Sahidic Coptic translation of John 1:1

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2013,12:50)

We read that the Word was with God in the beginning.  And then we read that Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world began. We read that all things were made through the Word.  And then we read that all things were made through Jesus. We read that the Word was light shining in the darkness.  Then we read that Jesus is the light of the world. We read that John the Baptist came to testify about the Word.  And then we read that John the Baptist was sent to testify about none other than Jesus. We read that those who believe in the name of the Word are given the right to become children of God.  Then we read that there is only one name under heaven by which we can be saved and become children of God……. the name Jesus. We read that the Word became flesh, and when he did, he dwelt on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.  Then we read that Jesus is the only one who ever dwelt on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son – because he is the only one who ever was God's only begotten Son. We read from the author of John 1 that the Word of life was “seen with our eyes, and touched by our hands”.  We read these same things about Jesus. We read from that same author that the rider of the white horse is called “The Word of God”.  And we know from the fiery eyes and sword coming out of that rider's mouth that this “Word” is none other than Jesus. Marty, there isn't one thing said about the Word in John 1, 1 John 1, or Revelation 19 that isn't also said elsewhere in scripture about Jesus. So it is more accurate to say that the “wrangling” done over John 1:1 is done by those who have a personal wish for Jesus to have been nothing more than a regular old human being like the rest of us. As for us, we are simply believing the scriptures that say things about “the Word” in certain verses, and then say those exact same things about “Jesus” in other verses.

Hard to argue against that Mike.

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2013,13:49)

Marty, Jesus is OUR God and Savior. 2 Peter 1:1 From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours.

Hi Kathi:

That scripture, then is not consistent with 1 Co 8:6 which I have posted above which states that for a born again Christian, there is but One God, the Father, and there are other scriptures that make this clear also.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 22 2013,16:18)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2013,12:50) We read that the Word was with God in the beginning.  And then we read that Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world began. We read that all things were made through the Word.  And then we read that all things were made through Jesus. We read that the Word was light shining in the darkness.  Then we read that Jesus is the light of the world. We read that John the Baptist came to testify about the Word.  And then we read that John the Baptist was sent to testify about none other than Jesus. We read that those who believe in the name of the Word are given the right to become children of God.  Then we read that there is only one name under heaven by which we can be saved and become children of God……. the name Jesus. We read that the Word became flesh, and when he did, he dwelt on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.  Then we read that Jesus is the only one who ever dwelt on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son – because he is the only one who ever was God's only begotten Son. We read from the author of John 1 that the Word of life was “seen with our eyes, and touched by our hands”.  We read these same things about Jesus. We read from that same author that the rider of the white horse is called “The Word of God”.  And we know from the fiery eyes and sword coming out of that rider's mouth that this “Word” is none other than Jesus. Marty, there isn't one thing said about the Word in John 1, 1 John 1, or Revelation 19 that isn't also said elsewhere in scripture about Jesus. So it is more accurate to say that the “wrangling” done over John 1:1 is done by those who have a personal wish for Jesus to have been nothing more than a regular old human being like the rest of us. As for us, we are simply believing the scriptures that say things about “the Word” in certain verses, and then say those exact same things about “Jesus” in other verses. Hard to argue against that Mike.

Hi Mike and T8:

I have given you my understanding of the scriptures.

Love in Christ<
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2013,19:52)

No, God and angels are sentient persons.

I'm glad you agree that God is a sentient person, Marty. There are those on this site that argue against that claim.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,23:18)

Hard to argue against that Mike.

Facts is facts!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2013,19:19)

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,17:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08) So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other? You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes. If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods. Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2. Check. I just googled it and it is 2. Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course. 1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1 or 1 left sock + 1 right sock = 1 pair of socks Again…1 + 1 = 1 So, 1 + 1 does not always equal 2

1 + 1 OF THE SAME THING = two of those things.

1 man + 1 man = 2 men

1 woman + 1 woman = 2 women

1 dog + 1 dog = 2 dogs

And 1 god + 1 god = 2 gods

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2013,20:02)

The Jehovah of hosts is probably the Son of God. The Son of God is possibly Jehovah of hosts.

Hmmmm………….

It's hard for me to believe that you would come to those conclusions from the scriptures I posted, Kathi. Very hard.

Surely David is Jesus. And the one who raises up this king for the people is Jehovah of hosts.

Surely the son to be born is Jesus. And the one whose zeal accomplishes this miracle is Jehovah of hosts.

I am happy that you at least used the words “probably” and “possibly”. That shows there is still hope for you yet.

[Lightenup]

Mike,

Quote

Surely the son to be born is Jesus. And the one whose zeal accomplishes this miracle is Jehovah of hosts.

The 'zeal' wasn't referring to the birth. Read the context.

[Proclaimer]

LU.

LU said to him, “you are God and the son of yourself”.
Peter said to him, “you are the Christ and the son of the living God”.

Jesus said, “blessed are you Peter. On this rock I will build my Church”.

[Lightenup]

Peter said:
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

And t8 stumbled all over Jesus the Stone of Stumbling who is Jehovah of hosts after Peter called Him our God and Savior Jesus Christ.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2013,17:55)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2013,19:19) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,17:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08) So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other? You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes. If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods. Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2. Check. I just googled it and it is 2. Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course. 1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1 or 1 left sock + 1 right sock = 1 pair of socks Again…1 + 1 = 1 So, 1 + 1 does not always equal 2 1 + 1 OF THE SAME THING = two of those things. 1 man + 1 man = 2 men 1 woman + 1 woman = 2 women 1 dog + 1 dog = 2 dogs And 1 god + 1 god = 2 gods

And what did Jesus' equation look like:

John 10:30

I and the Father are one.”

That is 1 + 1 = 1

There you have it people.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2013,21:26)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2013,17:55) 1 + 1 OF THE SAME THING = two of those things. I and the Father are one.” That is 1 + 1 = 1

I wasn't aware that “father” and “son” are THE SAME THING.

Kathi, how many theos are mentioned in John 1:1? One? Or two?

[Proclaimer]

Oh right. 1+1=1

“If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.”

[KangarooJack]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 18 2013,11:15)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 15 2013,21:05) It seems you have trouble accepting that “The Word” was GOD. Yes I have trouble believing that John 1:1c says the Word was THE God. Even many Trinitarian scholars admit that it can only be rendered qualitatively. But I guess if the Word can be THE God, the Judas can be THE Devil who is Satan.

Predicate nominative t8. The predicate nominative does NOT need the article to be definitive.

Example John 8:54,

ἀπεκρίθη Ἰησοῦς, Ἐὰν ἐγὼ δοξάσω ἐμαυτόν, ἡ δόξα μου οὐδέν ἐστιν: ἔστιν ὁ πατήρ μου ὁ δοξάζων με, ὃν ὑμεῖς λέγετε ὅτι θεὸς ἡμῶν ἐστιν:

Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is [the] God of us.’

[KangarooJack]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 23 2013,21:21)

Oh right. 1+1=1 “If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.”

1 Executive branch + 1 Legislative branch + 1 Judicial branch = 1 Government.

It doesn't take a degree in rocket science.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 23 2013,09:55)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2013,19:19) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,17:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08) So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other? You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes. If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods. Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2. Check. I just googled it and it is 2. Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course. 1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1 or 1 left sock + 1 right sock = 1 pair of socks Again…1 + 1 = 1 So, 1 + 1 does not always equal 2 1 + 1 OF THE SAME THING = two of those things. 1 man + 1 man = 2 men 1 woman + 1 woman = 2 women 1 dog + 1 dog = 2 dogs And 1 god + 1 god = 2 gods

Think in terms of kind.

1 man + 1 woman + 1 Adam.

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

God called their (plural) name (sing) Adam (sing).

God is a single kind. It doesn't take a college degree Mikey.

[KangarooJack]

Think in terms of kind.

1 man + 1 woman = 1 Adam.

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

God called their (plural) name (sing) Adam (sing).

God is a single kind.

[terraricca]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 24 2013,01:19)

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 18 2013,11:15) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 15 2013,21:05) It seems you have trouble accepting that “The Word” was GOD. Yes I have trouble believing that John 1:1c says the Word was THE God. Even many Trinitarian scholars admit that it can only be rendered qualitatively. But I guess if the Word can be THE God, the Judas can be THE Devil who is Satan. Predicate nominative t8. The predicate nominative does NOT need the article to be definitive. Example John 8:54, ἀπεκρίθη Ἰησοῦς, Ἐὰν ἐγὼ δοξάσω ἐμαυτόν, ἡ δόξα μου οὐδέν ἐστιν: ἔστιν ὁ πατήρ μου ὁ δοξάζων με, ὃν ὑμεῖς λέγετε ὅτι θεὸς ἡμῶν ἐστιν: Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is [the] God of us.’

kj

Jn 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

wath version are you using

[942767]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 24 2013,06:29)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 23 2013,09:55) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2013,19:19) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2013,17:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2013,11:52) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2013,02:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2013,15:08) So TWO gods, then?  One of whom was WITH the other? You won't get a straight answer here Mike, but the answer is clearly yes. If the Word is God and the Word was WITH God, then God was WITH God which makes two Gods. Yeah, the last time I checked, 1+1 still equaled 2. Check. I just googled it and it is 2. Depends on the identity of the addends and the sum of course. 1 man + 1 woman = 1 couple Here we see that 1 + 1 = 1 or 1 left sock + 1 right sock = 1 pair of socks Again…1 + 1 = 1 So, 1 + 1 does not always equal 2 1 + 1 OF THE SAME THING = two of those things. 1 man + 1 man = 2 men 1 woman + 1 woman = 2 women 1 dog + 1 dog = 2 dogs And 1 god + 1 god = 2 gods Think in terms of kind. 1 man + 1 woman + 1 Adam. This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. God called their (plural) name (sing) Adam (sing). God is a single kind. It doesn't take a college degree Mikey.

Wow, Jack, “he called their name Adam”, a male Adam and a female Adam, but they are still two different individuals, in a marriage the are “one flesh” or one body. They do not lose their identity. They are still two distinct individuals.

Jesus is married to the church, and the scriptures state that we are bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh.  The church is the body of Christ.  We are a many membered body, and we should be “ONE SPIRIT” with the Father and the Son, that is we are obeying the Word of God that has come from God our Father as he Has spoken in these last days through His Only Begotten Son.

Check out what I have stated against the scriptures and tell me if this is what the Word of God states or if you desire, I can give you the scriptures that support what I have stated.

The Father and the Son are “one in the spirit”.  Two distinct individuals.  The Word of God came to us in this last day from the Father through the Son. Well, I will just give you the following scripture:

Quote

Jhn 17:18   As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.   Jhn 17:19   And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.   Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;   Jhn 17:21   That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.   Jhn 17:22   And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 23 2013,13:29)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 23 2013,09:55) 1 + 1 OF THE SAME THING = two of those things. 1 man + 1 man = 2 men Think in terms of kind. 1 man + 1 woman + 1 Adam.

Why do you and Kathi continue to use two DIFFERENT things?  A “man” is not a “woman”. An “Executive branch” is not a “Legislative branch”.

Now, can you say one man + one man = one man?

If you cannot, then you also cannot say one god + one god = one god.

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