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Hi brother Theodorej,
Greetings to you after a long time. I am sorry to interrupt you. N.T doesn't agree with your view on Hell and eternal torment. Synoptic Gospels unanimous in upholding the existence of eternal torment or Hell fire for all those who are lawless and sinners which is also confirmed by Revelation.Here are such scriptures;
Matt 18:8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.”
Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Matthew 5:22 “…. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.”
Mark 9:43 “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands
to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:” also Mark 9:45
Jude 7 “……They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.So what do you?
Bible doesn't contradict as per inerrant believers.Hi Theodore,
I believe scripture says NOW is the time of judgment, Christ is watching and judging us right now, not some future second chance, … now.
Many have not heard the truth of Jesus or life circumstances have damaged what they had, our Heavenly Father is just and fair, which is why when the Son returns people of the Nations are judged on what they did do and what they didn't do.
Maybe theres something different for the Jews ? I do not know, I have not looked into it properly, I thought Israel was any believer in Christ… But I'm not sure.
I also believe the second death is the second DEATH… Inhalation in other words.
I do not believe the 'beast or false prophet' will be tormented forever and ever, The book of Revelations is symbolic, people misunderstand it and assume it means things when it does not.
The book of revelations should really only be understood by those who have the spirit in them and are able to truely see what it means, for the general 'public' the words of Jesus are what are understandable.
I do not believe I am saved, I do not have hope with anything like that, people say they are saved and are going to heaven, yet they do things, hurtfull things, wrong things. God is the judge, we are not the judge of even ourselves, all we can do is try our best and pray to do the right thing, to do what Heavenly Father wills, not what we will, because its usually wrong.
We only have NOW to get it right, and the thing which needs to come right is our heart which is where everything comes from good or bad. IMO.
Hi Adam and Gene.
The original word for eternal is aion, as is found in the Youngs Literal Translation. It actually means “ages or time or to the end of the age' which would make what Gene says as true ! HA ! Gene you could be right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young's_Literal_Translation
It would be good if that were true.
Adam………let me do some paraphrasing on Mar 9:43…..And if your hand offend (prevent) you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire (intense Judgment) that never shall be quenched: Gods Judgments will never be extinguished ever.
Now notice verse 44, it explains why it won't be,quenched or put out with that person, Why? Where their worm (filthy evil) dies Not, (and as a result) the fire (intense Judgment) is not be quenched or done away with . So as long as Evil is present so is GODS Judgment against it. But if we through the Spirit of God cut evil away from us the Fire (judgement ) is stopped or quenched. You see if you see it through Spiritual eyes it does make sense brother, and is not contradictory at all brother.Peace and love to you and yous…………….gene
Shimmer ………..Our God is awesome He not only tells us what is right and what is wrong , but He enables us to overcome evil , he empowers us by His Holy Spirit and encourages us by his great mercy and love for us all, we have more going for us then we even began to imagine. Not because who we are but because who He is. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 24 2010,02:21) Hi brother Theodorej,
Greetings to you after a long time. I am sorry to interrupt you. N.T doesn't agree with your view on Hell and eternal torment. Synoptic Gospels unanimous in upholding the existence of eternal torment or Hell fire for all those who are lawless and sinners which is also confirmed by Revelation.Here are such scriptures;
Matt 18:8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.”
Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Matthew 5:22 “…. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.”
Mark 9:43 “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands
to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:” also Mark 9:45
Jude 7 “……They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.So what do you?
Bible doesn't contradict as per inerrant believers.
Greetings G…..The scriptures you site confirm the lake of fire and the presense of the Devil,The false Prophet, however it doesn't confirm the presense of the billions of lost souls who were given another opportunity after the resurection and chose to reject Gods government/kingdom….They experienced the second death and ceased to exist…You see G the post you are responding to was prefaced with lets put down our bibles and stop the volley scripture citation…and examine the attributes of a loving,mercifull God who has a plan for all of our salvations….and ask ourselves how could it be any other way…Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 24 2010,06:14) Hi Theodore, I believe scripture says NOW is the time of judgment, Christ is watching and judging us right now, not some future second chance, … now.
Many have not heard the truth of Jesus or life circumstances have damaged what they had, our Heavenly Father is just and fair, which is why when the Son returns people of the Nations are judged on what they did do and what they didn't do.
Maybe theres something different for the Jews ? I do not know, I have not looked into it properly, I thought Israel was any believer in Christ… But I'm not sure.
I also believe the second death is the second DEATH… Inhalation in other words.
I do not believe the 'beast or false prophet' will be tormented forever and ever, The book of Revelations is symbolic, people misunderstand it and assume it means things when it does not.
The book of revelations should really only be understood by those who have the spirit in them and are able to truely see what it means, for the general 'public' the words of Jesus are what are understandable.
I do not believe I am saved, I do not have hope with anything like that, people say they are saved and are going to heaven, yet they do things, hurtfull things, wrong things. God is the judge, we are not the judge of even ourselves, all we can do is try our best and pray to do the right thing, to do what Heavenly Father wills, not what we will, because its usually wrong.
We only have NOW to get it right, and the thing which needs to come right is our heart which is where everything comes from good or bad. IMO.
Greetings Shimmer …..saved from what??? I agree with you on the premise that we are being judged as we speak…What we must realize is that the judgement we are presently under is one of mercy that will escalate to wrath if we do not change our ways…This nation was a blessed nation, as you can see we are under judgement and, as a result we are devided and confused with what is right and what is wrong….Gods mercy and patients will run out if we do not change…Those who have not heard the truth of Jesus will have an opportunity….we agree that the father is just and fair and above all mercifull…PS…it would be nice if you called me ted….we have spoken many times when you were posting under a different name…Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 24 2010,13:02) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 24 2010,06:14) Hi Theodore, I believe scripture says NOW is the time of judgment, Christ is watching and judging us right now, not some future second chance, … now.
Many have not heard the truth of Jesus or life circumstances have damaged what they had, our Heavenly Father is just and fair, which is why when the Son returns people of the Nations are judged on what they did do and what they didn't do.
Maybe theres something different for the Jews ? I do not know, I have not looked into it properly, I thought Israel was any believer in Christ… But I'm not sure.
I also believe the second death is the second DEATH… Inhalation in other words.
I do not believe the 'beast or false prophet' will be tormented forever and ever, The book of Revelations is symbolic, people misunderstand it and assume it means things when it does not.
The book of revelations should really only be understood by those who have the spirit in them and are able to truely see what it means, for the general 'public' the words of Jesus are what are understandable.
I do not believe I am saved, I do not have hope with anything like that, people say they are saved and are going to heaven, yet they do things, hurtfull things, wrong things. God is the judge, we are not the judge of even ourselves, all we can do is try our best and pray to do the right thing, to do what Heavenly Father wills, not what we will, because its usually wrong.
We only have NOW to get it right, and the thing which needs to come right is our heart which is where everything comes from good or bad. IMO.
Greetings Shimmer …..saved from what??? I agree with you on the premise that we are being judged as we speak…What we must realize is that the judgement we are presently under is one of mercy that will escalate to wrath if we do not change our ways…This nation was a blessed nation, as you can see we are under judgement and, as a result we are devided and confused with what is right and what is wrong….Gods mercy and patients will run out if we do not change…Those who have not heard the truth of Jesus will have an opportunity….we agree that the father is just and fair and above all mercifull…PS…it would be nice if you called me ted….we have spoken many times when you were posting under a different name…
Ted, Sorry,Saved from…..eternal destruction.
Saved from….. harsh judgment and harsh punishment, I guess.
I do not believe in a thousand year millennium though I could be convinced otherwise. To me it doesn't make any sense to have it. We have now, we have scripture saying now is the only time…then is the judgment.
This is amillennial and is what Orthodox believe, disputed among the earliest writings it was too.
I see no point in there being a thousand years, what IS the point ?
The book of Revelation is written – many believe – not in chronological order, but as if John was standing in a room looking around at all these different events happening..look here…look there, is it in order ? Are their things flashing back to what has already happened ? Are things repeated ? etc.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 24 2010,09:49) Shimmer ………..Our God is awesome He not only tells us what is right and what is wrong , but He enables us to overcome evil , he empowers us by His Holy Spirit and encourages us by his great mercy and love for us all, we have more going for us then we even began to imagine. Not because who we are but because who He is. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Yes Gene. And no matter how lost we can feel God is still there willing to take us back, willing to listen.We are all human, we all have the same fears, not knowing and so on, peace and love to you and yours too Gene.
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