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- September 19, 2007 at 8:30 pm#66410IM4TruthParticipant
Ken I have to say something too, since you are accusing me over and over again. I have never said that I hated the Sabbath. The Sabbath was a sign between God and Israel. Period. It was a perpetual Covenant with God and Israel. I have told you so many times to try to study the Covenants, maybe you will learn something. Did you ever do that? No. Only you are right and no matter what anybody says, they are wrong.
I feel really sorry for you, to think just because you keep the Sabbath that you will be in the first resurrection. Yes I know that Organization that uses scare tactics. Now you follow them, I guess.
You have no Idea what we are supposed to keep under the New Covenant.
BTW did you not tell me that you studied with the W.W.Church of God, got Mr.Armstrong's Articles etc. then went with the Seven Day Adventist. Since you came out of the Catholic Church who taught you about the Sabbath? Was it not Mr, Armstrong?
Let me tell you Mr. I am for ever thankful for Mr. Armstrong, if it were not for Him we might be still in the Catholic Church. We are not to judge anybody, whether they are Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist or whoever. How do we know what is in their Hearts.
Paul said you are not to judge. Period. So stop.:blues:Have been praying for you and will continue.
Peace and Love Mrs.
September 20, 2007 at 1:04 am#66425kenrchParticipantQuote (Jodi @ Sep. 20 2007,07:40) Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 20 2007,06:22) Jodi you say I have a veil over my eyes. I think it's the other way around because it seems all of the people that came out of the WWCG hate the Sabbath.
This just goes to show how blind you are. You do not get through to people because you fail to be a good listener and see where people are coming from. Instead you assume and accuse hateful things. You obviously did not take in a word of my post, when I said things such as, some of my greatest memories are from Sabbath Feast days. All you see is that I disagree with you, so all you can do is accuse me of hating the Sabbath. Really, how childish!
Thank you for all that love and turning the cheek. I don't have to guess about the WWCG I tried their letter of the law.But whatever Jodi you have the answer, right?
We are saved by grace when we accept Christ. Does grace give us the right to sin.
You know that the definition of sin is transgression of the Law all “two” of them
Peace and Love,
Ken
September 20, 2007 at 1:18 am#66427kenrchParticipantQuote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 20 2007,08:30) Ken I have to say something too, since you are accusing me over and over again. I have never said that I hated the Sabbath. The Sabbath was a sign between God and Israel. Period. It was a perpetual Covenant with God and Israel. I have told you so many times to try to study the Covenants, maybe you will learn something. Did you ever do that? No. Only you are right and no matter what anybody says, they are wrong.
I feel really sorry for you, to think just because you keep the Sabbath that you will be in the first resurrection. Yes I know that Organization that uses scare tactics. Now you follow them, I guess.
You have no Idea what we are supposed to keep under the New Covenant.
BTW did you not tell me that you studied with the W.W.Church of God, got Mr.Armstrong's Articles etc. then went with the Seven Day Adventist. Since you came out of the Catholic Church who taught you about the Sabbath? Was it not Mr, Armstrong?
Let me tell you Mr. I am for ever thankful for Mr. Armstrong, if it were not for Him we might be still in the Catholic Church. We are not to judge anybody, whether they are Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist or whoever. How do we know what is in their Hearts.
Paul said you are not to judge. Period. So stop.:blues:Have been praying for you and will continue.
Peace and Love Mrs.
All denominations have some truth that is Satan's way of having people bite then they start swallowing lies. I enjoyed old Herbie. He was certainly different! But again when I kept the Sabbath according to Herbie I found myself “further” from the Lord, because of the letter of the law.I keep telling you and others I keep the Sabbath “spiritually” and of course I don't do my daily routine.
The Sabbath points to the eternal Sabbath and the Millennium.
At this point I don't think there is anything any of you can say that will get me excited.
To use Jesus to break His Father's commandments has done it for me! I'm finished AND I hope we can be friends.
In Peace and Love,
Ken
September 20, 2007 at 6:12 am#66441LaurelParticipantQuote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,05:44) Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 19 2007,05:30) Again and again LOVE= Keeping His Commandments.
This is very profound.I believe this is where the confusion lies. We are not talking about the 10 Commandments here, we are talking about the 2 the Jesus said everything else hangs on. And those two are to love God, and to love others.
So, I agree that:
Love=keeping his Commandments. In fact, you can't do one without the other, and visa-versa.One literally equals the other.
Where in the NT are we taught to keep the “10” Commandments? Where are they listed for the Gentiles? Where are they taught for the Gentiles sake? Did Jesus ever give a review of the “10” Commandments for adherence sake/for the Gentiles sake? I don't think I've read that anywhere!
You say that the “10” Commandments have not been done away with, and I would say that I beg to differ! Paul tells us that the law (notice he didn't specify whether it was the Mosaic or the 10 Commandments) was a shadow of Christ; he also when on to teach that there were now “2” Commandments that were needed: Love God, love people. Everything hangs on those “2” Commandments. And if we love God, we'll obey them.
God took care of the rest by saying he wrote his laws on our hearts. I know not to kill. It's in my heart. But to love my brother…..well, I need a command to do that because I forget and because sometimes it's really, really, really hard to do!
I'm out – have a good day all,
Mandy
By this we know that we love Him, if we keeo His commandments.So keeping the 10 commandments is love, and that is how we are suppose to expeess our love for Him.
By keeping the commands we are keeping the two greatest commandments.
Love,
LaurelSeptember 20, 2007 at 6:15 am#66442Not3in1ParticipantLaurel,
Why didn't Paul teach the 10 Commandments to the Gentiles who did not have the Torah? Thanks.
September 20, 2007 at 6:54 am#66443LaurelParticipantJodi,
First of you are not Israel and you are not grafted in. I know this because you do not keep His commandments. You are delusional.If by chance your conscience is not seared yet, it is because you are just ignorant of the Torah. Then, you still have a chance to repent when you do finally see the truth. BUT you will not see the truth because you walk in the world, and not in faith. I can say this because if you walked in faith, you would keep His commandments.
You can lie and say you have faith like Abraham, but you don't even know what you think of Abraham is also a lie. Abraham did have a Sabbath rest on the 7th day of the week, just like all who believed ffom Abel onward. Abraham listened to YHWH and followed Him, not knowing where He was going. He knew that as long as He followed YHWH he would be righteous. He kept the commands because He had faith, not because He followed a written law. Men have laws too. Abraham followed because He believed in His Savior, just like I do.
If it was up to me, I could think of a million things I could do around the house on Saturday, for myself, BUT because I love my Master Y'shua Messiah, and that means living the Way He lived, I follow Him, I know He leads me on the righteous path to our Father in heaven. I want to see my Father in heaven “face to face.” The only way to get there is #1 Believe Y'shua is the Messiah and the Son of Elohim, AND #2 Keep the commandments.
Faith without works is dead.
I really wish I didn't have to “rebuke” those who are going astray, BUT it is work that I must do, because if I know the truth and do not share it, your sin is upon me. Now that I have given you the truth, I am free of your misguided interpretation. Ken and I have together been witnesses for His truth. We are caring and loving you by telling you where you are wrong.
When “you people” say, “We are free to worship any day we choose” I say yes you are! You can worship on your day, but unless it is the Sabbath that you Set-apart, it is not for Him. YHWH was very plain in describing, His day. He said the 7th day was Set-apart to rest from His work from all that He had created. He said He blessed the 7th day so that we would “remember” that it was Him who createdd the heavens and the earth. He made it for us.
Since Adam and Eve were already in the world before the 7th day, they reasted too. Our Father in heaven doesn't get tired. He rested anyway. Aam and Eve were only on the planet one day, they weren't tired either. So resting on the Sabbath has a more than just physical purpose.
There is so much I coul share about His Word, that we can't even touch on, untill you first step out in faith and Keep His 10 commandments. You are like babies drinking mother's milk. You would choke on all the meat on the table if it were served to you.
As long as you keep the traditions and laws of men, you will never see the truth, and I can't even imagine the Spirit dwelling in a body that detests all that Messiah gave for you, not to say that it doesn't, I know Elohim is in controll and if you want to know the truth, He will gladly show it to you. So far, you Sun-god worshipers are blind to it.
ps. I was once in your shoes, so yes I can talk!
Laurel
September 20, 2007 at 7:18 am#66444LaurelParticipantMrs.Iam4truth,
Why is it that everything you believe is based on division. You believe Jews are divided from you. You believe the Torah is separate from the Messianic writings. You believe you are smarter that me. You believe the two great commands are seprarate from the 10 commands. You believe it is ok to separate from the Torah and worship on the Sunday.Everything I base my beliefs on makes everything one. Nothing I believe contradicts Scripture, any where. The only separation in the way I believe is a separation between good and evil, man's-laws and traditions vs. YHWH's laws and traditions, Spirit vs. world.
So I say test your beliefs and you will see what I see. Separation between good and good, separation between peoples=prejuduce.
Separate laws for different peoples goes againt everything Elohim created to be good.September 20, 2007 at 8:12 am#66449LaurelParticipantQuote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 20 2007,18:15) Laurel, Why didn't Paul teach the 10 Commandments to the Gentiles who did not have the Torah? Thanks.
Paul taught by being a living example first of all. He kept the commandments. Now here's some of the places where He taught Gentiles to keep the commands:Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
“Thou shall not covet.”
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Gentiles were grafted into the natural olive tree, the natural branches that had been cut off (Israel)can be grafted in more easily.
1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
“Thou shall not commit adultry”
1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
Paul knows there are teachers who say they act on YHWH's behalf, but they do not know what they are teaching. So it is in vain.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Paul calls these certain sect of Pharisees “believers” they kept the Torah. They understood circumcision of the heart. Most Pharisees did not believe, they lived by the written laws and sought their own righteousness, which is impossible.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
Paul thought it “important” for the Jews to know that He and His diciples kept YHWH's laws. He could do this and still be Spiritual because He knew in His heart that circumsicsion of the flesh was a shadow of circumcision of the Spirit, so he was showing his belief in a physical action, because as He says, faith without works is dead.
Paul kept the Feasts because He followed His Master the Messiah. He told the Gentiles that He must keep it. In time they would also come up to keep it, when they had grown in the Spirit of truth. It is a step by step process.
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Here Paul tells us to keep YHWH's Feasts, and the Gentiles he is teaching here, obviously understand the keeping of the commands, or they could not possibly get to the meatier things, such as the meaning of the Feasts.
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul tells the Gentiles in Corinth that he keeps the Torah, so that his teachings can not be misundersttod. He is living and teaching by example.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
G3862
παράδοσις
paradosis
par-ad'-os-is
From G3860; transmission, that is, (concretely) a precept; specifically the Jewish traditionary law: – ordinance, tradition.Paul is saying keep the traditions of YHWH, specifically the Feasts. I gave Strong's definition of the word ordinances here, which by the way are not the same “ordinances” (dogma) that were nailed to the cross.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
The Corinthians received much instruction from the Torah, because the word law here translates from the word Torah.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:Paul is again teaching according to the Torah, because the fact that Y'shua Messiah was buried, and rose again the third day was taught originally in the Torah.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:Some hold the truth in “unrighteousness” meaning “they think it is ok to transgress the Torah by their own imaginations.”
He says, they are without excuse!Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.They claimed to be wise in themselves. Meaning, their wisdom did not come from Elohim. The followed the losts of their own hearts. They changes the truth into a lie.
They change the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day, or any other day. They changed the Passover Feast to East-r Sun-day.Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.Not only do they transgress the Torah by worshipping on the 1st day of the week, but they find it pleasurable, and other commandments are broken causing more unrighteous behaviors, that they are actually proud of. Today they sit on their TV talk shows and brag about being a sinner! They stand in the pulpit and brag about being higher than the law, that they are above the law, and have no need for it. They are proud to be sinners, and they have no excuse!
Paul says much about keeping Torah in faith, and not being saved by it, but by the grace of a forgiving Father, because we have all sinned. Some od us however, when we learn what sin is, know that we should sin nor more. Other of us brag about being better than Messiah, because even He, He kept the Torah(law).
If you feel you are better tha
n Messiah, you have no need for Messiah.Laurel
September 20, 2007 at 9:34 am#66452IM4TruthParticipantTo use Jesus to break His Father's commandments has done it for me! I'm finished AND I hope we can be friends:)
That depends if you can stop accusing me, that would be nice to be friends.
Ken Jesus is the fulfillment of the O.T. Law ,how do I use Jesus by doing what. Paul says ” One esteems on Day and another esteems every Day alike.
I praise God every Day, I worship every Day, I pray to Him every Day. I am the Temple of God. The Holy Spirit lives in me. That makes us a Holy People the Bible says. We are His Brothers. We are Gods Son. We have entered that Rest, like Christ has.
I said it so many times that we are on a much steeper road because we to do what Jesus is teaching us on the Sermon on the Mount. Which magnifies the law and makes it spiritual. But how can you make the Sabbath spiritual, it is not possible. It was added because Israel was working 7 days a week and never considered God at all,. So the Law was added because of transgression. But we are not under that Law. Jodi really explains it good.It is really ironic, because we are so use to doing all of our House cleaning on Fridays, wash on Mondays and everything else during the week. We had gotten used to doing that and it stuck with us.
I have been especially been thinking of you on the Sabbaths, and Praying for you.Peace and Love Mrs.
September 20, 2007 at 1:37 pm#66460kejonnParticipantWow, this thread scares me. I have never seen a thread with so much tension on this board as this one. Even the various trinity threads have those who would be called brothers and sisters treating each other better.
I now have a better understanding of why so many Israelites did see Yeshua as Messiah. The Messiah was to deliver his people from bondage and he was doing that: the bondage of the Pharisees. This is what he said that separated the two types of people in his day:
Joh 5:39 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
Some people thought they had eternal life by obeying the scriptures, others saw that eternal life came from the one who the scriptures were about. If obedience to the Law was sufficient, why was Yeshua even sent? Seems a mockery of his life to ignore this.
I love all of you, and will be praying for you. I can say nothing more at this point because I'm so amazed how much division has occurred in here. I will be no part of it.
September 20, 2007 at 2:32 pm#66461kenrchParticipantQuote (kejonn @ Sep. 21 2007,01:37) Wow, this thread scares me. I have never seen a thread with so much tension on this board as this one. Even the various trinity threads have those who would be called brothers and sisters treating each other better. I now have a better understanding of why so many Israelites did see Yeshua as Messiah. The Messiah was to deliver his people from bondage and he was doing that: the bondage of the Pharisees. This is what he said that separated the two types of people in his day:
Joh 5:39 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
Some people thought they had eternal life by obeying the scriptures, others saw that eternal life came from the one who the scriptures were about. If obedience to the Law was sufficient, why was Yeshua even sent? Seems a mockery of his life to ignore this.
I love all of you, and will be praying for you. I can say nothing more at this point because I'm so amazed how much division has occurred in here. I will be no part of it.
Kejonn,I don't keep the Commandments to get saved I keep the Sabbath because I am saved and want to please my Father.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.Those in the flesh are not subject to the law of God. They cannot be because they are of the flesh.
Is that what the above scripture saying? That's what it says to me!
But whatever they want I give up. Their blood is no longer on my hands.
I'm not worried because I believe they will be saved but will be the least in the kingdom having to learn during the Millennium.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Isn't that what the above scripture is saying? That's what it says to me.
God bless,
Ken
September 20, 2007 at 2:42 pm#66462IM4TruthParticipantKeyonn Yes there is a lot of tension, that is why I am praying and I hope that you would join me in prayer rather then turn away from your Brothers and Sisters in Christ.
Prace and Love Mrs.:blues:
September 20, 2007 at 5:54 pm#66476Not3in1ParticipantQuote (kejonn @ Sep. 21 2007,01:37) Wow, this thread scares me. I have never seen a thread with so much tension on this board as this one. Even the various trinity threads have those who would be called brothers and sisters treating each other better. I now have a better understanding of why so many Israelites did see Yeshua as Messiah. The Messiah was to deliver his people from bondage and he was doing that: the bondage of the Pharisees. This is what he said that separated the two types of people in his day:
Joh 5:39 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
Some people thought they had eternal life by obeying the scriptures, others saw that eternal life came from the one who the scriptures were about. If obedience to the Law was sufficient, why was Yeshua even sent? Seems a mockery of his life to ignore this.
I love all of you, and will be praying for you. I can say nothing more at this point because I'm so amazed how much division has occurred in here. I will be no part of it.
You know why there is so much tension?Whenever something (or someone) has been in bondage and they are set free……they will do anything and everything to not be put into bondage again! They will fight for their freedom. This is what I see as the main issue here: freedom versus bondage.
I, for one, will not be put into bondage again. What do you think our forefather's (who were sleeping in tents) would have given for the blood of Jesus to cover them? What would the Jews have given for instant relief of their guilt and shame? I think the word “mockery” is a good one, KJ. I think to ignore that we are covered by Jesus' blood makes a mockery out of his sacrifice.
Yes! Follow the 10 Commandments – good. But this will not save your soul from any kind of death. The 10 Commandments did not and do not bring salvation! So it is for love that we obey the Commandments. Well, OK, then let it be a love issue, and not (as some have incorrectly judged) a matter of salvation.
For those who say that God's holy spirit will not continue to lead us into all truth until we grasp the 10 Commandments is, in my opinion, ludicrous! As far as name-calling and otherwise spiritually bullying……this is your shame.
James 3:13 and 17,18
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deed done in the humility that comes from wisdom.But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
So far, those who have been teaching and putting themselves above other's have not shown this “wisdom that comes from heaven”; I am left to look at their tree to see what kind of “fruit” they are producing. And this is what scares me.
I'm taking a break from HeavenNet for little while, I've decided. We have a lot going on here at the house that needs my attention, and I also want to return to some of my Bible studies that I have left un-done. I would like to encourage anyone who feels like they have a message or teaching from God to consider how they share their wisdom – may it be first of all peace-loving and considerate of other's. If it is not, your religion and message are worthless! No one will listen to you. You will promote controversy instead of spiritual growth. If your mission is to truly bring those you teach closer to the heart of our dear Father and his Son, Jesus – then please, let your life show it's good deeds and humility.
God bless us all as we seek him; find him, and share him. I would like to check back a few more times to reply to a few people and then I'll be on my break for a month or two. I will be praying for everyone, and I'll miss you all while I'm gone.
September 20, 2007 at 6:53 pm#66477IM4TruthParticipantMandy I miss you already, but I can understand why you want a break, since you have a Family that needs you attention. That should always go first. I will keep you in my Prayer. Tears
Love and Peace Mrs.:(
September 20, 2007 at 8:00 pm#66488Not3in1ParticipantJodi,
I've already been praying for your delivery! I am so thrilled for you. When my daughter was placed in my arms at 4 months old (we adopted her from Korea), I couldn't believe the miracle of her. I can't even imagine what it must be like to give birth to one who is a part of you. This is your blessing from our dear Father. Enjoy, and happy baby daysHope you're still here in a couple months….you're teaching has helped many.
Love,
MandySeptember 20, 2007 at 8:07 pm#66490Not3in1ParticipantKen and Laurel,
I am saying goodbye to you both in the same post because I believe you both have some of the same lessons to learn. Part of the reason I am taking a break is that I cannot stand-up under your constant belittling and spiritual bullying! The lessons you are hoping to promote have backfired on you both. You have brought division and controversy instead of understanding and unity. I know you both don't care if there is unity or not, after all, you have a message from God! Well, you need to start caring. If you want to call yourselves Christians…….you need to go and learn what it means to be “Christ-like.”
I have been interested in what you both have brought to this thread, unfortunately, some of it was hard to understand because of the puffed up pride. This is not just a criticism that is coming from me, but it has been confirmed to you both through many witnesses. Perhaps this will be something that you will be willing to look at in the future – for the gospel's sake.
Forgiveness that leads to love,
MandySeptember 20, 2007 at 8:15 pm#66491Not3in1ParticipantBro Gene,
Also a huge thank you for your contributions and encouragement.Bro Tim4, and David – thank you brothers as well.
OK, see you all in a couple months……
Much love,
MandySeptember 20, 2007 at 8:44 pm#66494JodiParticipantI have more things to add on this thread from my studies on the Sabbath, but first I would like to share a few things.
First I would like to ask Ken and Laurel a few questions and secondly give everyone some of my thoughts-
Tell me who in the bible was perfect besides Jesus? You both seem to think that if God is working in a person then they are following His law perfectly, or at least they understood perfectly the law. We are to take on God's Spirit, which is love and love is patient and love is kind. I have several friends who are atheists, they are tremendous at bearing one another’s burdens (thus fulfilling the law of Christ). I can see that even though they do not have ANY of the law they hold the second commandment in their heart. God being fair and just, God being not slack, but desiring all people to come into repentance, I KNOW in due TIME God will lead these people to Him. Until then, by their spirit in having the second commandment in their heart, I know that God’s Spirit IS working in them already. I am patient in YHWH and His work, and I recognize that neither I nor them are perfect.
Everyone should stand up for what they believe is the truth. Now if you believe that God wants us to keep the Sabbath then by all means share what you believe. To believe however that someone does not have God working in them because they do not keep the Sabbath and accuse them of all sorts of things, like not having true faith, really just makes me sick. Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” People on this forum are seeking God, if God has yet to reveal to them something that you believe is true, be patient, be kind and have Faith that if it is true God will bring it to them, and unless you are perfect which we know is impossible, then don’t judge. Now when I say don’t judge this is what I mean-
There is nothing wrong with identifying sin in other people, and saying I don’t think that is right. But there is something extremely wrong with telling people that they are not of God, or that they do not have God’s Spirit working in them, or that they don’t have true faith, or that they will be called least in the kingdom, or not at all. When you do these things you are putting yourself above or at the position that God granted ONLY to Jesus.
Going ASTRAY means that God has revealed something to you and you have denied it. God works in mysterious ways and we see from the bible that God reveals certain things to certain people, and that He works parts of His Spirit in some and other parts of His Spirit in others. I believe it is important to acknowledge that the ONLY person He has revealed everything to is Jesus. You cannot go astray from something that God has not taught you. God has not brought me to believe that I need to work six days and rest on the 7th. If you are a person that believes this is required by God, then rejoice that in due time He will certainly lead me to this truth. Just because a person commits what you think is a sin, does not give you the right to CONDEMN them, by doing so you not only undermined God and His plan, but you act as if you are God. I don’t see anyone on this forum who is going astray, I see people seeking after God in their heart and I have Faith that God will bring all of us into the same truth in due time. I believe whether we are getting along or not, God is most certainly teaching us all something of value by being here.
Now I was told by Laurel, “BUT you will not see the truth because you walk in the world, and not in faith. I can say this because if you walked in faith, you would keep His commandments.”
So because I commit ONE sin in your eyes, I am of the world and I do not walk in faith. That is very harsh thinking. Laurel, are you perfect? Even though I believe that you sin by your judgments on other people, I still know that you have faith and I would never tell you otherwise.
Laurel you know NOTHING about me, but because I don’t believe in keeping the Sabbath you say I am of this world. I’m sorry, but that accusation just makes me sick that you could be sooooo judgmental.
To everyone
A little bit about me…Everyday, every hour I reflect on how I hate this world and desire the return of Jesus. Often a song from my childhood comes into my heart. Some of you, from the WWC of God might recall the song, I think it was sung by the children’s choir every year at the Feast of Tabernacles no matter what site you were at. The song is called It Won’t Be Long Now.
1. It won't be long now till the world is at peace
Till troubles have ceased, it won't be long.
It won't be long now till the beauty we see
For the whole world will be, it won't be long.Refrain:
The lamb will peacefully dwell with the lion,
The leopard will lie down with the kid.
The wolf and the bear will no longer be wild,
Little child, it won't be long now.2. It won't be long now till all people join hands
From many a land, it won't be long.
It won't be long now till the children will smile
And laugh all the while, it won't be long.Learning this song and being taught at a young age about what life will be like when Jesus returns has had a strong impact in my life. It has filled my life with so much Faith in God and hope in His plan. I can recall being in the little girl’s room at elementary school and telling my friend Kimmy all about the song. As we were washing our hands, she just smiled at me and said, “really,” with amazement in her eyes!
I am forever thankful to the WWC of God and proud that from the time I was a young child, I have and do walk, not in this world, but in the knowledge of God’s Kingdom to come.
Laurel might not believe that I have true faith, fortunately I know that God knows that I really do. My faith is written ALL OVER my heart, God sees it when I strive to mirror His character out of the love I have for Him, and as well, when I strive to live my life serving and loving others.
This song just really seems to hit me right now. Though I may worry about the struggles my children will have to face in this world, I am so thankful and relieved knowing that God’s Kingdom is right around the corner.
With all this tension, I would just like to ask if everyone could come together in Unity with this song. If there is anything we all can agree on it is that we share in the belief of Christ’s return and the establishment of God’s glorious kingdom.
Peace and Love, Jodi
September 20, 2007 at 9:00 pm#66495IM4TruthParticipantJodi Look in Charity Rhymes our Song is listed there. It is also one of my favorites. Yes I am too for ever thankful to Mr. Armstrong leadership. We learned to study the Bible there. And we were a Family, I miss that so much. I am sitting here crying, first Mandy leaving and now you and our Song. Bit to much.
I just cant wait til Christ will return. Or maybe I can sleep in the grave for awhile.Peace and Love Mrs.
September 20, 2007 at 11:54 pm#66508kenrchParticipantQuote (Jodi @ Sep. 21 2007,08:44) I have more things to add on this thread from my studies on the Sabbath, but first I would like to share a few things. First I would like to ask Ken and Laurel a few questions and secondly give everyone some of my thoughts-
Tell me who in the bible was perfect besides Jesus? You both seem to think that if God is working in a person then they are following His law perfectly, or at least they understood perfectly the law. We are to take on God's Spirit, which is love and love is patient and love is kind. I have several friends who are atheists, they are tremendous at bearing one another’s burdens (thus fulfilling the law of Christ). I can see that even though they do not have ANY of the law they hold the second commandment in their heart. God being fair and just, God being not slack, but desiring all people to come into repentance, I KNOW in due TIME God will lead these people to Him. Until then, by their spirit in having the second commandment in their heart, I know that God’s Spirit IS working in them already. I am patient in YHWH and His work, and I recognize that neither I nor them are perfect.
Everyone should stand up for what they believe is the truth. Now if you believe that God wants us to keep the Sabbath then by all means share what you believe. To believe however that someone does not have God working in them because they do not keep the Sabbath and accuse them of all sorts of things, like not having true faith, really just makes me sick. Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” People on this forum are seeking God, if God has yet to reveal to them something that you believe is true, be patient, be kind and have Faith that if it is true God will bring it to them, and unless you are perfect which we know is impossible, then don’t judge. Now when I say don’t judge this is what I mean-
There is nothing wrong with identifying sin in other people, and saying I don’t think that is right. But there is something extremely wrong with telling people that they are not of God, or that they do not have God’s Spirit working in them, or that they don’t have true faith, or that they will be called least in the kingdom, or not at all. When you do these things you are putting yourself above or at the position that God granted ONLY to Jesus.
Going ASTRAY means that God has revealed something to you and you have denied it. God works in mysterious ways and we see from the bible that God reveals certain things to certain people, and that He works parts of His Spirit in some and other parts of His Spirit in others. I believe it is important to acknowledge that the ONLY person He has revealed everything to is Jesus. You cannot go astray from something that God has not taught you. God has not brought me to believe that I need to work six days and rest on the 7th. If you are a person that believes this is required by God, then rejoice that in due time He will certainly lead me to this truth. Just because a person commits what you think is a sin, does not give you the right to CONDEMN them, by doing so you not only undermined God and His plan, but you act as if you are God. I don’t see anyone on this forum who is going astray, I see people seeking after God in their heart and I have Faith that God will bring all of us into the same truth in due time. I believe whether we are getting along or not, God is most certainly teaching us all something of value by being here.
Now I was told by Laurel, “BUT you will not see the truth because you walk in the world, and not in faith. I can say this because if you walked in faith, you would keep His commandments.”
So because I commit ONE sin in your eyes, I am of the world and I do not walk in faith. That is very harsh thinking. Laurel, are you perfect? Even though I believe that you sin by your judgments on other people, I still know that you have faith and I would never tell you otherwise.
Laurel you know NOTHING about me, but because I don’t believe in keeping the Sabbath you say I am of this world. I’m sorry, but that accusation just makes me sick that you could be sooooo judgmental.
To everyone
A little bit about me…Everyday, every hour I reflect on how I hate this world and desire the return of Jesus. Often a song from my childhood comes into my heart. Some of you, from the WWC of God might recall the song, I think it was sung by the children’s choir every year at the Feast of Tabernacles no matter what site you were at. The song is called It Won’t Be Long Now.
1. It won't be long now till the world is at peace
Till troubles have ceased, it won't be long.
It won't be long now till the beauty we see
For the whole world will be, it won't be long.Refrain:
The lamb will peacefully dwell with the lion,
The leopard will lie down with the kid.
The wolf and the bear will no longer be wild,
Little child, it won't be long now.2. It won't be long now till all people join hands
From many a land, it won't be long.
It won't be long now till the children will smile
And laugh all the while, it won't be long.Learning this song and being taught at a young age about what life will be like when Jesus returns has had a strong impact in my life. It has filled my life with so much Faith in God and hope in His plan. I can recall being in the little girl’s room at elementary school and telling my friend Kimmy all about the song. As we were washing our hands, she just smiled at me and said, “really,” with amazement in her eyes!
I am forever thankful to the WWC of God and proud that from the time I was a young child, I have and do walk, not in this world, but in the knowledge of God’s Kingdom to come.
Laurel might not believe that I have true faith, fortunately I know that God knows that I really do. My faith is written ALL OVER my heart, God sees it when I strive to mirror His character out of the love I have for Him, and as well, when I strive to live my life serving and loving others.
This song just really seems to hit me right now. Though I may worry about the struggles my children will have to face in this world, I am so thankful and relieved knowing that God’s Kingdom is right around the corner.
With all this tension, I would just like to ask if everyone could come together in Unity with this song. If there is anything we all can agree on it is that we share in the belief of Christ’s return and the establishment of God’s glorious kingdom.
Peace and Love, Jodi
We are ALL one in Christ weather I keep the Sabbath or not.Jesus saves not the Law or any comnmandment.
Just don't ask me to NOT keep the forth commandment or tell me that I should not tell anyone to keep the forth commandment.
You guys keep any day or every day or whatever day it's ok with me. Those who believe in the Trinity are my brothers and sisters because they believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for them.
Peace and Love,
Ken
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