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Jerry,
As I told you previously I agree with Jesus when he states that those who do not believe, i.e. understand, scripture will not understand me when I say the same thing that scripture already states. Since this is my conviction I see no reason to address where and how you have twisted scripture because of your lack of true understanding as you would not believe me anyways. Instead I will go to the vary basics of the true message of the good news and work on from there trusting that if you seek God with all your soul that the rest will be made clear to you in time.
I am insistent about Matthew 5:6 and other similar passages because that is where the coming of the Spirit of righteousness is foretold. To receive the spirit of righteousness and to live by it is critically necessary that you believe that you will stop sinning in this world by the power of God if you choose to make Jesus the King of your life.
In addition I used scripture from both Paul’s time teaching and Jesus to show that both taught this lessen to those that could understand though Jesus was speaking of a time yet to come and Paul was speaking of a time that had come.
Those who discern the truth according to God’s intentions understand that the word of God is complete in them when they reach full maturity in the Anointed and stop sinning for then they become a living embodiment of the word.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (chosenone @ July 14 2010,09:23) JA.
Quote The whole of what you speak is unscriptural.
Of course you won't quote of “what I speak that is unscriptural”, because you are lying, you won't show me where I said such a thing.Quote The whole of the Gospel speaks against you.
Again, you won't show any examples, you just rant falsehoods.Quote Which verse out of the whole Scriptures should I pick. Is anyone worse or better than another when they are all against you.
Just one would be fine, any one that you say “when they are all against you”.Quote Who agrees with one thing, consistently, with what you say. No one, 'not one'.
Just one example of “what I say” that no one agrees with, would be sufficient. JUST ONE.Quote It is possible for your accuser to be correctly accusing you. In your case, definitely so.)
Yes, an example of one of my posts that “correctly accuses me”, would be fine.Now I will repeat my Challenge “SHOW ME ONE EXAMPLE, JUST ONE, OF MY POSTS THAT YOU SAY WHAT YOU ACCUSE”.
I'm sure you'll just reply with another accusation or falsehood,the same as your last bit of nonsense.
Jerry.
JA,
The whole point of this debate, if you can call it that, is your false wittnessing against me. You accuse me of saying things I never said, and when I ask you to show me an example, you can't.
And now, because you realise you can't prove your lies that you accuse me of, you try and divert the subject.Quote Tell you what, CO. Find me ONE SINGLE POST IN THIS WHOLE FORUM where I have been SCRIPTURALLY WRONG… and have it validated by ONE OTHER. Please.
I have never accused you of saying something you haven't said, the subject here is not questioning about what one believes is scripturally sound or unsound, the question is about you lying, false witnessing, and accusing me of saying things I never said.
So if you won't, because you can't, show me that what you say I said is unscriptual, it's not much use me continuing to correspond with a slanderer such as yourself.
Good bye and God Bless.Jerry.
Quote (barley @ July 13 2010,14:18) Quote (karmarie @ July 11 2010,11:37) Quote (barley @ July 11 2010,12:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,15:48) Hi B,
No the book of Romans was written to the saved.
read chapter 1.Paul in the tenth chapter was encouraging those who had been reborn of the Spirit to walk in the Spirit.
If we have received the Spirit we must let the Spirit control our lives[gal5.25]To teach another way into the kingdom than the doorway of Christ offered in Acts 2 and jn 10 is unwise.
You bring up a most interesting point. One that many people have not been aware of. That is that different books and even passages are not all addressed to the same group of peoples. This knowledge can help us tremendously when some apparent contradictions come up. Why does one passage say one thing and another seems to contradict it? One reason is that one passage may have been written specifically to one group of people and the other to another group of people, or for that matter to one individual rather than another individual. Joseph revealing the significance of the baker's dream vs. the butler's dream is one of many examples. God told Moses to lead the children of Israel out of Egypt, he did not tell you or me. God told Israel that a redeemer is coming, He tells us that the redeemer came, did what was required of him on earth, and then was ascended to God's own right hand. These are very clear and obvious examples. There are passages that are more subtle, but important as well.
Indeed the book of Romans was written to the saved, but it does include portions that address the needs of the unsaved. Namely, the Judeans and Gentiles. In Romans 9 Paul, by revelation, expresses his concerns for Israel. In verse 4 he makes it clear who he is concerned about. In verse 24, he brings in the subject of the Gentiles. Romans 10:1 is very telling. “Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Paul is informing his brethren, that Israel needs to be saved. And that he prays and desires that they be saved. Verse 2, they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. In verse 9 and 10, we are given the knowledge of the solution for Israel and the Gentiles, that is, how to get saved. Paul continues till chapter 12 to share his heart regarding Israel and the Gentiles. Then, of course, he begins with the saved again.
Thanks for bringing up such an important point.
Hi Barley and Nick, if I understand right , Paul when speaking of “Isreal” is speaking of the “New Isreal” Isreal became all who followed Christ, it was no longer a nation or race. It was Jews and Gentiles, together. Believers in Christ, which is why “all Isreal will be saved”
Good question.Israel was the name of a man, a nation, a race and without looking up every passage in the OT, maybe some other things.
In the Epistles, Israel is used similarly. But we must add a new meaning as you mentioned. In Galatians 6:16, the word teaches that the old Israel had been replaced by those who believed on the name of the son of God. This new Israel is made up of both Judeans and Gentiles who got born again. Those who chose to believe in who Jesus Christ is and what he accomplished. Having checked Young's concordance quickly, it seems that this verse is the only place in the NT that refers to those born again as Israel.
Israel as a nation, as a race rejected God's Messiah. As seen in Acts, Paul first spoke to Judeans, but moved onto the Gentiles rather quickly because of the Judeans unbelief. Although genetically of Israel, the were not believers like Israel was.
Reflecting on the subject and its presentation in the word, I thought it appropriate to point out more emphatically, the fact that only in Galatians is the Christian believers called Israel. Believers are described in many other ways as well.We are children of God. Romans 8:14,16,17. I John 3:1,2
We have been marked out beforehand, [predestinated] Romans 8:29
We have been given the measure of faith. Romans 12:3. Having been given the measure of faith, we are now instructed on how to use it for the glory of God, and to benefit others and ourselves.
We are members in particular of the body of Christ. I Corinthians 12:12ff.
As we apply ourselves to carry out God's will for our lives, we become new creatures in Christ. II Corinthians 5:17. We are members of the body of Christ, as we do our part in the body, we are “in Christ” from a functioning point of view. We are members if we do nothing, but we benefit no one if we ignore the truth. The hand could do nothing as if lame, we are not lame, we do what we need to do.
We are ambassadors for Christ. II Corinthians 5:20
We are workers together with God. II Corinthians 6:1.
Ephesians 1:4 God chose us before the foundations of the world, [his foreknowledge], that we should be holy and blameless before him in love.
My point being that being called Israel is only one of many qualities that God attributes to us and desires that we utilize.
Being a member in the body is about a half of a chapter.
barley…………Good post brother. I also agree with you on this, there are many qualities of a true believer given him by God.
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (chosenone @ July 10 2010,16:35) Hi kerwin.
Thanks for your reply. You say…Quote What did Jesus teach the man who come to him and asked. Did he not teach him that in order to be saved he must actually practice in perfection the law of love your neighbor as God intends you to?
You must understand that Jesus was “commissioned” to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. His commission was to them, and to them only. In that era, the gentiles had no part with God, see Eph.12:11-12… 11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands —
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
To sum up, His (Jesus) message was not for the 'nations', it was for Israel, under the 'old covenant', still under the “law”. A much different means of entering the “kingdom”, then now, under the covenant of “the grace of God”, that we gentiles and believing Jews are now under.Quote We must beware that we do not put our happiness and security in the things of this world but instead trust in God to do what is right no matter what he chooses to do. This is possible only if we obey all the teachings of Jesus for all things are possible through God.
So you see that your statement… “This is possible only if we obey all the teachings of Jesus for all things are possible through God”, is not applicable. The covenant given to Israel is completely different to the present covenant in effect now.
Because the their rejection of Jesus, their promised Messiah, God has divorsed His “chosen people” (Israel) and turned to the “nations”, See Acts.13:46… 46 Being bold, both Paul and Barnabas, say, “To you (Israel) first was it necessary that the word of God be spoken. Yet, since, in fact, you are thrusting it away, and are judging yourselves not worthy of eonian life, lo! we are turning to the nations.This understanding of scripture is what Paul meant when he said in 2.Tim.2:15… Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth.
God Bless, Jerry.
Jerry,You have hit the nail on the head.
If I might, I would like to expound on what you have well written.
Jesus Christ was commissioned to Israel, to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was not commissioned to the Gentiles. The Gentile woman who requested help for her possessed daughter is an example of Jesus Christ working within his calling. He would not even answer her pleas for help. He knew his job description and stuck with it. Matthew 15:22-28 and Mark 7:25-30. Especially Matthew 15:24. The women found a way for Jesus to help. Matthew 15:27. And Jesus Christ praised her for her persistent believing. Her daughter was healed.
This idea is a difficult one for many people. They have been schooled to revere the teachings of Jesus Christ so much, that they even have red letter editions of the Bible. All of God's words are necessary. Even Job's words in Job 3:25. Of course, Jesus' words are important, but they were spoken with the lost sheep of the house of Israel in mind, not the followers of the way as described in say the book of Acts.
We need to appreciate Jesus Christ for all the things he accomplished, not just the words he spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. His death on the cross was for us. Few words were spoken there. His actions spoke loudly. His resurrection marked him out as the son of God with power. Romans 1:4. His ascension, well, words fail. He was seated on the right hand of God. Ephesians 2:6 We were made to sit together with him. Wow. We have this already, from God's point of view. We do not need to seek to find God, we are seated together with Christ at God's right hand. We are right next to him. If we would only believe what God has already done for us through His son's works.
Why do Christians seek victory? We have it. Romans 8:37. II Corinthians 2:14.
Why are we so consumed with doing works? God had made so much freely available to us. I Corinthians 2:12.
Why are we so consumed with doing works to obtain righteousness? We have the righteousness of God, right now. II Corinthians 5:21. Romans 3:22 and the context.
We do not seek justification, we have it. Romans 3:24,25; 5:18,19 Galatians 2:16,20-21; 3:11-13; 5:1-6. Romans 5:1.
We have peace with God, we do not fear God, we love Him. We have peace with God. Romans 5:1.
Jesus Christ accomplished all these things and many more for us. These things were not available while Jesus Christ was on the earth. They were not available until all was accomplished by JC.
If we ignore our righteousness, our justification, our peace, are we not ignoring what Jesus Christ did for us?
He did much more than teach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, He made us righteous in the sight of God, he justified us, we are at peace with God. We now can go boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16, Ephesians 3:12.
Israel in the gospels was seeking access to God, we have it by the accomplished works of Jesus Christ.
I am getting a little long winded here, there is so much to say.
You have hit the nail on the head.
Thanks.
Hi barley,
I agree with much of your post. At the end of your post you say…Quote Not all will choose to be saved. But salvation has been made available to all. Only two things are required. Two simple things. Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. It can't get any simpler. What God did for us through the works of Jesus Christ made it that simple. That is, before the accomplished works of Jesus Christ, salvation was dependent on works, ie, doing the law, but doing it believingly. Now it is a gift of God. What a Lord God! What a lord Jesus Christ!
In my opinion, you put too much on what we must do. I believe that it is ALL of God, nothing we do, but “His achievement are we” (Eph.2:10).
A very good post though, keep up the good work.Keep away from those that offer a “one eternal gospel for all', this is non-biblical. and false teaching.
God Bless, Jerry.[/quote]
Jerry,
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I understand what you are saying, and I agree from your point of view. Time and space does not permit anyone to clarify all points being made. God had Jesus Christ do all the works, so that salvation would not be of works. I think this is the point you were making.
Confessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus, and believing in our hearts that God raised him from the dead is not works. It is a decision. Salvation because of the accomplished works of Jesus Christ is a free ride. God gave us the ticket and put us on the bus. All we did is indicate we wanted it, by confessing and believing. If some one insists on calling that works, it is not works compared to the works that Jesus Christ did to make it that simple for us.I am not sure what your last sentence is referring to, so I will not address it.
barley
Quote (karmarie @ July 08 2010,23:47) Good question Chosenone, I wonder that too. Good answer Gene
Good post Barley but can it really be as easy as you and Malysc say? So I can say Jesus is Lord, then believe God raised him from the dead, and im saved? Even if I then go on to commit horrible crimes, etc etc, never giving another thought to God not another prayer, nothing.
It cant be that easy.
Many will say 'Lord Lord' but He never knew them. They are workers of lawlessness?
I understand your concerns about how easy it seems.Yet if you had to do some works then it would not be of grace, it would be works, Ephesians makes it clear that it is not of works. If we could work for it we would be earning it, it would be wages, not a gift.
I have given this some thought and reviewed scripture in my mind so I could understand this better myself.
Let's look at some stuff and as you read this, I would expect that this would spark some thoughts in your mind that would clarify this in your thinking.
I am sure you are born again, saved, etc., but for illustration purposes, I will approach this subject as if speaking to someone who has not made the decision to confess and believe.
Please bear with me.
What exactly is God requiring of us when we confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus. Whether out loud or under our breath is not stated. Just confess the savior from sin, the Lord Jesus.
For some one who has some scriptural teaching in their background, confessing Jesus as Lord is a huge decision from some points of view.
Yes, God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with holy spirit and with power and he went around doing good, healing all that were oppressed of the devil, for God was with him. Acts 10:38.
Who wouldn't want a lord that does good for them? I want deliverance from all oppression. Every one would. I will gladly make Jesus Lord in my life. Who wouldn't want to be like him? Who wouldn't want to make him lord so that we could learn to be like him?
However, Jesus Christ in all his doings, was condemned by the religious elite and suffered the most horrible of torture and death. Are you still sure that you want to make him lord? To make him lord means to be a servant of his. To go where he says to go, to do what he says to do, to say what he says needs to be said. To follow him, not only his teachings, but also to follow him where he leads.
There were at least 10 attempts on his life that are recorded in the scripture. Are you still sure you want to make him lord?
His prayer in the garden was to see if there was another way to accomplish God's purposes in his life. He knew from the scripture what was before him. One scripture that comes to mind is about the plowers making deep their furrows on my back, or something to that effect. My dad spanked me, and it hurt, yet his spankings were a warning to me to do what is right and to stick with it, yet never did he draw blood or come close to it. Jesus Christ was going to let the worst that Satan could do to him happen, so that the price for Adam's and Eve's sin could be paid for. Are you still sure you want to make Jesus Lord?
I think by now you see my point. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, are you ready to say Jesus is Lord, from the heart?
The decision to have Jesus as Lord is a decision. Decisions require thought and deliberation.
But God raised him from the dead.
Are you now ready to make Jesus Lord in your life?
Galatians for one place says we were crucified with him. Romans 6 also makes the same point.
My point being is that God is well aware of the huge commitment we are making, a commitment we are not qualified to carry out, yet God knowing that, enables us once we have made that commitment. He gives us salvation, and as we grow into it, work to do.
Salvation is a change of lordship, it is not immediate release from all our bad habits. That take time and a lot of work. Read I Corinthians, that group of believers were having a lot of challenges to “get with the program”. Their past was not easy for them to get over. They had to learn the scriptures and learn how to apply it in their lives. They had salvation, but God knowing that they were carried away with dumb idols, even as they were led, I Cor 12:2, had to have Paul teach them how to rise above their past, and stay there. God knows we will fill our spiritual diaper once in a while, He is patient as he potty trains us. Although some ever stay in diapers, they still have salvation, but they are not going to enjoy the blessings in this life that God has in store for them as they do the word, not hear only. Likewise, those who like the smell of dirty diapers and stay in them, will not be earning eternal rewards, they will not receive an inheritance.
We must keep in mind the difference between being born again into the family of God, and the receiving an inheritance. Inheritances are given to those who the father is pleased with. A person may have 20 children, but only two or three may have pleased the Father. Only the two or three will receive the greater inheritance. The rebellious may lose their inheritance, yet they are still sons and daughters of the Father, but have not earned an inheritance.
Maybe you are more familiar with this verse, and can find it more easily. Is there not a verse that states something to the effect that the murderers, whoremongers [spiritually speaking, that is, seeking after other gods, idolaters], etc. would live outside the city, whereas the disciples would live in the city?
I speak a little loosely here for illustration purposes.
I think that may help clear up some of your concerns.
God is love. God is merciful and gracious. What a God, what a lord Jesus Christ.
PS. See Acts 15:10, Peter speaking of living under the law of Moses, “Now therefore, why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear.”
Thank God that salvation is a gift, we could never of ourselves earn it.
Else what need would we have of a savior?
Enjoy your salvation. It is one of God's gifts to you.
Quote (chosenone @ July 09 2010,13:21) Looking at the various reasons given for obtaining salvation, it is a wonder anyone will be saved. I have yet to see any two perons who agree on what is required for salvation. Is our God a God of confusion?
I personally brlieve that God, our “Father,” will save everyone, including Judas, and satan himself. I know this will result in a wave of protest from many on this site. I will be subjected to much critizism, and may even be barred fron this site.
I have purposely neglected to refer to any scripture to support my views, but will do so if allowed to to remain on this site.
To give a quick review of what I believe to be Gods plan of salvation of all, I will say that Gods plan for creation is likened to a play. God is the author, and His creation is the stage, He is “operating ALL in accord of the cousel of His will” (Eph.1:110). He has 'created evil', He has 'made the wicked', and He will perfect all mankind through suffering. Those that are 'wicked' have a part to play in His creation. Those that do evil, are there for a purpose, all in accord with Gods will. (Eph.1:11).
Gods will is to be “All in all” (1Cor.15:28), and I'm sure He will accomplish just that.
I will awaite the onslot that is sure to come, but this is my opinion.God Bless you all, Jerry.
Jerry,
God is merciful, but there are limits to His mercy. God is just, there are consequences to rejecting God and His son, Jesus Christ.
Have you considered verses such as Romans 9:6-8. Being of the right bloodline is not going to get anyone saved. Only those who believe will be saved. God will sort them out by the standards of the scripture He has given to us. In the book of Revelation there is a resurrection of the unjust, this is the second resurrection. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just. Those who are among the resurrection of the unjust have the second death. God will make sure they understand who He is, and that they fully rejected Him and they will reap the seed they sowed. They rejected God, who is the source of all life. With out God, who they rejected, they have no life. Thus the second death, they did it to themselves. In spite of everything God has done, they did it to themselves. God gave them what they wanted. No God, no life.
The word “all” can be utilized in two different ways in scripture and in everyday speaking.
All could mean “all without exception”
It could also mean ” all within a distinction”
Everyone in the veterans meeting stood up to say the pledge of allegiance. Everyone? in the whole world? No, everyone in the veteran's meeting.
All men are descendants of Adam and Eve. Everyone? Yes , everyone without exception.
Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
All what things? The things listed in verse 35. And then he elaborates in verses 38-39, Those lists do not have sin listed. When we sin we fall short, the sooner we pick ourselves up and get going, the sooner our more than conqueror status will bloom. We are more than conquerors because God's love for us.
God's love for us more apparent in our lives because we choose to love Him who first loved us. God's love is allowed to flow more freely into our lives because of our free will, loving obedience to Him.There have been some very good posts on here, but I would like to offer an important side note to the discussion.
It is common among christians to mix the two responsibilities/jobs of christ and therefore become confused.
1. Christ had a responsibility to become a perfected son. Thought he was always sinless that does not mean perfected. He was perfected by the things he suffered. He was perfected in his tests and overcoming. This perfecting/maturing process is clear in scripture. In this Christ fulfills his responsibility as our example and ties in with his second mission. He shows us a path that we can follow toward perfection.
2. Christ carried the mantle of the Jewish Messiah. He was sent to the Jews to lead them back to their father. When they rejected him, salvation was opened up to the Gentiles at which time he also became a messiah/savior to the Gentiles. The shedding of blood confirmed a covenant with both Jew and Gentile. The wall of separation between the two was taken down.-martian ……….Good points, barely, have you ever considered that the words Just (is implying the justified) and the word Un-Just is implies the un-justified and act of being in the position of something. We are told the Just live By Faith in Christ, not by their works of righteousness. Just wanted to through that out and see what you think brother.
peace and love to you all…………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ July 10 2010,22:56) Jerry, What you believe and what scripture teaches are plainly two different things and yet you choose to believe what is not true.
You are correct that Jesus himself was only sent to the Hebrew people but even then he taught the Samaritan woman by the well and told her that he had water that would give her eternal life. You should realize that Samaritans are not Jews but rather Gentiles that adopted the Law and practice the Samaritanism religion. I suppose their religion could be considered a heretical Jewish faith but if you call Jews because of that then you would have to call any Christian a Jew as well.
Was Jesus in error when he did that?
If you understood prophecy you would God spoke of the time of Jesus and stated quite clearly that his Word would go out from Jerusalem. Though Jesus was sent only to the Jews his words were not reserved for the Jews but were expanded to all nations when the new covenant was established in fulfillment of those prophecies. The question then becomes do you believe.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Kerwin,Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Your comments on the women at the well, a Samaritan are most intriguing. Under this same subject of salvation I posted some information regarding the Syrophonecian woman who sought out Jesus' help for her daughter who was possessed with a devil. Jesus Christ recognized her as a Gentile and initially did not even so much as answer a word to her. How did Jesus know she was a Gentile? I do not know. But it had to have been clear to him somehow. How? I don't know. The scripture does not say, therefore, we don't need to know.
Based on my reading, the actual background of the Samaritans seems cloudy. If they were Gentiles, it seems that they were somewhat converts to Judaism, and thus had limited acceptance in Israel. Rahab, of Jericho, was a Gentile and she is in the Christ line. Likewise Ruth. Boaz married her. There are clear warnings from God in the OT about believers marrying unbelievers. Both Rahab and Ruth must have been clearly accepted as believers. There is clearly a point where Gentile converts are accepted into Israel, at least amongst the believers.
It would seem that the Samaritans could fall into this category.
If the women at the well was strictly a Gentile, Jesus Christ would not have bothered. He would have refrained from engaging with her in conversation, seeing that she would not be considered one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The Samaritians may have “lived on the wrong side of the tracks” as far as the snobbish elite may have been concerned. Jesus Christ did not see it that way. He reached out to her because it was within the context of his ministry to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel”
barley
Quote (barley @ July 18 2010,01:18) Quote (chosenone @ July 10 2010,16:35) Hi kerwin.
Thanks for your reply. You say…Quote What did Jesus teach the man who come to him and asked. Did he not teach him that in order to be saved he must actually practice in perfection the law of love your neighbor as God intends you to?
You must understand that Jesus was “commissioned” to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. His commission was to them, and to them only. In that era, the gentiles had no part with God, see Eph.12:11-12… 11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands —
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
To sum up, His (Jesus) message was not for the 'nations', it was for Israel, under the 'old covenant', still under the “law”. A much different means of entering the “kingdom”, then now, under the covenant of “the grace of God”, that we gentiles and believing Jews are now under.Quote We must beware that we do not put our happiness and security in the things of this world but instead trust in God to do what is right no matter what he chooses to do. This is possible only if we obey all the teachings of Jesus for all things are possible through God.
So you see that your statement… “This is possible only if we obey all the teachings of Jesus for all things are possible through God”, is not applicable. The covenant given to Israel is completely different to the present covenant in effect now.
Because the their rejection of Jesus, their promised Messiah, God has divorsed His “chosen people” (Israel) and turned to the “nations”, See Acts.13:46… 46 Being bold, both Paul and Barnabas, say, “To you (Israel) first was it necessary that the word of God be spoken. Yet, since, in fact, you are thrusting it away, and are judging yourselves not worthy of eonian life, lo! we are turning to the nations.This understanding of scripture is what Paul meant when he said in 2.Tim.2:15… Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth.
God Bless, Jerry.
Jerry,You have hit the nail on the head.
If I might, I would like to expound on what you have well written.
Jesus Christ was commissioned to Israel, to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was not commissioned to the Gentiles. The Gentile woman who requested help for her possessed daughter is an example of Jesus Christ working within his calling. He would not even answer her pleas for help. He knew his job description and stuck with it. Matthew 15:22-28 and Mark 7:25-30. Especially Matthew 15:24. The women found a way for Jesus to help. Matthew 15:27. And Jesus Christ praised her for her persistent believing. Her daughter was healed.
This idea is a difficult one for many people. They have been schooled to revere the teachings of Jesus Christ so much, that they even have red letter editions of the Bible. All of God's words are necessary. Even Job's words in Job 3:25. Of course, Jesus' words are important, but they were spoken with the lost sheep of the house of Israel in mind, not the followers of the way as described in say the book of Acts.
We need to appreciate Jesus Christ for all the things he accomplished, not just the words he spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. His death on the cross was for us. Few words were spoken there. His actions spoke loudly. His resurrection marked him out as the son of God with power. Romans 1:4. His ascension, well, words fail. He was seated on the right hand of God. Ephesians 2:6 We were made to sit together with him. Wow. We have this already, from God's point of view. We do not need to seek to find God, we are seated together with Christ at God's right hand. We are right next to him. If we would only believe what God has already done for us through His son's works.
Why do Christians seek victory? We have it. Romans 8:37. II Corinthians 2:14.
Why are we so consumed with doing works? God had made so much freely available to us. I Corinthians 2:12.
Why are we so consumed with doing works to obtain righteousness? We have the righteousness of God, right now. II Corinthians 5:21. Romans 3:22 and the context.
We do not seek justification, we have it. Romans 3:24,25; 5:18,19 Galatians 2:16,20-21; 3:11-13; 5:1-6. Romans 5:1.
We have peace with God, we do not fear God, we love Him. We have peace with God. Romans 5:1.
Jesus Christ accomplished all these things and many more for us. These things were not available while Jesus Christ was on the earth. They were not available until all was accomplished by JC.
If we ignore our righteousness, our justification, our peace, are we not ignoring what Jesus Christ did for us?
He did much more than teach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, He made us righteous in the sight of God, he justified us, we are at peace with God. We now can go boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16, Ephesians 3:12.
Israel in the gospels was seeking access to God, we have it by the accomplished works of Jesus Christ.
I am getting a little long winded here, there is so much to say.
You have hit the nail on the head.
Thanks.
One of Jesus Christ's unspoken works is noted in the scripture, John 19:30. “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost”Jesus Christ had suffered the worst in torture and humiliation, yet, he knew in God's plan, that he was doing exactly what God wanted him to be doing. And he was a proud doer of it. He held his head high. The world, the unbelievers thought they had him. They thought they had shamed and humiliated him as much as is possible. Little did they know. Only in the moments preceding his death did he bow his head. Jesus Christ was not ashamed. He was doing his Father's will. Hebrews 12:2. Until then, he held his head high. Jesus Christ's actions speak volumes.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 18 2010,07:35) Hi B,
Or is it because the God of love in him is merciful?
Nick,Am I B?
barley
Barley,
The Samaritans themselves claim decent from the northern tribes of Israel but scripture declares they are descendants of Gentiles that the Assyrian King had settle Israel, 2 Kings 17:24-41.
They are also circumcised so if you mean so technically they are not called gentiles.
They still exist though their numbers have declined.
The Jews treated them as both Jews and non-Jews depending on the circumstances though the banning of Jews associating with Samaritans was also a ban of Jews,John 4:9, associating with non-Jews. Acts 10:28. Jesus obviously chose to ignore the ban.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 18 2010,04:33) -martian ……….Good points, barely, have you ever considered that the words Just (is implying the justified) and the word Un-Just is implies the un-justified and act of being in the position of something. We are told the Just live By Faith in Christ, not by their works of righteousness. Just wanted to through that out and see what you think brother. peace and love to you all…………………….gene
Dear Sir,Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the lord Jesus Christ.
Another synonym for just according to some, is righteous. The righteous shall live by believing. Abraham believed God, and God counted that as righteousness to him. Romans 4. The righteous, those who want to do and live the right things of God, the right way, do so by believing the scriptures. Of course, some only believe enough to become saved. Romans 10:9-10. Some want to do more. Much more.
Who did Abraham glorify? God. Abe and Sarah did the human act that allowed God to go to work in the situation. Abe and Sarah, eventually believed. It took about ten years after God made the promise that Abe and Sarah actually believed. They had to rise up in their believing to appropriate the promise of God to them.
Were they righteous in those ten years? Yes, they had heard the promise of God and worked to accomplish it. Did they try to accomplish God's promise by their own ideas? Yes, Abraham had a son by Hagar. That is not what God promised or intended. Abe and Sarah were frustrated by their lack of results up to that time and tried to take matters into their own hands. That was a mistake. Yet, God did not break his promise to them. God's promise was faithful to them, they had to learn to be faithful to him and to his promise. Hebrews 11 teaches that Sarah judged Him faithful who had promised. verse 11. That did not happen overnight.
We first want the kingdom of God and His righteousness in our lives. That is righteous.
For God, the ends do not justify the means. God's acts are righteous from beginning to end. We can live the same way. We want to live righteously, we do so by believing scripture.
Let us consider one example. It is possible to love hypocritically, or with partiality. However, Romans 12:9 tells us to “Let love be without dissimulation.” Pure love, not love with ulterior motives. It is possible to love with pure heart. We can do it. That is righteous. It will take time and effort on our part to achieve that.
For me, I was easy for me to share God's word with people on controversial subjects. I was right and they were wrong. I wanted to show how right I was and how wrong they were. Yet, even if it was true what I was saying, the motive and the process was wrong. I have since learned much more clearly that love for God and others is the reason for us to share scripture, not selfish pride. Yes we can share scripture with the wrong motive. But we can also share it with the right motive.
The righteous shall live by believing.
Some of my thoughts on your post.
barley
Quote (barley @ July 23 2010,10:38) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 18 2010,04:33) -martian ……….Good points, barely, have you ever considered that the words Just (is implying the justified) and the word Un-Just is implies the un-justified and act of being in the position of something. We are told the Just live By Faith in Christ, not by their works of righteousness. Just wanted to through that out and see what you think brother. peace and love to you all…………………….gene
Dear Sir,Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the lord Jesus Christ.
Another synonym for just according to some, is righteous. The righteous shall live by believing. Abraham believed God, and God counted that as righteousness to him. Romans 4. The righteous, those who want to do and live the right things of God, the right way, do so by believing the scriptures. Of course, some only believe enough to become saved. Romans 10:9-10. Some want to do more. Much more.
Who did Abraham glorify? God. Abe and Sarah did the human act that allowed God to go to work in the situation. Abe and Sarah, eventually believed. It took about ten years after God made the promise that Abe and Sarah actually believed. They had to rise up in their believing to appropriate the promise of God to them.
Were they righteous in those ten years? Yes, they had heard the promise of God and worked to accomplish it. Did they try to accomplish God's promise by their own ideas? Yes, Abraham had a son by Hagar. That is not what God promised or intended. Abe and Sarah were frustrated by their lack of results up to that time and tried to take matters into their own hands. That was a mistake. Yet, God did not break his promise to them. God's promise was faithful to them, they had to learn to be faithful to him and to his promise. Hebrews 11 teaches that Sarah judged Him faithful who had promised. verse 11. That did not happen overnight.
We first want the kingdom of God and His righteousness in our lives. That is righteous.
For God, the ends do not justify the means. God's acts are righteous from beginning to end. We can live the same way. We want to live righteously, we do so by believing scripture.
Let us consider one example. It is possible to love hypocritically, or with partiality. However, Romans 12:9 tells us to “Let love be without dissimulation.” Pure love, not love with ulterior motives. It is possible to love with pure heart. We can do it. That is righteous. It will take time and effort on our part to achieve that.
For me, I was easy for me to share God's word with people on controversial subjects. I was right and they were wrong. I wanted to show how right I was and how wrong they were. Yet, even if it was true what I was saying, the motive and the process was wrong. I have since learned much more clearly that love for God and others is the reason for us to share scripture, not selfish pride. Yes we can share scripture with the wrong motive. But we can also share it with the right motive.
The righteous shall live by believing.
Some of my thoughts on your post.
barley
Barleyi have enjoy your post ,and i have like it very much,i will cool down from the other post and refrain myself to post for a while ,and conquer myself more ,as you did,
again i like your post and fallow your views so far you are like my twin brother,but with more ability to written conversation.
thank you,and may God bless you.
Pierre
Barley………..few scriptures , “There is none that does good no not one”, Abraham believed God and it was (ATTRIBUTED) TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. This righteousness was a righteousness of Faith (IN) GOD not a (personal) righteousness. Now lets turn to Jesus himself, “WHY CALL ME GOOD THERE IS (ONLY ) ONE WHO IS GOOD, AND THAT IS GOD”,and again, “Unless the LORD shall build the house the weary builders build in vain” Our righteousness is of GOD not from ourselves, God Changes our hearts and minds to have the same desires as He does , he remove the stony heart and gives us a soft heart and this moves us to be like him. We are created unto good works and it is not from ourselves but is a gift from God, by HIS grace (God's working in our hearts). IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
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