Sabbath

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 02 2007,19:43)

The 10 Commandments were written in stone (not to ever be changed). That is what is meant by “written in stone.”

But they were changed, weren't they? Jesus changed the regulations of the Sabbath Day. He also changed the qualifications for adultery and so on. Some Commandments, therefore, became “spiritual” while other's remained in stone. For instance, you cannot make not stealing “spiritual”.

Why is this? Why are some changed while other's remain the same?

The OT and the 10 Commandments give regulations to the Sabbath (the Seventh Day and other rules for work, meal prep, and so on).
The NT changes the regulations for the Sabbath (you can work, heal and so on).

If the regulations are changed and become spiritual, why does the exact day have to be inforced?
If you want to follow the 10 Commandments……then you would have to include all the requirments for the Sabbath as well as keeping it on the correct day. Right?

You can do good on the Sabbath. You are NOT to do your regular work duties as during the week. The Day is “set apart” for your Father. The Holy Spirit guides you on the Sabbath as what you can do. It's Quility time with DAD!

Can you make a sandwich on the Sabbath? I don't know “ask the SPIRIT”?

We have the Holy Spirit to guide us so hear what the Spirit says.

Just as Jesus explained that the seventh commandment (adultery) was made spiritual so is the forth. BECAUSE we have God's Spirit.

If you walk in the Spirit all during the week are you going to stop on the Sabbath?

Again you don't do the things you do during the week SO you are drawing “Closer” to the Father on the Sabbath day AND as Mr. Dart said you are proclaiming to the world that YHWH is your God.

If you include Col. 2:14:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The question is verse 16 speaking of verse 14?

This I know their is a separation of the law. Even Laurel agrees with that. God did not write all the law in stone! He only wrote the Ten Commandments in stone. He gave Moses the rest of the law to write in a book and placed the book on the side of the ark, NOT inside the ark.

Deu 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

God bless all,

Ken

October 2, 2007 at 1:55 pm#67300

Participant

Keyon Where did you get scripture out? You are so young and you could do so much good especially on Saturdayw since most people do not work and the oppertunity is so much greater of reaching them.

WHY CAN'T YOU DO ME A FAVOR AND STUDY ALL OF THE COVENANTS? yOU WANTED ME TO LOOK AT THE TAPES, I AM SURE YOU DID'T PUT IT THERE FOR KEN OR WHO ALREADY BELIEVES IN THE Sabbth.
what makes me wonder why there is so much emphazes being put on the Sabbath like the Scribes and Pharosees did. And why does scriptures say the road is steep and FEW WILL FIND IT. ARE THOSE FEW THAT KEEP EITHER THE SABBATH OR SUNDAYS. STRESSING EITHER ONE OUT IS AGAINST WHAT jESUS TAUGHT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

October 2, 2007 at 1:56 pm#67301

Participant

All right, just finished listening to this last one. A local radio station carries the broadcast. There are two things that occured to me: that the trinity and Sunday worship kind of go hand-in-hand. What I mean by this is that neither is taught in scripture. And there is more….

Ronald Dart stated that, to the Jew and early Christians who were Jews, changing the day of worship would be like changing Gods. As the verse (Ex 31:13) states above, the Sabbath was a special day between Israel and their God. So to change the day of worship without good cause — and Yeshua nor his disciples, including Paul, never gave any — would be like changing Gods. And guess what? The triune God IS a different God than the Jews knew, including the early Christian Jews. Thus, it seems natural that changing the day of worship is appropriate for a religion that worshiped a different God than the Jews and early Christians worshiped.

Now, I'm not about to run out and proclaim this on the hilltops and streetcorners, but I think this is something to consider. If we start putting pieces together, we start realizing that somewhere along the line, the early Christian faith with Jewish roots was hijacked and replaced by a religion with more pagan roots. There was still someone named Jesus and he still had a Father, but how many Christians today know of YHWH of the OT? All they know is LORD.

This makes sense too. Somewhere in the history of the Septuagint (the OT in Greek), YHWH was removed and replaced with “kurios” (or “kyrios”), which means “Lord”. That is because Jews started to spurn the Septuagint and returned to the Masoretic (the OT in Hebrew). It is thought that the ones who replaced YHWH in the Septuagint were early Gentile Christians, and they did this because they did not understand the significance of YHWH.

Now fastforward through the years. YHWH is replaced with “kurios”, Yeshua is called “kyrios” in the NT, and most modern Bibles have LORD instead of YHWH, Yahweh, or even Jehovah…I think you can see what is going on here. Couple this with Gentile Christians replacing the Sabbath with Sunday worship — something never prescribed anywhere in NT writings — and you can get an idea where Christians started to move away from the God of Israel and to a new God with pagan characteristics.

This is all food for thought. Remember that the Jews knew of the Sabbath since the time of Moses, and still observe it today. The early Christians of the NT — both Jews and Gentiles alike — worshiped on the Sabbath. Somewhere, someone else changed the day of worship.

Think of this verse:

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day–

Now, many will use this verse to defend worship on Sunday. Ken, unfortunately, points to the food, drink, and festival aspects and says this means an annual Sabbath, but the word “or” is repeated here to separate them. Actually, the context of this verse is found in the balance of the chapter, and it is against not Jews who were persecuting the Colossians, but certain others who believed in worship of angels, and abstaining from certain things to be pure. These people were of a pagan religion and they were giving the new Christians in Colossae a hard time about observing Jewish customs (found in the OT, not in oral traditions). Paul was telling them that they should not be judged by these people but to continue as they felt lead!

Anyway, just some food for thought in your studies.

October 2, 2007 at 1:58 pm#67302

Participant

Quote

If you think about (lust) stealing then you are guility of stealing and need to repent. That is what makes it spiritual.

God bless Mandy,

Ken

October 2, 2007 at 2:05 pm#67303

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 03 2007,01:56)

Think of this verse:

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day–

Anyway, just some food for thought in your studies.

Ok kejonn what was nailed to the cross in verse 14? And why wasn't Moses' law written in stone and placed inside the ark with God's law?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

“Sabbath DayS” not day. Keeping this Sabbath in context with the moons, drink, etc then this Sabbath are annual Sabbaths of the feasts days.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

All I know is that we are to keep the seventh day. If anyone wants to keep the feasts days that's fine with me. Rom. 14:5

October 2, 2007 at 2:11 pm#67304

Participant

Hey kejonn I have to go but it's nice that you are beginning to SEE the Sabbath

Be back latter. God bless,

Ken

October 2, 2007 at 2:15 pm#67305

Participant

Quote (IM4Truth @ Oct. 02 2007,08:55)

Keyon Where did you get scripture out? You are so young and you could do so much good especially on Saturdayw since most people do not work and the oppertunity is so much greater of reaching them.

Mrs.,

I am in the process of studying the Torah (first five books of the Bible). This is where you will find the many covenants made to the Israelites before the new covenant.

What does the opening phrase “Where did you get scripture out” mean? If you mean which translation, I default to the NASB. Sorry if that is not clear.

Actually you are only partially right about the emphasis by the scribes and Pharisees on the Sabbath. Yeshua never failed to observe the Sabbath, he just failed to observe it in the manner in which the oral traditions had come about. The oral traditions of the Jews were finally put to paper around 200 AD, and it is called the Talmud. But back in the days of Yeshua, the Jewish leaders were enforcing God's Law in their own manner, based on the oral traditions they had developed. It is much like some of the many traditions you'll find in various churches and denominations that are not based in scripture but on the ideals of men.

For instance, there is really nothing in God's Law on the Sabbath against the disciples picking grain. What was prohibited was gathering food for storage on the Sabbath. The disciples were only getting what was necessary to eat at the moment, not gathering for storage. So the Jews were going after Yeshua for not observing the Sabbath in their way, not God's way.

I know you emphasize the greatest commandments that Yeshua brought forth, and they are indeed the basis of all others, but don't forget the largest one: to love God with all of your heart, soul, and might. That is why there IS some validity to studying exactly what the Sabbath is, because it is something that God did for man. And if the Jews and early Christians all worshiped on Sabbath, they had a good reason to do so.

And finally, stressing the Sabbath is NOT against what Yeshua taught. Judging others in the way they observe it is what he taught. The Sabbath should be observed according to both the Spirit AND scripture. The Pharisees were following neither: they were judging the manner in which Yeshua observed the Sabbath according to their oral traditions that fell outside of the scriptures.

October 2, 2007 at 2:30 pm#67306

Participant

Ken,

I really think the emphasis for Col 2:16 is ANY Sabbath day. I know where you are coming from, but there are separations of the ideas by “or”. The new converts at Colossae had likely been observing Jewish holidays and other things, and the locals were giving them a hard time for doing so. I personally see nothing wrong with observing ANY Jewish holiday, and the series that Ronald dart has done on “Christian Holidays” has been teaching me that. He never says that they are necessary, but he does encourage us to study them and realize that they are all valid because they point to the Messiah.

So basically Paul was saying “don't let the pagans judge you for observing these things, be led by the Spirit”. Isn't that what is important?

As far as what was nailed to the cross, it was the “certificate of debt”. Therefore, there is no longer a need for sacrifice, and no need for the scapegoat. Yeshua fulfilled that once and for all.

October 2, 2007 at 2:34 pm#67307

Participant

Keyonn No matter what you say it is still the old Covenant that God made with Israel. With us He made a New Covenant with all Christians there are Jewish Christians too. And he gave us the Greatest Commandments of all. ” Love God with all of your Heart and your Neighbor as thyself.” So what are We to keep? The old and what scriptures says in Galatians if you want to keep that Law you have to keep the whole Law, not just part of it. Or the New? I am going with the New that is how convinced I am of things. My Husband and I have 12 years of studies behind our belt on this one. We both agree on this.
I have all the prove on the Covenant Tread if you like to know. Do me a favor for yourself, not for me. and do a quick study on the Covenant.

Peace and Love Mrs.:D

October 2, 2007 at 5:04 pm#67315

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Hello!

I listened to the whole thing.

I don’t buy it. The following scriptures also say we are to keep them “throughout our generations”.

Exod 12:13
And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye [are]: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy [you], when I smite the land of Egypt.
14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Exod 29:42
This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations [at] the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee.

Exod 30:8
And when Aaron lighteth the lamps at even, he shall burn incense upon it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations[/u][/b]

Exod 30:10
And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it [is] most holy unto the LORD.

Exod 30:31
And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations

Exod 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Lev 10:9
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations

Lev 23 :14
And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Num 10:8
And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations

Num 18:23
But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.

Num 35:29
So these [things] shall be for a statute of judgment unto you throughout your generationsin all your dwellings.

Lev 3:17
It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.

Mr Dart dosnt stop at the Sabbath but also says we need to Keep the feast. As I listened I begin to wonder what else I needed to do. Next thing you know we will need to offer blood sacrifices.

Rom 3:
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Gal 2:16
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[17] But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[18] For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

[21] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Heb 4:1
Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also;but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Rom 14:5 NASB
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

Why didnt Paul mention the Sabbath here?

Paul goes on to say…

Rom 14:13
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this–not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.

Rom 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.

Paul says that no man shall be justified by the keeping of the Law. Now if this is true and I am saved by grace, then why would I seek to please God in any other way?

Does this give us a license to sin, absolutely not. But we walk and live by faith and our life is hid with Christ in God and the life we now live we live by the faith of God.

The Kingdom of God is righteousness peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.

Hebrews says that we who have believed have entered into that rest.

In 27 books of the New Testament, the New Covenant, there no teaching of the “keeping of the Sabbat
h” Neither is the term “Ten commandments” mentioned.

Jesus gave us the two greatest commandments of all and said all the Law and the prophets hang on these two.

The sermon on the mount is one of the greatest teachings in the scriptures concerning the New Covenant and the Kingdom of God. Jesus never mentions the Sabbath. But brings us a higher law. It’s the Law of the Spirit.

The Kingdom of God is without outward observation.

Lk 17:20
Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
21 nor will they say, 'Look, here {it is!}' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Mr Dart says the Sabbath is a sign.

Jesus said the Kingdom of God is without an outward sign. The last time I looked the 7th day Sabbath is an outward observance of the Law and not the inward observance of the Spirit of life.

When Jesus died on the cross he said “It is finished”.

The Old fulfilled in the New.

Heb 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Again…

Rom 14:5 NASB
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Heb 4:3
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

IMHO

October 2, 2007 at 5:13 pm#67316

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

kejonn

You say…

Quote

So we have millions of born again believers who have changed Gods and are lost because they dont observe the Sabbath?

Rom 14:5 NASB
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

October 2, 2007 at 6:09 pm#67325

Participant

W.J. Did you take my script from the Covenants and put it here? It almost sounds like it. Look!

Peace and Love Mrs.:D

October 2, 2007 at 7:16 pm#67328

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 03 2007,05:13)

kejonn

You say…

Quote

So we have millions of born again believers who have changed Gods and are lost because they dont observe the Sabbath?

Rom 14:5 NASB
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Why was the Sabbath changed to the first day of the week?

What day did Paul teach the gentiles on?

From the beginning the Sabbath was there to rest and worship NOT SUNDAY!

2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

WJ what would be wrong with keeping the forth commandment?

If we love God we DON'Tkeep His commandments?

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The RCC (of course that is what you are a Catholic because you keep Catholic doctrines) by orders of her master SATAN changed the Sabbath.

WHY WJ?

The many, here we go with the “many” it is the many that are on the wide path to destruction. Straight and narrow is the path to eternal life and few are they that find it.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

No one can keep every day as the Sabbath if you did then you would do nothing else. You couldn't work, or do any of your regular duties. Yes the Spirit is in you but you cannot “devote” all the time as you can on the Sabbath. During the week you have to devote some time to whatever it is you do in this world. On the Sabbath the world does not exist. Only God exist and all of you for HIM.

When you keep the sabbath you are telling the world that YHWH is your Creator and God. Is their something wrong with that? You separate yourself from the rest of the world. Is there something wrong with that?

If I keep the forth commandment what wrong am I doing?

If I don't keep the forth commandment then:

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

I may have to buy knee pads

God bless,

Ken

October 2, 2007 at 7:30 pm#67330

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (IM4Truth @ Oct. 03 2007,06:09)

W.J. Did you take my script from the Covenants and put it here? It almost sounds like it. Look!

Peace and Love Mrs.:D

Im4truth

No. Sorry. I spent 3 hours this morning researching and writing it.

Hope it helps!

Rom 8:1 NASB
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

To walk in the Spirit is to bear the fruit of the Spirit.

Gal 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Loving our neighbor does not mean keeping the physical 7th day Sabbath.

The fruit of the Spirit is…

Gal. 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

It dosnt say the fruit of the Spirit is physically “Keeping the 7th day Sabbath”.

Eph 5:9
(For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Those who walk in the Spirit will not break the commandments, “Thou shalt not kill” Etc, and because they walk in the Spirit means they bear the fruit of the Spirit and find their “rest” in him because they have ceased from their own labours, the works of the flesh!

October 2, 2007 at 7:48 pm#67336

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 02 2007,12:13)

kejonn

You say…

Quote

So we have millions of born again believers who have changed Gods and are lost because they dont observe the Sabbath?

Rom 14:5 NASB
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

WJ,

Nope, you know I don't believe that. I do believe that there is some correlation however. Here's how it goes — two things that Christianity changed from the Jewish faith that it came from: the day of worship and the nature of their God. The Jews knew only one God, YHWH. Even before the Messiah came, they never though of the Holy Spirit as a “person” of God, so that takes away one argument. And Christianity had changed the day of worship that they had observed for thousands of years. Can you show me one instance of worshiping on Sunday in the Bible?

As I stated in the trinity thread, I am looking into the roots of Christianity. And to find those roots, I have to study the religion it came from. I can't study the roots by looking at what Gentile believers did because the Messiah was Jewish, and his foundation was of the Jewish faith. The OT points to him.

As to those other verses, I don't disagree. I was fully convinced in my own mind that Sunday was good enough (for me), but I no longer am. But that is between me and God and has nothing to do with your relationship. It is very personal.

You know I don't espouse calling mainline Christianity “the harlot” or any other such. I do think that we can all learn more though, and find that it is important to be obedient to what we've learned. Why else would God reveal these things to us?

So relax brother. I don't view you any lesser than me in any aspect whatsoever. If I could know more about your life, I'm sure I could find many areas I would admire and wish I was more like. But in the end, I have only one role model: Christ. Thus, I'm doing what I can to know him more and more every day.

LG & LP,
Kevin

October 2, 2007 at 8:27 pm#67338

Participant

Keyonn W.J. did not say in this post that He worshipped on the Sunday did He? He is quoting Romans 14:5 and Hebrew 4:3 and those scriptures have nothing to do with just worshipping on Sunday. I use that scripture to prove what I belief to be true. So my Question to you is why would you not belief in these scriptures? What do they mean to you?

Peace and Love Mrs.

October 2, 2007 at 8:47 pm#67340

Participant

MrsIM,

Well, WJ told me what denomination he was at one time and I'm fairly certain they worship corporately on Sundays.

In any case, here are the verses you asked about:

Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

The “days” here have nothing to do with the Sabbath in my opinion. This has more to do with feast days and other various ceremonial observances. Also he mentions what people eat and this is largely a kosher thing. Some people thought that eating only certain things was righteous, but Peter was shown differently. In any case, Paul was saying to be careful that we do not offend others by judging them for what they observe. If they feel they are doing it for God, then who are we to tell them otherwise? Unless of course we can show where they are in error.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

I still believe this refers to the eternal rest offered by faith in Christ. Yet that gives us no “out” for not seeking to observe the Sabbath. This verse says nothing about setting aside a separate day for worship than that which has been established by YHWH for thousands of years. It is a hard thing to do because 99% of Christianity worships on Sunday, but that does not mean it can't be done.

Still, it is up to you to decide. God works as He will in your life and He has to show you. I am only revealing what He is showing me for my life, and as I stated, my relationship with Him is between Him and I. In the end, I do have to fall back and look at scripture and I do not see a single occasion of the day of worship being changed. That means that man changed it later. So as I seek to follow Him, the best I can do is go to His letters to me, written in the Bible.

PS, by the way it is Kejonn, with a “J”, not “Y”. No biggie, just wanted to point it out :;): . You can call me KJ or Kevin (real name), any will do.

October 2, 2007 at 8:58 pm#67343

GeneBalthrop

Participant

kejonn ….> you brought out in one of your posts that christanity changed GOD's as well as the day of worship . I believe that also, now with that in mind especially the change of God's read 2 Thes 2, I believe this changing of God's constitutes The Man Of Sin. it seams to fit, read it and see what you think…….peace to you…..gene

October 2, 2007 at 11:53 pm#67356

942767

Participant

Hi All:

The 4th Commandment states:

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12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

The model week was for the Nation of Israel to work six consequtive days and rest on the Seventh day. The work week started on Sunday and ended on Saturday. In the United States, the work week starts on Monday and the seventh day is Sunday.

While it would be nice if we could all observe the Sabbath on Saturday, with the work week in society starting on Monday, I do not see that this would be possible unless Christians owned sufficient of the businesses to hire all of the Christians in our society. If we owned the businesses, we could start the work week on Sunday. Yes, you can rest on Saturday when you start your work week on Monday, but you would be working 5 days and then resting and then working on Sunday or resting Saturday and Sunday. That isn't the model that was set.

I still hold to my belief that it is not about a specific day, but the Seventh day is relative to when the work week begins. It is about the principle of resting on the seventh day and setting this day for Worship with fellow believers. The meaning of the day kept is the same.

I believe that we should keep all of the Commandments of our God, and I believe that I am striving to do this.

I commend all who are striving to obey the 4th Commandment and if your conscience says that you should observe it on Saturday because that is the day that was observed in the scriptures, than that is what you should do. I only ask that you not judge me for what I do.

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Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded F56 in his own mind

God Bless

October 3, 2007 at 12:25 am#67358