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Kenrch……God bless you brother, you have just showed me and others how the Spirit of God is moving among us and through us all…..love ya brother……gene
Quote (elaine1809 @ Aug. 20 2007,02:22) sorry I wrote the wrong scriptures. I am reffering to this scriptures: colossians 2:16-19 What does that scripture means to you Laurel? 
Elaine,
This was written to the faithful who kept the Sabbath and the Feasts, from someone who also kept the Sabbath, and the Feasts. Y'shua Messiah our example also kept them.Back then Paul knew there wpold be those who would try to turn our feet from the Sabbath and the appointed times of YHWH. The anti-messiah was already at work in the world.
Plain and simple if Y'shua Messiah did it it is good. If anyone can show me where Y'shua kept any old day, or the day He thought was the best , or actually any other day other than the 7th day Sabbbth, then by all means post it. I'll save you some time and tell you it isn't there. Y'shua Messiah esteemed His Father in YHWH wrote the commands with His own finger.
The Sabbath is a sign beteewn YHWH our Elohim and His people Israel. If you are not “grafted in the the branch” you are not His. If you are grafted in through Messiah, the Branch, do not boast that you are free to do whatever YOU will, or you too will be cut off and cast into the fire. If you choose to worship Elohim, you follow His Torah “instructions”. If you do not wish to worship Him, then do whatever you want.
A blessing and a curse, a blessing if you do His will and a curse if you don't. I choose the blessing.
The Sabbath is His sign, His mark, His signature.
LaurelMy personal thought on Sabbath keeping. I look forward to every one. I need that time away from the world and all the craziness. I do as much as possible before Friday night so that I can devot my time to Elohim. It is a good time to have fellowship, to pray, to read His Word, to spend time with family in fellowship with Him. A good day to take a walk out of doors, write letters that inspire whomever I'm writing to to “remember” Him.
I LOVE THE SABBATH. Oh yea, did I say nap time? It's a good day to refresh and heal our body as well as our soul.The Sabbath helps keep me in the Way all week long. I have really no stress anymore, and I see what is important in this life.
Thank you Father fo giving me the Sabbath.
LaurelQuote (Laurel @ Aug. 22 2007,16:44) Quote (elaine1809 @ Aug. 20 2007,02:22) sorry I wrote the wrong scriptures. I am reffering to this scriptures: colossians 2:16-19 What does that scripture means to you Laurel?
Elaine,
This was written to the faithful who kept the Sabbath and the Feasts, from someone who also kept the Sabbath, and the Feasts. Y'shua Messiah our example also kept them.Back then Paul knew there wpold be those who would try to turn our feet from the Sabbath and the appointed times of YHWH. The anti-messiah was already at work in the world.
Plain and simple if Y'shua Messiah did it it is good. If anyone can show me where Y'shua kept any old day, or the day He thought was the best , or actually any other day other than the 7th day Sabbbth, then by all means post it. I'll save you some time and tell you it isn't there. Y'shua Messiah esteemed His Father in YHWH wrote the commands with His own finger.
The Sabbath is a sign beteewn YHWH our Elohim and His people Israel. If you are not “grafted in the the branch” you are not His. If you are grafted in through Messiah, the Branch, do not boast that you are free to do whatever YOU will, or you too will be cut off and cast into the fire. If you choose to worship Elohim, you follow His Torah “instructions”. If you do not wish to worship Him, then do whatever you want.
A blessing and a curse, a blessing if you do His will and a curse if you don't. I choose the blessing.
The Sabbath is His sign, His mark, His signature.
Laurel
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing“Having forgiven all trespasses” [THEN] blotting out the handwritings of “ordinances” that was against us nailing the “ordinances to the cross”.
Christ has fulfilled the law concerning the forgiveness of sin “having forgiven all our trespasses”. The feasts deal with the forgiveness of sin “The sacrificial Law” is the HUB of the feasts. Isn't that what the feasts are about the sacrifice UNTIL the seed of the promise would come.
Do we need to have a feasts to remind us that the Holy Spirit lives in our heart?
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
What law was added because of transgression? Was it not Moses' law? Has the seed of the promise come? Jesus fulfilled the law concerning Himself.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
IMHO we no longer “have” to keep feasts days. The separation of the Law tells us that the sacrificial law was fulfilled.
Did Paul keep the feasts YES but why?
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
To win those who were under the sacrificial law of Moses. Notice ” myself not being under the law that I might win those under the law”
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
Paul became as those who had not the law, Though he himself NOT being without the Law of God(the Ten Commandments) but under the Law of Christ.
What was the Law of Christ. What Law did Christ fulfill?
I am not convinced that we are to keep the feasts days. We are under a New Covenant. We are forgiven of our sins. It is a sin NOT to keep the feasts?
As of now that is the way I see it and so far I have no reason to change.
IHP&L,
Ken
Elaine…..> i believe Ken is right on this, go through it slowly and think about it. peace sister…..gene
Ken,
Why do you insist on misleading, when you yourself have not studied what the Feasts mean?The “ordinances” in this case and I will say the English version uses the word ordinances to describe 4 types or 4 other greek words. All the words “ordinances” do not mean the same thing. In this verse you quoted, the word “ordinance” is from the greek “dogma” which are “civil laws”. Man made laws are dogma.
You are saying Y'shua died for nothing if you say that His Father's laws were nailed to the cross. Y'shua's used His Elohim appointed position in life to proove Scripture after Scripture, He pointed out to the Pharisees who were the spiritual leaders of the time, that the Pharisees were wrong in their “leavened” attitudes, and their “additional laws” and their “man-made traditions”. Messiah said that the Pharisees kept people from salvation by their man-made laws and traditions.
There is absolutely no possible way to understand the Messianic writings also called the “New Testament” without the full understanding of the Torah and the prophets, wich is also called “The Old Testament.”
A better name for the NT would be “The Renewed Testament.”
“Dead in your sins and uncircumcision” means dead. So life would mean alive in your circumcision of the heart by the Spirit.
The laws once written on stone, are now even more meaningful after being written on our minds, and in our hearts.
Y'shua Messiah gave full meaning to the 10 commandments and the Torah of love. He separated truth from make believe. How did He do this? He fulfilled the Passover written in the Torah “to the letter.” He made it crystal clear that the Words in the Torah are real, and that His Father's will, will be done, just like His Word tells us.
Ken, you can go round and round with me and other people, and you always will because there is no beginning and no end in your sight.
The Torah and the prophets has been preserved over thousands of years because it is important. Why? Because Y'shua Messiah IS the Word, He is the Spirit.
If the Torah and the prophests did not exist, there is no way possible to proove Y'shua is the Messiah.
Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Has heaven and earth passed?
Whom will you worship, 1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if YHWH is Elohim, follow him: but if Ba'al, then follow, him. But the people answered him not a word.
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the Torah prophesied concerning John.
Mat 11:14 And if you wish to accept it, this is Elijah, who was about to come.Finally to Ken, everytime you attatck the Feasts it is to me how you feel when someone attatcks the Sabbath. Furthermore, there are Sabbaths in the Feasts, days to rest from our labors, and if you don't think they are still valid today read Lev. 23 where YHWH includes the weekly Sabbath as one of His appointed times, and goes on to tell us of the other appointed times, the FEASTS!
Ken, Gene and all….
Your question, Is it a sin not to keep the Feasts?
Your answer, Is it a sin not to keep the Sabbath?
Laurel ps read Lev. 23 begin at the beginning.
Ken,
I have already explained to you privately, and you didn't listen, now I will tell you publically, that the sacrifices that were before at the appointed Feasts were a shadow of Messiah. The purpose, so that His people Israel could meet Him in white robes, free from sin, as YHWH will not meet His people untill they are free from sin. So the purpose of the Feast is to meet with Him our Creator, the purpose of the sacrifice was to cleanse us from sin.When the bride groom comes for His bride, will you be there? Will you make the “appointment”, will you come in the white robe of the wedding garment.
I can say no more. I will go to others if at least one person can not see this. I will stomp the dust off me feet, I will look for someone who wants to know Him. I am not in the dark. The theif will not overtake me. I will be there at His appointed time, doing His will, ready and waiting for Him.
Laurel
Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 23 2007,05:05) Ken,
I have already explained to you privately, and you didn't listen, now I will tell you publically, that the sacrifices that were before at the appointed Feasts were a shadow of Messiah. The purpose, so that His people Israel could meet Him in white robes, free from sin, as YHWH will not meet His people untill they are free from sin. So the purpose of the Feast is to meet with Him our Creator, the purpose of the sacrifice was to cleanse us from sin.When the bride groom comes for His bride, will you be there? Will you make the “appointment”, will you come in the white robe of the wedding garment.
I can say no more. I will go to others if at least one person can not see this. I will stomp the dust off me feet, I will look for someone who wants to know Him. I am not in the dark. The theif will not overtake me. I will be there at His appointed time, doing His will, ready and waiting for Him.
Laurel
Laurel,Is it a sin not to keep feasts that has been fulfilled? The feasts, the burnt offerings, the scape goat all pointed to Jesus the Lamb of God.
You have given me NO sound scripture as to why I “have” to keep the feasts.
The people under the Old Covenant did NOT have the Holy Spirit. You ever think that by keeping the Law that Jesus fulfilled you are denying that Jesus is the Messiah?
You say you keep the feast but you don't offer anything but accept Jesus' sacrifice. If you accept His sacrifice then WHY keep the feasts that pointed to the Messiah's coming?
The Seventh day Sabbath is the Law that God wrote and NOT the ANNUAL Sabbaths that went with the feasts of food, drink, moons, holy days.
You have admitted that there is a separation of Law but Why is there a separation of Law? Why was one law placed INSIDE the ark and the other OUTSIDE the ark?
Luk 24:24 Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.”
Luk 24:25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Luk 24:26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”
Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.Luk 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
Laurel I still have an open mind. But I can't just accept what you say because you say it.
You point to scripture that points to the Messiah, OK the Messiah has come. That law according to Paul was added Until the seed of the promise would come ~Jesus the Christ~.
Which Law was Paul speaking of? You tell “US” give us scripture that clears up Paul's writings of the law that was fulfilled.
Aren't you keeping the sacrificial law BUT not the sacrifice. You put Jesus in the place of the animals that were offered. Isn't that the only difference?
Again the OT people did not have the Holy Spirit to talk to them, guide them. They needed physical things to look at and touch their Covenant was physical not Spiritual.
IHP&L,
Ken
Ken or Gen Ken i know that you are tired of all these Questions and believe me i dont ever want to upset you again, my Brother in Christ. So I am leaving it to ether one of you, if you want to answer my Questions. Here they are.
Please give me a scripture where it says that there was a seperation of the Law. I thought that the whole Law was given to Moses on Mount Saina. And all was given because of trensgression. Which was the old Covenant that was given to Israel. Right? Scripture please?
Where does it say that the Law of ordinances was placed on the outside of the Ark? Scriptures Please?
Peace and Love Mrs.
laurel…..What does it mean,” whosoever is under law is under a curse?
The gentile who have (NOT THE LAW) show the law written in their Hearts by the Hand of God.
It also say's the law is for the UnGodly. People who are being lead by God's Spirit doin't need carnel laws commandments to be right with God, The ten commandments are spiritual and can be only truly fullfilled by the Spirit of God which is poured out into our hearts, this is the love that The Father has put in us and causes us to be moved by His Love, which fullfills all the commandments of our Father.
I used to keep all those feast days also,and they can be fun and enjoyable, but they can also be very hard and strick, i even have destoryed toasters on the days of unleavend bread to try to get the leavening out of my house, you know what i mean. While it may not be wrong to get together and keep those feasts as a teaching tool, to say we are still commanded to keep them may be a stretch.
Keep the ten commandments yes ( because they are all about love for God and each other).
I remember when i was in the world wide church of God, there was this condesending atitude when it came to others who didn't believe as we did, and this was wrong.
I think Ken is pretty much right on what he said on this subject. I hope i didn't offend you sister……geneIm4truth…..There is a lot of confussion on that subject.
Let give you my take on it.
First of all the ten commamdments are spritual and cannot be keep on a carnel level, this was the problem God had with those carnel Isrealites, they simply would not and could not follow them, they were just to carnel minded. So what God decided to do was turn them into laws, and he did this in Exodus 19: He created a hugh spectical on the mountain and shot them up with fear, But notice in Exodus 19:20 what Moses said when he came down from the mountain < fear notfor the Lord has done this that the (FEAR) of Him be (IN) you sow that you sin not. Remember law always has fear attached to it and the fear regulates our behavior, even with traffic laws, where there is no cosequences law breakes down. That the way God had to deal with those carnel Isrealites, But what did Paul say, " but you brethern have (NOT) come to that mountain to FEAR as they did. You see its a complete different way, we don't need law enforcement working through fear. God has written His commamdments in our Hearts and we don't have to TRY, we simple DO love God and our Neighibor by a NEW NATURE that fullfills all the commamdments.
GLORY TO OUR FATHER NOW AND FOREVER….. There is a big difference between the two covenants, sister…..geneGen very good Post, I completely agree with you. But there remains one question in my mind, how do you keep the Sabbath spiritual when it is a physical Day of rest?
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Aug. 23 2007,16:00) how do you keep the Sabbath spiritual when it is a physical Day of rest?
Oh my goodness, great question!
This is what I've been wondering too…..
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 23 2007,16:17) Quote (IM4Truth @ Aug. 23 2007,16:00) how do you keep the Sabbath spiritual when it is a physical Day of rest?
Oh my goodness, great question!This is what I've been wondering too…..
We are to worship in Spirit and truth. How does one worship in Spirit? How do you worship in Spirit on the other six days?We rest from our daily routine. What we do the other six days we do not do on the Sabbath. This gives us the Day to worship the Father in Spirit. Worshiping the Father in Spirit means FELLOWSHIP with God Almighty.
We walk by the Spirit, We are led by the Spirit, all the days.
But on the Sabbath because we are at rest from our daily routine our minds are free to worship and spend more time following the Spirit of God thus having fellowship with Him.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,Question N31:
If your sons birthday fell on the Sabbath who's day would you celebrate?
PEACE,
Ken
Answer: You would follow the Spirit's instructions
What would the Spirit say? I don't know that is between you and you Father in Heaven.
As for myself I would explain that we would celebrate his birithday (if I did such a thing) Saturday night. But your Father is not a monster no one would know that answer until the Spirit gives it. That is keeping the Sabbath Spiritual.
I pray I cleared things up.
Ken
I am a stay-at-home Mom, and I also work part-time out of my home. The thing is, I have the privilege of spending most of my days in prayer, worship, and study. So when I hear of how other's spend their Sabbath days, I think to myself, “That is how I spend every day. To be honest, setting aside a full day to do these things would not be a whole lot different than what I do now most days. Other than maybe the NAPS!
That sounds inviting, but I've never been able to sleep during the day.Gene, under the law means you broke the law. a blessing if you obey, and a curse if you do not.
The law is for everyone to know what sin is, if we did not know what sin was, we could not repent.
We were commanded to be perfect and keep the commands. So why do you and most others think that it is impossible. The impossible is that before our belief inY'shua we were lost sheep, we didn't know the law, now that wee know Him and follow Him, we are above the law, because we keep the law.
You quit keeping His Feasts, because you made them strict. Same as the Pharisees did to the Sabbaths. Your fault, not His.
I bet if you mixed some of those crumbs from the toaster with plain flour, no matter how warm the dough was, it wouldn't rise.The Feasts contain Sabbaths besides the weekly Sabbath, this is why we should keep them other than the fact that YHWH said they are His Feasts and we should observe them forever.
Lev 23 begins teaching His appointed times, the weekly Sabbaths are included in this text, and in context.
Note the similarity of the 4th commandment in Deut 5:14-15 and the commandment to keep the Feast.
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of YHWH thy Elohim:in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that YHWH thy Elohim brought thee out thence, through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore, YHWH thy Elohim commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.Exo 12:26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
Exo 12:27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of YHWH's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshiped.Lastly I want to point out that the word fear means deep respect. Fear YHWH means to have a deep respect fot Him, not the same as an earthy father who will woop your butt if you spill your milk. We are adults now.
More on the Feasts tomorrow… but I'd just like you all to consider this: If you could proove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible is real and Y'shua is the Son of Elohim, would you be open to learning how to proove it? If yes, then tune in tomorrow and learn how.
Good night all,'Love in our Savior and our Father in heaven,
LaurelQuote (Laurel @ Aug. 23 2007,17:23) We were commanded to be perfect and keep the commands. So why do you and most others think that it is impossible.
Sister,
The above quote seems impossible to me. How can we be “perfect” and “keep the commands”? If we were able to do this, would we have needed a new covenant? Would we have needed the blood of Christ?
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