Satan is in the lake of fire

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 23 2009,22:13)

Can we possibly look a devils, demons, and deception for what they actually are? These are thoughts of the mind. You have thoughts of the mind that are of God and they line up with all that God is and you have thoughts that are not in line with God/truth. A thought not in line with God is un-truth or a deceptive truth, incorrect information, error(sin) thinking. You have the annointing power of God or the mind of Christ, within you now, provided by Jesus, if you believe it. Devils or Lies and deceptions have no power, they can only try to use your power to destroy you. God thoughts create, build up, protect, administer life, feel good. Thoughts cannot force their way into the human mind. We allow them. As long as we don't meditate on the destructive thoughts and believe them they will pass to and from the mind. When we accept negative doctrines as part of our God/Truth we begin to destroy ourselves. If they are accepted and believed they produce evil, death, destruction, sickness and disease. Lies against God/Truth are always thoughts that if accepted will take you to hell on earth and destroy you. The Angel thoughts of God can be accepted in the mind or you can create your own Angel thoughts by pondering and dreaming on life, love, kind works, goodness, happiness etc.! Whatever is predominate in your mind and believed in your heart is what you are and what will be created in this life on earth! God is running the show through you if you put off yourself(die to self) and take on and express God/Truth/Love in your life. Then like Jesus you would say to someone, I do nothing I do not see the Father do. We desparately need a religion data dump. I see masses of man made doctrines being passed to and fro. We should start at the beginning where Jesus prepared the way. The Law is finished. Sin has been removed from mankind. We are one together with the Father/God/Jesus/the whole Spirit just like it was in the Garden of Eden!! Now the battle in the mind is for pure, untainted Truth of God. Sin is a lie.There is no sin in God. Are you in God? What you believe God/Jesus has made you is what you are. If you believe in evil, then evil is what you will eventually create and experience in this life. If you believe that God/Jesus has cleansed you, purified you, made you whole and perfect then all the creative powers of God will see to it that your experience on earth will reflect abundantly more than you could ask or think. I many of those reading this right now there is a flood of negative, deceptive, un-truth swarming your mind telling you this cannot be true. Hold fast or the truth seed being planted here will be removed BY DECEIVERS. God loves all forever, TK

TK……….Good POST, i do agree, Gods Spirit, (intellect) gives us thoughts and works on our minds and is life. I do not believe satan is a being but an adversarial mindset driven by adversarial thoughts toward GOD. Anyone can be a satan or devil, when these thoughts are in control of them. MYSTERY RELIGION , has flooded mankind with false thinking, keeping them confused by mudding the waters of truth.

peace and love to you and yours……………….gene

October 23, 2009 at 3:54 pm#153032

KangarooJack

Participant

Quote (georg @ Oct. 23 2009,12:50)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,02:53)

Quote (georg @ Oct. 21 2009,14:56)

Hey, thinker

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

When did that all happen?

Georg

Hi Georg,
It all happened in ad70 when the old covenant came to its full end. Please note that Revelation 22:17 says that we invite people to come and take of the water of life. THE WATER OF LIFE IS IN THE NEW JERUSALEM. THE NEW JERUSALEM IS AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF DEATH.

thinker

You are obviously the Czar of confusion.

Georg

Georg,
That's it? You can offer no better reply? Death in Revelation 21 is CONDEMNATION. It cannot be referring to the abolition of physical death because Isaiah's prophecy says that physical death still occurs in the new earth,

Quote

17 “Behold, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.

19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.

20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
he who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere youth;
he who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed (Is. 65:17-20)

If Revealtion 21 is speaking about the abolition of physical death then why does Isaiah's prophecy of the new heaven and earth say that there will be aging and physical death? Death in Revelation 21 means CONDEMNATION according to Pauline usage in Romans 5. The “Czar of confusion” are the books on prophecy you read.

1. Explain why Isaiah's prophecy says that there will be aging and physical death in the new earth.

2. Explain why the gospel is still being offered in the new earth (22:17).

thinker

October 23, 2009 at 4:37 pm#153041

Participant

To All……….There is (NO) literial lake of Fire where human beings are cast into screaming out in eternal pain, why would GOD even kill someone that way, And at the same time tell us to love our enemies and claim to be a GOD of LOVE and Mercy. The Lake of fire is symbolic for intense Judgements , which those of the house hold of GOD are now going through, ” Brethern think it not strange as to THIS FIERY TRIAL THAT HAS TRIED (PURIFIED) YOU AS IF SOME STRANGE THING HAS HAPPENED UNTO YOU”> IT IS MORE PRECIOUS THEN GOLD TRIED IN FIRE. God disciplines and Scourges every son he excepts. All are to be tried in the lake fire , intense judgments of GOD. MYSTERY RELIGIONS uses LITERAL FIRE as a tool to create FEAR in the HEARTS and MINDS of People in order to get control over them and theirs lives. There religion is a religion of FEAR and Trepidations and has nothing to do with the GOD of LOVE, but a god of FEAR which they have created to Control others. While they live a life of luxury with the money they extort from people using the instrument of FEAR, they capture the unsuspecting and control them. REMEMBER (NOTHING) IS PERFECTED IN FEAR. FEAR has no part in the WORK of GOD, but LOVE, JOY and ALL GOODNESS and PEACE, if these thing be in you then HAPPY are you. God has (NOT) called you to FEAR, nor “GIVEN you a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of FEAR but of LOVE, power, and of a SOUND MIND”> Always remember that>

peace and love to you all……………gene

October 23, 2009 at 5:00 pm#153045

Participant

G,
Do you think greek logic plays a major part in scriptural exegesis and we can infer teachings from what we think God is?

You do not fear God obviously because adding to and subtracting from scripture is your way?

But if these special understandings you claim are not from scripture does that not prove you are not yet of the Spirit of God?

October 23, 2009 at 6:07 pm#153054

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 23 2009,22:13)

Your belief in this is denying what the Bible teaches:

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Ephesians 6:11-13

If this is true then what you are saying is false.

Revelation 20:2 (King James Version)

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Are you telling me this should be interpreted to mean that the angel laid hold on the negative THOUGHTs and bound the Thoughts for a thousand years? Really do not be decieved.

October 23, 2009 at 10:18 pm#153093

942767

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,03:32)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,10:52)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:44)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 22 2009,11:51)

Hi thethinker:

Posting the following scriptures for your consideration:

Quote

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It seems to me that these scriptures are saying that someone is born again the works of the devil have been destroyed in that person because he was practicing sin and was therefore was a child of the devil, and now, being born again, he is obeying the Word of God, and is a child of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Believers are born of Abraham. Get my point?

thinker

No, I don't get your point. Please explain as it relates to Satan already being in the lake of fire.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty,
Sorry. That men are children of the devil does not imply that the devil is here now anymore than our being the children of Abraham implies that Abraham is here now.

thinker

Hi thethinker:

Abraham is our father in the faith, we are not children of Abraham, but as born again Christians, we are children of God.

God is a Spirit. If we are born again, we are born of His Spirit, and He is the Father of our Spirit as we learn to apply the Word of God in our daily lives.

The devil is also a spirit, and is that spirit that dwells within all sinners, that is all who are practicing sin wilfully and have not been reconciled to God.

No, that spirit is still around. Just look all around you.

Quote

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 23, 2009 at 10:58 pm#153106

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2009,10:00)

G,
Do you think greek logic plays a major part in scriptural exegesis and we can infer teachings from what we think God is?

You do not fear God obviously because adding to and subtracting from scripture is your way?

But if these special understandings you claim are not from scripture does that not prove you are not yet of the Spirit of God?

Greeks were pagans following after strange gods.

October 23, 2009 at 10:59 pm#153107

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 23 2009,11:07)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 23 2009,22:13)

Your belief in this is denying what the Bible teaches:

If this is true then what you are saying is false.

Revelation 20:2 (King James Version)

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Are you telling me this should be interpreted to mean that the angel laid hold on the negative THOUGHTs and bound the Thoughts for a thousand years? Really do not be decieved.

Tk thinks this is the New heavens and Earth.

October 23, 2009 at 11:00 pm#153108

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,15:18)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,03:32)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,10:52)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:44)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 22 2009,11:51)

Hi thethinker:

Posting the following scriptures for your consideration:

Quote

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Believers are born of Abraham. Get my point?

thinker

No, I don't get your point. Please explain as it relates to Satan already being in the lake of fire.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty,
Sorry. That men are children of the devil does not imply that the devil is here now anymore than our being the children of Abraham implies that Abraham is here now.

thinker

Hi thethinker:

Abraham is our father in the faith, we are not children of Abraham, but as born again Christians, we are children of God.

God is a Spirit. If we are born again, we are born of His Spirit, and He is the Father of our Spirit as we learn to apply the Word of God in our daily lives.

The devil is also a spirit, and is that spirit that dwells within all sinners, that is all who are practicing sin wilfully and have not been reconciled to God.

No, that spirit is still around. Just look all around you.

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

Agreed.

October 24, 2009 at 12:28 am#153126

KangarooJack

Participant

Marty said:

Quote

Abraham is our father in the faith, we are not children of Abraham, but as born again Christians, we are children of God.

Con concurs:

Quote

Agreed.

TO ALL:
This is another example of futurist double talk. Marty and Con says that Abraham is our father but we are not his children. We are the children of God but not the children of Abraham.

According to Paul our being the children of God and the children of Abraham go hand in hand,

Galatians 3:26-29:
“26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” [Note: It is as Abraham's children that we are heirs of the promises]

There it is! We are children of God and of Abraham. How Marty and Con can believe that Abraham is our father without our being his children is beyond my comprehension.

I had said that futurists engage in a lot of double talk on the subject of satan. So let's summarize what we have so far:

1. CON: Satan lost his authority in principle but not in fact.

2. MARTY AND CON: Abraham is our father but we are not his children.

If these guys would just let satan be in the lake of fire where God threw him they would not be speaking such unintelligible nonsense.

thinker

October 24, 2009 at 12:45 am#153128

Participant

Hi TT,
He is not in the lake of fire.
If he was you would burn your feet crushing him.
Grafted into true Israel and walking in the Spirit means we would be sons of Abraham and of God.

But trinity is not of God or Abraham.
Not that way..walk here.

October 24, 2009 at 12:47 am#153129

942767

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,12:28)

Marty said:

Quote

Abraham is our father in the faith, we are not children of Abraham, but as born again Christians, we are children of God.

Con concurs:

Quote

Agreed.

TO ALL:
This is another example of futurist double talk. Marty and Con says that Abraham is our father but we are not his children. We are the children of God but not the children of Abraham.

According to Paul our being the children of God and the children of Abraham go hand in hand,

There it is! We are children of God and of Abraham. How Marty and Con can believe that Abraham is our father without our being his children is beyond my comprehension.

I had said that futurists engage in a lot of double talk on the subject of satan. So let's summarize what we have so far:

1. CON: Satan lost his authority in principle but not in fact.

2. MARTY AND CON: Abraham is our father but we are not his children.

If these guys would just let satan be in the lake of fire where God threw him they would not be speaking such unintelligible nonsense.

thinker

Hi thethinker:

Just trying to teach you the Word of God, but you just don't won't to listen.

Abraham is our father in the faith. I am a son of God. God is my Father in the Spirit.

Quote

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law,
BUT TO THAT WHICH IS OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM,who is the father of us all.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 24, 2009 at 12:50 am#153130

942767

Participant

Hi thethinker:

In other words, Jesus, Abraham and I are children of the Most High God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 24, 2009 at 1:35 am#153137

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,12:50)

Hi thethinker:

In other words, Jesus, Abraham and I are children of the Most High God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Good work Bishop Marty

October 24, 2009 at 3:56 am#153153

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 24 2009,05:00)

G,
Do you think greek logic plays a major part in scriptural exegesis and we can infer teachings from what we think God is?

You do not fear God obviously because adding to and subtracting from scripture is your way?

But if these special understandings you claim are not from scripture does that not prove you are not yet of the Spirit of God?

NIck……..It's you who believe in a literial lake of fire, and doctrines of devils and demons going around jumping in and out of people not I,it is you who are going along with “Greek Logic”, so why should talk about (inferred teachings ) when you believe in the preexistence of Jesus as some super being or demigod of some kind. You have never produced (ONE) scripture the (specifically) say Jesus preexisted his berth. SO LET GET OF THE GREEK LOGIC and Gnostic STUFF, you believe way more in Greek Logic and teachings of the Gnostic's then i do, by far. You just can't see it thats the problem.

Nick i have no fear of GOD because I love GOD so why should i fear him. I respect and reverence Him , but fear NO. Why should i FEAR who is SAVING ME…> “The fearful and the unbelieving shall have there part in the lake of fire”, now that should give you real fear seeing you fear and therefore do not believe GOD. “For he who fears is not being made perfect in LOVE”>

and please where did i (CLAIM SPECIAL) understandings , because you don't understand what i have said does not make it anything SPECIAL, others understand them. IMO

gene

October 24, 2009 at 4:20 am#153156

Participant

Gene,
Your argument is with the Spirit who inspired the writers.

October 24, 2009 at 4:53 am#153166

Participant

Nick…No my argument is with those who do not understand what the Spirit is saying. Not what is written.

gene

October 24, 2009 at 5:10 am#153169

Participant

Gene,
Does this spirit say special things to you that are not written?
And does this spirit tell you that what is written about satan and demons is not true?

test the spirits.

October 24, 2009 at 10:44 am#153263

KangarooJack

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,12:47)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,12:28)

Marty said:

Quote

Abraham is our father in the faith, we are not children of Abraham, but as born again Christians, we are children of God.

Con concurs:

Quote

Agreed.

TO ALL:
This is another example of futurist double talk. Marty and Con says that Abraham is our father but we are not his children. We are the children of God but not the children of Abraham.

According to Paul our being the children of God and the children of Abraham go hand in hand,

There it is! We are children of God and of Abraham. How Marty and Con can believe that Abraham is our father without our being his children is beyond my comprehension.

I had said that futurists engage in a lot of double talk on the subject of satan. So let's summarize what we have so far:

1. CON: Satan lost his authority in principle but not in fact.

2. MARTY AND CON: Abraham is our father but we are not his children.

If these guys would just let satan be in the lake of fire where God threw him they would not be speaking such unintelligible nonsense.

thinker

Hi thethinker:

Just trying to teach you the Word of God, but you just don't won't to listen.

Abraham is our father in the faith. I am a son of God. God is my Father in the Spirit.

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty,
If you are not a son of Abraham then you are not an heir of the promises. Paul said that we are the children of Abraham (Romans 4).

You are blatantly denying the gospel in favor of tradition.

Tradition has erred in the chronology it has given us. Jesus said that “NOW shall the prince of this world be THRUST OUT.” Paul said that satan would be broken to pieces (crushed) under the feet of those christians. He said it would happen to satan “shortly.”

Tradition has given us the wrong chronology in this manner. According to John's vision it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound. This takes us all the way back to the garden when he was cursed. This is supported by the fact that we have no biblical record of demon possession or any satanic activities throughout the old testament period. We don't see satan wreaking havoc again until the time of Jesus and the apostles.

So satan was loosed during the “little season” of Jesus and the apostolic church age. He was about to be judged. Jesus clearly said that satan was to be thrust out NOW. When Jesus returned in ad70 to judge Israel satan was also judged and he was cast into the lake of fire.

Questions:
1. Explain why John's vision says that the “ancient serpent” was bound and show how the binding of satan can be in our future.
2. Explain why there was no satanic activity in the old testament period and that satan did not wreak havoc until the time of Jesus and the apostles.
3. Explain why Jesus said, “NOW shall the prince of this world be thrust out.”
4. Explain why Paul said that satan would be “broken in pieces” SHORTLY. The word “shortly” cannot be a long time because Paul said it was to happen under THEIR feet.

And give up your error that we are not Abraham's children. Paul repeatedly said that we are and that those who follow in his footsteps are his sons. Your assertion that Abraham can be our father without our being his children is total nonsense.

thinker

October 24, 2009 at 10:49 am#153264