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BTW,
Happy Sabbath. My “ox was in the ditch” this morning. I woke to find my trees full of toilet paper! So it was necessary to do a little “servile work” and get that stuff out.
That's what happens when you have a 17 y.o. daughter…
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 06 2007,17:53) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 06 2007,10:34) Whenever God spoke of the Sabbath, whether yearly or weekly, He spoke of having a holy convocation. In otehr words, a gathering. Much like what we call today as “worship”. Therefore, if the Sabbath was well established in the OT, and Christians, both Jew and Gentile, continued to gather on it in the NT, what basis is there in scripture to set aside Sunday as the day of for a holy convocation? The point I'm making is simple. The Sabbath was already established in the OT. We have no evidence of it being eliminated in the NT. So if Christians are no longer obligated to gather on the Sabbath, why not any day of the week? Why Sunday at all? Why not Tuesday? Friday? Shouldn't we all just decide as a church body what is most convenient for us?
I think we can take “freedom in Christ” a bit too liberally…
I think establishing a day is when we start getting into tradition.If God gave us a day, then who are we to argue. But if man establishes a day, then what is it worth?
t8I agree. Then it becomes “Law'.
To say we are going to gather on a Sunday, Monday, or Saturday. Matters not to the Father.
“Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together”.
All he cares about is that we gather.
Most Protastant churchs have not made a “Law” that you had to worship on Sunday. They do not consider you have broken the Sabbath commandment if you dont go.
WJ,
No doubt. Yet the Sabbath is more than just having a holy convocation. Its about abstaining from the work of the world and replacing it with dedication to God. So we as Christians can truly gather on any day, but I can't tell you how many times in life I've heard “You're not supposed to do that on Sunday”. IOW, they were treating Sunday as it they would the Sabbath. Chik-Fil-A is closed on Sunday but open on Saturday, thus they treat Sunday as a Sabbath day. Many more businesses are closed on Sunday, but I have never seen a business closed on Saturday and open on Sunday. While this may be a hold over from “blue laws”, I think you'd find that “blue laws” were enacted because people had turned Sunday into the Sabbath.
LG&LP,
KevinQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2007,17:00) Quote (Laurel @ Oct. 06 2007,12:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2007,09:13) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 06 2007,08:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2007,08:29) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 06 2007,07:49) Quote Besides there is no scripture that says Jesus rose on the Sabbath. There is more evidence Jesus rose on the first day of the week. Why would he wait a day to appear to the desciples? 1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;That's what Jesus did until Mary found the tomb Empty!
WJ you need to “forget ” all what the RCC's daughters have taught you and start listening to scripture.
It's all clear and plain IF you forget what the Harlot has taught the world. And continues to decieve the “Many”.
She deceives the “whole world”.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
WJ at one time or another everyone who seachers the truth comes to the realization that we have been lied too. And now that the end is near the truth is being reavealed. AND so AGAIN the call goes out “come out of her MY People”.
Search the scriptures search your heart and submit.
God bless,
Ken
kenrchJesus was in the belly of the earth preaching to the Spirits that were disobedient.
1 Peter 3:19
in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Seems that the Lord was “quickened by the Spirit” Made alive.
He laid in the tomb for three days and three nights. He was “dead” three days and three nights.
kMatt 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.Was Jonah dead?
Lk 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.Jesus soul/spirit was in hell like Jonah. What do you believe in the Catholics soul sleep doctrine?
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. 2 Cor 5:8.
Jesus said to the theif on the cross “This day you will be with me in parodise”.
Eph 4:9
Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.The Eternal Spirit of Jesus did not die. He is was the ressurection and the life.
But this is another subject. Jesus was ressurected on Sunday. The first day of the week. Not on the Sabbath.
WJ,
All these things mangled.Hell is the equalivent of grave. When we die we sleep. The “dead will be judged” upon the 2nd coming of our Messiah. They will be in a concious state at judgement. Until then just sleep. They will see what they will never have.
Mangled this too. Not your fault.
Y'shua said, Luke 23:43 “Verily I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
One slip of the jot or tittle and the whole world is confused. Woe to the scribes! Twist Scripture to their own traditions!
Lastly,
Eph. 4:9
Now that He ascended , what does it mean that He decened? He that died and was burried is the same one that also also ascended above the heavens, that He might fullfill all things.
Laurel
lauralOff the topic but what do you make of these scriptures.
Lk 16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.Was Jesus just making up stories?
Or this…
2 Cor 5:8
we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.What greek credentials do you have that you know more than the translators?
And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable TrustNIV – Luk 23:43 – Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible SocietyESV – Luk 23:43 – And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway BiblesNASB – Luk 23:43 – And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman FoundationRSV – Luk 2
3:43 – And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.ASV – Luk 23:43 – And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.
American Standard Version 1901 InfoYoung – Luk 23:43 – and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 InfoDarby – Luk 23:43 – And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 InfoWebster – Luk 23:43 – And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, This day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Noah Webster Version 1833 InfoHNV – Luk 23:43 – Yeshua said to him, “Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
WJ,I did address this a couple post ago, but I will again so you can see it for yourself.
The verses you posted is how Messiah explained what it would be like at judgment.
Using Revelations as my rock, I will build upon the fact that upon His return to judge the living and the dead, the dead in Messiah will rise first, then those alive and in Messiah will rise and be changed and meet Him in the air!
Now we have established what happen to those “in Messiah.”
Then we look to the verses you posted about judgment. Y'shua says that the dead will see what they can not have, they will “feel” the separation. It is a huge gulf that can not be crossed from the permant or 2nd death, to the “other side” where is everlasting life.
These verses were written to caution us that upon our death, we have NO SECOND CHANCE. There is no changing your destiny once dead. We are to live today for Him. No person can pray us out of the judgement to death, not even the Messiah.
So based on these Scriptures, we can see also that Y'shua could not have possibly gone to “limbo” to convince those there to change. Limbo and pergatory are Catholic doctrine. Catholics think they can pay cash to the church to rescue poeple from this semi-dead state. Catholics think that upon death, the person goes directly to heaven or to semi-death, like a big waiting room full of misery. Then there loved ones who are alive get a chance to undo what they did bad, by paying cash and praying to dead saints, and rescue them.
Our breath of life, which is not what make us who we are, return to the Father, who breathed life into us upon our conception. That living breath, leaves our person. The rest of the person, is a soul and a body. The body turns to dust, rots. The soul sleeps, like hibernation, untill He returns to fulfill the fall Feasts.
As for your last question about the greeks, I ask you, what makes the greeks superior to Y'shua who is the Son of Elohim. Y'shua who is perfect and the only perfect “man” who EVER lived. I believe Him, and follow Him. The Spirit of truth is more powerful than any greek.
Laurel
Kevin,
You last post was very insightful. I just learned about the “blue laws” about a month ago.Laurel
Laurel
You say…
Quote did address this a couple post ago, but I will again so you can see it for yourself. The verses you posted is how Messiah explained what it would be like at judgment.
No. The parable of Lazarus and the richman has nothing to do with the judgment in the end.
Lk 16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 **And in hell** he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.Both “Died” and was buried and Lazarus went to Abrahams bosom (the Fathers) and the rich man went to hell.
How about this…
Rev 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar **the souls** of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.This clearly shows that those who died in Christ were conscience and aware of the place they were in.
And you didnt address Paul saying…
2 Cor 5:8
we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.Jesus said whoever believes in him will “Never die”.
Jn 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?Whoever believes in him “Has Eternal life!
And what of this…
Matt 17:2
And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. (Was Yeshua talking to a vision?)
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 07 2007,02:14) BTW, Happy Sabbath. My “ox was in the ditch” this morning. I woke to find my trees full of toilet paper! So it was necessary to do a little “servile work” and get that stuff out.
That's what happens when you have a 17 y.o. daughter…
OH NO! You could have waited until “tomorrow”Just kidding
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 07 2007,03:38) WJ, No doubt. Yet the Sabbath is more than just having a holy convocation. Its about abstaining from the work of the world and replacing it with dedication to God. So we as Christians can truly gather on any day, but I can't tell you how many times in life I've heard “You're not supposed to do that on Sunday”. IOW, they were treating Sunday as it they would the Sabbath. Chik-Fil-A is closed on Sunday but open on Saturday, thus they treat Sunday as a Sabbath day. Many more businesses are closed on Sunday, but I have never seen a business closed on Saturday and open on Sunday. While this may be a hold over from “blue laws”, I think you'd find that “blue laws” were enacted because people had turned Sunday into the Sabbath.
LG&LP,
Kevin
kejonnIf we are to keep the physical 7th day Sabbath. Then what about this…
The Covenant From Sinai Abolished
Gal. 4:21-31
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, and the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the Mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar…. But Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of us all…. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born of the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the freeNo one is saying that you have to gather on Sunday. This is what the early Church Fathers did in celebration of our Lords ressurection. Sunday gatherings were going on 300 yeaars before Constatine.
If someone says they are gonna gather on Saturday, fine. But dont make that law and say that if you dont then you break his commandments when the above clearly shows that we arent.
I know you are not saying this but the fruit that I have seen from all this is “Judgmental” and “Condemning” toward those who dont do as they say. Even calling them harlots and taking the mark of the beast.
IMO!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 07 2007,04:45) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 07 2007,03:38) WJ, No doubt. Yet the Sabbath is more than just having a holy convocation. Its about abstaining from the work of the world and replacing it with dedication to God. So we as Christians can truly gather on any day, but I can't tell you how many times in life I've heard “You're not supposed to do that on Sunday”. IOW, they were treating Sunday as it they would the Sabbath. Chik-Fil-A is closed on Sunday but open on Saturday, thus they treat Sunday as a Sabbath day. Many more businesses are closed on Sunday, but I have never seen a business closed on Saturday and open on Sunday. While this may be a hold over from “blue laws”, I think you'd find that “blue laws” were enacted because people had turned Sunday into the Sabbath.
LG&LP,
Kevin
kejonnIf we are to keep the physical 7th day Sabbath. Then what about this…
The Covenant From Sinai Abolished
Gal. 4:21-31
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, and the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the Mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar…. But Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of us all…. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born of the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the freeNo one is saying that you have to gather on Sunday. This is what the early Church Fathers did in celebration of our Lords ressurection. Sunday gatherings were going on 300 yeaars before Constatine.
If someone says they are gonna gather on Saturday, fine. But dont make that law and say that if you dont then you break his commandments when the above clearly shows that we arent.
I know you are not saying this but the fruit that I have seen from all this is “Judgmental” and “Condemning” toward those who dont do as they say. Even calling them harlots and taking the mark of the beast.
IMO!
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,“When the fulness of time had come He sent forth His Son”
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.WJ Which of the “TEN COMMANDMENTS” point to His Son who HE sent “when the fulness of time had come”?
Does the Seventh Day Sabbath point to His Son's coming?
Paul taught all Gentiles on the Sabbath day.
Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Where did Paul keep and teach on Sunday? WHERE WJ? The Pope wasn't there
If as an Important thing as a commandment of God to be changed then why didn't the apostles even mention it?
Why do you ignore the beginning of the chapter?
Ken
kench
You say…
Quote
Where did Paul keep and teach on Sunday? WHERE WJ? The Pope wasn't thereActs 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.You say…
Quote
WJ Which of the “TEN COMMANDMENTS” point to His Son who HE sent “when the fulness of time had come”?Were the “Ten Commandments” given on Mt Sinai?
The Covenant From Sinai Abolished
Gal. 4:21-31
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, and the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the Mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar…. But Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of us all…. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born of the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the freeWhich Son are you of? The Bondwoman or the Freewoman?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2007,11:45) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 07 2007,03:38) WJ, No doubt. Yet the Sabbath is more than just having a holy convocation. Its about abstaining from the work of the world and replacing it with dedication to God. So we as Christians can truly gather on any day, but I can't tell you how many times in life I've heard “You're not supposed to do that on Sunday”. IOW, they were treating Sunday as it they would the Sabbath. Chik-Fil-A is closed on Sunday but open on Saturday, thus they treat Sunday as a Sabbath day. Many more businesses are closed on Sunday, but I have never seen a business closed on Saturday and open on Sunday. While this may be a hold over from “blue laws”, I think you'd find that “blue laws” were enacted because people had turned Sunday into the Sabbath.
LG&LP,
Kevin
kejonnIf we are to keep the physical 7th day Sabbath. Then what about this…
The Covenant From Sinai Abolished
Gal. 4:21-31
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, and the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the Mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar…. But Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of us all…. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born of the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the freeNo one is saying that you have to gather on Sunday. This is what the early Church Fathers did in celebration of our Lords ressurection. Sunday gatherings were going on 300 yeaars before Constatine.
If someone says they are gonna gather on Saturday, fine. But dont make that law and say that if you dont then you break his commandments when the above clearly shows that we arent.
I know you are not saying this but the fruit that I have seen from all this is “Judgmental” and “Condemning” toward those who dont do as they say. Even calling them harlots and taking the mark of the beast.
IMO!
WJ,Stop one moment and think of the story of Isaac and Ishmael. Why was Ismael born? Because Abram and Sarai wanted to fulfill the promise God made to them instead of waiting on God to do it. That is where the bondage comes from: doing things our way instead of God's way. Therefore, the law became bondage because the Israelites had come to only observe the letter and not the Spirit. And they also added many of their own regulations on how the law should be carried out. In other words, they took God's law and lived it the way they chose instead of doing it God's way.
Just like with the conception of Isaac.
Now look at these two verses:
Gal 4:25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.The ones in bondage corresponded to the present Jerusalem. That is, those who lived by the letter and not the Spirit. The sames ones who accused Yeshua of breaking the law at every turn because he was doing it God's way and not their way.
The lesson in Galatians ch.4 is to follow the leadership of the Spirit!
LG&LP,
KevinQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 07 2007,05:34) kench You say…
Quote
Where did Paul keep and teach on Sunday? WHERE WJ? The Pope wasn't thereActs 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.You say…
Quote
WJ Which of the “TEN COMMANDMENTS” point to His Son who HE sent “when the fulness of time had come”?Were the “Ten Commandments” given on Mt Sinai?
The Covenant From Sinai Abolished
Gal. 4:21-31
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, and the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the Mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar…. But Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of us all…. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born of the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the freeWhich Son are you of? The Bondwoman or the Freewoman?
WJ they were living in a commune. They Gathered everyday and broke bread and preached every day just as we do.Have you spoken to your Mother like I asked you to do?
WJ there is a separation of the Law WJ. Why did God write the Ten Commandments and Moses write the other Laws.
Again Why was the Law God wrote Placed INSIDE the ark and Moses' law placed ON THE SIDE of the ark.
Did Jesus fulfill and do away with the Ten Commandment law of His Father?
Which of the Ten says to:
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.You are twisting scripture which is the only way you can even attempt to prove the RCC's false doctrines.
What do you make of these scriptures?
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
What matters WJ?
1Co 7:19
(ASV) Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; but the keeping of the commandments of God.
(CEV) Being circumcised or uncircumcised isn't really what matters. The important thing is to obey God's commands.
(DRB) Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing: but the observance of the commandments of God.
(ESV) For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.
(GNB) For whether or not a man is circumcised means nothing; what matters is to obey God's commandments.
(GW) Circumcision is nothing, and the lack of it is nothing. But keeping what God commands is everything.
(KJV) Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
(KJVR) Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
(LITV) Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of God's commands.
(MKJV) Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Who would teach to break God's commandments Satan or Jesus?
What will the last day saints be doing?
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
How do you explain all these scriptures and still teach to break God's commandments?
Humm mmm
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 07 2007,05:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2007,11:45) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 07 2007,03:38) WJ, No doubt. Yet the Sabbath is more than just having a holy convocation. Its about abstaining from the work of the world and replacing it with dedication to God. So we as Christians can truly gather on any day, but I can't tell you how many times in life I've heard “You're not supposed to do that on Sunday”. IOW, they were treating Sunday as it they would the Sabbath. Chik-Fil-A is closed on Sunday but open on Saturday, thus they treat Sunday as a Sabbath day. Many more businesses are closed on Sunday, but I have never seen a business closed on Saturday and open on Sunday. While this may be a hold over from “blue laws”, I think you'd find that “blue laws” were enacted because people had turned Sunday into the Sabbath.
LG&LP,
Kevin
kejonnIf we are to keep the physical 7th day Sabbath. Then what about this…
The Covenant From Sinai Abolished
Gal. 4:21-31
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, and the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the Mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar…. But Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of us all…. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born of the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the freeNo one is saying that you have to gather on Sunday. This is what the early Church Fathers did in celebration of our Lords ressurection. Sunday gatherings were going on 300 yeaars before Constatine.
If someone says they are gonna gather on Saturday, fine. But dont make that law and say that if you dont then you break his commandments when the above clearly shows that we arent.
I know you are not saying this but the fruit that I have seen from all this is “Judgmental” and “Condemning” toward those who dont do as they say. Even calling them harlots and taking the mark of the beast.
IMO!
WJ,Stop one moment and think of the story of Isaac and Ishmael. Why was Ismael born? Because Abram and Sarai wanted to fulfill the promise God made to them instead of waiting on God to do it. That is where the bondage comes from: doing things our way instead of God's way. Therefore, the law became bondage because the Israelites had come to only observe the letter and not the Spirit. And they also added many of their own regulations on how the law should be carried out. In other words, they took God's law and lived it the way they chose instead of doing it God's way.
Just like with the conception of Isaac.
Now look at these two verses:
Gal 4:25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.The ones in bondage corresponded to the present Jerusalem. That is, those who lived by the letter and not the Spirit. The sames ones who accused Yeshua of breaking the law at every turn because he was doing it God's way and not their way.
The lesson in Galatians ch.4 is to follow the leadership of the Spirit!
LG&LP,
Kevin
kejonnBut there are two parts of these passages that should be emphasized.
1. Which things are an allegory: for these are the *two covenants*
2. But as then he that was *born after the flesh* persecuted him that was *born of the Spirit*, even so it is now
The paralell is the “Two Covenants, The “Two Natures” the the “flesh and the Spirit” the “Two Kingdoms” (This world and the Kingdom of God the New Jerusalem)
The Epistle of Galations was written by Paul to defend against those who are persecuting those who are of the Spirit by seeking to bring them under the Law. Which was our tutor to bring us to Christ and which afterwards we no longer need as our tutor.
Gal 3:
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.The Old and the New.
Later Paul writes…
Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Which lines up beautifully with what Jesus said the first two commandments were and by which all the law and the Prophets hang. The New Covenant law of the Spirit of life in Christ is a higher law than the Old.
There is no other requirement that I can see but to live in the Spirit and be filled with the Spirit daily.
IMO.
Blessings
Quote (Jodi @ Oct. 06 2007,06:54) Hi All, Just wanted to give a little update. Molly Sue was born Monday the 24th just before 10AM. She was 6lbs 8oz and 20 in. Thanks so much for all your prayers, my delivery was a wonderful experience for both me and my husband. Molly and I recovered so well we were able to leave the hospital by 10AM the next day! This was really great since my first delivery was by C-section and we had to stay several days in the hospital. I am so thankful I got to experience a natural birth!
As you can imagine I haven't had much time to work on a post, but I have been able to check in from time to time and just take in all that everyone has been writing.
God Bless
Hi Jodi:This is wonerful news. Congratulations, and may God Bless you and your family.
Love in Christ
to all….> what seams to be the problem here is a lack of understanding .
Keeping the commandments of God, is one thing and being under LAW (forced compliance) is another.
The commamdments were truned in (law) at Mount Sini. A commandment is (NOT) a Law and therefore does not requirement obedience by forced compliance like a (LAW) does.
when the childern of Israel would not obey willingly God's commandments. He turned them in LAWS (Forced compliance). If we say we keep God's commandments we don't mean the Law at all, we are not under any Law,we mean we are moved by the spirit in Us
and that Spirit keeps all of God's commandments because it what God has put in us, and its not against the law though it just the only way to fullfill God's commandments so the commandments are HOLY just and GOOD and we should with our new natures keep them. Jesus planily said if you will inter into life keep the commamdments, and none of them are grevious or hard to keep.If we are moved by the Spirit we will be Keeping His commandments. We need to remember LAW (forced compliance) and Keeping God's commandments are not the same, law is made for a carnel mind who has to be forced to obey and workes through a medium of fear.
But you brethern have not come to that maountain to fear as they did, you see its a whole different way of (OBEDIANCE) one's through fear and one's through the Spirit, but it's still obediance. It's just the way thats changed……..Peace to all..gene
942767 Made a special Tread for Jodi would you put the congratulation under that too, that would be nice, Thank you
It is under General Jodi had Her Baby
Peace and Love Mrs.
GB
You say…
Quote
The commamdments were truned in (law) at Mount Sini. A commandment is (NOT) a Law and therefore does not requirement obedience by forced compliance like a (LAW) does.Then why do I feel like I am being forced to obey a law that is fulfilled in Christ and if I dont then I am blind and lost, seems like “forced compliance to me”.
Are you saying the “Ten Commandments” were not the “Law of God”?
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