not mean im not mean” over and over, so i said i am not saying you are mean, then i ask him when this all started taking place in his life and He said when He was young He was playing on a hill and lighting struck Him and every since then he was that way . At the time in believed in demons and gave him a card of a minster and told he might could help him, I was not sure if the fear that came on him was because the demon recognized the Spirit of GOD in Me or not. But since i have come to believe He was Mentally damaged by the lighting and it messed up his thinking ability. There is all kinds of mental illness that effect people in this world. And their Intellect or mind is effected by it. I have never seen a demon exorcised from anyone and the person remain healed. I know GOD can heal anyone of any mental disorder and Praying for someone or overcomes on is not wrong. But I for one has never seen a devil or demon ever, the only devils and demons i have seen are men themselves. Exercising their Evil minds and natures. Mystery Religions has infected many with suspisions of all kinds. IMO

gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DB……….yes i do believe in Angles that have bodies that can appear and disappear. And God creates the SPirits (INTELLECT) that is in them also. And send them out to minister to the Heirs of salvation as scripture says.

While men have seen Angles they have not seen demons and devils, if so where in scripture does it show a man seeing a devil being. I don't recall ever reading it. Have you, ?

gene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 27 2009,14:39)

WJ……..I personally do not believe in devil or demon beings, I do believe that Spirit (intellect) can effect people in there minds, there are clean and unclean intellects, there are adversarial intellects and there is mental illness the effect the minds also, But i really doubt you have (SEEN) ANY DEMON OR DEVIL, I can honestly say i have never seen any myself. I once working on a job and a man was writing on a slab of cement and talking to himself I ask him what he was doing and he begin to tell me that a person was going to die at that address because he could add up some numbers and they were at the address, I realized he was not normal so i started to leave the area , he began to follow me talking in all kinds of jiberish, so i told my worker lets go, he kept following and talking, so i finally turned and said i believe you have a demon in you and he fell dackwards a started yelling “im not mean im not mean” over and over, so i said i am not saying you are mean, then i ask him when this all started taking place in his life and He said when He was young He was playing on a hill and lighting struck Him and every since then he was that way . At the time in believed in demons and gave him a card of a minster and told he might could help him, I was not sure if the fear that came on him was because the demon recognized the Spirit of GOD in Me or not. But since i have come to believe He was Mentally damaged by the lighting and it messed up his thinking ability. There is all kinds of mental illness that effect people in this world. And their Intellect or mind is effected by it. I have never seen a demon exorcised from anyone and the person remain healed. I know GOD can heal anyone of any mental disorder and Praying for someone or overcomes on is not wrong. But I for one has never seen a devil or demon ever, the only devils and demons i have seen are men themselves. Exercising their Evil minds and natures.  Mystery Religions  has infected many with suspisions of all kinds.  IMO gene

I will say once again that it's not that your wrong it's just that you don't understand that it can be both ways and not either or.

The bible talks about Saul conjuring up Samuel from the dead and the spirit of Samuel speaking to Saul now if the Bible is correct that would mean other spirits that were human and died also exist if that is so some of these spirits can be malicious and if they can communicate in any way to a person they can affect a person.

Also if you believe in angels as creations of God that are actual beings and not just thoughts then there should be no difficulty in believing in demons.

Explain this to me:

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jude 1:8-10

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Revelation 12:6-8

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 26 2009,19:56)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 27 2009,14:39) WJ……..I personally do not believe in devil or demon beings, I do believe that Spirit (intellect) can effect people in there minds, there are clean and unclean intellects, there are adversarial intellects and there is mental illness the effect the minds also, But i really doubt you have (SEEN) ANY DEMON OR DEVIL, I can honestly say i have never seen any myself. I once working on a job and a man was writing on a slab of cement and talking to himself I ask him what he was doing and he begin to tell me that a person was going to die at that address because he could add up some numbers and they were at the address, I realized he was not normal so i started to leave the area , he began to follow me talking in all kinds of jiberish, so i told my worker lets go, he kept following and talking, so i finally turned and said i believe you have a demon in you and he fell dackwards a started yelling “im not mean im not mean” over and over, so i said i am not saying you are mean, then i ask him when this all started taking place in his life and He said when He was young He was playing on a hill and lighting struck Him and every since then he was that way . At the time in believed in demons and gave him a card of a minster and told he might could help him, I was not sure if the fear that came on him was because the demon recognized the Spirit of GOD in Me or not. But since i have come to believe He was Mentally damaged by the lighting and it messed up his thinking ability. There is all kinds of mental illness that effect people in this world. And their Intellect or mind is effected by it. I have never seen a demon exorcised from anyone and the person remain healed. I know GOD can heal anyone of any mental disorder and Praying for someone or overcomes on is not wrong. But I for one has never seen a devil or demon ever, the only devils and demons i have seen are men themselves. Exercising their Evil minds and natures.  Mystery Religions  has infected many with suspisions of all kinds.  IMO gene I will say once again that it's not that your wrong it's just that you don't understand that it can be both ways and not either or. The bible talks about Saul conjuring up Samuel from the dead and the spirit of Samuel speaking to Saul now if the Bible is correct that would mean other spirits that were human and died also exist if that is so some of these spirits can be malicious and if they can communicate in any way to a person they can affect a person. Also if you believe in angels as creations of God that are actual beings and not just thoughts then there should be no difficulty in believing in demons. Explain this to me: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Jude 1:8-10 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Revelation 12:6-8

Seems the devil looks real to me.

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Was Jesus tempted by himself? I doubt it.

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said;

Quote

No Jack I didn't live then but I do live now and know what is real and what I have experienced. Don't believe me if you like but please don't tell me that it was not real!

Hi Keith,
You once posted that you do not believe that Kathi's “whisper” is from the Spirit. Look bro, I am just telling you what I am convinced the Bible teaches.  

WJ:

Quote

Paul and the Apostles had power over all the enemy before 70 AD when you say satan was bound.

I NEVER said that satan was bound before ad70. I said that satan was loosed before AD70. He was bound when he was cursed in the garden and remained bound until Christ when he was loosed. He wreaked havoc in the apostolic age and He was judged in ad70 and cast into the lake of fire.

WJ:

Quote

Satan was bound on Calvary for the believer and has no power over the believer because of the cross, not because Jesus cast him into the lake of fire.

So you would deny that he will be bound in a future millennium?

WJ:

Quote

Tell me Jack, if all has been fulfilled then why is there still death, and pain and sorrow and sickness and crying?

I have explained today in the “New Earth” thread. According to Isaiah's prophecy death and sin exist in the new earth. In John's vision “death” means “condemnation.” The abolition of weeping has to do with the passing away of the old covenant. Under the old covenant worship system the Jews were required to worship God with mourning. In the new covenant we worship God with rejoicing.

WJ:

Quote

When the New Jerusalem which is the mother of us all comes down from heaven then all those things will be done away!

Mourning has been done away as I have indicated immediately above. We come to God's throne boldly now. We do not weep for fear of condemnation. We are not required to worship God with mourning.

WJ:

Quote

The lion will lay down with the lamb and the child will play around the hole of a poisness snake and there will be no harm. Are you going to spiritualize all this away?

Isaiah chapter 11 puts the fulfillment of this prophecy with Christ's FIRST COMING.

Quote

1 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,      And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.       2 The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him,      The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,      The Spirit of counsel and might,      The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.       3 His delight is in the fear of the LORD,      And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,      Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;       4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,      And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;      He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,      And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.       5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,      And faithfulness the belt of His waist.       6 “ The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,      The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,      The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;      And a little child shall lead them.       7 The cow and the bear shall graze;      Their young ones shall lie down together;      And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.       8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,      And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.       9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,      For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD      As the waters cover the sea.

Is the context not about Christ's first coming?

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

CT………..Yes Jesus was tempted from himself, just as we are, and with God's Spirit He master the lust in HIM.

Jam 1:14…> But (EVERY) man is tempted. when he is drawn away of His (OWN) lust, and enticed.

Paraphrase….> you are of you father the (ADVERSARY) and the lusts of your father you will do. He (this adversarial Spirit (intellect) was a murder in the beginning (Cain) He abode not in  the truth because the truth (SPIRIT OF TRUTH) was not (IN) him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own (from his own self); because he (adversary spirit) (intellect) is a liar and the father of it. (that is to say the adversarial spirit (intellect) is.

There is (no) DEVIL (BEING) there is only adversarial (SPIRIT) INTELLECT working in all who are of the Flesh, From Adam and Eve to the present time in all Flesh and was also in Jesus, But having recieved the Spirit of Truth in HIMSELF He was able to overcome this nature that was also in Him. The Devil was that Nature in all human kind, that have not the Spirit of truth in them.  IMO

gene

[KangarooJack]

Gene said to Con:

Quote

CT………..Yes Jesus was tempted from himself, just as we are, and with God's Spirit He master the lust in HIM.

Anathema! Gross heresy!

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

Thinker……….Jesus was (tempted ) in all manor of Sin as we are. But your Antichrist teachings of turning him into your GOD is the
Spirit of Antichrist, and that is Anathema! Gross heresy. IMO

gene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 28 2009,12:05)

Thinker……….Jesus was (tempted ) in all manor of Sin as we are. But your Antichrist teachings of turning him in your GOD is the Spirit of Antichrist, and that is Anathema! Gross heresy. IMO gene

Jesus was tempted but the scriptures say that he was tempted by the devil it doesn't say he was tempted by his own thoughts so to say so is pure speculation and non acceptance of the scriptures itself just as you have done regarding rejecting the fact that God has directly commanded and condoned war in the bible.

I certainly can understand that in a sense you are creatively exploring the layers of meaning in the scriptures but just be careful to stick to the basics which I am sure you are

[Constitutionalist]

What Does “Eternal” Mean?

Eternal Judgment (krímatos aiōníou): Heb 6:2 “of the doc-trine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.”

The period of judging or judgment is limited in duration, but the verdict will never be reversed, so the judgment is eternal.

Eternal Redemption (aiōnían lútrōsin): Heb 9:12 “Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all having obtained eternal redemption.”

Jesus re-deemed us “once for all,” but the effect of that redemption is eternal.

Eternal Salvation (sōtērias aiōníou): Heb 5:9 “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.”

Jesus saved us by a “once for all” act, called salvation, but the effect of that salvation is eternal.

Eternal Sin (aiōníou hamartēmatos): Mark 3:29 “but He who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin.”

The sin occurs during a finite lifetime, but its effect is eternal.

[/B]Eternal Destruction (ólethron aiōníon): 2 Thes 1:9 “These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.”

Destroyed once, but the effect of that destruction is eternal.

Eternal Punishment (kólasin aiōníon / zōèn aiōníon): Matt 25:46 “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”

Resurrection to life happens “in a twinkling of an eye,” but the effect is eternal. Execution is an event completed only by death, and it has not occurred unless death results, but it is an eternal punishment because it is irreversible.

Eternal Fire (puròs aiōníou): Jude 7 “as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example [deigma, a specimen], suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

The clear statement here is that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by “eternal fire,” yet that fire is not still burning.

The effect of the fire is permanent, but the fire burned until the fuel was consumed, then went out. Genesis 19:24–29 tells us the cities were “destroyed,” and 2 Pet 2:6 tells us they were turned to “ashes.”

We may think we know what Jesus means by “eternal fire” in Matt 18:8 and 25:41, but the Bible provides its own answer.

The word most frequently used with “eternal” is of course “life.”

It begins at the resurrection (1 Cor 15:42–43).

The resurrection to life is a single event with eternal effects the Bible calls “eternal life.”

Similarly, “eternal destruction” is a single event with eternal effects the Bible calls “death” (Rom 6:23).

“Eternal life” is lived in the presence of the “eternal glory” of the “eternal.

[Constitutionalist]

What Do the “Worms and Unquenchable Fire” Verses Mean?

Mark 9:44, 46, 48 “Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.”

Jesus is quoting Isa 66:24 “And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses [peger; corpse/carcass] of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

The correct understanding of Jesus’ meaning must take into account the following points:

1) One is not a corpse until one is dead;

2) Maggots eat only dead flesh, but fire kills maggots;

3) Thus, this is a mixed metaphor, and literal fulfillment is impossible;

4) But, the metaphors point to an irreversible process of destruction following death.

Ezek 20:47–48 “And say to the forest of the South, ‘Hear the word of the LORD! Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree and every dry tree in you; the blazing flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be scorched by it. All flesh shall see that I, the LORD, have kindled it; it shall not be quenched.”’”

This metaphorical language refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and Judah, using the image of “unquenchable fire” not to suggest an eternal process, but a process unstoppable until its end is reached.

[Constitutionalist]

What Does It Mean to “Die”?

Gen. 7:21–23 And all flesh died [apéthane] that moved on the earth: . . .”

John 11:26 “‘And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die [apothánē]. Do you believe this?’”

Logically, thus, those who do not be-lieve will die at some time, becoming like those who died in the Flood.

If they die, they are dead, and if they are dead, they are not alive, and if they are not alive, they cannot experience eternal torment. Death does not mean life.

[Author]

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