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david……> My point was if you use the definite article (THE) then you are talking about the ten commamdments, because the article (the) is specific, but if its removed as it should be in many places then you are talking about how law works, in other words. remember when somthing is put into (LAW) it becomes a inforced compliance, but before it is made law it just a stipulation or a non enforced ordaince which carries with it no punishment, but once it becomes law it is inforced and carries with it punishment. The commandments were turned in laws at Mount Sini, and inforcement came with it and it was delevered in fear, but what does Paul say, but you brethern have not come to that mountain to (FEAR), you see LAW has fear attached to it. Thats why Paul said by works of (LAW) shall no flesh be justified before God, Why because forced compliance can never make ones heart right and agian it says nothing is perfected in fear. So to me Paul was not talking about the ten commamdments per say but the way they were administered or (that administration of death), and that what was done away with, be he also said do we nulify (THE) law, the article is there, he say's God forbid we establish it. And again in Revelation it say's those who are there have the testomney of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. The Commandments of God are a way of life will never be done away with because they are the way life workes and we like Jesus must get to where we can fullfill them , infact we will because of Gods Spirit He gives us. So to me the are truly fullfilled by the Love of God shed around in our Hearts so we won't need (LAW) forced compliance any longer. We Just keep God's commandments through a different way and not through the operation of (LAW)…….I hope this better explained what i meant……peace to you ….gene
Hi 94,
I too thought as you did when I read the scriptures. 6 days work, 1 day rest, start over again. But while the principle may be valid, scripturally it does not line up. The reason I say this is that whenever you see the weekly Sabbath mentioned in scripture, it is always the same day. For instance, in Acts when you see that people were gathering on the Sabbath, it was not just an arbitrary day chosen by those who decided which cycle to observe, it was one single day, and was consistant from week to week. It was a Jewish national day first, and the earliest Gentile Christians continued to observe that very same day.
So the reality is that scripture does not define any other day. Do you know of any other religion where their God has set apart one particular day to make it holy?
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
While it is true that Abraham, Noah, and many more before Moses were not Sabbath keepers, the fact is that God did indeed make one day holy, and He gave that day a name in Exodus 20. It is the one day that separates YHWH God from all the other gods men came to serve. So I agree with Ronald Dart when he says that the Sabbath identifies God. It is the one commandment given that is really different than what most would do according to human morality. If our God is the God of the Israelites, why the difference?
I certainly do not judge you brother. I just ask that you prayerfully investigate the matter and shed yourself of what others would have you believe. This is between you and God so He has to convince you one way or the other. If only I was right than I'd be God and we know that is no where near the truth!!
But can you keep the Sabbath and still worship as a corporate body on Sunday? I don't see any scripture against it! I think the Sabbath is not about worship in particular (at least how modern man views worship) as it is a day that you cease from normal weekly activities and take up God's work. Yeshua worked everyday doing his Father's business, so he showed that it is lawful to do God's work on the Sabbath.
Joh 5:16 And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”See? Yeshua boldly states that doing the Father's work is lawful on the Sabbath! So its not so much about worship on that particular day as it is working for God and resting from man's labors.
Besides that, how many people even rest from man's work on Sunday? Sunday has become about worshiping corporately for a few hours and the rest of the day is spent doing other things. One of the last churches I attended does not even have Sunday night service anymore! They said it was for “family time” but you'd find mot of them watching football, hanging out at the mall, or whatever. So if Sunday is the “Christian sabbath” its turned out to be a poor one.
Let God lead as always!
KevinKejonn Sorry that I misspelled your name it was not done on purpose. Now to Mr. Ronald Darts. Since I know His theology I will say this to you. He is good man will never say that He is not. But He goes mainly according to what was written in the Old Testament. He keeps all the Festivals etc. That is what we all kept when we were all united in the World Wide Church of God. As far as I can see He has not changed those beliefs. I know some older members that have become members of the United Church of God. One member even became a Minister of the United, so I know fairly well what their beliefs are. You are doing the same thing what we did when God called us out of the Catholic Church and away from keeping the trinity Doctrine. Bur you have to ask yourself a big Question, is that really what God wants? I have done so over and over again in these last few months since I am on this Website.
What have I learned is that there are three groups of beliefs. One Beliefs in the trinity, one beliefs in Keeping the Sabbath, and the third were I am in says that we are under Jesus Blood, and keeping the Sabbath is not going to save you if you do not have Love in your Heart. You can take any scripture and apply it to what you want to believe, you can certainly find one.
The bigger Question of the Day is who is right and who is wrong? And that we all have to do according to our mind. Were are we in the walk with Jesus our Lord and King. What are we doing in the rest of the week, that is important to me. Are you showing your neighbor Love. When we were in the W.W.C. of God we could not do that. They wanted you to stay away from infidels. I do not know if Mr. Ronald Darts has changed at all. That I would want to find out if I would want to join them. I have no intention to go back, I want to go forward. What Jesus told us to do is more important to me now. And always remember what Jesus is saying the Father is.Peace and Love Mrs.:D
Mrs,
Some people take certain teaching as “life or death”. That is, the above post tells me you still believe that those who teach the Sabbath or even observing the Feasts are saying you will be denied access to the new earth that Yeshua is preparing for us if you don't do them. Perhaps some are. But I can tell you that neither I nor Mr. Dart (best I can tell) are saying that. Instead we are encouraging such as a way to grow closer to God.
It is like I said before, if you know what a friend or mate in your life enjoys, you will try to share in those things. If your husband likes spagetti, you will cook it for him (if you are able) from time to time because you love him. Thus, God is pleased when we observe those things he made just for us. Did Yeshua not say that the Sabbath was made for man? Therefore, it was made for us to grow closer to God.
The same thing can be said of anything. If you choose to observe the Feasts and deny pagan holidays, do you not think that God is pleased? God is a loving Father.
Therefore, don't think of the Sabbath as a burden. People here have tried to make it into one, and perhaps SDA and WWCoG does as well, but it was never meant as a burden. It was made for a delight. After all, when the Israelites were first given the Sabbath, they had just been delivered from the Egyptians where they had worked every day and were given no time to themselves and certainly none to God. So God basically said “Tell you what. You work 6 days like I did, and then take the 7th day off. It will be a time we can spend together”.
Hope this clears up what I have been learning.
Mrs you are right who is right? The word is right. Not man and “his” ideas. Scriptures are plain and clear. The two commandments you keep pointing to “contain” the Ten commandments.
We walk in the Spirit “daily” but again (and you know this) on the Sabbath we give our Father ALL of our time.
What Mr. Dart says is scriptural. How can anyone deny that? But as you said the WWCG worked on fear and NOT love. I do not say keep the Sabbath to get saved. We are saved by faith in Jesus if this were not true then as revelations 18:4 says “come out of “her” “MY People”. There is only one way to be Jesus' People and that is to be saved by faith NOT the law!
But if we love the Father we want to do what pleases Him and I know YOU do want to please Him. Mrs I was born again when I studied with the WWCG. But the Lord showed me in a vision of the world covered in filth in a strainer. The filth coming off the world and through the strainer. What came through the strainer was “clean”. So I knew as I studied with all different denominations the main stream and the *NOT* main stream that I would learn truth from the lies they taught.
As I said the WWCG and the SDA taught the Sabbath by the letter of the law and when I tried keeping the Sabbath by the letter I became further from the Spirit rather than closer. Something was wrong YET I knew I should keep the Sabbath. After fasting and prayer for some time I was given by the Spirit the separation of the Law AND that Jesus had made the law “Spiritual” And that rather than follow the letter on the Sabbath follow the Spirit that I was following all week anyway.
I'm going to ask you keep the Sabbath but seek the Spirit on the Sabbath day. What would it hurt?
God bless,
Ken
“While it is true that Abraham, Noah, and many more before Moses were not Sabbath keepers, the fact is that God did indeed make one day holy, and He gave that day a name in Exodus 20. It is the one day that separates YHWH God from all the other gods men came to serve. So I agree with Ronald Dart when he says that the Sabbath identifies God. It is the one commandment given that is really different than what most would do according to human morality. If our God is the God of the Israelites, why the difference?”
KJ,
I can see YHWH is definately leading you, or shall I say, you have made the Messiah Yeshua your master and are following Him.I di copy this qoute of yours above because you wrote that the early teachers did not keep the Sabbath. Somewhere along your walk with Him, you will find that they did keep the Sabbath because it was ordained and Set-apart at creation, and these were men who communicated with YHWH. He has never changed and never will.
I am so very happy that you are searching whole heartedly and are prooving Scripture through Him and His Spirit, and not following after men and their traditions. I hope and pray you will remain strong in your faith. It will be to you more valuable thatn anything the world has to offer. Stay in His Word and follow His commands, for love, for YHWH our Elohim, and Yeshua Messiah His Son.
Laure
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/intro.html
KJ,
Just a good website for you to check out. The “real” calander is there somewhere.The WWCG and the RCG use the jewish calander which is not accurate since it is only based on the lunar cycles. YHWH uses a calander that can not be figured simply by the lunar cycle. When the barley is in abib YHWH says is when the year begins. This can never be predetermined by a scientifically based system.
The sun, moon, and stars were created at creation for His people, to know when to celebrate the Messiah. I say this because the Feasts point to the Messiah. They did in the old cov. and they do in the new cov.
Jewish astronomers used the lunar calander to determine the Feasts because they were kicked out of Israel. Today and since 1948, Israel is now again belonging to the Jewish people. Today the “real” calander has been re-established and is Scripturally and agriculturally accurate, according to YHWH our Elohim.
I do celebrate these Feasts, and now is Tabernacles. Thursday at sunset untill Friday at sunset is the celebration and rehersal of the “Last Great Day” or “Feast of Conclusion”, according to His calander.
My prayers are for you in your walk with YHWH, and you will be amazed at the things you will be shown, if you stay in His Word, and follow Yeshua Messiah.
Love,
Laurelemail me if you need anything
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 04 2007,03:20) Hi 94, I too thought as you did when I read the scriptures. 6 days work, 1 day rest, start over again. But while the principle may be valid, scripturally it does not line up. The reason I say this is that whenever you see the weekly Sabbath mentioned in scripture, it is always the same day. For instance, in Acts when you see that people were gathering on the Sabbath, it was not just an arbitrary day chosen by those who decided which cycle to observe, it was one single day, and was consistant from week to week. It was a Jewish national day first, and the earliest Gentile Christians continued to observe that very same day.
So the reality is that scripture does not define any other day. Do you know of any other religion where their God has set apart one particular day to make it holy?
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
While it is true that Abraham, Noah, and many more before Moses were not Sabbath keepers, the fact is that God did indeed make one day holy, and He gave that day a name in Exodus 20. It is the one day that separates YHWH God from all the other gods men came to serve. So I agree with Ronald Dart when he says that the Sabbath identifies God. It is the one commandment given that is really different than what most would do according to human morality. If our God is the God of the Israelites, why the difference?
I certainly do not judge you brother. I just ask that you prayerfully investigate the matter and shed yourself of what others would have you believe. This is between you and God so He has to convince you one way or the other. If only I was right than I'd be God and we know that is no where near the truth!!
But can you keep the Sabbath and still worship as a corporate body on Sunday? I don't see any scripture against it! I think the Sabbath is not about worship in particular (at least how modern man views worship) as it is a day that you cease from normal weekly activities and take up God's work. Yeshua worked everyday doing his Father's business, so he showed that it is lawful to do God's work on the Sabbath.
Joh 5:16 And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”See? Yeshua boldly states that doing the Father's work is lawful on the Sabbath! So its not so much about worship on that particular day as it is working for God and resting from man's labors.
Besides that, how many people even rest from man's work on Sunday? Sunday has become about worshiping corporately for a few hours and the rest of the day is spent doing other things. One of the last churches I attended does not even have Sunday night service anymore! They said it was for “family time” but you'd find mot of them watching football, hanging out at the mall, or whatever. So if Sunday is the “Christian sabbath” its turned out to be a poor one.
Let God lead as always!
Kevin
Hi KJ:If you believe that you should keep Saturday as the Sabbath day, then I would encouage you to do so. I wouldn't want you or any one else to do anything that is contrary to your conscience.
I have already shared what I believe to be true relative to the Sabbath, and I am happy with what I do.
Yes, it is true that most Sunday Christians do not keep the Sabbath on that day or any day, but as you say, most of them go to church and then go about doing their own pleasures on that day.
As I have shared in my personal testimony, I am awaiting to be ordained as a Bishop in the church, and I believe that this will happen in God's timing. I will then teach those under my authority what God has taught me relative to the Sabbath. But I will not rule by force, I will teach and set the example. Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments”, and so, it has to be in a person's heart to obey. You cannot force someone to obey.
Keep on striving to obey the Commandments of our God, and I will do the same. I am not judging you, and I am glad that you are not judging me.
The day that our work week begins may have changed because we start our work week on Monday in the United States, but the 4th Commandment has not been changed with what I practice.
I had the following song on my heart when I awoke this morning which goes: And I'm forever grateful, to you, I'm forever grateful for the cross, I'm forever grateful, to you, that you came to seek and save the lost. I know that my Father loves me because he came seeking for me when I was lost in sin, and because after He found me, He has corrected me many a time which any Father who loves his son will do if He truly love him. And part of my morning prayer routine is: “Father if I am teaching anything that is not your Word or doing anything that is not your will correct me”, and I know that He will. It is my desire to please Him and my Lord in all that I do.
God Bless
94bishop,
Many of your posts are inspiring to me, all members of the church are necessary, no matter where we are in our walk with our Master.
I do have this to say to you though: If you were driving down the highway and saw “sign” that read “caution steep ravine to the right or left” and did not heed this “sign”, you would end up down that ravine. Some already going slow, due to a disability, will not go over the edge.What if the highway was foggy and the sign was not visible? Many more would go off into the ravine, except those skillfully able, or those going slow already.
So what I'm saying is: It is possible for us to go through life without heeding the “signs” under certain circumstances, BUT it is better that we know the “sign” and heed it.
Laurel
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 04 2007,02:26) Quote If you have an opinion that Sunday is the wrong day for a person to observe the Sabbath then state it as an opinion and not in a way that indicates that you are the final authority on the matter which you are not. In other words, you are not the judge. I have NO authority 94. I know NO Man has the authority to make a day HOLY, do you?
Where in Scripture is word SUNDAY, or any of the other days of the week. Again and again and again, Only the Seventh Day has a name Sabbath.
In your “opinion”. This is NOT my opinion this is scripture. Even you admit that the Seventh day is the day YHWH kept.
You and the church you attend keep the first day of the Roman Catholic Church who IS the Harlot. Sorry that's the facts. The facts are that the RCC changed the Sabbath day. And all of her “daughters” keep her false sabbath.
It is Not my opinion 94, it is scripture that the Seventh day IS the Sabbath and NO other day is God's Sabbath. Sunday is your and the RCC and her daughters sabbath.
If you or any one teach that you can keep any day you want then I will give the scriptures that say which day is the Sabbath.
Say what you want about me. But it is God's Word that is truth.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
If we can just do what we want then why do we have the Word?
Scripture states that the seventh day is the Sabbath.
Hi Ken:I am not going to argue with you over this. I'll just let God be the judge. I know that you are sincere in what you are doing, but I believe that you are judging in the way that you present what you believe to be true.
But it is a minor thing to me if someone judges me, and I just want to say that I do not hold anything against you for this. It is no problem for me to forgive, and so, I forgive you whether or not you repent. I'll just let this be an issue between you and the Lord. If you are wrong, I hope that he will let you see your fault for your sake and the sake of the church.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 04 2007,13:42) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 04 2007,02:26) Quote If you have an opinion that Sunday is the wrong day for a person to observe the Sabbath then state it as an opinion and not in a way that indicates that you are the final authority on the matter which you are not. In other words, you are not the judge. I have NO authority 94. I know NO Man has the authority to make a day HOLY, do you?
Where in Scripture is word SUNDAY, or any of the other days of the week. Again and again and again, Only the Seventh Day has a name Sabbath.
In your “opinion”. This is NOT my opinion this is scripture. Even you admit that the Seventh day is the day YHWH kept.
You and the church you attend keep the first day of the Roman Catholic Church who IS the Harlot. Sorry that's the facts. The facts are that the RCC changed the Sabbath day. And all of her “daughters” keep her false sabbath.
It is Not my opinion 94, it is scripture that the Seventh day IS the Sabbath and NO other day is God's Sabbath. Sunday is your and the RCC and her daughters sabbath.
If you or any one teach that you can keep any day you want then I will give the scriptures that say which day is the Sabbath.
Say what you want about me. But it is God's Word that is truth.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
If we can just do what we want then why do we have the Word?
Scripture states that the seventh day is the Sabbath.
Hi Ken:I am not going to argue with you over this. I'll just let God be the judge. I know that you are sincere in what you are doing, but I believe that you are judging in the way that you present what you believe to be true.
But it is a minor thing to me if someone judges me, and I just want to say that I do not hold anything against you for this. It is no problem for me to forgive, and so, I forgive you whether or not you repent. I'll just let this be an issue between you and the Lord. If you are wrong, I hope that he will let you see your fault for your sake and the sake of the church.
God Bless
Brother God Is the Judge not me. I'm just pointing out what scripture says. It's NOT judgement day. The Sabbath is the Seventh Day that God Himself kept.God bless 94,
Ken
I am open to learning things relating to this topic.
I would just like to add this:
The Law was made for the sinner.
If we love God with all our heart/soul/mind and our fellow man as ourself, then the law is fulfilled.
But we are not perfect and we fall short (even now). But Jesus died on the cross and we are forgiven of our debt(s).As long as the above understanding is not nullified, I will listen to what people say, so long as it doesn't contradict.
After all, who wants to go back to the Law after we have been given such a grace.
Romans 13:8
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.Letter to Gentile Believers
Acts 15:22-29
22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.Regarding the law, gentiles were told “It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.”
Why wasn't the Sabbath mentioned?
Why wasn't murder mentioned?Is the law being spoken of excluding of the commandments?
If no, then the second point may not have been mentioned because if we love one another as we love ourselves, then we will not murder or steal, etc. Can we assume that if we love God with all our heart, that we should keep the Sabbath? Or is it not relevant to gentile believers in the greater covenant.
BTW, the old covenant is not done away with completely because there are still those under the law. Those of the law will be judged by the law.
What of the Sabbath?
Is it Law? Is it something that applies to the new covenant as a gentile believer? If we try to keep the Sabbath as a requirement, are we going back to the Law?We know the law was made for the sinner and is relevant so long as there is sin. But if we are redeemed, then are we exempt, if we keep the 2 greater commandments, to love God and to love our fellow man?
I remain open and teachable.
Thanks for all your input so far.
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 03 2007,21:10) WJ, I thought you were above matters such as this. You don't like what a guy is teaching, so you delve into his background so you can find reasons to deny what he is saying. Does it really matter where he came from? I have been listening to Mr. Dart now for several months and he and I disagree on many matters, but I check him out on scripture and he is typically “spot on”.
I think you need to listen to the one part you speak of again about keeping circumcision. His implication was that modern American (his target audience) males are typically circumcised anyways. I was, and it had nothing to do with a religion. So he was not saying that circumcision was important as a matter of Christianity.
Let me ask you, where do you find in scripture that people worshiped on the Sunday (the first day of the week)? Gentiles or Jews? The closest you have is this:
Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
But what DO we see in scripture (ESV)?
Act 13:42 As they went out, the people begged that these things might be told them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:43 And after the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who, as they spoke with them, urged them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.
Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him.
Act 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'”
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.Act 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of Macedonia and a Roman colony. We remained in this city some days.
Act 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together.Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.”
Act 17:4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.Act 18:4 And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
As you can see, if Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, did not leave the Sabbath behind, what does that say? And as you can see, Gentiles gathered on the Sabbath as well. There is no place in scripture where Sunday worship is taught.
This is not a matter of who is right or wrong, just that there is no scriptural basis for the Sabbath being changed to Sunday. As Christians, we should look to the Bible to see what is says about our faith.
What I don't get is that there are some on here who leave Christmas and Easter behind, but don't think twice about Sunday being the “Christian Sabbath”. The first 2 are not taught in scripture and neither is Sunday Sabbath.
And this is not about the Law. Or salvation is not found in the Law, but we should seek out ways to please our God.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one–who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.LG & LP,
Kevin
kejonnYou say…
Quote
I thought you were above matters such as this. You don't like what a guy is teaching, so you delve into his background so you can find reasons to deny what he is saying. Does it really matter where he came from? I have been listening to Mr. Dart now for several months and he and I disagree on many matters, but I check him out on scripture and he is typically “spot on”.First of all I think you are being a little over reactive.
If you read my post it is not about Mr Dart. Regardless do you not check out the sources of the person you are listening to?
I post a lot of sights from the sources I quote so people can check them out. Also I said…
Quote He seems to be a nice Guy and good teacher so I am not going to say anything against his character, but I do disagree with his theology. So like you I disagree with him on many things, the Sabbath for one and the feast and circumcision.
You say…
Quote
I think you need to listen to the one part you speak of again about keeping circumcision. His implication was that modern American (his target audience) males are typically circumcised anyways. I was, and it had nothing to do with a religion. So he was not saying that circumcision was important as a matter of Christianity.To much information. But, as far as the circumcision, I am not sure what you heard him say. But I went back and listened again and the “Implication” I got is that this Law has not changed either for the Christian or the Jew.
He said…
“This is a circumcision salvation issuen not merely whether it is a good idea to keep the Law.
The Sabbath which is every bit as big in the Jewish mind as circumcision is. They were really in a sence the twin pillars.”You say…
Quote
Let me ask you, where do you find in scripture that people worshiped on the Sunday (the first day of the week)? Gentiles or Jews? The closest you have is this:Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
:Sunday in America is the 7th day. Monday is the first.
Thats the whole problem isnt it kejonn. My last post was about the Jewish calender that
obviously is inacurate.And as far as Sunday being important to the Christians a lot of things happened biblically on the first day of the week for the church to rejoice and celebrate about.
The 7 post-resurrection appearances of Christ show that Jesus purposefully chose the first day of the week to meet with His disciples to encourage and exhort them. The evidence shows that five of these appearances occurred on a Sunday, the first day of the week. We do no have a record of what the actual day on which the other appearances (John 21 and Acts 1:6-10) occurred to His disciples. What we can say with accuracy is this, after Jesus' resurrection whenever He met with His disciples and the day is identified, it is NOT the Sabbath, it is the first day of the week!
1). To Mary, On the morning of the resurrection – Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9; John 20:11-18
2). To two disciples going to Emmaus – Luke 24:13-33; Mark 16:12-13
3). To Simon (Peter) – Luke 24:31-35.
4). To the eleven disciples on the evening of Resurrection Sunday – Mark 16:14-18; Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-23
5). To the Eleven disciples “Eight days later” – John 20:26-29
Pentecost happened on the first day of the week! The Church was born on the first day of the week! That doesn't make Sunday the Sabbath, it just tells you that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Sabbath is not emphasized.
When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week.
1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).
2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).
3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the communion meal (Luke 22:19) and their “eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (Luke 24:31).
4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying “Peace be with you” (John 20:20; 26).
5). That same Sunday evening Jesus “…breathed on them and said, 'receive the Holy Spirit'” John 20:22.
6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).
https://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/tabid/53/Default.aspxYou say…
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But what DO we see in scripture (ESV)?We see the Jews going into the synagogues on the Sabbath as it was their custom to do so.
But the Christian Church is brand new at this time. Where is there scripture showing the Apostles commanding the keeping of the “silent Sabbath” as Mr Dart puts it?
What we do see is this…Acts 15:28,29
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell..Why didnt the Holy Spirit mention the Sabbath here?
You say…
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As you can see, if Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, did not leave the Sabbath behind, what does that say? And as you can see, Gentiles gathered on the Sabbath as well. There is no place in scripture where Sunday worship is taught.There is no place in in NT scriptures or the New Covenant where the physical 7th day Sabbath is taught.
You say…
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This is not a matter of who is right or wrong, just that there is no scriptural basis for the Sabbath being changed to Sunday. As Christians, we should look to the Bible to see what is says about our faith.What I don't get is that there are some on here who leave Christmas and Easter behind, but don't think twice about Sunday being the “Christian Sabbath”. The first 2 are not taught in scripture and neither is Sunday Sabbath.
It is a matter of right and wrong!!! Especially when those who claim to be Sabbath keepers try to bring Born again Spirit filled believers under the Law by claiming they are not serving God or of the Harlot or the antichrist because they dont observe the law, feast, sabbath, circumcision.
Some of them claim its the mark of the beast. What kind of fruit is that?
You say…
Quote And this is not about the Law. Or salvation is not found in the Law, but we should seek out ways to please our God. Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one–who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.I believe as we walk in the Spirit we are not under the law and that is how we please God. We walk by faith and not by sight or the outward observance of the physical 7th day Sabbath which was a type and shadow of our rest in Christ by ceasing from our own works and depending totally on his work in us. Jesus said it is finished!
Heb 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.Walking in the Spirit means we will bear the fruit of the Spirit, for the Kingdom of God is rightousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.
Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Eph 5:9
For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.Rom 14:5 NASB
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.Heb 4:3
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He ha
s said, “AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.Blessings!
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 03 2007,22:34) Letter to Gentile Believers Acts 15:22-29
22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.Regarding the law, gentiles were told “It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.”
Why wasn't the Sabbath mentioned?
Why wasn't murder mentioned?Is the law being spoken of excluding of the commandments?
If no, then the second point may not have been mentioned because if we love one another as we love ourselves, then we will not murder or steal, etc. Can we assume that if we love God with all our heart, that we should keep the Sabbath? Or is it not relevant to gentile believers in the greater covenant.
BTW, the old covenant is not done away with completely because there are still those under the law. Those of the law will be judged by the law.
What of the Sabbath?
Is it Law? Is it something that applies to the new covenant as a gentile believer? If we try to keep the Sabbath as a requirement, are we going back to the Law?We know the law was made for the sinner and is relevant so long as there is sin. But if we are redeemed, then are we exempt, if we keep the 2 greater commandments, to love God and to love our fellow man?
I remain open and teachable.
Thanks for all your input so far.
t8,Here is your context
Act 15:1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.“.
There are 2 things to note here, but one is not evident. 1) the apostles were agreeing that there was nothing outside of repentance and believing on Yeshua that saves, thus so should we. 2) the is no record of these Gentiles worshiping on any other day so why should this be brought up? Worshiping on the Sabbath did not seem to be a point of contention among the Gentile believers. Worshiping on Sunday started AFTER the NT was written.
Quote (Laurel @ Oct. 04 2007,13:39) 94bishop,
Many of your posts are inspiring to me, all members of the church are necessary, no matter where we are in our walk with our Master.
I do have this to say to you though: If you were driving down the highway and saw “sign” that read “caution steep ravine to the right or left” and did not heed this “sign”, you would end up down that ravine. Some already going slow, due to a disability, will not go over the edge.What if the highway was foggy and the sign was not visible? Many more would go off into the ravine, except those skillfully able, or those going slow already.
So what I'm saying is: It is possible for us to go through life without heeding the “signs” under certain circumstances, BUT it is better that we know the “sign” and heed it.
Laurel
Hi Laurel and all who have participated relative to this topic.Through my current circumstances which prevent me from keeping the Sabbath day on Sunday(signs, as you say, Laurel), God is showing me that He wants for me to keep the Saturday Sabbath. The reason is because this a last day movement where many Jews will come to the Lord. We would not expect them to keep the Sabbath on any day other than the biblical Sabbath.
As for the work week beginning on Monday here in the United States, that will not be an issue that will prevent the “six days thou shalt labour and do all thy work…” commandment since the work week is a five day work week. It will just mean that we will not do work that is not of a necessity around the house on Saturday, and do those things on Sunday thus beginning our work week on Sunday.
Changing the day that we go to church and worship will not be a problem as I see it for those that God puts under my authority as Bishop over the church.
This is what God wants and so this is what we shall do.
Quote Ezekiel 37:19
Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
37:20
And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
37:21
And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
37:22
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
37:23
Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
37:24
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
37:25
And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.God Bless
94,
Good news! But always remember who you are doing it for: God. Never let it be for your own righteousness but as a strong way to grow close to the One who made you. If we approach all we do with a mind towards pleasing our heavenly Father, it should not be a point of contention with another sibling in Christ.
Quote Through my current circumstances which prevent me from keeping the Sabbath day on Sunday(signs, as you say, Laurel), God is showing me that He wants for me to keep the Saturday Sabbath. The reason is because this a last day movement where many Jews will come to the Lord. We would not expect them to keep the Sabbath on any day other than the biblical Sabbath. Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;
I believe this is where we are at in Revelations. These people are “Christians” being Jesus' people. The physical fleshly Jew that does not believe that Jesus was the Messiah is NOT one of HIS people.
Mar 3:32 And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you.”
Mar 3:33 And he answered them, “Who are my mother and my brothers?”
Mar 3:34 And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!
Mar 3:35 Whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.”Well 94 I'm very glad that you will seek to keep the seventh day. Of course we are grafted into Israel and scripture says we are “one” in Christ, Gal.3:28. Neither Jew nor Greek nor male or female we are all one in Christ.
God bless,
Ken
For t8,
I am happy to see your wanting to know the truth of the matter.
First I will give you my reason for keeping the Sabbaths. Then I'll post Scripture to back up my belief.The number one reason I keep the Sabbaths is that is it the 4th commandment. Early in my walk with Y'shua I kept Sunday. I was keeping Sunday becaise I thought it was good to go to church to learn about my God and to worship Him.
Some things were going on inside of me, and I felt like I was missing part of my being. I started reaing the Bible more often. I learned about the Old Covenant. I love the book of Deuteronomy. I saw Jesus all over in Deuteronomy, and wondered why the Orthodox Jews couldn't see Him there.
My mom is a 7th day adventist. To me that only meant she went to a different church than I did. One day we were talking about religion. I asked her to tell me why she went to church on Saturday. My mom was a rotten person when I was growing up, she didn't go to her church. She went to Sunay church with us. She had shown a softening in her heart toward me that I knew had to come from God. So I listened to her explanation about the Sabbath. She said she was afraid to tell me, and put it off, so as not to put the “burden” on me. I didn't understand what she meant, I was angry that she kept some kind of secret from me.
Now I was determined to find the truth! I called my Sunday pastor and questiond him. To this day I have never gotten an answer as to why we kept Sunday! That was a huge “sign.” I began studying His Word more and more, then I called one of the elders of the church whom I trusted. I was begining to see that His Sabbath is Saturday. The elder of my Sunday church is an educated man. He taught me about Issiac and Ishmel and the 6 day war, so when he told me the Sabbath was Saturday, it was pretty clear. He said he believed it was ok to honor the Sunday because Christ died to cover all sin.
I read Scripture more and more, talked to more and more Sunday people, and I began to see a commonality. Sunday worshippers do not think it is a sin to sin! They feel Jesus died for their sin. I being a woman with internal emotions and forsight, went to see the movie “The Passion of the Christ.” I was so sick and so sad and I can't tell you how aweful I felt when I saw what they ddid to my Jesus. I had to leave the theater before the “good part.” I could not bear to watch.
I thought I did this to Him. It is my fault He was cricified. People just like me hated Him for being so perfect. Everything I did wrong was one more pain He felt because of me.
After that, I quit Sunday church. I could not bear to cause more pain to the Son who did not deserve a drop of pain. I read Scripture more and more, I found Him there. I am so glad I did! I love His Book, I love His Son, I see the world through a crystal clear glass. I see Him who Created all and I am humbled by the thought of knowing His sacrifice for me. I am also a parent so I can relate to seeing a child suffer.
Today I am a new person, a renewed person. Gentiles do not need to know all the details of who, what, why, and when. We only need to believe that Y'shua is the Messiah and the Son of Elohim, and guard the commands. That is the joy of YHWH. His forgiveness cover all those accidental blunders, because He knows we do not know. As we continue in our walk with our Master Y'shua Messiah, we learn and all “these things” are added to us. It is called growing in faith, or living in His Word, or being blesse by His grace, through His Spirit. The more I learn, the more sin and Satan flee from me. My Master is a light that shines befor me and shows to Way to the path that leads to YHWH, and His kingdom.
Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
The laws never changed, the law is a teacher. The way by which we receive Salvation is what changed, for we are not expected to know things that were never a part of our heritage. We grow into knowing these things, and by His grace and mercy, through our acknowledging His Son, we are saved already! Now we put on our shoes of the preparation of the “good news”, the helmet of salvation, the sheild of faith, clothe ourself with truth, pick up the two-edged sword which is the Spirit of Elohim, and pray always for the redemption, strength, and fogiveness for His people, His children Israel.
Israel by the way is Spiritual under the New and Improved Covenant. It has to be for we are spread out across the entire planet, having no teacher, but the Spirit and His Word, and other believer like us. Organized religion is a dead tree dropping seeds. “Come out of her my people.”
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 04 2007,01:51) kejonn You say…
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I thought you were above matters such as this. You don't like what a guy is teaching, so you delve into his background so you can find reasons to deny what he is saying. Does it really matter where he came from? I have been listening to Mr. Dart now for several months and he and I disagree on many matters, but I check him out on scripture and he is typically “spot on”.First of all I think you are being a little over reactive.
If you read my post it is not about Mr Dart. Regardless do you not check out the sources of the person you are listening to?
OK, gotcha. You WERE talking about the CGI and not Mr. Dart. But why bring them up in this, even the Jewish calendar, when we are talking about the weekly Sabbath, and not the various feasts?Quote I post a lot of sights from the sources I quote so people can check them out. Also I said…
Like the time you listed a translation of a verse from a Bible translated by an anti-trinitarian?
Quote Quote He seems to be a nice Guy and good teacher so I am not going to say anything against his character, but I do disagree with his theology. So like you I disagree with him on many things, the Sabbath for one and the feast and circumcision.
That is fair. And if you listen to him, he is never condemning in them. He is only teaching scripture and encouraging. But you are still wrong about what he said on circumcision. He said that circumcision IS still in effect for Jews. So those who are born as Jews remain so even if their family is Christian. Judaism is more than just another religion, it is also a heritage. Ever heard of Jews for Jesus or Messianic Jews, etc.? From my understanding, Jews don’t stop being Jews when they accept Christ because he is their Messiah.Quote You say… Quote
I think you need to listen to the one part you speak of again about keeping circumcision. His implication was that modern American (his target audience) males are typically circumcised anyways. I was, and it had nothing to do with a religion. So he was not saying that circumcision was important as a matter of Christianity.To much information. But, as far as the circumcision, I am not sure what you heard him say. But I went back and listened again and the “Implication” I got is that this Law has not changed either for the Christian or the Jew.
Nope. He said only for Jews, whether they are Christian or not. One can be Jewish by nationality and accept Yeshua as Lord to be a Christian.Quote He said…
“This is a circumcision salvation issuen not merely whether it is a good idea to keep the Law.
The Sabbath which is every bit as big in the Jewish mind as circumcision is. They were really in a sence the twin pillars.”
Put it in the context of what he was teaching. He said it WAS a circumcision salvation issue. He was talking about what was going on in Acts 15. Remember that all the Apostles at this time were Jewish and Paul was meeting with them in Jerusalem. So, yes, to Jews, both then and today, these ARE two pillars. But like he said three times in the last session, “Circumcision identifies the Jew, the Sabbath identifies God”. So to a Jew, whether he has accepted Yeshua as the Messiah or not, these two are still pillars today. Note that Paul often spoke against Gentiles having to be circumcised because it was for Jews, not Gentiles. Yet he never said a word about the Sabbath because everybody at the time, both Jews and Gentiles, were gathering on the Sabbath.Quote You say… Quote
Let me ask you, where do you find in scripture that people worshiped on the Sunday (the first day of the week)? Gentiles or Jews? The closest you have is this:Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
:Sunday in America is the 7th day. Monday is the first.
Really? Here's what I see on calendars:
Looks like Sunday is the 1st day to me…Quote Thats the whole problem isnt it kejonn. My last post was about the Jewish calender that obviously is inacurate.
Perhaps, but we’re talking about the weekly Sabbath, not the other holy days. The seventh day continue to be the seventh day. In any case, how does the Jewish calendar week differ from the Gregorian? From wikipediaThe Hebrew calendar follows the common seven-day weekly cycle. The Hebrew names for the weekdays are simply the day number within the week, in Hebrew, sometimes (noticeably in the newspapers) abbreviated as יום א׳ (Day 1 = Sunday) and so on, using the numerical value of the Hebrew letters:
Yom Rishon (Hebrew: יום ראשון), abbreviated יום א׳ = “first day” = Sunday
Yom Sheni (יום שני), abbr. יום ב׳ = “second day” = Monday
Yom Shlishi (יום שלישי), abbr. יום ג׳ = “third day” = Tuesday
Yom Reviʻi (יום רבעי), abbr. יום ד׳ = “fourth day” = Wednesday
Yom Ḥamishi
(יום חמישי), abbr. יום ה׳ = “fifth day” = Thursday
Yom Shishi (יום ששי), abbr. יום ו׳ = “sixth day” = Friday
Yom Shabbat (יום שבת or more usually שבת – Shabbat), abbr. יום ז׳ = “seventh day or Sabbath day (Rest day)” = SaturdayQuote And as far as Sunday being important to the Christians a lot of things happened biblically on the first day of the week for the church to rejoice and celebrate about. The 7 post-resurrection appearances of Christ show that Jesus purposefully chose the first day of the week to meet with His disciples to encourage and exhort them. The evidence shows that five of these appearances occurred on a Sunday, the first day of the week. We do no have a record of what the actual day on which the other appearances (John 21 and Acts 1:6-10) occurred to His disciples. What we can say with accuracy is this, after Jesus' resurrection whenever He met with His disciples and the day is identified, it is NOT the Sabbath, it is the first day of the week!
Well, if you consider that he either rose at the close of the Sabbath or at the beginning of the seventh day (somewhere around sunset Saturday), do you think that he would wait a whole week to meet with them? Could you imagine what would happen to the disciples faith if they found the empty tomb and did not encounter the risen Lord for a full week? They would have scattered like flies and Christianity would have never happened. Thank God he revealed himself to them very soon after he rose.So what would Christianity be today if he lingered and appeared to them on the second day? Would most churches worship on Monday then?
Quote 1). To Mary, On the morning of the resurrection – Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9; John 20:11-18 2). To two disciples going to Emmaus – Luke 24:13-33; Mark 16:12-13
3). To Simon (Peter) – Luke 24:31-35.
4). To the eleven disciples on the evening of Resurrection Sunday – Mark 16:14-18; Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-23
5). To the Eleven disciples “Eight days later” – John 20:26-29
So why is this day (Monday) not a special day? Why not worship on Monday since he gathered with them then?Quote Pentecost happened on the first day of the week! The Church was born on the first day of the week! That doesn't make Sunday the Sabbath, it just tells you that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Sabbath is not emphasized.
Did you know that Pentecost is related to the Shavuot, or the “Feast of the Weeks” as seen in the OT? And did you know that the Sadducees have always believed that the Feast of Weeks always falls on a Sunday, just as Pentecost? The Book of Jubilees, written in the second century BC, agrees with this. So here again, you have a Christian holy day that is deeply rooted in Jewish custom.But you say that the Sabbath is not emphasized after this yet all throughout Acts after chapter 2, we see the disciples going about teaching on the Sabbath. So I think you may be a little quick to throw out the statement that the Sabbath was not emphasized. The fact is, since it appears that all Christians were indeed worshiping on the Sabbath, there was no reason to emphasize it.
We do know that the Gentiles were not being circumcised and that was an issue with the Jews. But Paul and the others were quick to point out that the Gentiles were not Jews, and that circumcision was a Jewish custom.
Quote When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week. 1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).
2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).
No. OK, we know that Yeshua appeared to his disciples on Sunday. So if he appeared again eight days later, that makes the day Monday, not Sunday.
Quote 3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the communion meal (Luke 22:19) and their “eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (Luke 24:31).
It was Sunday evening on the second occasion, but the weekday in Luke 22:19 is not known with a certainty. It could have been Sunday, but even so, Passover is not a weekly observation. That, and it is a Jewish holy day.Quote 4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying “Peace be with you” (John 20:20; 26). 5). That same Sunday evening Jesus “…breathed on them and said, 'receive the Holy Spirit'” John 20:22.
6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).
https://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/tabid/53/Default.aspx
But again, all this shows is that Yeshua was busy on the first full day after his resurrection. If the New Covenant was made and sealed on the cross, why do we continue to see them, along with Gentile converts, continuing to gather on the Sabbath? We do not see them moving this to a new day in any single place in the Bible.Quote We see the Jews going into the synagogues on the Sabbath as it was their custom to do so.
But the Christian Church is brand new at this time. Where is there scripture showing the Apostles commanding the keeping of the “silent Sabbath” as Mr Dart puts it?
What we do see is this…Acts 15:28,29
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell..Why didnt the Holy Spirit mention the Sabbath here?
That’s an easy one. These things were all part of pagan worship and it was necessary to teach them otherwise. Again, the new converts were gathering on the Sabbath so it did not need to be taught.You may ask why the Bible does not address Sunday worship if God knew many would move to it. But you fai
l to see that He did! The word “Sabbath” is found in 116 verses, and all of the apostles and new Gentile converts observed the Sabbath. What more did God need to show us?Quote You say… Quote
As you can see, if Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, did not leave the Sabbath behind, what does that say? And as you can see, Gentiles gathered on the Sabbath as well. There is no place in scripture where Sunday worship is taught.There is no place in in NT scriptures or the New Covenant where the physical 7th day Sabbath is taught.
What do you mean by “physical”? Are we talking the specific day? Since it has always been the same day for Jews since it was given to them after the Exodus, why does there need to be any more said about it?If you are speaking of the manner in which to observe it, correct. It is spiritual, not physical. Yet, how does this change the actual day of the week?
Quote You say… Quote
This is not a matter of who is right or wrong, just that there is no scriptural basis for the Sabbath being changed to Sunday. As Christians, we should look to the Bible to see what is says about our faith.What I don't get is that there are some on here who leave Christmas and Easter behind, but don't think twice about Sunday being the “Christian Sabbath”. The first 2 are not taught in scripture and neither is Sunday Sabbath.
It is a matter of right and wrong!!! Especially when those who claim to be Sabbath keepers try to bring Born again Spirit filled believers under the Law by claiming they are not serving God or of the Harlot or the antichrist because they dont observe the law, feast, sabbath, circumcision.
Some of them claim its the mark of the beast. What kind of fruit is that?
And I will struggle against such legalists. The law has always been a burden, but it is still a guide for what pleases God. Even if you didn’t look into it, can you say God is pleased with what you do in any case? Not in all things because we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. But how do we know what God considers a sin? The Bible shows us much, and the Holy Spirit teaches us the rest.Yeshua said that not one iota of the law would pass until all is fulfilled. Since this earth has not passed away, the law still stands. Not the penalty, but the guidance. It still leads us to what pleases God. We cannot find righteousness in it for Christ is our righteousness, but we can learn how to become closer to God in it.
Quote You say… Quote And this is not about the Law. Or salvation is not found in the Law, but we should seek out ways to please our God. Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one–who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.I believe as we walk in the Spirit we are not under the law and that is how we please God. We walk by faith and not by sight or the outward observance of the physical 7th day Sabbath which was a type and shadow of our rest in Christ by ceasing from our own works and depending totally on his work in us. Jesus said it is finished!
Heb 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.Walking in the Spirit means we will bear the fruit of the Spirit, for the Kingdom of God is rightousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.
Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Eph 5:9
For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.Rom 14:5 NASB
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.Heb 4:3
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.Blessings!
All of the usual ones, and the same I had used in the past. But as I said, its not a matter of salvation, it is a matter of love. If we love God, we seek to please Him in HIS way, not ours. And it should not be to gain favor or avoid punishment; it should be to give just a little back to the one who gave His Son so that we may live with Him for eternity.
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