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Irene: Are you saying that that in your opinion, the New Testament, where Jesus makes no distinction between Jew,Gentile,Bond,Free,Male,or Female or any person that believes, is actually a covenant that witholds the spirit from certain people, IE: Israel or Jews? How about races of people? Colors? I believe the New Covenant of Christ from God is for all the world, for all mankind, for all who believe, for all who accept and for WHOSOEVER will believe the truth of Jesus! I hope You are wrong.
If we are not in the old covenant anymore the law is fulfilled and finished. Jesus established the new.
When people that believed they were under the law asked Jesus questions about the law he answered them as to the law. They had to make their own choice whether to continue to follow the law or accept the free gift of Jesus from God. Everyone must make that choice.
You quote scriptures of saving grace and gifts of God, not of works or deeds lest any man should boast. In other words a man can't boast of a gift he received freely without doing anything but believing. If he received the gift of salvation from sin, apart from any works or deeds, just by faith, then how can he loose that gift by doing something good or bad? Your deeds are not either sin or not sin. Your deeds in the earth are what you sow to others. You will reap what you sow. There is no law telling you what to sow. If you sow love or a form of love then you have exprssed God in the earth. If you sow hate, and evil, and destruction in the earth you will receive what you sow in return. Hating someone kills your insides. Hating and all destructive thoughts cause blockages of free flowing love energy within you and causes the energy to be blocked up or discordant, causing sickness and dis-ease within.
You say sin is covered and sin is not imputed and blessed is the man whose sin is not imputed but you don't believe you are perfect. Jesus gave his life for your perfection unto God! But you choose to remain in sin by maybe making a mistake and doing something you believe to be wrong.
There is no list of sins you must make them up on your own. You are the judge of yourself before God. If you judge yourself as dirty or in sin or having sin or doing sins that you don't even know about you have denied your salvation in Christ and pronounced yourself as guilty under your own law of works!!
I will not condemn you, I see you as a perfect child of God through the words spoken by Jesus and given to us for complete salvation.
Everything God has given to me and all others who believe, he has given you the same. But to have a pure mind of love you must believe you are sin free! Bless you, TK
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,11:04) theo The northern ten tribes, kingdom of Israel, were invaded by the Assyrians in BC 722; taking captive and apparently never returned, hence they are referred to as the ten lost tribes.
The southern kingdom, kingdom of Judah, faced the same fate in BC 606 by the Babylonians, however, they were allowed to return after 70 years.
But, with the invasion in BC 606, began their 7 times more punishment, Lev. 26:18, a total of 2,520 years, after which God had promised to bring them back. He did, and since 1948 Israel has been a nation again. They were scattered all over the earth, but they did not loose their identity.Georg
George,
Yes, but as in every time God restored them, they didn't follow God unreservedly with a whole heart. Most of the population today does not practice anything. Of the ones that do, you have the ultra-orthodox jews, who do not do any work whatsoever, or serve in the military. They study the law you mentioned. Alot of which deals with the old covenant, and the old way of atoning for sin, which they cannot even practice, because God let their temple be destroyed, as a result of them having his son killed, which they believe, as stated in the talmud, was a teacher who did wonders and signs “by magic”. Also God mentioned how they and the lawers were accursed because they made observance of the law paramount to compassion and forgiveness. Funny how God allowed 6 million of them to be slaughtered in WW2, and they cannot decern why. Also God says that even when they try to follow this law, they will fall backward.God knew their malace was ingrained, and their arrogance and pride terminal. Thats why he spoke to them in parables, so they could not understand, and be healed. He explained his teaching to the meek and lowly of heart, but the old covenant keepers and law observers he left in the dark on purpose-
Isaiah 28 13
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 1 Cor. 14.2113 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
The Warning to Jerusalem
14 ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Rom. 9.33 ; 10.11 · 1 Pet. 2.6
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Per'azim, 2 Sam. 5.20 · 1 Chr. 14.11 he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, Josh. 10.10-12 that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
This is about to be fulfilled. They (and America for that matter, but as it is written, it will start in Israel) have strayed away from the law and covenant. They don't even follow the first one, much less the second one, which Jesus says is the way to salvation. Abortion is legal, for the most flimsy of excuses, like the mom is stressed. Idolatry is present, even a large gold statue of elvis next to Jerusalem. Even New Age crap is catching on. The muslim nations are dying for a chance to wipe them out, and tell me- WHY SHOULD GOD PROTECT THEM? I am not being anti sematic, I am just sayin what is happening. there is a remnant who follow Jesus, such as Sid Roth, and to them be blessings and protection, but the rest are ripe for the punishment and wrath to come.
Sorry for the rambling- On to the subject- I am leaning to Theos statement- that the ten commandments were not abolished. The situation in which he summerized the law was in answer to someone who was trying to catch him in speech, to discredit him. He asked him which was the most important, because if he said one of the ten, they would slam him, because it was thought that every part of the law was just as important as the other. But, as in other circumstances, he , by the power of his Father and inpsiration of the holy spirit, gave them an answer that no one could take exception to or contradict. The two he mentioned were not per say even the ten, but did, I believe like Theo said, sum up the 10 and all the prophets too. INCREDIBLE! How could one not believe in him for answers like that? I personally believe even though they are a summation, to me, they make 12 commandments. Perfect. 12 months. 12 in a dozen. 12 tribes of israel. 12 signs of the zodiac. 12 phases of the moon. 12 diciples. And-the elect- 12 thousand times 12 thousand – 144,000. Perfect. Peace and love-Mark
Tim,
I'm not trying to twist you, I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. You give explinations but some are complicated to understand, like Paul letters. And one being responsible to one's own kingdom, and realizing that one is perfect, but then saying that “perfect” isn't perfect. Very confusing.
This is a simpler analogy to me then the ones you have mentioned. My daughter was in freefall when her mom died. She blamed everything on everybody else. She eventually got hooked on cocaine. One day I came home because my neighbor called me and told me my house had been broken into. Long story short, my daughter had broken in and stole everything pawnable. Up to that point, she had made excuses for anything bad she did. And I was telling her before that “you can justify anything you want to, but it still doesn't make it right”, and I told her she needed rules like everyone else, or she would end up dead or devils food or both. You cant tell someone they're perfect and don't need rules, it doesn't make sense. You said the law was in force until John, as Jesus stated, but he ment the old covenant brother. Show me a scripture where Jesus said “You can forget about sin if you believe in me, because you are perfect” .s He tells people they are not even good. Also, I watched that video above, and it does come really close to what you state. So out of curiosity, what in that video do you not agree with? Peace and love-Mark
P.S. During that time with Jess, I was just dying for her to come to her senses and call me and say “I'm sorry” so I could forgive her. I couldn't forgive her until she realized it was bad. She didn't . I called the cops an dtold them how to catch her, and they did, and she has a felony on her record now. But, it was the first time something stuck to her, and I didn't talk to her until she apologised, and I agonized until she did. And guess what, she did. And I forgave her. And she learned and got a little clue about sin and repercussions. That was her baby step up. I believe it works the same way with god. You can't go around and make excuses to sin and get away with it without remorse. god is in agony for the world to realize how far it has fallen and just say “I'm sorry God, help me to do better” and he would. It would THEN be like what you think and God would transform the world. Not for the world to say “we are perfect and do not sin and there is no law to follow since John and Jesus”. It would turn into anarchy with all those Kingdoms of individuals conflicting with each other.It is exactly why the world will be destroyed, because everyone thinks along your line. “We are correct, and we do not have to be sorry for anything, and we call the shots because we do not sin”. I do not agree with the baptist, who kinda think along your vein “once you are saved in Jesus, you are always saved no matter what” IMO that is extreeeeemy dangerous my friend. You could compose a circling 50 page doctorial thesis that makes sinse to the rest of the world , but I will never, ever, believe that.I have the decernment that directs me to read the bible and know the law and realize where I fall short and ask for mercy and help to do better, because anything good in me comes from God. “Only God is Good”, and that's exactly what happens, Praise God. Peace and love-Mark
One mor thing Tim,
If you have reached your “nirvana”, and do not sin because you are free, that is wonderful. If you have reached that level in Jesus then fantastic. But, I cannot see how to bring people to christ telling them “believe in Jesus, and there will be no sin”. I think this is #1 an insult to what real perfection is, which is Jesus (Only God is Good), and #2 a dangerous way of thinking. Peace-Mark
Mark: Please allow me to not make any judgments about your life on earth or your family. Everyone has a path to God to follow. Some will hit low lows before they even think about God some will have everything in the world but peace and happiness before they search for God. IMO, when your soul has exhausted its reason for this trek on earth it will begin to call you home to God. Let me try again to tell you what I believe, I have to be the worlds worst at getting my point across yet this is deep stuff. Please also read my posts with Adam(gallumadi) on the origin of sin, pg9Truth or Tradition. I think. Its interesting.
God is the architect of the human being. At the beginning Man had fallen away from God in his mind/heart, thats the only place you can communicate with God. Man, for reasons we will not go into here had chosen to experience evil or destructive energy when all he had ever known was good/God. He felt in himself bad feelings for the first time, mainly fear which made him afraid of God. The way God had originally created mans mind was with free choice of what to believe, so as to thereby experience as life on earth. He had an idea of how man would react. Man pondered the bad or negative energies he felt which created more negative energies. Man began to make up negative ideas of what God wanted and what would please God because he was now getting mixed signals in his mind of good/and evil. Man created the belief of separation from God which is sin/error. Sin or believing certain things separated him from God, left him feeling lost from a God that never moved from him. Man could have forgiven himself of his wrong choice but God would not usurp mans rights and fix it for him. I believe this to be the fall of man from God.
Man is made in a way that what ever is in his mind or what he believes(love energy being formed) as his truth, draws forth like energy from the universe back into his own single life to be experienced. Man came to earth to create and experience life in duality, or yin and yang or ebb and flow, two sides of each whole to each extreme.
Mans tainted mind of sin or wrong doing had to be changed or he would continue to destruct unto desolation as a civilization of humanity.The law was begged for by the people and so they got laws. Yet the law could only make people do or not do things. They could not be pure or clean of any love blocking energy until the mind was cleansed of errant/sinful/wrong/evil thinking. We were created as bodies of love energy that flow powerfully with pure love energy. Following a rule or a law is never by love. Love offers to follow the law. Any blockage or thoughts apart from love can and will cause a certain amount of blockage of the flow. If a person thinks poorly of himself he will also think poorly of most others. The more one does this the more blocked up and discordant the energy becomes. It will eventually find its way to different parts of the body and start to destroy. Aches and pains first then complete disfunction and must be erradicated.
Rules of how to walk a path is the opposite of love, which is unregulated and unrestricted. God believed so much in mankind that he sent Jesus to tell us the truth and show us who and what we really are. All we have to do is look at him, follow him and accept what he says that we are perfected through him. Wasn't he perfect? Then follow him and you are perfect!!
The reason is Jesus washes away the evil thinking and the wrong thinking and the unworthyness, and the uncleanliness, IN YOUR MIND, with his words. If you find your perfection in what Jesus says then you mind is clear, full of the power of love energy, flowing like a mighty river out to the world to bring back to you the perfection you sent out.
A person with a clean mind, full of the love of God, desiring to share the freedom, along with peace, love, joy, longsuffering, meekness, kindness, gentleness, etc., is not as you say, a dangerous person. It is the person that sees God as harsh, mean, short tempered, no patience, quick to judge, and desiring to destroy anyone who doesn't obey him is the most dangerous person in the world. As he sees his God, so he see's himself. That man will choose to be just like his God.
So if you find a loving God that says he has made you perfect, accept that truth and then let me know how you feel about others!
In this world just know and teach, every human being, that they will become whatever they believe they are right now. If they think of themselves as imperfect in Gods eyes, that is what they will be. They will reap that which they sow! IMO, TK
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,11:04) theo The northern ten tribes, kingdom of Israel, were invaded by the Assyrians in BC 722; taking captive and apparently never returned, hence they are referred to as the ten lost tribes.
The southern kingdom, kingdom of Judah, faced the same fate in BC 606 by the Babylonians, however, they were allowed to return after 70 years.
But, with the invasion in BC 606, began their 7 times more punishment, Lev. 26:18, a total of 2,520 years, after which God had promised to bring them back. He did, and since 1948 Israel has been a nation again. They were scattered all over the earth, but they did not loose their identity.Georg
Georg….the seven times more punishment speaks to the nation of Israel,however the tribal distinction eg.Napthali,Dan, and Rueben,etc…numbering 11 possible 12 to this day still remains un Identified and, it is this distinction that will define Israel including the priestly tribes of Levi,benjimen and Judah in the last days….Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 18 2011,21:11) Irene: Are you saying that that in your opinion, the New Testament, where Jesus makes no distinction between Jew,Gentile,Bond,Free,Male,or Female or any person that believes, is actually a covenant that witholds the spirit from certain people, IE: Israel or Jews? How about races of people? Colors? I believe the New Covenant of Christ from God is for all the world, for all mankind, for all who believe, for all who accept and for WHOSOEVER will believe the truth of Jesus! I hope You are wrong. If we are not in the old covenant anymore the law is fulfilled and finished. Jesus established the new.
When people that believed they were under the law asked Jesus questions about the law he answered them as to the law. They had to make their own choice whether to continue to follow the law or accept the free gift of Jesus from God. Everyone must make that choice.
You quote scriptures of saving grace and gifts of God, not of works or deeds lest any man should boast. In other words a man can't boast of a gift he received freely without doing anything but believing. If he received the gift of salvation from sin, apart from any works or deeds, just by faith, then how can he loose that gift by doing something good or bad? Your deeds are not either sin or not sin. Your deeds in the earth are what you sow to others. You will reap what you sow. There is no law telling you what to sow. If you sow love or a form of love then you have exprssed God in the earth. If you sow hate, and evil, and destruction in the earth you will receive what you sow in return. Hating someone kills your insides. Hating and all destructive thoughts cause blockages of free flowing love energy within you and causes the energy to be blocked up or discordant, causing sickness and dis-ease within.
You say sin is covered and sin is not imputed and blessed is the man whose sin is not imputed but you don't believe you are perfect. Jesus gave his life for your perfection unto God! But you choose to remain in sin by maybe making a mistake and doing something you believe to be wrong.
There is no list of sins you must make them up on your own. You are the judge of yourself before God. If you judge yourself as dirty or in sin or having sin or doing sins that you don't even know about you have denied your salvation in Christ and pronounced yourself as guilty under your own law of works!!
I will not condemn you, I see you as a perfect child of God through the words spoken by Jesus and given to us for complete salvation.
Everything God has given to me and all others who believe, he has given you the same. But to have a pure mind of love you must believe you are sin free! Bless you, TK
Tim! How did you get out of my post, that certain people are not under the New Covenant? I simple gave you the new Covenant.
Jesus fulfilled the Law of Scarifies. He still gave us the great Commandment to follow. That has not been nailed to the cross.
But being under Jesus Blood which is the New Covenant Sin is not imputed to us. John tells us if we think we don't sin the truth is not in us…..That might be confusing to you, but all we have to do if we sin, to go to the Throne of God and our sin is forgiven, no other animal scarify needed. That was the Old Covenant and part of the Ten Commandments…..As far as Faith and grace is concerned, Faith is dead without works…..If you read on in Ephesians 2:7-10 it tells you that. And I do not remain in sin. However I know that in this flesh I will not be perfect…..But in my mind I know where I belong…..Unfortunately Satan is still in this world, and some will be so righteous they cannot see the beggar and meek that we should be…Lazarus only seen his mistake when it was to late….I hope that some that read this will come to their senses before it is to late……….Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I believe all that is written about sin is hard to understand. Since I am old (72) I really don't have many problems with what Paul is saying….Only once in awhile I find myself thinking wrongly, but when that happens God's Holy Spirit is in me and tells me to say ” I am sorry God.” In a twinkling of the eye I am in His grace again…..What a great God we have to send His only begotten Son, so we can life…..
Peace and Love IreneQuote (mikeangel @ Jan. 18 2011,22:50) One mor thing Tim, If you have reached your “nirvana”, and do not sin because you are free, that is wonderful. If you have reached that level in Jesus then fantastic. But, I cannot see how to bring people to christ telling them “believe in Jesus, and there will be no sin”. I think this is #1 an insult to what real perfection is, which is Jesus (Only God is Good), and #2 a dangerous way of thinking. Peace-Mark
Mark! You are right. All have fallen short of the glory of God…..Peace and Love Irene
To all: Without pointing fingers or declaring whose right or whose wrong lets take a look at something that maybe we can agree on.
Does anybody on this site believe in the law of sowing and reaping? I don't like to call it a law because a law or command tends to have rewards or punishment. But like the laws of nature it has always been! Reaping what you sow is the absolute fair and balanced way to live ones life. No rules, just, what you give out to others is what you receive unto yourself! This is perfection to me. When a person makes accusations towards another of being evil or short of Gods expectations, or calling them anything that degrades or is destructive, those same accusations only have true effect upon the person administering the destruction. Those who have great understanding in the scriptures and are able to use those scriptures mostly out of context to degrade and destroy another will face much destruction in their lives.
I went to church when I was young and they said, come to Jesus for forgiveness of your sin! So, eventually I came to Jesus and have received forgiveness of my sin. I have no sin because Jesus took my sin away. I believed Jesus saved me from sin? If so, I have no sin. If you accuse me of being a sinner or having sin you are denying what Jesus did for me. You would be setting youself above Christ, denying what he said and making your own declaration.
A christian is to be Christ like. To be Christ like is to be free from sin. There is no law that governs Christ. Christ is freeflowing love. Christ is mental perfection. Whosoever flows with love like Christ, is Christian. Whosoever wars with words and points fingers and makes accusations calling others imperfect before God will reap their rewards. All of you on this site are perfect, sin free, sons of God through the work of Jesus. If you don't believe it you will not experience it in your life. If you believe you will receive! If you believe you have fallen short of the glory of God then you have. Don't declare that on others. If you believe you cannot live without sin, you will live in sin! If you believe you are imperfect before God then you are imperfect. Stand up like a man and say what is. Thank you God for trying to cleanse me and make me whole, But you failed and I am still a dirty sinner. Stop playing religious games. YOU ARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE GOD HAS MADE YOU! God Bless all, TK
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 17 2011,22:51) Hi Tim, Please explain for us all here how your belief differs from (which this video shows) 'new age philosophy'?
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Bump for TimQuote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,14:37) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 18 2011,21:11) Irene: Are you saying that that in your opinion, the New Testament, where Jesus makes no distinction between Jew,Gentile,Bond,Free,Male,or Female or any person that believes, is actually a covenant that witholds the spirit from certain people, IE: Israel or Jews? How about races of people? Colors? I believe the New Covenant of Christ from God is for all the world, for all mankind, for all who believe, for all who accept and for WHOSOEVER will believe the truth of Jesus! I hope You are wrong. If we are not in the old covenant anymore the law is fulfilled and finished. Jesus established the new.
When people that believed they were under the law asked Jesus questions about the law he answered them as to the law. They had to make their own choice whether to continue to follow the law or accept the free gift of Jesus from God. Everyone must make that choice.
You quote scriptures of saving grace and gifts of God, not of works or deeds lest any man should boast. In other words a man can't boast of a gift he received freely without doing anything but believing. If he received the gift of salvation from sin, apart from any works or deeds, just by faith, then how can he loose that gift by doing something good or bad? Your deeds are not either sin or not sin. Your deeds in the earth are what you sow to others. You will reap what you sow. There is no law telling you what to sow. If you sow love or a form of love then you have exprssed God in the earth. If you sow hate, and evil, and destruction in the earth you will receive what you sow in return. Hating someone kills your insides. Hating and all destructive thoughts cause blockages of free flowing love energy within you and causes the energy to be blocked up or discordant, causing sickness and dis-ease within.
You say sin is covered and sin is not imputed and blessed is the man whose sin is not imputed but you don't believe you are perfect. Jesus gave his life for your perfection unto God! But you choose to remain in sin by maybe making a mistake and doing something you believe to be wrong.
There is no list of sins you must make them up on your own. You are the judge of yourself before God. If you judge yourself as dirty or in sin or having sin or doing sins that you don't even know about you have denied your salvation in Christ and pronounced yourself as guilty under your own law of works!!
I will not condemn you, I see you as a perfect child of God through the words spoken by Jesus and given to us for complete salvation.
Everything God has given to me and all others who believe, he has given you the same. But to have a pure mind of love you must believe you are sin free! Bless you, TK
Tim! How did you get out of my post, that certain people are not under the New Covenant? I simple gave you the new Covenant.
Jesus fulfilled the Law of Scarifies. He still gave us the great Commandment to follow. That has not been nailed to the cross.
But being under Jesus Blood which is the New Covenant Sin is not imputed to us. John tells us if we think we don't sin the truth is not in us…..That might be confusing to you, but all we have to do if we sin, to go to the Throne of God and our sin is forgiven, no other animal scarify needed. That was the Old Covenant and part of the Ten Commandments…..As far as Faith and grace is concerned, Faith is dead without works…..If you read on in Ephesians 2:7-10 it tells you that. And I do not remain in sin. However I know that in this flesh I will not be perfect…..But in my mind I know where I belong…..Unfortunately Satan is still in this world, and some will be so righteous they cannot see the beggar and meek that we should be…Lazarus only seen his mistake when it was to late….I hope that some that read this will come to their senses before it is to late……….Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I believe all that is written about sin is hard to understand. Since I am old (72) I really don't have many problems with what Paul is saying….Only once in awhile I find myself thinking wrongly, but when that happens God's Holy Spirit is in me and tells me to say ” I am sorry God.” In a twinkling of the eye I am in His grace again…..What a great God we have to send His only begotten Son, so we can life…..
Peace and Love Irene
Amen Irene, Amen. Peace-MarkBut Tim,
1. With out the law, how would we know what perfect is?
2. I am not perfect, but, thanks to Jesus (what Irene posted), I am forgiven.
3. What about the person who believes you , and is an alcholic, and is led to believe they can drink wine like Jesus, but is the start of a drinking binge where they kill someone driving or beat their wife?
4. What about the people who are innocent but get cancer anyway?
5. Can you explain how your beliefs differ from Ed's video? I asked you before and you didn't answer. If you would be so kind.Peace and love-Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Jan. 19 2011,23:52) But Tim,
1. With out the law, how would we know what perfect is?
2. I am not perfect, but, thanks to Jesus (what Irene posted), I am forgiven.
3. What about the person who believes you , and is an alcholic, and is led to believe they can drink wine like Jesus, but is the start of a drinking binge where they kill someone driving or beat their wife?
4. What about the people who are innocent but get cancer anyway?
5. Can you explain how your beliefs differ from Ed's video? I asked you before and you didn't answer. If you would be so kind.Peace and love-Mark
Mark: If you don't know what perfect is….how do you know you are not perfect??We know through scriptures that the law could not make one perfect!
A law of what not to do or say or think can never make a person perfect as of a clean mind. Whatever your mind thinks is what you believe you are! Love cannot flow freely from an unclean, imperfect mind. The annointed power of God is love which eminates from each individual to bring forth the circumstances of their life. If love cannot flow your mind will bring forth what it believes/fears. If the mind fears sickness, death, disease, hate, and all forms of destruction that is what it will bring forth as their experiences of life.
Fear is negative faith. Fear is faith in destruction or fearing something one doesn't want. What you project you draw to you, good or evil!
What are you forgiven of? Sin? If you believe you are forgiven of sin then you believe you are clean and perfect. If you believe that you remain in sin or return to believeing in sin you are an unclean sinner by faith. Why is that so hard to accept?
There are lots of people that don't believe me who go on drinking binges and maybe kill someone driving or beat their wife. There are many that do the same that don't drink. Some do pharmaceuticals and do the same. This is not new. A law never stopped anyone from doing anything!! We have thousands of laws on earth. Why no peace? Peace has to start in the mind and can never be from a command, or it is not love driven.
Here is the truth. If anyone has the truth of God in them, and is forgiven, cleansed, ordained, and made perfect for service of God(or administering Love) then the fruits of Love are what he will give out. Whether he is on something or not he will express the love of the Spirit within if it be God or an unclean mind, imperfect, evil driven, full of degradation if it be from religious misrepresentation of God.
There is only truth/God and untruth/religion! Light & Dark! Everyone will react to that which is dominate within them. But peace must start with a clean, forgiven mind. Then given out to the world.
What about cancer? It is a form of death. It is not of life/God. It is discordant energies with rampant cell destruction causing imbalance and blockage of love energy therby eventual death. Any and all sickness is premature death. Jesus sent all his disciples and the 70 appointees out to teach the gospel of the Kingdom and heal all those with sickness that would believe.
I don't know how you get cancer! I know how to be healed from cancer. Eat and drink life three times a day and rest. A tree that is young has shallow roots and a storm can tear it out if it doesn't seek help from others. Once a tree is completely established even a strong storm cannot tear it out.I do not watch anything Ed attempts to test me with.
Peace to you, TK
Tim
I watched it, and in it the man states things that are amazingly close to what you profess. Also close to what the unitarians believe. Phycics, astrology, mediums, angel worshp etc. etc. are all condoned because there is no law to follow, you are your own rulesetter/King of your own kingdom, like you say. In short, exactly what I have heard you profess. Here is my differance in short:
One of the main thing that my savior did was to give me a prayer to God that makes praying easy. I dont have to think of everything to say or worry about forgetting something or rattle on like the pagans because God already knows what I need before I ask. But yesterday in the truck going down the road, like I do most everyday, I said it, and afterwards I thought about how much it seems to conflict with you.
In the Gospel of Matthew (6:9-13), New American Bible translation
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
and forgive us the wrong we have done
as we forgive those who wrong us.
Subject us not to the trial
but deliver us from the evil one.How can it possibly be if it is as you say? Why doesn't he say “believe in me and you will be perfect”, instead of forgive us our sins? He gave us this prayer, and knew we would have it after he ascended. If it is as you say we are perfect and do not need forgiveness because there is no sin in one's own kingdom.
Why does he say “Thy kingdom come” instead of “You be the king of your kingdom” He clearly also says for you to ask God for HIS will to be done, not your's. He also tells one to forgive others,in cojunction with being forgiven for your own sins, perpetually, which is not in line with your “do as you want in your own kingdom because you are perfect” philosophy. And lastly, he says to asked to be delivered from the evil one. Not evil thoughts. Not evil doubts, clearly a evil deity, the “evil one” who you say doesn't exist. You will no doubt say that the interpretations are skewed, and the meaning fits in well with yours, but is the whole world that has prayed this prayer for 20 centurys, and every Christian God fearing person on the planet, wrong? Also how is that Ed's test, he didn't make that video, it is by someone stating a belief that is clearly a echo of yours seemingly. I would think that you would welcome the comparison. If you came up with this line of thinking from thousands of hours of thinking, then you should be thrilled that simultaniously others adopted the same thinking! What a coincidence! Peace to you too-MarkAlso if God is not punishing , or ever mean, or never does anything to melt peoples impuritys off, why does Jesus say to pray that you not be subjected to the trial?What about Job? Wouldn't God putting people to the test through trials be against the Perfect no dis-ease no worry, nothing bad because you are perfect thinking? Why wouldn't he say “once you reach the state of perfection, you will be perfect until you die and not tested”? Why isn't anything like this anywhere in the bible? Peace and Love-Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Jan. 20 2011,22:50) Tim I watched it, and in it the man states things that are amazingly close to what you profess. Also close to what the unitarians believe. Phycics, astrology, mediums, angel worshp etc. etc. are all condoned because there is no law to follow, you are your own rulesetter/King of your own kingdom, like you say. In short, exactly what I have heard you profess. Here is my differance in short:
One of the main thing that my savior did was to give me a prayer to God that makes praying easy. I dont have to think of everything to say or worry about forgetting something or rattle on like the pagans because God already knows what I need before I ask. But yesterday in the truck going down the road, like I do most everyday, I said it, and afterwards I thought about how much it seems to conflict with you.
In the Gospel of Matthew (6:9-13), New American Bible translation
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
and forgive us the wrong we have done
as we forgive those who wrong us.
Subject us not to the trial
but deliver us from the evil one.How can it possibly be if it is as you say? Why doesn't he say “believe in me and you will be perfect”, instead of forgive us our sins? He gave us this prayer, and knew we would have it after he ascended. If it is as you say we are perfect and do not need forgiveness because there is no sin in one's own kingdom.
Why does he say “Thy kingdom come” instead of “You be the king of your kingdom” He clearly also says for you to ask God for HIS will to be done, not your's. He also tells one to forgive others,in cojunction with being forgiven for your own sins, perpetually, which is not in line with your “do as you want in your own kingdom because you are perfect” philosophy. And lastly, he says to asked to be delivered from the evil one. Not evil thoughts. Not evil doubts, clearly a evil deity, the “evil one” who you say doesn't exist. You will no doubt say that the interpretations are skewed, and the meaning fits in well with yours, but is the whole world that has prayed this prayer for 20 centurys, and every Christian God fearing person on the planet, wrong? Also how is that Ed's test, he didn't make that video, it is by someone stating a belief that is clearly a echo of yours seemingly. I would think that you would welcome the comparison. If you came up with this line of thinking from thousands of hours of thinking, then you should be thrilled that simultaniously others adopted the same thinking! What a coincidence! Peace to you too-Mark
Mike: In my opinion Ed has tried to put a label on me from day one. I feel that if I wear a label of any sort it will keep some people from maybe hearing something good.I say the Kingdom of God is come and is here when most everyone else says it will come someday. The lords prayer says it is come.
I say Gods will(his word, Jesus) be done on earth(no rapture or removal of believers) as(or at the same time as) it is done in heaven(within the human being where God and Jesus live).
Give us everyday the true (truth) food or bread of Christ, and forgive us (cleansed w/no sin) AS OR AT THE SAME TIME AS WE FORGIVE OTHERS! (In other words we are forgiven as we forgive others!!)(sowing and reaping)
Lead us not into temptation(don't throw evil at us to test us) but deliver us from evil (save us from death, pain, sin, sickness and all forms of destruction)Please look up John14:23…hold to his words and he and the father will come and make their abode/home/temple in us….
John15:3…Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken…..V7…If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you ask what ye will….v16…Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you…..V22…if I had not come and spoken to them (Jewish hierarchy) THEY HAD NOT SIN, but now (they say they know the truth and that they are in sin) they have no cloke or cover for their sin….John17:17…Sanctifiy them through thy truth, thy word is truth….v20…Neither pray I for these alone(disciples) but also for them that believe on me through their(disciples) word….
These scriptures are all Jesus talking not Tim! I just believe him!!
Since I have no idea what Eds video says I would guess that I came up with the information myself over the years if it aligns with the video.
If it aligns I heard it from God!! Please don't deny what Jesus says. I mean nothing but what he says I am! His words are life. Bless you, TKQuote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 17 2011,20:52) Irene: Everything Jesus did for all mankind is so that you can recognize that Jesus paid it all for you to be perfect in the eyes of God. He did the work, will you believe the gift? If your perfection is by faith in what Jesus did then you could only be imperfect if you decide to dis-believe what Jesus did for us. Perfection by faith/a sinner by rejection of the truth from Jesus. If you are in sin, or are a sinner, or believe you sin(?) occasionally, you can have no part with God. There is no sin in God. Just believe Jesus did it all for you!! If Paul says I do what I should not, and don't do what I should to do…..then why do you follow Paul? Maybe you should stick to believing your redeemer, Jesus the Christ. And why choose to believe yourself to sinful death and destruction. The 15th Chap of John if read hearing and believing will cleanse and make whole the believer and leave God/Jesus/and the holy Spirit dwelling inside of you. But you must believe the purification of yourself before you will recognize them within.
I pray that you just be able to see your perfection unto God from Jesus! God bless you, TK
Oh BOY OH BOY!!! ! What you are doing us judging!!!! That alone shows me you are not perfect….I gave you good Scriptures which you ignore. Yes, Jesus paid for all of our sins. But to say that now we are perfect in this flesh and blood is taking it to far… Paul gives us an example of how He sees it. And I agree with Him…I asked you why do we have a Mediator???Which you ignored too…The truth is that in our minds we live for God, but the flesh is not perfect…You also ignore the New Covenant and the great Commandments Jesus gave us….We are not without Law…Jesus says so… And I believe Him….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2011,22:09) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 17 2011,22:51) Hi Tim, Please explain for us all here how your belief differs from (which this video shows) 'new age philosophy'?
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Bump for Tim
Ed! I just listened to this, and it is close to what Tim is believing…That is so dangerous to say the least. To think that Hitler is in Heaven!!!!! i think all we can do for Tim, is pray for Him…
Will you do that?
Peace and Love IreneIrene: What would you pray and ask God to do for me? Would you ask God to show me that I am really not saved? Would you ask God to show me I'm not perfect and even though Jesus died for our sin we are still sinners? Would you pray to God and ask him to make me
disbelieve what Jesus did for us all? Maybe a prayer like, Oh,God, please help Tim to recognize he is a sinner and not perfect. Please show him the error in believing what your son Jesus actually says and pay more attention to Paul. Help him to see his darkness and sin. Let him know that he is a dangerous liar because he claims that through Jesus he has no sin. Help him to see his darkness. He thinks your son Jesus died for all mankind and his own personal
perfection. Please show him how dangerous that belief could be. Please stop him from teaching pureness of mind and freeflowing love unto humanity in the name of Jesus. We know we must have sickness and disease and death. Please stop him from expounding life and freedom in love. Doesn't he know that if everybody began to love one another and forgive one another that there would be world peace?
I would ask you please don't pray your hellfire down for me. I have never done anything to you. If love and sinless freedom through Jesus is not the gospel for you, please don't hate me. TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 21 2011,18:54) Irene: What would you pray and ask God to do for me? Would you ask God to show me that I am really not saved? Would you ask God to show me I'm not perfect and even though Jesus died for our sin we are still sinners? Would you pray to God and ask him to make me disbelieve what Jesus did for us all? Maybe a prayer like, Oh,God, please help Tim to recognize he is a sinner and not perfect. Please show him the error in believing what your son Jesus actually says and pay more attention to Paul. Help him to see his darkness and sin. Let him know that he is a dangerous liar because he claims that through Jesus he has no sin. Help him to see his darkness. He thinks your son Jesus died for all mankind and his own personal
perfection. Please show him how dangerous that belief could be. Please stop him from teaching pureness of mind and freeflowing love unto humanity in the name of Jesus. We know we must have sickness and disease and death. Please stop him from expounding life and freedom in love. Doesn't he know that if everybody began to love one another and forgive one another that there would be world peace?
I would ask you please don't pray your hellfire down for me. I have never done anything to you. If love and sinless freedom through Jesus is not the gospel for you, please don't hate me. TK
Timi think you got mix up,
first Christ did not die for the sins of all men;ONLY FOR THE REPENDED ONES
second God s Love is based on us fulfilling his will,OBEY IS WILL NOT YOUR.wen you pray ,most of us pray for the things related to them ,That is correct,and pray for God s protection ,from the wicket ones,
as for me I wish that we all could be brothers and sisters ,but this is not POSSIBLE yet,
and a miss trust still in this world ,and until we be in the first resurrection or after the second resurrection were only true brothers and sisters will remain ,
we just have to forgive each other until then.
Pierre
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