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Est 1:19 If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him, and let it be written among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, that it be not altered, That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.
Using Scripture, it is possible that YHWH put the laws in writing for this reason, “So that they could not be altered.”
Before they were written with His own finger, men were altering His laws.
In the last days, the ark will be revealed, His laws will be made known. Then we will be made to choose, and we will be sealed with His mark or the mark of the beast, for those who have not been sealed already.
“it is possible that YHWH put the laws in writing for this reason”
Possible or assume what is the difference?
Kejonn wants scriptural proff that the Commandments, laws, and statues given to Abraham are the same Moses gave.
There is no other commandments, laws , or statues that I know of so I “assume” that they were the same commandments, laws, and statues. What else can we believe! We can only believe what we are given.
It's just a never ending quest to NOT keep the Sabbath.
Well I will keep my Father's commandments.
You ever wonder why no one has a problem with keeping all the other commandments BUT the forth. If I were not keeping the Sabbath I would be wondering Why? There are 10 commandments I have no problem BUT with the one that says to remember.
WHY?
This is the commandment Satan goes after. This is the commandment that says YHWH is your Creator and God.
Why was the Sabbath day changed by Satan? Why is the first day the Harlot's sabbath?
Why all the attacks on His Sabbath?
Would it be different if everyone kept the forth but kept breaking a different commandment?
Why is it you “know not to murder” but you don't know to keep His Sabbath? Thus “REMEMBER” to keep His Sabbath.
The Sabbath is something you Remember because YOU WANT to keep His Commandments not because it is written on your heart like the other nine.
I believe it's going the extra mile!!!
Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;
Rev 3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'”
IHN&L Why Love because I care. I want everyone to understand what is at stake.
“The Kingdom of heaven is at hand”
Their are saints and then their will be “people” of the saints.
Some will rule and others will not. They will be the least in the kingdom of Heaven.
Am I to rule with my LORD I pray so. I run the race to win not just to finish. But no one knows we just run the race to win.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
What will the last day saints be doing?
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Those doing the commandments “will have a right to ENTER the city”. Will everyone rule with the King of Kings?
The Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand, get it?
IHN& Love,
Ken
Ken,
In Heaven what is greater a cow or a cheesburger?
What is greater a cheese burger or a cow pie?
What is greater a worm or dirt?
I'm pretty sure there will be dirt on the new earth or how else would the fruit trees grow?Laurel
Ken,
Hebrews 4:9 and verses that help with context (ESV):
Heb 4:1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
Heb 4:2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”
Heb 4:5 And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”
Heb 4:6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
Heb 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
Heb 4:10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.Is there anything in this that suggests we enter then leave? The Sabbath day of each week is one day. thus we enter then leave. But the context of this passage say NOTHING of leaving. So why can you (or wikipedia
) expect that this passage supports Saturday Sabbath? Whne we enter our rest — Yeshua — it is an eternal even. We don't leave. That is why you don't see any “leaving” in this passage. Also, stop looking only at one verse because context is important.Heb 3:19 So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.
Now, what belief is emphasized again and again in the NT? In the Son as Savior, Lord, and Messiah! Now, look ahead:
Heb 4:2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.“For we who have believed enter that rest”! Don't ever forget that the NT was a new covenant!
Try and read the whole thing it's Not that long.
Sabbath in Christianity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaWhile a clear mandate is given for the Sabbath in Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the closest passage to a command for Sabbath-keeping in the New Testament is found in Hebrews 4:9, which describes the Sabbath not as a day, but instead as a state of being, the context and grammar of the passage indicate otherwise. In that passage is found the word “sabbatismos.” The Authorized Version (King James Version of 1611) and New King James Version and several others render that word as “rest.” The American Standard Version of 1901, New American Standard Bible 1995 Updated Edition and several other translations somewhat more correctly render that word as “Sabbath rest.” A few, such as the Darby translation, transliterate the word as “Sabbatism.” However, its literal translation is “Sabbath observance,” and The Scriptures, translated by The Institute For Scripture Research, render it as such, while The Bible in Basic English gives the equally literal “Sabbath keeping.” In regard to taking Sabbatismos literally, Professor Andrew T. Lincoln, on page 213 in his symposium From Sabbath to Lord's Day, states “The use of sabbatismos elsewhere in extant Greek literature gives an indication of its more exact shade of meaning. It is used in Plutarch, De Superstitione 3 (Moralia166A) of Sabbath observance. There are also four occurrences in post canonical literature that are independent of Hebrews 4:9. They are Justin, Dialogue with Trypho 23:3; Epiphanius, Adversus Haereses 30:2:2; Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1; Apostolic Constitutions 2:36:2. In each of these places the term denotes the observance or celebration of the Sabbath. This usage corresponds to the Septuagint usage of the cognate verb sabbatizo (cf. Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32; 26:34; 2 Chron. 36:21
Thus the writer to the Hebrews is saying that since the time of Joshua an observance of the Sabbath rest has been outstanding.” The literal translation then of Hebrews 4:9 is “Therefore a Sabbath observance has been left behind for the people of God.” Further, the internal evidence of the preceding verses would indicate that the Sabbath observance mentioned in this verse is indeed the seventh day Sabbath and not the Lord's Day Sabbath. In verse 8, the Hebrew writer states, “For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have afterward spoken of another day.” On first glance in our English translations, that word “another” would give the appearance of a different day. However, in the Greek, there are two words that mean “another”. “Heteros” means “another of a different kind”, while “allos” means “another of the same kind”. The word used in Hebrews 4:8 is “allos”, indicating a Sabbath day of the same kind as referred to in Hebrews 4:8-5, that is, the seventh-day Sabbath. In verse 7, the Hebrews writer uses the term “certain day”. The Greek word for “certain” is “tis”. It is clearly referencing a specific day, and not the general thought of an eternal rest. The force of Hebrews 3:11-4:11 then seems to be saying that because Christians look toward the eternal rest of heaven, the type or shadow of the earthly Sabbath rest still remains, or is “left behind”, literally, for Christians to observe.
Ken,
OK, wikipedia forms your belief. Every other commentator I've seen disagree with wikipedia. Here are the verses that hints strongly at the real context.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”Note that God's works are finished and have been since the foundation of the world. Then it goes on to speak of the rest. Thus, eternal rest from works. I don't know that you can get much plainer than that.
Heb 4:10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
Put all three of these verses together: God's works have been finished since the foundation of the world, he rested after the 6 days of creation, and we will rest from our works as God did. Can you show me where those verses say God started his works back up? No, according to the writer, His works have been finished since the foundation of the world!
But I'm sure you'll post the wikipedia interpretation again…
To others,
Just wanted you to know what I believe regarding the Sabbath. I believe that it is still valid and was not done away with, and that it is indeed the seventh day. However, I'm still studying how to observe it because it is quite obvious that you can do so with the wrong spirit. It is not just about resting as Yeshua showed. Do we ever see an example of Yeshua resting on the Sabbath? No, he was always out doing his Father's business. And I think that as our example, that is what the Sabbath is all about: God's business.
Why does scripture say Sabbath was made for man? Because we do need time to wholly dedicate ourselves to God. I think we can all see that in relation the first ones the Sabbath was commanded to. The children of Israel who were in Egypt worked all the time under bondage so they never had a time to focus on God. The world can do the same thing to us. Most of us have jobs and other activities that keep our focus off of God — though we may be keeping Him in our hearts — but the Sabbath is a time to put those things aside and focus on doing the works of God.
Did I say “do the works of God”? That would entail working! But it is not the physical labor that we have the other 6 days. That can be seen in Hebrews 4:3-4
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”Now look at v3. What “works” have been finished from the foundation of the world? Creation! But do you think God is actually “resting” now? No, he is still working out our salvation. Thus, I think the example here is that we need to focus on working in different manner on the Sabbath: that is, “work” to become closer to God. Our salvation is of Him and assured but our continued relationship can only grow stronger if we dedicate the time to Him.
I still believe that Hebrews 4:9 is speaking of eternal rest that we find in Christ, but I also believe that we DO need to try to set aside time wholly dedicated to God.
Never let anything you do for God be something to boast about or to use as a spiritual measuring stick. I'll be honest and say that since I have been considering the Sabbath, I've found that many who are strong proponents of it also seem to be very judgmental and haughty. I'm not just talking about those on here but I've been lurking in many more similar places on the Internet and I've found this to be overwhelmingly true. It has been a big stumbling block for me because I don't want the same to happen to me. I want it to be all about strengthening my relationship with Father and Son, not using it to show how I am more spiritual than others.
So this is a warning to all: if you work out in your own heart and life that honoring the Sabbath as God intended is something for you, do it for your relationship with the Creator. And as an extension, let it be a light for others to see the Savior. Make sure you are not the one people are seeing under the light, let it be Christ alone.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 27 2007,23:29) Ken, OK, wikipedia forms your belief. Every other commentator I've seen disagree with wikipedia. Here are the verses that hints strongly at the real context.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”Note that God's works are finished and have been since the foundation of the world. Then it goes on to speak of the rest. Thus, eternal rest from works. I don't know that you can get much plainer than that.
Heb 4:10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
Put all three of these verses together: God's works have been finished since the foundation of the world, he rested after the 6 days of creation, and we will rest from our works as God did. Can you show me where those verses say God started his works back up? No, according to the writer, His works have been finished since the foundation of the world!
But I'm sure you'll post the wikipedia interpretation again…
Yes God's works were finished THEN Adam fell.Has the last enemny been defeated?
Has this OLD heaven and earth passed away?
Has the Son given everything to the Father?
In Short Revelations chapters 21 & 22?
Kejonn are you saying you will not keep God's forth commandment?
Here is a question for some of you. I have a regular secular job from Monday to Friday. What if I were to volunteer my time to a local mission or something similar on Saturday? Or if I participated in a prison ministry? This would be “work” per se, but I think we can see that Yeshua “worked” in a similar fashion on the Sabbath. That is, he was doing good on the Sabbath. By volunteering my time to one of these efforts, I can serve others and potentially share the Good News of Christ with them.
Just a thought.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 27 2007,23:29) Ken, OK, wikipedia forms your belief. Every other commentator I've seen disagree with wikipedia. Here are the verses that hints strongly at the real context.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”Note that God's works are finished and have been since the foundation of the world. Then it goes on to speak of the rest. Thus, eternal rest from works. I don't know that you can get much plainer than that.
Heb 4:10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
Put all three of these verses together: God's works have been finished since the foundation of the world, he rested after the 6 days of creation, and we will rest from our works as God did. Can you show me where those verses say God started his works back up? No, according to the writer, His works have been finished since the foundation of the world!
But I'm sure you'll post the wikipedia interpretation again…
Hey keyjonn are you saying that the many are right? Like those of the Trinity? Like the daughters of the RCC and the RCC herself?Just playing with you
to all…..> the sabbath is greater then most people understand. Let me explaine, I believe the sabbath was put into the commandments because it's a key to understand the future and the process of salvaiton. We all understand it's about rest, but is it just about one day rest, is that the principle of the sabbath, no it about eternal rest. There will come a time when (ALL) works of man will be destoryed by fervent heat so that nothing is remaining of mans works, God wipes out all of mans works and says behold (I) create (ALL) things new. God does not want any work other then His to remain and in order for that to happen man must cease from his works. The sabbath shows this principle of mans ceasation from works and requires us to rest from ours. Thats why it says he theat believes has intered into His (GOD”S) rest. God the Father is the ONLY true creater of all things including creating us righteous, it's all his work not ours so it totally elimimates boasting and pride of man. So to me the sabbath is indeed a principle of salvation of mankind. But to use the sabbath day as a measuring stick for our or others righteousness and judging others others by it is SIN of the worst Kind. I know the sabbath principle is very important to understand and it's is spritual and a picture of the process of salvation that we all must enter. But to use it as a tool to belittle people and cast despersions on other is indeed sin. I have kept the sabbath proberly longer then anyone one this site, because I proberly older that all, but i have seen it used many times as a measuring stick of ones spirituality and as a club to offend and abouse others with. If the sabbath is explaind rigth it can be a great tool in giving us understanding about the process of salvation. I am so sorry that Mandy and other got offended by it. If were going to talk about it lets do it in ways that encourage and build up Faith not tare it down. Kejonn you have presented the sabbath in a right way,……bless you brother…….Gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 28 2007,04:21) to all…..> the sabbath is greater then most people understand. Let me explaine, I believe the sabbath was put into the commandments because it's a key to understand the future and the process of salvaiton. We all understand it's about rest, but is it just about one day rest, is that the principle of the sabbath, no it about eternal rest. There will come a time when (ALL) works of man will be destoryed by fervent heat so that nothing is remaining of mans works, God wipes out all of mans works and says behold (I) create (ALL) things new. God does not want any work other then His to remain and in order for that to happen man must cease from his works. The sabbath shows this principle of mans ceasation from works and requires us to rest from ours. Thats why it says he theat believes has intered into His (GOD”S) rest. God the Father is the ONLY true creater of all things including creating us righteous, it's all his work not ours so it totally elimimates boasting and pride of man. So to me the sabbath is indeed a principle of salvation of mankind. But to use the sabbath day as a measuring stick for our or others righteousness and judging others others by it is SIN of the worst Kind. I know the sabbath principle is very important to understand and it's is spritual and a picture of the process of salvation that we all must enter. But to use it as a tool to belittle people and cast despersions on other is indeed sin. I have kept the sabbath proberly longer then anyone one this site, because I proberly older that all, but i have seen it used many times as a measuring stick of ones spirituality and as a club to offend and abouse others with. If the sabbath is explaind rigth it can be a great tool in giving us understanding about the process of salvation. I am so sorry that Mandy and other got offended by it. If were going to talk about it lets do it in ways that encourage and build up Faith not tare it down. Kejonn you have presented the sabbath in a right way,……bless you brother…….Gene I don't care who teaches you should keep the forth commandment the Importanat thing is that His children understand. All I ever did was show the scripture and pick up the stones that were thrown at me and throw them back USING scripture.
Speaking of sin Gene is it a sin to watch your brothers and sisters sin and NOT say anything? Just let them continue because I don't want to take a chance and hurt their feelings.
Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
But I'm glad you are repenting
God bless and May the Spirit help you,
Ken
kENRCH….> i HAVE WATCHED YOU SIN AND TOLD YOU ABOUT IT AND WHAT GOOD DID IT DO. I have never seen the sabbath abused as bad as you have here on this site. When you had an opertuinity to teach about the sabbath, you used it as a hammer. Why don't you go back and read you posts and what others have said. You were simply brain locked on the sun going down friday to sun down saturday. When you could have (if you even know) what the spiritual principle was and used that to encourage people, but not you just put people down saying they were serving the whore and ect. you are wrong rather you believe it or not and have done damage to the word and way of God………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 28 2007,05:20) kENRCH….> i HAVE WATCHED YOU SIN AND TOLD YOU ABOUT IT AND WHAT GOOD DID IT DO. I have never seen the sabbath abused as bad as you have here on this site. When you had an opertuinity to teach about the sabbath, you used it as a hammer. Why don't you go back and read you posts and what others have said. You were simply brain locked on the sun going down friday to sun down saturday. When you could have (if you even know) what the spiritual principle was and used that to encourage people, but not you just put people down saying they were serving the whore and ect. you are wrong rather you believe it or not and have done damage to the word and way of God………gene
Gene, gene I don't give a hoot what YOU think. You stood there and did Nothing!!!!! Said NOTHING!!! May be the Lord said well I can't get Gene to say anything and the only one left is Ken.After all He made a donkey speak
You Gene commited a sin by KNOWING BETTER and saying NOTHING. I really don't think the Lord will hold my “LACK” of smooth talk against me. BUT YOU Gene the “smooth talker said NOTHING.
Again I'm glad you are REPENTING and starting to say something in behalf of God rather then accuse me of doing a poor job. I said keep the forth commandment and you accuse me of sin…No matter How bad AT Least I was obeying my Father while YOU DID NOTHING but say how bad my manners are. It seems you are still in need of repentance.
Teach my brother TEACH His children, “Call them OUT” that's what you were called to do! SO DO IT! May be I'm here just to get you STARTED.
God bless and help you,
Ken
Kejonn…..> i ecourage you to neven dig deeper with regards to the sabbath. If seen in a spiritual sence it opens up a whole bunch of new throughts and ideas on the salvaton process. We who believe are putting ourselves to death (rest) day by day. This whole thing of Death and Rest are tied together. We are to die to ourselves but live to God. Again an example of the sabbath. You will be greately enlighten as you explore futher…..bless you brother……gene
To all Since we have somebody that needs our Prayers and has asked for it, can I ask all of you that we stop all the accusation and come together in Unity and Pray. Were two or three are gathered in my Name there I am in the midst of them. How about it Ken, Gen and all.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 28 2007,05:52) Kejonn…..> i ecourage you to neven dig deeper with regards to the sabbath. If seen in a spiritual sence it opens up a whole bunch of new throughts and ideas on the salvaton process. We who believe are putting ourselves to death (rest) day by day. This whole thing of Death and Rest are tied together. We are to die to ourselves but live to God. Again an example of the sabbath. You will be greately enlighten as you explore futher…..bless you brother……gene Quote If seen in a spiritual sence it opens up a whole bunch of new throughts and ideas on the salvaton process. Gene, won't you PLEASE share the new thoughts and Ideas on salavation you have. What does the Sabbath do for you?
For me the Sabbath brings me closer to the Father and further from the world.
God bless,
Ken
Kenrch…..> eternal salvation is a matter of intering eternal (REST), you see there is only one will that will be done in the future and that is GOD's will. And in order for one will to function all other must cease. Our wills is what cause us to do our (own works) and God's will causes Him to do (his works),So you see someone has got to cease from there works and when that takes place the one who ceased has entered in a rest. By putting our will's to death we are spiritually entering in rest. Thats is why the sabbath principle is far greater than sun down friday to sun down saturday. To me the sabbath concept is the picture of the process of salvation, and it was made for man because thats how man is going to be saved is through his ceasing from his works. God know man had to work for his lively hood because that was part of the curse because of disobedience. So when GOD started working with Israel He introduced the idea of ceasing from works and that was the Sabbath day. But it is a picture of a far greater and permit rest that we enter into. This is just the way i see the Sabbath. It's principle to me is the (way) salvation works. And we who believe are entering into that rest……just the way i see it……..peace …gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2007,03:23) Kenrch…..> eternal salvation is a matter of intering eternal (REST), you see there is only one will that will be done in the future and that is GOD's will. And in order for one will to function all other must cease. Our wills is what cause us to do our (own works) and God's will causes Him to do (his works),So you see someone has got to cease from there works and when that takes place the one who ceased has entered in a rest. By putting our will's to death we are spiritually entering in rest. Thats is why the sabbath principle is far greater than sun down friday to sun down saturday. To me the sabbath concept is the picture of the process of salvation, and it was made for man because thats how man is going to be saved is through his ceasing from his works. God know man had to work for his lively hood because that was part of the curse because of disobedience. So when GOD started working with Israel He introduced the idea of ceasing from works and that was the Sabbath day. But it is a picture of a far greater and permit rest that we enter into. This is just the way i see the Sabbath. It's principle to me is the (way) salvation works. And we who believe are entering into that rest……just the way i see it……..peace …gene
So on the Sabbath when we “cease altogether” from our works it is a “sample” of what the eternal Sabbath will be.AS I said on the Sabbath because I cease from ALL worldly thoughts (works, what tomorrow will bring etc) I am therefore closer to the creator than when i have to do worldly things to survive in this world. In fact on the Sabbath I LEAVE this world and enter a sample of what the NEW WORLD will be like.
So would you say that during the week when one has to be in this world they cannot sample the eternal rest as on the Sabbath when they cease from their worldly duties?
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