Root and branch

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,12:32)

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:12) To all, Isaiah 53:10 King James Version (KJV) 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. Mike, Jesus sees his seed. Jesus has no seed of the flesh to see.  Jesus does have seed of the spirit that do the works he does.

It's hard to argue with that scripture, Kerwin.  The passage is most definitely about God's servant, Jesus Christ.

But Jesus will also SOMEDAY have a wife, right?  (Rev 21)  In God's righteous ways, a man first takes a bride, and THEN come the children.

If the bride has not yet been prepared for the Lamb, then how can he already have the children?

So I believe you have scripturally shown that Jesus WILL someday have children…… but he doesn't have them yet.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 05 2013,07:35)

Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,12:35) Mike, Quote Kerwin, are YOU one of Jesus' “children”?  YES or NO? I hope so but Jehovah is the Judge. I was going to say that you must also then be a child of David as well.  And then I was going to ask you how that can be since you are not Jewish.  But then I remembered that God made Abraham the father of many nations – which made my would-be point null and void.

Mike,

You are correct.

I believe Scripture even speaks of Spiritual Jews.

[terraricca]

let it be true that ;

their are no real children,no real marriage,no real bride ,no real groom,their are sons of God ,their are brothers but those are ALLEGORICAL THERMS TO EXPLAIN HOW THING ARE,WILL BE AND COME TO THE END ,

CHILDREN = A MEANING
MARRIAGE = A MEANING
BRIDE = A MEANING
GROOM = A MEANING
SON SHIP = A MEANING
BROTHERS = A MEANING

AND MANY OTHERS

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ April 06 2013,22:25)

let it be true that ; their are no real children,no real marriage,no real bride ,no real groom,their are sons of God ,their are brothers but those are ALLEGORICAL THERMS TO EXPLAIN HOW THING ARE,WILL BE AND COME TO THE END

Amen. Well put, Pierre.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 07 2013,10:50)

Quote (terraricca @ April 06 2013,22:25) let it be true that ; their are no real children,no real marriage,no real bride ,no real groom,their are sons of God ,their are brothers but those are ALLEGORICAL THERMS TO EXPLAIN HOW THING ARE,WILL BE AND COME TO THE END Amen.  Well put, Pierre.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 07 2013,10:25)

let it be true that ; their are no real children,no real marriage,no real bride ,no real groom,their are sons of God ,their are brothers but those are ALLEGORICAL THERMS TO EXPLAIN HOW THING ARE,WILL BE AND COME TO THE END , CHILDREN = A MEANING MARRIAGE = A MEANING BRIDE = A MEANING GROOM = A MEANING SON SHIP = A MEANING BROTHERS = A MEANING AND MANY OTHERS

T,

I believe you are correct. Jesus states the allegorical relationship of works is more important than the relationship of the flesh.

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 04 2013,17:51)

Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,12:32) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:12) To all, Isaiah 53:10 King James Version (KJV) 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. Mike, Jesus sees his seed. Jesus has no seed of the flesh to see.  Jesus does have seed of the spirit that do the works he does. It's hard to argue with that scripture, Kerwin.  The passage is most definitely about God's servant, Jesus Christ. But Jesus will also SOMEDAY have a wife, right?  (Rev 21)  In God's righteous ways, a man first takes a bride, and THEN come the children. If the bride has not yet been prepared for the Lamb, then how can he already have the children? So I believe you have scripturally shown that Jesus WILL someday have children…… but he doesn't have them yet.

Hi Mike,

Gal.3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Jn.1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

Rom.8:14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

1Jn.3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

Peace brother..

[terraricca]

ABE

Quote

Gal.3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jn.1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, Rom.8:14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 1Jn.3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. Peace brother..

THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING

[Lightenup]

Quote (abe @ April 07 2013,17:32)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 04 2013,17:51) Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,12:32) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:12) To all, Isaiah 53:10 King James Version (KJV) 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. Mike, Jesus sees his seed. Jesus has no seed of the flesh to see.  Jesus does have seed of the spirit that do the works he does. It's hard to argue with that scripture, Kerwin.  The passage is most definitely about God's servant, Jesus Christ. But Jesus will also SOMEDAY have a wife, right?  (Rev 21)  In God's righteous ways, a man first takes a bride, and THEN come the children. If the bride has not yet been prepared for the Lamb, then how can he already have the children? So I believe you have scripturally shown that Jesus WILL someday have children…… but he doesn't have them yet. Hi Mike, Gal.3:26   For you are   all    sons     of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jn.1:12   But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become   children   of God, even to those who believe in His name, Rom.8:14   For those who are  led  by the Spirit of God are the   children   of God. 1Jn.3:10   This is how we know who the   children   of God are and who the children of the   devil   are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not   love   their brother and sister.   Peace brother..

Good post, Abe. We are 'sons' now if we receive Jesus as our LORD. Someday we will realize the fullness of that truth.

I have some friends who have adopted a child from Haiti but that process started about 3 years ago. They just recently were allowed to bring him home to live with them. For three years, he was their son in their heart, their son of promise. Now he is beginning to realize what that means.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2013,20:36)

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,22:26) Mike, Jesse is Jesse's offspring as in stump of Jesse's offspring.   Jesus is the branch of Jesse's offspring.  He is a branch among Jesse's offspring.  A branch that is fruitful, which is to say a root. David is a branch among Jesse's children and also a root for he sired children for the entire group of Jesse' offspring. You, yourself had the information to answer your own question. Quote Jesse is Jesse's offspring as in stump of Jesse's offspring. No Kerwin.  “Jesse” is not the name of a tribe of Israel, and his offspring are therefore never called “Jesse” – as a collective group. Quote Jesus is the branch of Jesse's offspring.  He is a branch among Jesse's offspring.  A branch that is fruitful, which is to say a root. Agreed.  Jesus, according to his humanity, is a branch of Jesse, and therefore equally an offspring of David – just like he tell us. Quote David is a branch among Jesse's children and also a root for he sired children for the entire group of Jesse' offspring. Ahhhh………… so NOW it becomes clear to me why it is so important for you that Jesus himself has children.     You are saying that David is a “branch” of Jesse's lineage (since David came AFTER the earliest members of Jesse's lineage), and David is also a “root” of Jesse's lineage (since those that came into being through David himself are still considered a part of “Jesse's lineage”). And now I know why you want to call the collective group of Jesse's relatives by the name “Jesse”.  That way you can say David is a root of Jesse (meaning he has brought forth branches of his own in the collective group of Jesse's relatives), and David is also a branch of Jesse (because David himself was brought forth as a branch from a different root in the collective group of Jesse's descendants). Wow dude!  It's like you're playing a game of chess, thinking more moves ahead than I can count!    Kudos for that, BUT……………….. 1.  “Jesse” is never in scripture used as a name to describe “the collective group of Jesse's relatives”. 2.  Only the twelve tribes are called by their patriarchs name as a collective group, and even then, they usually have the prefix “ben”.  For example, the ones we call “Benjaminites” are called “bene Benjamin” (sons of Benjamin) in Hebrew. 3.  Even according to your scenario, David would never be called “THE root of Jesse”.  Those words would clearly imply that Jesse sprang forth FROM his own son, David. 4.  Jesus most definitely calls himself “THE Root” of David. 5.  Jesus has no children that the Bible speaks of. I've got to hand it to you, Kerwin.  You have put a LOT of time and thinking into this……….. all so you don't have to accept that Jesus lived as a spirit being long before he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being.   Unfortunately for you, Rev 22:16 is far from being the only verse that speaks of the pre-existence of Jesus. I hope that someday you learn to put away your own personal wishes for Jesus to have been exactly like us, and just accept the scriptures for what they teach.

Good post Mike.

[Lightenup]

kerwin,
you said to Mike,

Quote

Jesse is Jesse's offspring as in stump of Jesse's offspring. Jesus is the branch of Jesse's offspring. He is a branch among Jesse's offspring. A branch that is fruitful, which is to say a root. David is a branch among Jesse's children and also a root for he sired children for the entire group of Jesse' offspring.

Think of it this way:
There are two roots holding up a tree. The First Root is the Father, the Second Root is the only begotten Root that had eternally been within the First Root, the Son. The First Root through the Second Root brought forth first a tree trunk which symbolizes Jesse and his descendants up until Yeshua. The tree is just a stump until a shoot/Branch springs forth. This Branch grew fruit off of it, maybe pears or something. The 'fruit' are not more branches but actual fruit and fruit does not come directly from a stump or a root. Also, more branches do not grow out of the fruit. The branch would not be the root of the fruit but instead the branch which brings forth the fruit as a branch. The Roots of the fruit are still that which remains under the soil that holds up the tree.

[abe]

Quote (terraricca @ April 07 2013,15:37)

ABE Quote Gal.3:26   For you are   all    sons     of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jn.1:12   But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become   children   of God, even to those who believe in His name, Rom.8:14   For those who are  led  by the Spirit of God are the   children   of God. 1Jn.3:10   This is how we know who the   children   of God are and who the children of the   devil   are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not   love   their brother and sister.   Peace brother.. THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING

Hi T,

(quote)
THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING

I dont understand?

Peace brother.

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 04 2013,17:51)

Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,12:32) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,12:12) To all, Isaiah 53:10 King James Version (KJV) 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. Mike, Jesus sees his seed. Jesus has no seed of the flesh to see.  Jesus does have seed of the spirit that do the works he does. It's hard to argue with that scripture, Kerwin.  The passage is most definitely about God's servant, Jesus Christ. But Jesus will also SOMEDAY have a wife, right?  (Rev 21)  In God's righteous ways, a man first takes a bride, and THEN come the children. If the bride has not yet been prepared for the Lamb, then how can he already have the children? So I believe you have scripturally shown that Jesus WILL someday have children…… but he doesn't have them yet.

Hi Mike,

Heb.2:9 But we behold him who hath been made a little lower than the angels, even Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honour, that by the grace of God he should taste death for every man.
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11For both he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, In the midst of the congregation will I sing thy praise.
13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold, I and the children which God hath given me.
Heb.2:14 Since then the children are sharers in flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner partook of the same; that through death he might bring to nought him that had the power of death, that is, the devil
15 and might deliver all them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily not of angels doth he take hold, but he taketh hold of the SEED of Abraham.
17Wherefore it behoved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

but he taketh hold of the SEED of Abraham.

Peace brother.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ April 07 2013,16:32)

Hi Mike, Gal.3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Hi Abe,

We were not discussing children of God, but children of Christ.

peace

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ April 08 2013,11:00)

16For verily not of angels doth he take hold, but he taketh hold of the      SEED    of Abraham.

Hebrews 2:16 NRSV ©
For it is clear that he did not come to help angels, but the descendants of Abraham.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 07 2013,19:33)

Good post Mike.

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ April 08 2013,12:28)

Quote (terraricca @ April 07 2013,15:37) ABE Quote Gal.3:26   For you are   all    sons     of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jn.1:12   But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become   children   of God, even to those who believe in His name, Rom.8:14   For those who are  led  by the Spirit of God are the   children   of God. 1Jn.3:10   This is how we know who the   children   of God are and who the children of the   devil   are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not   love   their brother and sister.   Peace brother.. THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING Hi T, (quote) THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING I dont understand? Peace brother.

abe

read those scriptures that you quoted ,one by one ,

like a 6 year old kid, and ask yourself what does it say,what it mean ,what it does not say ,at the end of your reading ask yourself ,what should I do to please God

and see if you can answer that question and give me the answer

[abe]

Quote (terraricca @ April 08 2013,17:42)

Quote (abe @ April 08 2013,12:28) Quote (terraricca @ April 07 2013,15:37) ABE Quote Gal.3:26   For you are   all    sons     of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jn.1:12   But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become   children   of God, even to those who believe in His name, Rom.8:14   For those who are  led  by the Spirit of God are the   children   of God. 1Jn.3:10   This is how we know who the   children   of God are and who the children of the   devil   are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not   love   their brother and sister.   Peace brother.. THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING Hi T, (quote) THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING I dont understand? Peace brother. abe read those scriptures that you quoted ,one by one , like a 6 year old kid, and ask yourself what does it say,what it mean ,what it does not say ,at the end of your reading ask yourself ,what should I do to please God and see if you can answer that question and give me the answer

Hi T,

(quote)
THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING

Beginning of what?

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ April 09 2013,07:47)

Quote (terraricca @ April 08 2013,17:42) Quote (abe @ April 08 2013,12:28) Quote (terraricca @ April 07 2013,15:37) ABE Quote Gal.3:26   For you are   all    sons     of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jn.1:12   But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become   children   of God, even to those who believe in His name, Rom.8:14   For those who are  led  by the Spirit of God are the   children   of God. 1Jn.3:10   This is how we know who the   children   of God are and who the children of the   devil   are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not   love   their brother and sister.   Peace brother.. THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING Hi T, (quote) THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING I dont understand? Peace brother. abe read those scriptures that you quoted ,one by one , like a 6 year old kid, and ask yourself what does it say,what it mean ,what it does not say ,at the end of your reading ask yourself ,what should I do to please God and see if you can answer that question and give me the answer Hi T, (quote) THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING Beginning of what?

abe

the beginning of the true lay out of understanding

[abe]

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2013,18:11)

Quote (abe @ April 09 2013,07:47) Quote (terraricca @ April 08 2013,17:42) Quote (abe @ April 08 2013,12:28) Quote (terraricca @ April 07 2013,15:37) ABE Quote Gal.3:26   For you are   all    sons     of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jn.1:12   But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become   children   of God, even to those who believe in His name, Rom.8:14   For those who are  led  by the Spirit of God are the   children   of God. 1Jn.3:10   This is how we know who the   children   of God are and who the children of the   devil   are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not   love   their brother and sister.   Peace brother.. THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING Hi T, (quote) THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING I dont understand? Peace brother. abe read those scriptures that you quoted ,one by one , like a 6 year old kid, and ask yourself what does it say,what it mean ,what it does not say ,at the end of your reading ask yourself ,what should I do to please God and see if you can answer that question and give me the answer Hi T, (quote) THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING Beginning of what? abe the beginning of the true lay out of understanding

Hi T,

Scripture please?

[Author]

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