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Kerwin ………Not only have i not hear that, but no one else has either………..So your faith in GOD is “he (ALONE) saves a person while that person (ALSO) saves themselves. If that is true then GOD (ALONE) does (NOT) save them unless the person give GOD permission. Thats and oxymoron statement. Your theory (really is making the person the SAVIOR not GOD at ALL. GOD needs their approval first.
I have made not absurd guesses as to what they mean, I as well as others have posted clear scriptures that show the salvation process , which you seem unable to recognize or accept . You have turned the work of GOD into a self work, by thinking you save yourself. This is like “professing GOD, But denying the (POWER) there off?. Like saying GOD can save me (BUT) he need me to save myself first, absurd, that should be obvious to you and all. IMO
peace and love………………………gene
Hi kerwin.
I'll have to disagree with you on this. Scripture says “all is of God…” Ro.11:36 …36 seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!Eph.2:8-10
8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.I believe that God is in complete control of everthing, “Free will” is not biblical. God is operating all… See Eph.1:11 …according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
This scripture, in my opinion, confirms this, that God is in complete control, and He will do in accord with His will.
See also Isaiah 46:10 …Saying, All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do. verse11 …Indeed I speak, indeed I will bring it about!
Who can deny Gods words?Blessings, Jerry.
Chosenone wrote:
Quote I'll have to disagree with you on this. Scripture says “all is of God…” Ro.11:36 …36 seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!
First I do not take sides on the free choice v predestination debate because I believe both are true and that no true conflict exists between them. You say we are saved by God’s grace and I agree. The problem I see with what you say though is that scripture also states we save ourselves. To say that part of scripture is not true because it disagrees with your conclusions is to hold to a faulty conclusion. Both parts have to be true. It seems that certain people have a hard time understanding how both parts are true but to say one is mistranslated or miscribed is even harder to swallow. Still perhaps you provided an explanation in quoting Ephesians 2:8-10.
If you would not verse 10 where God states through Paul that believers are “being created in Christ Jesus for good works” I will point out that even before we enter Jesus’ death at baptism we were created by God for his reason. In creating us, God gave some a hunger and thirst for righteousness while others he gave a love of wickedness and each he created to serve his divine plan. What is free choice? Why do we choose what we choose? Is it because of factors that God chooses not to or cannot control? Hardly, as God determines even if a sparrow will fall from the sky and doesn’t he care for us just as much. In fact there is a part of us that God created to love or not to love his commands. Do you think God abandons us at that point? Not a chance, for he wants all men to be saved. Rather God set things up so that each and every man can “seek him and perhaps reach out to him and find him.” All of God’s actions are his grace. How can I be saved if God does not do all these things? How can I brag because I made a choice since God created me to make that choice? That certainly does not mean I did not make that choice or that God has puppet strings connected to me.
I believe that God is in complete control of everything, “Free will” is not biblical.
So Jesus did not have to deny his own will since he has no “free will” to deny?
Jesus also teaches his disciples to deny themselves and you say that teaching is unnecessary.
God is certainly in complete control but that does not mean that he does not test our hearts and in order to test our hearts we must have the ability to choose good or evil. God often instructs us to choose good over evil. Why does he bother if we have no choice?
Kerwin………..Now it seem you have come around and acknowledge that GOD ONLY SAVES, which i agree with. And if He causes us to make right choices then it is still him (CAUSING) it to happen, which i also agree with, and it is also good to see you realize there is no such thing as (FREE WILLS) but influences choices. Choice Yes, but influenced Choices, is correct. The problem with most is they don't realize there is Nothing new under the sun, including our Choices, it's a matter of right or wrong and both, all right and all wrong always existed. We are simply influenced to chose one or the other. GOD Spirit in US is influencing us to choose what is right and what is in agreement with the Fathers WILL. IMO
peace and love………………….gene
Nick……….And what part of GRACE do you apply to your (OWN) SO-called FREE WILL CHOICES, is that what you have learned from HIS WORD or are they you OWN WORDS and teachings ? . It is evident by (YOUR) words you can not feel GRACE, because according to you, you Choose according to your OWN so-called (FREE WILL')Choices, SO it is evident you have no need of any of GOD GRACE. do you? IMO
peace and love…………………………..gene
It is part of our human nature for us to feel and imagine that we have a considerable freedom of choice. From the moment when, as very young children, we learn to say, “Give me this,” or “I want that,” we are making decisions, and we tend to imagine that these decisions are entirely our own.
For instance, you who are reading this article, all decided to have a look at this particular moment.
Did you pick up this particular article to read, rather than something else, simply and solely because you decided to do so, or was it because God was operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight (Phil.2:13)? If you claim that the decision was solely yours, then you are refusing to admit the power of God’s Spirit operating in you.When we come to look carefully at the question of choice, we find how very few of the major factors that govern our lives can even remotely be considered to be of our own choosing. The main issues that have made us what we are, are not decided by us at all.
In the first place, we did not decide that we were to be humans. God has many creations—some spirit, some human, some animal. We remember being taught, when very young, a little bit of verse, which ran something like this, “I might have been a cow or a pig, and sold for beef or ham” and this particular stanza ended, “I’m glad I’m what I am.” Well, we are what we are only because God made us so, and not because we had any say in the matter.
Again, we had no choice as to whether we were to be male or female, and if we had been of the sex opposite to what we are, our whole lives would obviously have been entirely different. Nor had we any choice as to whether we were Jew or Gentile, colored or white, prince or pauper; nor in what century we were born (and we may well remind ourselves that we could not be of that ecclesia, which is the body of Christ, if we had lived and died before the crucifixion). So the time of our coming into the world is very important, yet we had no say in the matter. And so we could go on listing other items in which we have had no choice whatever—our nationality, our parentage, our early home life and education.
But still we tend to think that we have the freedom to choose, and certain scriptures seem to support that idea. “Choose ye this day whom ye will serve,” Joshua told the Israelites, “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord” (Joshua 24:15)
One of the most forthright scriptures seeming to support the idea of freedom of choice is that in Deuteronomy 30:19, where God says to the nation of Israel, “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.”
Therefore choose life! But the fact of the matter was that not one in the nation was capable of choosing life. Why? Because of the inherent weakness of the flesh.
If I do right then I do it only because God is with me as no one can do good without God. If I do evil then I do it because I am in rebellion against God for God does not do evil.
Hi,
If we are in God and He is in us then He is at work in us to will and to do.[Phil]God is not in all.
We must repent and be born againQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 12 2009,17:51) R2D2?
Hi Nick:And so, we are talking about robots. I wonder if God saved R2D2?
942767………If you consider that there is no new thing in earth, that does not already exist, as scripture says “there is nothing new under the sun”> That includes right and wrong, Good and Evil, also. If you accept that then you must also accept the God Created it (good and Evil) did not create itself. We simple do one or the other, So if you do the same good as another does what the difference between you and the person doing the good also, is your good a better good or a worse good? good is good right.
WE are made to (IMAGE) GOD not be HIM. so when you mirror or reflect or image of something are you not in a since a copy if it. Is that not what God the FATHER want us to become like him. Jesus said the servant is not above this master it is (enough) if he becomes just like Him. So you can call him a robot if you want to , but scripture say we are made in the image (mirror or reflection) of GOD. So we may be more like a robot then you and Nick think. I know man Hates that thought as they do the Idea of NO (free will) Choices, because man wants to think He is the master of His (OWN) destiny, which nothing could be further from the truth then that. Man does not want to be like GOD they want to be a GOD, so they hate the idea of any conforming to GOD. Man thinks himself to be a GOD, or so he thinks by his so-called (FREE WILL) thinking. IMO
peace and love…………………..gene
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