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Quote (942767 @ Oct. 03 2007,11:53) Hi All: The 4th Commandment states:
Quote 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. The model week was for the Nation of Israel to work six consequtive days and rest on the Seventh day. The work week started on Sunday and ended on Saturday. In the United States, the work week starts on Monday and the seventh day is Sunday.
While it would be nice if we could all observe the Sabbath on Saturday, with the work week in society starting on Monday, I do not see that this would be possible unless Christians owned sufficient of the businesses to hire all of the Christians in our society. If we owned the businesses, we could start the work week on Sunday. Yes, you can rest on Saturday when you start your work week on Monday, but you would be working 5 days and then resting and then working on Sunday or resting Saturday and Sunday. That isn't the model that was set.
I still hold to my belief that it is not about a specific day, but the Seventh day is relative to when the work week begins. It is about the principle of resting on the seventh day and setting this day for Worship with fellow believers. The meaning of the day kept is the same.
I believe that we should keep all of the Commandments of our God, and I believe that I am striving to do this.
I commend all who are striving to obey the 4th Commandment and if your conscience says that you should observe it on Saturday because that is the day that was observed in the scriptures, than that is what you should do. I only ask that you not judge me for what I do.
Quote Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded F56 in his own mind God Bless
Scripture judges. I have not add nor taken away from scripture.There is only one day with a name in the whole word of God and that day is the seventh day. To keep that day holy is God's forth commandment.
While this is between you and YHWH. Do you really think you should teach that YOU can make any day Holy? This is when I believe I have a right to teach the truth. I am very sorry if you see this as judging.
The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath.
God bless,
Ken
Folks, here's the next in the series, and very important
http://www.borntowin.net/radioprograms/christian_holidays_23.mp3
The one thing said that hit me like a ton of bricks was this statement: “Circumcision identified the Jews, the Sabbath identified God!”.
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 03 2007,12:57) Folks, here's the next in the series, and very important http://www.borntowin.net/radioprograms/christian_holidays_23.mp3
The one thing said that hit me like a ton of bricks was this statement: “Circumcision identified the Jews, the Sabbath identified God!”.
Thanks Kejonn
Quote Scriptures in the NEW TESTAMENT say to keep the commandments of God. Yes, 1 John 5:3 for example says that.
A commandment is “something that is commanded; a command.”
To command is to direct with authority, which of course, God has.
Anything God tells us is a command, for he is the ultimate authority.And through the Bible God tells us a lot.
One command he gave to the nation of Israel involved the Sabbath. The law of Moses consists of more than 600 individual laws, or commandments, including the 10 main ones.
The Law was not given to all humankind.
Jehovah made a covenant, or an agreement, with the descendants of Jacob, who became the nation of Israel. Jehovah gave his laws to this nation only.
The Bible makes this clear at Deuteronomy 5:1-3 and Psalm 147:19, 20.The apostle Paul asked the question: “Why, then, the Law?”
It is a good question. For what purpose did Jehovah give his law to Israel?
Paul answered: “To make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made . . . Consequently the Law has become our tutor [or, teacher] leading to Christ.” ” (Galatians 3:19-24)
The special purpose of the Law was to protect and guide the nation of Israel so that they might be ready to accept Christ when he arrived. The many sacrifices required by the Law reminded the Israelites that they were sinners who needed a Savior.—Hebrews 10:1-4.
When Christ came as that Savior and gave his perfect life as a sacrifice, what happened to the Law? It was removed. “We are no longer under a tutor,” Paul explained. (Galatians 3:25) The removal of the Law was a relief to the Israelites. It had shown them up as sinners, for all of them fell short of keeping that Law perfectly.
“Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law,” Paul said. (Galatians 3:10-14) So the Bible also says: “Christ is the end of the Law.”—Romans 10:4; 6:14.The Law actually served as a barrier or “wall” between the Israelites and other peoples who were not under it. By the sacrifice of his life, however, Christ “abolished . . . the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples [Israelite and non-Israelite] in union with himself into one new man.” (Ephesians 2:11-18)
Concerning the action that Jehovah God himself took toward the law of Moses, we read:
: “He kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees [including the Ten Commandments] and which was in opposition to us [because of condemning the Israelites as sinners]; and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.” ” (Colossians 2:13, 14) So, with the perfect sacrifice of Christ, the Law was brought to an end.. In his Sermon on the Mount Jesus quoted from the Ten Commandments as well as other parts of the Law and made no distinction between them. Jesus thus showed that the law of Moses was not divided into two parts.—Matthew 5:21-42.
“Now we have been discharged from the Law.” –Paul
Was it only the laws other than the Ten Commandments that the Jews were discharged from? No, for Paul goes on to say: “Really I would not have come to know sin if it had not been for the Law; and, for example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: ‘You must not covet.’” (Romans 7:6, 7; Exodus 20:17) Since “You must not covet” is the last one of the Ten Commandments, it follows that the Israelites were discharged from the Ten Commandments also.Does this mean that the law to keep a weekly Sabbath, which is the fourth of the Ten Commandments, was also removed? Yes, it does. What the Bible says at Galatians 4:8-11 and Colossians 2:16, 17 shows that Christians are not under God’s law given to the Israelites, with its requirement to keep the weekly Sabbath and to observe other special days in the year. That keeping a weekly Sabbath is not a Christian requirement can also be seen from Romans 14:5.
While laws can change, the principles behind them will always remain. The principle behind the sabbath is one that we should all consider. But we are no longer under that law, or in Paul's words, we have “been discharged from the law.”
david
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 03 2007,12:32) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 03 2007,11:53) Hi All: The 4th Commandment states:
Quote 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. The model week was for the Nation of Israel to work six consequtive days and rest on the Seventh day. The work week started on Sunday and ended on Saturday. In the United States, the work week starts on Monday and the seventh day is Sunday.
While it would be nice if we could all observe the Sabbath on Saturday, with the work week in society starting on Monday, I do not see that this would be possible unless Christians owned sufficient of the businesses to hire all of the Christians in our society. If we owned the businesses, we could start the work week on Sunday. Yes, you can rest on Saturday when you start your work week on Monday, but you would be working 5 days and then resting and then working on Sunday or resting Saturday and Sunday. That isn't the model that was set.
I still hold to my belief that it is not about a specific day, but the Seventh day is relative to when the work week begins. It is about the principle of resting on the seventh day and setting this day for Worship with fellow believers. The meaning of the day kept is the same.
I believe that we should keep all of the Commandments of our God, and I believe that I am striving to do this.
I commend all who are striving to obey the 4th Commandment and if your conscience says that you should observe it on Saturday because that is the day that was observed in the scriptures, than that is what you should do. I only ask that you not judge me for what I do.
Quote Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded F56 in his own mind God Bless
Scripture judges. I have not add nor taken away from scripture.There is only one day with a name in the whole word of God and that day is the seventh day. To keep that day holy is God's forth commandment.
While this is between you and YHWH. Do you really think you should teach that YOU can make any day Holy? This is when I believe I have a right to teach the truth. I am very sorry if you see this as judging.
The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath.
God bless,
Ken
Hi Ken:You have given me your understanding on this and I understand why you believe what you do, and I have also given you my understanding of this, and I believe that I am obeying God's commandments, and if I am not, as you say, that is between me and my Lord.
This is where you are judging Ken:
Quote The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath The last part of this statement “and all of her daughters keep the false sabbath”. That is your opinion, and you may have an opinion, but you are not the judge.
My conscience is clear with what I am doing.
God Bless
Quote (david @ Oct. 03 2007,15:51) Quote Scriptures in the NEW TESTAMENT say to keep the commandments of God. Yes, 1 John 5:3 for example says that.
A commandment is “something that is commanded; a command.”
To command is to direct with authority, which of course, God has.
Anything God tells us is a command, for he is the ultimate authority.And through the Bible God tells us a lot.
One command he gave to the nation of Israel involved the Sabbath. The law of Moses consists of more than 600 individual laws, or commandments, including the 10 main ones.
The Law was not given to all humankind.
Jehovah made a covenant, or an agreement, with the descendants of Jacob, who became the nation of Israel. Jehovah gave his laws to this nation only.
The Bible makes this clear at Deuteronomy 5:1-3 and Psalm 147:19, 20.The apostle Paul asked the question: “Why, then, the Law?”
It is a good question. For what purpose did Jehovah give his law to Israel?
Paul answered: “To make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made . . . Consequently the Law has become our tutor [or, teacher] leading to Christ.” ” (Galatians 3:19-24)
The special purpose of the Law was to protect and guide the nation of Israel so that they might be ready to accept Christ when he arrived. The many sacrifices required by the Law reminded the Israelites that they were sinners who needed a Savior.—Hebrews 10:1-4.
When Christ came as that Savior and gave his perfect life as a sacrifice, what happened to the Law? It was removed. “We are no longer under a tutor,” Paul explained. (Galatians 3:25) The removal of the Law was a relief to the Israelites. It had shown them up as sinners, for all of them fell short of keeping that Law perfectly.
“Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law,” Paul said. (Galatians 3:10-14) So the Bible also says: “Christ is the end of the Law.”—Romans 10:4; 6:14.The Law actually served as a barrier or “wall” between the Israelites and other peoples who were not under it. By the sacrifice of his life, however, Christ “abolished . . . the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples [Israelite and non-Israelite] in union with himself into one new man.” (Ephesians 2:11-18)
Concerning the action that Jehovah God himself took toward the law of Moses, we read:
: “He kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees [including the Ten Commandments] and which was in opposition to us [because of condemning the Israelites as sinners]; and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.” ” (Colossians 2:13, 14) So, with the perfect sacrifice of Christ, the Law was brought to an end.. In his Sermon on the Mount Jesus quoted from the Ten Commandments as well as other parts of the Law and made no distinction between them. Jesus thus showed that the law of Moses was not divided into two parts.—Matthew 5:21-42.
“Now we have been discharged from the Law.” –Paul
Was it only the laws other than the Ten Commandments that the Jews were discharged from? No, for Paul goes on to say: “Really I would not have come to know sin if it had not been for the Law; and, for example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: ‘You must not covet.’” (Romans 7:6, 7; Exodus 20:17) Since “You must not covet” is the last one of the Ten Commandments, it follows that the Israelites were discharged from the Ten Commandments also.Does this mean that the law to keep a weekly Sabbath, which is the fourth of the Ten Commandments, was also removed? Yes, it does. What the Bible says at Galatians 4:8-11 and Colossians 2:16, 17 shows that Christians are not under God’s law given to the Israelites, with its requirement to keep the weekly Sabbath and to observe other special days in the year. That keeping a weekly Sabbath is not a Christian requirement can also be seen from Romans 14:5.
While laws can change, the principles behind them will always remain. The principle behind the sabbath is one that we should all consider. But we are no longer under that law, or in Paul's words, we have “been discharged from the law.”
david
DavidGood post.
I cant believe I just said that! Just kidding!
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 03 2007,16:00) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 03 2007,12:32) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 03 2007,11:53) Hi All: The 4th Commandment states:
Quote 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. The model week was for the Nation of Israel to work six consequtive days and rest on the Seventh day. The work week started on Sunday and ended on Saturday. In the United States, the work week starts on Monday and the seventh day is Sunday.
While it would be nice if we could all observe the Sabbath on Saturday, with the work week in society starting on Monday, I do not see that this would be possible unless Christians owned sufficient of the businesses to hire all of the Christians in our society. If we owned the businesses, we could start the work week on Sunday. Yes, you can rest on Saturday when you start your work week on Monday, but you would be working 5 days and then resting and then working on Sunday or resting Saturday and Sunday. That isn't the model that was set.
I still hold to my belief that it is not about a specific day, but the Seventh day is relative to when the work week begins. It is about the principle of resting on the seventh day and setting this day for Worship with fellow believers. The meaning of the day kept is the same.
I believe that we should keep all of the Commandments of our God, and I believe that I am striving to do this.
I commend all who are striving to obey the 4th Commandment and if your conscience says that you should observe it on Saturday because that is the day that was observed in the scriptures, than that is what you should do. I only ask that you not judge me for what I do.
Quote Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded F56 in his own mind God Bless
Scripture judges. I have not add nor taken away from scripture.There is only one day with a name in the whole word of God and that day is the seventh day. To keep that day holy is God's forth commandment.
While this is between you and YHWH. Do you really think you should teach that YOU can make any day Holy? This is when I believe I have a right to teach the truth. I am very sorry if you see this as judging.
The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath.
God bless,
Ken
Hi Ken:You have given me your understanding on this and I understand why you believe what you do, and I have also given you my understanding of this, and I believe that I am obeying God's commandments, and if I am not, as you say, that is between me and my Lord.
This is where you are judging Ken:
Quote The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath The last part of this statement “and all of her daughters keep the false sabbath”. That is your opinion, and you may have an opinion, but you are not the judge.
My conscience is clear with what I am doing.
God Bless
94I agree. To make such broad accusations against millions of true born again Christians is weak.
Some folks are just deep into their own dillusion, and rightly so, it was written that this would happen. They do not see their own nakedness. Just like “The Emperor's New Suit!”
david…..> was Paul talking about the ten commandments when he said by works of(the) law the definite article the, was added by translators in the original Greek it is not there, as well as in other places also with reguardes to (the Law). if you remove the definite article, it reads by works of law, another words the way law (forced compliance) works. And is not referencing the ten commandments at all, but how they were administered. and in another place Paul relates this as the adminstration of death. If you go through and remove those mistranslated articles you will see what i mean. Check it out and i would like to know what you think…..peace brother……gene
david …..> I also believe that the principles of the commandments will never be done away with to. It's what The Father writes on our hearts, for ever. peace again…..gene
Quote david…..> was Paul talking about the ten commandments when he said by works of(the) law the definite article the, was added by translators in the original Greek it is not there, as well as in other places also with reguardes to (the Law). if you remove the definite article, it reads by works of law, another words the way law (forced compliance) works. And is not referencing the ten commandments at all, but how they were administered. and in another place Paul relates this as the adminstration of death. If you go through and remove those mistranslated articles you will see what i mean. Check it out and i would like to know what you think…..peace brother……gene Hygeine.
Couple questions: Which scripture are you referring to when you say: “works of law.”
Also, I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying.
Christ “abolished . . . the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples [Israelite and non-Israelite] in union with himself into one new man.” (Ephesians 2:11-18)
What “law” do you think this refers to?
Hello
Ok. I listened to the second part of Mr Ronald Darts message and found out that now we are to not only keep the Sabbath but to keep the circumscision.
So I decided to see what else this guy believes and this is what I found.
Ronald L Dart is the former vice-president of the Church of God, International (CGI).
Here is a clip of information about him…
In October Ronald Dart, vice-president of the Church of God, International (CGI), resigns. The reasons for leaving were his ongoing heart problems and the growing upheaval in the church due to allegations that Garner Ted Armstrong sexually assaulted a masseuse in July. In November Ron sets up Christian Educational Ministries and soon begins a weekly radio program called Born To Win.
http://www.thejournal.org/archives/cgtimln3.htmlHe seems to be to be a nice Guy and good teacher so I am not going to say anything against his character, but I do disagree with his theology.
However I began to check out the Church of God International and found some interesting stuff here…
I want to point out this…
HEBREW CALENDAR
The Church of God International uses the Hebrew calendar to establish God’s holy days. The book, The Comprehensive Hebrew Calendar, by Arthur Spier, lists all the holy days of the Jewish calendar from 1899 to 2100 A.D., and thoroughly explains all the rules the Church has consistently used for these many years. The New Testament affirms that the Jews were entrusted with the “oracles of God.” We believe that those oracles included not only the Old Testament Scriptures, but the maintenance of the calendar given by God, with its rules and regulations. This calendar is designed to deal with the lunar-solar nature of the heavens and God’s holy days, and has been in existence since early Old Testament times. It seems logical that calculations developed as a reliable standard to be used when the new moon could not be observed. A special committee of the Sanhedrin, with its president as chairman, had the mandate to regulate and balance the solar with the lunar years. This calendar council calculated the beginning of the seasons on the basis of astronomical figures, which had been handed down as a tradition of old. In the fourth century, when oppression and persecution threatened the continued existence of the Sanhedrin, the patriarch Hillel II took an extraordinary step to preserve the unity of Israel by making public the system of calendar calculation. Hillel II formally sanctified all months in advance, and intercalated all future leap years until such time as a new, recognized Sanhedrin would be established.Then I am like OK, let me investigate about this Hebrew Calendar by Arthur Spier. What I found is that the there is no way the calendar can be accurate and that most of it is based on human tradition and rules and regulations many dating back to the modern day Pharisees and Saducees. and there customs.
It is amazing to me that those who insist on bringing the children of God into bondage by bringing us under the law can claim that if we don’t follow their commands then we are of the harlot and follow the traditions of men. When the very customs and laws they seek to keep according to the Hebrew calendar is inaccurate and many based on human tradition.
Then they accuse us of the Trinity being a tradition of men.
If we cant know the days and the times then how can we follow the law.
America as 94 has pointed out has 7 days that begin on Monday. If the Jewish Calendar isnt correct then how can you claim what is the seventh day or any day for that matter?
BTW does anyone know the exact year our Lord was born in?
W.J. That is really interesting, He came out of the World Wide Church of God that is why it sounded familiar when I listened to it. It is all about fear. I have to state that over and over again. That is what the Catholic used and that is what the ones that came out of that Church are using. They did not change their Theology at all. This is what I belief and still do :”THERE IS NO OTHER COMMANDMENT GREATER THEN THESE.
Jesus said to the Apostles;
John 13:34 “A NEW COMMANDMENT I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 15:12 “This is MY COMMANDMENT, that you love one another.”I wonder why Jesus said that twice?
1 John 4:7 “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.”
verse 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is Love.
verse 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has send His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
verse 10 In this is love, not that we love God, but that He loves us and send His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
verse 11 Beloved if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another
verse 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
verse 20 If someone said I love God, and hates his brother he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother who he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?Romans 13:10 “Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.”
This is what grace is all about, LOVE.
This is what the new law is, Love.
If we love God, we don't just love and honor Him one day of the week, we love and honor Him every day. God wants children that Love Him, not fear Him. If we do anything because we think we have to, we put ourselves under a law, not God; it is then not of faith but of fear.
The Apostles preached the gospel of love, not of law.
If we love God, we don't need for commandments to tell us how.
If we love our neighbor, we don't need six commandments to tell us how.
If we don't love from the heart, keeping the fourth or any of the other commandments only, wont save us.Love is what the new covenant law is built on. Jesus not only laid the foundation for the new law, Love
He is the foundation; for us and everyone to built up on it.
John 15:13 “Greater love has no one then this, then to lay down one”s life for his friends.”
But my belief goes much further then that. I belief that the Sermon on the Mount is so important for a Christian, and tell me who is teaching that on this website. Nobody except for my Husband and I. How so very sad to me. The one person that agreed with us was Nick and He said to be Baptized to be called a Christian besides in what we believed.
I am staying under the Blood of Christ were I belong if others want to keep the Sabbath that is up to them.
Romans 14: 5 ' One esteems one day anther esteems every day alike. I want and do keep every day to the Lord, and I have been criticised for that.
Peace and Love Mrs.WJ,
I thought you were above matters such as this. You don't like what a guy is teaching, so you delve into his background so you can find reasons to deny what he is saying. Does it really matter where he came from? I have been listening to Mr. Dart now for several months and he and I disagree on many matters, but I check him out on scripture and he is typically “spot on”.
I think you need to listen to the one part you speak of again about keeping circumcision. His implication was that modern American (his target audience) males are typically circumcised anyways. I was, and it had nothing to do with a religion. So he was not saying that circumcision was important as a matter of Christianity.
Let me ask you, where do you find in scripture that people worshiped on the Sunday (the first day of the week)? Gentiles or Jews? The closest you have is this:
Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
But what DO we see in scripture (ESV)?
Act 13:42 As they went out, the people begged that these things might be told them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:43 And after the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who, as they spoke with them, urged them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.
Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him.
Act 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'”
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.Act 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of Macedonia and a Roman colony. We remained in this city some days.
Act 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together.Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.”
Act 17:4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.Act 18:4 And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
As you can see, if Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, did not leave the Sabbath behind, what does that say? And as you can see, Gentiles gathered on the Sabbath as well. There is no place in scripture where Sunday worship is taught.
This is not a matter of who is right or wrong, just that there is no scriptural basis for the Sabbath being changed to Sunday. As Christians, we should look to the Bible to see what is says about our faith.
What I don't get is that there are some on here who leave Christmas and Easter behind, but don't think twice about Sunday being the “Christian Sabbath”. The first 2 are not taught in scripture and neither is Sunday Sabbath.
And this is not about the Law. Or salvation is not found in the Law, but we should seek out ways to please our God.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one–who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.LG & LP,
KevinQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 03 2007,16:27) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 03 2007,16:00) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 03 2007,12:32) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 03 2007,11:53) Hi All: The 4th Commandment states:
Quote 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. The model week was for the Nation of Israel to work six consequtive days and rest on the Seventh day. The work week started on Sunday and ended on Saturday. In the United States, the work week starts on Monday and the seventh day is Sunday.
While it would be nice if we could all observe the Sabbath on Saturday, with the work week in society starting on Monday, I do not see that this would be possible unless Christians owned sufficient of the businesses to hire all of the Christians in our society. If we owned the businesses, we could start the work week on Sunday. Yes, you can rest on Saturday when you start your work week on Monday, but you would be working 5 days and then resting and then working on Sunday or resting Saturday and Sunday. That isn't the model that was set.
I still hold to my belief that it is not about a specific day, but the Seventh day is relative to when the work week begins. It is about the principle of resting on the seventh day and setting this day for Worship with fellow believers. The meaning of the day kept is the same.
I believe that we should keep all of the Commandments of our God, and I believe that I am striving to do this.
I commend all who are striving to obey the 4th Commandment and if your conscience says that you should observe it on Saturday because that is the day that was observed in the scriptures, than that is what you should do. I only ask that you not judge me for what I do.
Quote Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded F56 in his own mind God Bless
Scripture judges. I have not add nor taken away from scripture.There is only one day with a name in the whole word of God and that day is the seventh day. To keep that day holy is God's forth commandment.
While this is between you and YHWH. Do you really think you should teach that YOU can make any day Holy? This is when I believe I have a right to teach the truth. I am very sorry if you see this as judging.
The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath.
God bless,
Ken
Hi Ken:You have given me your understanding on this and I understand why you believe what you do, and I have also given you my understanding of this, and I believe that I am obeying God's commandments, and if I am not, as you say, that is between me and my Lord.
This is where you are judging Ken:
Quote The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath The last part of this statement “and all of her daughters keep the false sabbath”. That is your opinion, and you may have an opinion, but you are not the judge.
My conscience is clear with what I am doing.
God Bless
94I agree. To make such broad accusations against millions of true born again Christians is weak.
Well their you have it WJ agress with Sunday.Do the daughters of the RCC keep the Seventh day Sabbath?
What do you think makes the RCC mother of harlots?
Did the RCC change the forth commandment so that people would NOT keep the true Sabbath? Dan 7:25
Is the truth judging?
Gess if the truth is judging then no one would be able to speak. Besides where is Sunday kept in the word of God?
Scripture says that the Seventh Day is God's Sabbath.
Again find the word Sunday for me in the Word of God.
Only one day has the name Sabbath.
But I am sorry that you “think” I'm judging.
As far as “the millions” of Christians:
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Does the law save, NO! That's why those in the RCC are Christ's people.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
If one wants to keep the feasts days then GREAT, FINE. It is certainly better than keeping man's holIdays. Rom. 14:5
The Sabbath is part of the Ten commandments the Ten commandments are contained in the Two greatest Commandments that Jesus gave.
Mat 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”If you love the Lord your God with all your heart then you will keep HIS Commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have he
ard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
Heb 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,God Bless,
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 04 2007,01:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 03 2007,16:27) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 03 2007,16:00) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 03 2007,12:32) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 03 2007,11:53) Hi All: The 4th Commandment states:
Quote 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. The model week was for the Nation of Israel to work six consequtive days and rest on the Seventh day. The work week started on Sunday and ended on Saturday. In the United States, the work week starts on Monday and the seventh day is Sunday.
While it would be nice if we could all observe the Sabbath on Saturday, with the work week in society starting on Monday, I do not see that this would be possible unless Christians owned sufficient of the businesses to hire all of the Christians in our society. If we owned the businesses, we could start the work week on Sunday. Yes, you can rest on Saturday when you start your work week on Monday, but you would be working 5 days and then resting and then working on Sunday or resting Saturday and Sunday. That isn't the model that was set.
I still hold to my belief that it is not about a specific day, but the Seventh day is relative to when the work week begins. It is about the principle of resting on the seventh day and setting this day for Worship with fellow believers. The meaning of the day kept is the same.
I believe that we should keep all of the Commandments of our God, and I believe that I am striving to do this.
I commend all who are striving to obey the 4th Commandment and if your conscience says that you should observe it on Saturday because that is the day that was observed in the scriptures, than that is what you should do. I only ask that you not judge me for what I do.
Quote Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded F56 in his own mind God Bless
Scripture judges. I have not add nor taken away from scripture.There is only one day with a name in the whole word of God and that day is the seventh day. To keep that day holy is God's forth commandment.
While this is between you and YHWH. Do you really think you should teach that YOU can make any day Holy? This is when I believe I have a right to teach the truth. I am very sorry if you see this as judging.
The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath.
God bless,
Ken
Hi Ken:You have given me your understanding on this and I understand why you believe what you do, and I have also given you my understanding of this, and I believe that I am obeying God's commandments, and if I am not, as you say, that is between me and my Lord.
This is where you are judging Ken:
Quote The RCC changed the Sabbath day to the first day and all of her daughters keep her false sabbath The last part of this statement “and all of her daughters keep the false sabbath”. That is your opinion, and you may have an opinion, but you are not the judge.
My conscience is clear with what I am doing.
God Bless
94I agree. To make such broad accusations against millions of true born again Christians is weak.
Well their you have it WJ agress with Sunday.Do the daughters of the RCC keep the Seventh day Sabbath?
What do you think makes the RCC mother of harlots?
Did the RCC change the forth commandment so that people would NOT keep the true Sabbath? Dan 7:25
Is the truth judging?
Gess if the truth is judging then no one would be able to speak. Besides where is Sunday kept in the word of God?
Scripture says that the Seventh Day is God's Sabbath.
Again find the word Sunday for me in the Word of God.
Only one day has the name Sabbath.
But I am sorry that you “think” I'm judging.
As far as “the millions” of Christians:
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Does the law save, NO! That's why those in the RCC are Christ's people.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
If one wants to keep the feasts days then GREAT, FINE. It is certainly better than keeping man's holIdays. Rom. 14:5
The Sabbath is part of the Ten commandments the Ten commandments are contained in the Two greatest Commandments that Jesus gave.
Mat 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”If you love the Lord your God with all your heart then you will keep HIS Commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of
God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
Heb 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,God Bless,
Ken
Hi Ken:WJ agreed with me that you were judging. He did not say anything about Sunday.
If you have an opinion that Sunday is the wrong day for a person to observe the Sabbath then state it as an opinion and not in a way that indicates that you are the final authority on the matter which you are not. In other words, you are not the judge.
God Bless
WJ,
Just listened to the rest of the 3rd installment on the Sabbath (the last link I provided) and the last few minutes are very enlightening. It speaks of the church in Rome wanting to be so far removed from Judaism that they moved the day of worship to Sunday to separate themselves from Jews. But Mr. Dart also talks about how much of Christianity outside of Rome continued to observe Saturday as the Sabbath for centuries.
Finally, Mr. Dart speaks of circumcision for Christian Jews, not Gentiles. Circumcision is apparently still valid for Jews whether they are Christian or not. It is their “identification” as a Jew. In Acts 15, Paul and Barnabas were meeting with the other apostles in Jerusalem to discuss the matter of Christian Jews telling Gentiles that they needed to be circumsized to be saved. Paul and Barnabas disagreed because they knew that circumcision has nothing to do with salvation but it was a matter of Jewish identity. And it is obvious that Paul still felt circumcision was necessary for Christian Jews because in the very next chapter he circumcises Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman and Greek man. So the issue here was that circumcision was not necessary for salvation but was still a part of Jewish covenant. Therefore, Paul pretty much says that the old covenant was not eliminated for the Jews! But he does support that the New Covenant is a change in matters such as atonement and the last High Priest, Yeshua.
LG & LP,
KevinQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 03 2007,02:08) America as 94 has pointed out has 7 days that begin on Monday. If the Jewish Calendar isnt correct then how can you claim what is the seventh day or any day for that matter?
BTW, I know of no single calendar where the week starts on Monday. Now, most work weeks start on Monday, but that is not the same as a calendar .Quote If you have an opinion that Sunday is the wrong day for a person to observe the Sabbath then state it as an opinion and not in a way that indicates that you are the final authority on the matter which you are not. In other words, you are not the judge. I have NO authority 94. I know NO Man has the authority to make a day HOLY, do you?
Where in Scripture is word SUNDAY, or any of the other days of the week. Again and again and again, Only the Seventh Day has a name Sabbath.
In your “opinion”. This is NOT my opinion this is scripture. Even you admit that the Seventh day is the day YHWH kept.
You and the church you attend keep the first day of the Roman Catholic Church who IS the Harlot. Sorry that's the facts. The facts are that the RCC changed the Sabbath day. And all of her “daughters” keep her false sabbath.
It is Not my opinion 94, it is scripture that the Seventh day IS the Sabbath and NO other day is God's Sabbath. Sunday is your and the RCC and her daughters sabbath.
If you or any one teach that you can keep any day you want then I will give the scriptures that say which day is the Sabbath.
Say what you want about me. But it is God's Word that is truth.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
If we can just do what we want then why do we have the Word?
Scripture states that the seventh day is the Sabbath.
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 04 2007,02:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 03 2007,02:08) America as 94 has pointed out has 7 days that begin on Monday. If the Jewish Calendar isnt correct then how can you claim what is the seventh day or any day for that matter?
BTW, I know of no single calendar where the week starts on Monday. Now, most work weeks start on Monday, but that is not the same as a calendar .
Hi KJ:First, you are right that you will not find those in the scriptures observing Sunday as the Sabbath because their work week started on Sunday and the seventh day was Saturday.
The 4th commandment states “six days shall thy labour and do all thy work but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God…”.
And so, if the work week starts on Monday in the society that I live, and it does, whether or not the calendar coincides with it being the first day of the week or not that is not the issue, I am obeying the 4th commandment if I rest and worship on Sunday the seventh day of the work week. That is the model that God established and that is his commandment.
It is the principle that is involved here that is important. God made all of our days. The fact that one in covenant with God sets it aside for a special purpose is what makes it special otherwise all days are the same.
As I said before, it would be nice if all of us could keep the Sabbath day on Saturday so that arguements such as this would not arise and cause divisions in the church. But that would mean that we would have to own our own businesses and employ all the Christians in our society so that we could began our work week on Sunday, and so that we would not have to be dependant for employment on those employers who are not Christians in our society.
God Bless
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