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Hi Keith,
I am sure Ptr775 won't go away. Many cannot help themselves despite what the ministry tells them.
I have not come to the place where I would put Ron in the same boat as Koresh or anything like that – but Ron is a VERY cruel man.
It is not until you leave that you realise this.
First of all, he writes 2 books – one of which tells us to look at the SIGNS he has written about, that these SIGNS coming to pass in the TIMING he specified PROVES he is God's Final Witness.
When timeline 1 failed, he turned it all around on his believers – suddenly telling us NOT to look at the signs, and accused us of looking at things physically instead of spiritually. It was mental and spiritual torture – I do not believe for one minute however, any of this will become physical.
In saying that though, I will be extremely surprised if at the end of all this some will not have committed suicide.
You know what the saddest thing in all this is? His books, interviews and sermons were so clear cut. He was so confident, and at the same time so humble. Everything he said made sense, and it was easy to believe God was 'calling' us to this knowledge.
It was to be by RON'S PROPHECIES COMING TO PASS EXACTLY AS HE STATED, that would (I believed) once and for all get rid of all the confusion out here in religion. That is WHY RON'S BOOKS WERE WRITTEN!!
Finally, we would know who to listen to.
Finally, we would know the truth.
Finally, we would know what to do.
Finally, Jesus was coming back!!But, his failure of 2 timelines now – he has not kept his word, and continues to lay claim to being the Witness, something he has no right to.
This has led to more confusion out there – as people who are in PKG, people who have left, and people who love PKG members and are worried for them – well, it is creating heartbreak and more confusion.
When presented with EVIDENCE that Ron is FALSE (by his own words, and by the Bible in Duet) – all a member can say is 'that we are blind', that 'we are AntiChrist', and that we are not 'called' – what about addressing the facts about Ron's false prophecies, and his broken words? What about ALL the errors now obvious in his book that I have outlined? They can not be addressed however, because of the 50th 'truth' and God 'putting things in their minds' – but fact is, the book is WRONG as I have shown.
It is very sad indeed.
You see, EVERYONE can think God has put things 'in their mind' – a Catholic, a Protestant, a Jew, a Buddhist etc etc – but who is RIGHT?
Ron said PROOF WAS COMING THAT HE WAS RIGHT, AND THAT GOD WOULD PROVE WHO HE WAS WORKING THROUGH BY EVERYTHING RON STATED COMING TO PASS.
Well, it hasn't – Ron is false.
People are hanging on to Ron for a multitude of reasons – a few I have raised here.
None of this will end well for the members, but thankfully, there are few.
I personally am looking forward to Wayne & Chris, Nathan & Sharna talking to me again – I miss them terribly (if they talk to me again).
I am not against any PKG member, I am frustrated at them – yes. But I miss the ones I knew, and know all to well what they think of me (as Ptr775 has indicated).
It hurts yes, but I am now moving forward – with love in my heart, with a jump in my step – feeling the resemblence of joy return to my being.
PS. Are you sure you want to welcome me? I am not short of words!!
Quote (Kirrily @ Aug. 06 2009,01:19) Hi Keith, I am sure Ptr775 won't go away. Many cannot help themselves despite what the ministry tells them.
I have not come to the place where I would put Ron in the same boat as Koresh or anything like that – but Ron is a VERY cruel man.
It is not until you leave that you realise this.
First of all, he writes 2 books – one of which tells us to look at the SIGNS he has written about, that these SIGNS coming to pass in the TIMING he specified PROVES he is God's Final Witness.
When timeline 1 failed, he turned it all around on his believers – suddenly telling us NOT to look at the signs, and accused us of looking at things physically instead of spiritually. It was mental and spiritual torture – I do not believe for one minute however, any of this will become physical.
In saying that though, I will be extremely surprised if at the end of all this some will not have committed suicide.
You know what the saddest thing in all this is? His books, interviews and sermons were so clear cut. He was so confident, and at the same time so humble. Everything he said made sense, and it was easy to believe God was 'calling' us to this knowledge.
It was to be by RON'S PROPHECIES COMING TO PASS EXACTLY AS HE STATED, that would (I believed) once and for all get rid of all the confusion out here in religion. That is WHY RON'S BOOKS WERE WRITTEN!!
Finally, we would know who to listen to.
Finally, we would know the truth.
Finally, we would know what to do.
Finally, Jesus was coming back!!But, his failure of 2 timelines now – he has not kept his word, and continues to lay claim to being the Witness, something he has no right to.
This has led to more confusion out there – as people who are in PKG, people who have left, and people who love PKG members and are worried for them – well, it is creating heartbreak and more confusion.
When presented with EVIDENCE that Ron is FALSE (by his own words, and by the Bible in Duet) – all a member can say is 'that we are blind', that 'we are AntiChrist', and that we are not 'called' – what about addressing the facts about Ron's false prophecies, and his broken words? What about ALL the errors now obvious in his book that I have outlined? They can not be addressed however, because of the 50th 'truth' and God 'putting things in their minds' – but fact is, the book is WRONG as I have shown.
It is very sad indeed.
You see, EVERYONE can think God has put things 'in their mind' – a Catholic, a Protestant, a Jew, a Buddhist etc etc – but who is RIGHT?
Ron said PROOF WAS COMING THAT HE WAS RIGHT, AND THAT GOD WOULD PROVE WHO HE WAS WORKING THROUGH BY EVERYTHING RON STATED COMING TO PASS.
Well, it hasn't – Ron is false.
People are hanging on to Ron for a multitude of reasons – a few I have raised here.
None of this will end well for the members, but thankfully, there are few.
I personally am looking forward to Wayne & Chris, Nathan & Sharna talking to me again – I miss them terribly (if they talk to me again).
I am not against any PKG member, I am frustrated at them – yes. But I miss the ones I knew, and know all to well what they think of me (as Ptr775 has indicated).
It hurts yes, but I am now moving forward – with love in my heart, with a jump in my step – feeling the resemblence of joy return to my being.
PS. Are you sure you want to welcome me? I am not short of words!!
Hi KirrilyOf course you are welcome.
I still have concerns that based on what you have said, this guy has a lot of power over these people lives.
I know it may not seem to be possible at this time that he could be a David Koresh or Jim Jones, but a false prophet with this kind of influence over time can gain more power and cast over their eyes even deeper deception.
He has given himself untill 2012 now, that is a lot of time to persuade or convince his followers even more that he is true and that he may be led to die for his belief and ask for the lives of those who follow him.
I pray this is only speculation, but I have studied cults and the signs are all there.
Blessings Keith
Hi Keith,
I haven't studied cults at all – so I hope you are wrong!
But there is a LOT to be concerned about that is for sure.
There are just so many layers to all this!
Thanks again, writing things certainly helps me heal – I was in PKG for nearly 2 years – others have been in a LOT longer than me. If it has been this hard for me, I hate to think what it will be like for them.
All anyone can really do is be there for people when all this ends.
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that can be done for current members – anyone who reads what Ptr775 has written would know this. It's just so frustrating though isn't it!!
Sad thing is, they feel frustrated at us because we 'are just so blind and want to ignore the truth'.
I would never dream of calling someone AntiChrist – but for PKG, it is just so easy. Again, I should know, because sadly, I used to do the same.
Hi Kirrily
It is so so sad. Im speechless.
Kieth it is concerning with the ammount of power this man has over them.
How many are there ?
Hi Karmarie,
When I first joined PKG nearly 2 years ago, I think worldwide there were 800 members – but I am only guessing. I imagine that has dwindled somewhat, however he apparently is getting new converts.
Put it this way, in my little group in QLD Australia when I joined, and counting all those that joined (and left subsequently) – there were all up CH, MS, LH, MH, NU, SP, A?, R? and myself – making 9 in total. There was about 12 in NSW, and I think the same in Melbourne – and I think 1 in Perth, and there is 1 in Cairns – thats in the whole of Australia (population about 20 million now I think).
When I left in January this year, there were only 2 left in South East QLD, with I think the 1 left in Cairns. I'm hoping that other areas have experienced the same exodus – but you just don't know.
Ron really isn't reaching that many people now. Like I mentioned previously, I told approximately 70 people about Ron, handed out copies of his books etc. Ron always said they wouldn't believe it UNTIL things began to happen (which first time around was April 2008) – obviously, most people I told were waiting and watching out of couriosity and out of concern for me.
Nothing happened – so they stopped waiting and watching. Sad thing is, anything else that is good the man had to say (and I believe there was a lot – but of course you have to imagine I need to question EVERYTHING now) was subsequently also ignored by all the people I had told.
Ron really does not deserve any attention anymore I feel – the only reason I am giving any attention to him is to share my experiences with others to help me get over this, and at the same time if it stops others getting involved all the better.
I found one of the most painful aspects of their group, is that if you reject Ron, you are rejecting JESUS Himself. Now, that is just pure blasphemy – I just did not see it before. Ron is putting himself right up there NEXT to Jesus. If you doubt Ron, you doubt Jesus. If you reject Ron, you reject Jesus.
That is why Ptr775 called me AntiChrist – I am 'anti' Ron, so they think I am 'anti' Jesus. It really is sick – but you can imagine that sort of fear alone keeping people at PKG. They probably also think I have committed the unpardonable sin, and will burn in gahenna fire – all this, just because Ron's prophecies didn't come true (twice), and I didn't want to keep following him.
It is sad, but I think now the people who are still there know deep down they are wrong, but they stay anyway. The only thing to do is be there for them when this all ends. NOTHING, and I truly mean, NOTHING can be done for them.
I am 36 years old – so not really a spring chicken. I have NEVER experienced ANYTHING like this in my life.
But hey, things like this make you stronger if you do not allow anger to last too long, and be careful not to let bitterness seep in. I think I am doing OK, but I do have bad days!! I am mainly angry at myself for staying after it was proven he was false by the failure of his first timeline. Again, when you invest so much of yourself into a 'man', you just can't imagine he could be wrong. So I followed him into timeline 2, purposely ignoring the evidence.
You also really do not want to face the fact that God is not leading you – THAT is the thing that is TRULY agony (and another reason why I believe most people stay with Ron – they do not want to admit this to themselves).
I guess a good analogy is when you tell a lie, you tell it long enough you end up genuinely believing it. The mind is really an amazing thing.
Interesting too – another quote from Ron's own book:-
GFW: Page 26/27, Lies: “Lying is the outcome of people being right in their own eyes and stubbornly holding to their own viewpoint, regardless of EVIDENCE to the contrary.”
If only he would take his own advice!
Quote When I left in January this year, there were only 2 left in South East QLD, with I think the 1 left in Cairns. I'm hoping that other areas have experienced the same exodus – but you just don't know. I mean this was for QLD alone – I am not sure about the other areas of Australia now that I have left.
Hi Kirrily
I read his books, I was convinced , I gave his book to people to read.I stuck up for him on the internet, and was amazed when I turned on the tv and the stockmarkets were heading downhill just when he said they would. When he said something would happen by a certain date to prove he was who he said he was, and nothing happened I still had hope, thinking his error was in his date, still waiting for something soon to happen. But where I started to change is when I listened to one of his sermons, and he sounded different to what Id imagined, and he was saying that anyone who mocks him out here will soon be punished. And he was laughing about it. I think I backed away about then. But I can imagine how it would be for you all, the disapointment would be awfull. Like you said, I also thought that I was called out and being led by God but then realized God hadnt. Such an awfull letdown! I didnt know what to believe and started to lose faith, I became angry and lost. Its taken me a long time to get back to where I was. Well it seemed like a long time. I really feel for anyone there. And glad to hear that people like yourself are ok.
I am worried where Ronald will go with this.
The remaining members would be so vulnerable to anything Ronald says.
Quote (Kirrily @ Aug. 06 2009,16:25) Hi all, Thought I would share another piece I posted on Mike's blog:-
I know I said this last week, but again, why does God’s most formidable prophet of all time feel the need to look at what his critics are saying? Why does he care?
Yes Ron, I will admit I have been miserable – let me explain……You see, on the 17 April, 2008 (USA time) – I was sick to the stomach as I turned on the Television expecting some ‘powerful event’ that was newsworthy, beginning the process of destruction of 1/3 plant life and tens of thousands of deaths over a period of 45-90 days.
I had handed out your business cards and warned as many loved ones as I could. I had handed out your books, as you told us too, as possible. People had asked me about the ‘truths’ and I shared with them God’s plan of salvation, His love toward us, His correction toward us, and how to prepare as best as possible – both physically and spiritually for what was about to hit this planet.
I told them of the Sabbath, His Holy Days, that Christmas was nothing but a pagan festival. People were very respectful of my beliefs, and had the attitude of ‘wait and see’ if you turned out to be true – by what you were saying coming to pass exactly as stated by you. They were not laughing at you – at least, not then.
When questioned, I always turned them to your books or to your sermons (or both) as you taught us.
Your prophesy of Tribulation Timeline Number One did not occur. Then you told us we should take a good hard long look at ourselves for being disappointed this destruction did not take place. (We weren’t disappointed about that Ron, we were beginning to be disappointed that perhaps we were following false prophet).
I waited until the specified 45-90 days for continuing destruction of the effects of the first trumpet blown, and ‘if by Pentecost’ 2008 these things did not come to pass, well, you would declare yourself a false prophet.
Up until this time, EVERY DAY I lived, I did not know what destructive event would take place – believing it was imminent. This creates a lot of internal stress. All the while, trying to grow in your knowledge of Godly behaviour, and desire to learn of His ways, so you can be obedient. Your very survival depending on it, but looking at yourself through a microscope hoping that was not your only reason for being obedient. Wanting with all your heart to be open to God, and allow Him to mold and fashion you (whilst watching TV with your heart pounding waiting for the Thunders to increase their destructive power, or nukes to be detonated in the USA). You told us it would be like the show ‘Jericho’ – and we wanted to prepare our minds for human suffering, burnt bodies and thinking of how to deal with our pets humanely when the time came. This is only natural, when believing the events you prophesied were going to come to pass.
This is how we lived each day – whilst still trying to function normally in society – work, eat, sleep and for me, trying to be a good wife to my unbelieving husband (who was also waiting and watching).
My friends and family by this time, were extremely concerned. You see Ron, they were watching and waiting too – the ‘worldly’ people were waiting to see if what you had said would come to pass. The thing is Ron, is that these people lumped EVERYTHING taught by you in the one box. The Sabbath and your failed prophecies – both FALSE. The Holy Days, and your failed prophecies – both FALSE. Christmas being pagan, and your failed prophecies – both FALSE. They asked if I was going to go to the Christmas parties now, and would I start to work on Saturdays. What I am saying, is that they believed EVERYTHING you said – was FALSE. Are you beginning to see the damage now Ron? I feel this was especially sad, as you had written the books for the WORLD – so they could see who God was working through. All they could see, was that He was not working through you.
Then however, the 50th truth was ‘revealed’ and I felt a lot better – thinking we had a little more time – my full belief in you, in your position and job was restored. I repented from my unbelief and bad attitude immediately.
December 2008 came and went however, with yet another uneventful blowing of the first trumpet – and now the second timeline did not include the 45-90 day window for the second trumpet.
My whole life revolved around you and your ministry for nearly 2 years. I lived every day with the ‘knowledge’ that was ‘given to me’ that indeed, the end time was here. I decided not to try for a child. I tithed up to 20% of my income, and gave offerings beyond my means to show my ‘Total Resolve’ whilst you were on a cruise (after all, the dollar would be worthless ‘not too far from now’). Meanwhile, Laura was on a shopping spree buying things on 3 years interest free no money down “You won’t have to pay it off after all – it’ll have all crashed by January (2009)”. (I guess Laura made a prophecy too – that also, failed – she said this to me personally during the feast of 2008).
I wanted to be obedient to God’s true end time witness, and I loved you and I loved Laura. I loved Wayne, Chris, Nathan and Sharna and the other members of our little group.
I emailed Wayne constantly, seeking help to overcome my wicked nature – wanting with all my heart to be right with God. I wanted to be the student you told us to be, eager for not only knowledge, but also understanding. I was told this was the way to save myself and all of my family (at least a chance) to surviving through the tribulation, and hopefully with God’s help, grace and guidance enter the millennial reign. I wanted to be the best I could be, so I could love God and show this by obeying Him – hungry for His truth – which I believed was coming from you.
I felt truly blessed that God had ‘called’ me to you and to your knowledge.
I still had the 3 months supply of food, water, warm clothing for the coming nuclear winter (which I purchased before timeline number one) – and I felt I was as prepared as I could be.
My world however, fell apart in late January 2009 when I finally admitted to myself that you were false – one of the most hard decisions of my life. Your book states many things that have not come to pass – not even close. (NB. The economic ‘thunder’ is probably the only thing you could claim – however, this was one of the main things that attracted me to you – I believed, and still do believe the financial crash is yet to happen – and so do MANY, MANY other people – so what makes you any different?) The Bible warns me about false prophets – the Bible tells us to test the prophets – by what they say/prophesy coming to pass EXACTLY as they have stated. If not, they are FALSE and we should NOT be afraid of them (or of their curses!). When we asked you and your ministry about this Scripture, we were told they ‘did not have the truth’ that ‘God was not giving it to them’.
Your own book Ron, says that the timing will be one of the things that validates you as His Witness – nothing of what you have prophesied had come to pass. You are false.
So yes, I have been miserable – my heart has been lost, my mind dismayed, and my bank account a lot smaller – because you have called yourself God’s Final Witness and Prophet for the end time – and I believed you.
I was crushed when it turned out you were false. I had believed God was leading me. I had believed God had led me to you. I believed you were God’s Final Witness, and I believed all your truths – but NOTHING you said would happen, happened. No lie is of the truth – therefore, the truth was not in you. Wh
at was I to do now?7 months after leaving PKG – I am gradually putting my life back together – learning many things of myself, my own nature – and things I need to work towards.
I am turning this whole experience into a positive one – one that has resulted in greater depth of knowledge of myself, both good and bad. A greater empathy and love for my fellow mankind. Greater ability to enter into friendships and other relationships, and a greater desire to learn of God’s ways and be obedient to those ways. I also now have a great desire for a child, to which I hope will be granted. I am now beginning to be able to watch the news without my heart leaping into my mouth!
I have a lot of learning to do – and I am now building my foundation properly, for the first time in my life.
I am preparing my heart, mind and spirit for such learning, and in time – yes, in time – I will learn to trust again.
This is what you call bitter.
This is what you call sick.
This is what you call turning away from God.
This is what you call turning away from the truth.I will let the readers decide.
Ron, sometimes when people mock you, it is out of hurt – as is the case with me. The course of events and my beliefs during the last 2 odd years of my life, have caused me great distress – and most of this was because I believed you, I believed your claims – I believed in your work. Turns out however, that I was wrong – and you are wrong.
I admitted my error, you will not.
Sometimes I do mock you Ron, because your claims now, after the passing of time – 2 failed timelines, numerous failed specified prophecies (no new US President will take office etc, etc, etc) are becoming laughable (but inside I am shocked and deeply saddened). I guess the reason I personally mock you from time to time is therapy – it helps me work through things in some ways.
You see, if someone hurts you, or more so, if your beliefs about someone hurt you – as my beliefs about you have hurt me – sometimes human nature lashes out. I have lashed out – and I think to a great degree, I have had the right to.
My journey continues, and so does yours.
In the end, I am sure I will have the bigger bowl of good fruit – and, in the end Ron, I will be happy to share my bowl with you.
…..
On another matter, PKG always taught us to be STUDENTS, and not TEACHERS (thereby placing yourself above God's ministry as Ptr775 is doing).
I was a sponge, and devoured everything Ron taught me.
I have rejected the messenger, as by Ron's own words – he is false.
He promised to quit by Pentecost 2008 if 'no evidence of clear destruction of 1/3 plant and animal life in USA and into Canda'. He broke his promise, but I kept following him.
(NB. There is an interesting compilation of Ron's contradictions on a site called 'Radio Free – PKG' – definately worth a look)
It is important to note that I was ignorant to Deut. in the Bible where it says how to test a prophet – by what they say coming to pass. I willfilling ignored this scripture for months – putting it out of my mind on purpose, as I WANTED to believe Ron SO BADLY. I WANTED to believe his message, and that Jesus would soon be returning. It was absolutely heartbreaking to finally admit he was false.
Ron prophesied in Gods name, and said it WAS from God, as I have shown. It did not come to pass. Again, by Ron's own standards, and the test that the Bible provides in Duet – he is a false prophet.
For those who ignore the EVIDENCE of his failures, well, I wonder if they will suffer the same curses as the actual false prophet?
I like to share my journey through all this, and be very open – as people can see and learn from my mistakes.
It is also vital to understand the absolute arrogance in the group.
We can see that Ptr775 (I still do not know who is he is) likes to feel he can TEACH (when Ron says not to).
You see, PKG teaches that ONLY GOD CAN MAKE SOMEONE SEE. But the arrogance in the group makes one want to try THEMSELVES to make someone see. Again, Pride – the very aspect PKG teaches against, is the one they themselves are held captive to.
I should know – I had the same attitude of Pride (but you do not recognise it until you leave).
I believe people like Ptr775 refuse to acknowledge the EVIDENCE that Ron is false, because:-
* Where would they go from there?
* It would mean God was never leading them anywhere (Ouch!!)
* They would be WRONG (when Pride MUST be RIGHT!!).I am sure that everyone here can see those characteristics playing out here.
To be brought to nought, as I have (ie. admitting I was WRONG to follow Ron, that God was never leading me, and having the courage to LEAVE even though I did not know what was next – and still don't!) – well, that suddenly brings TRUE humility.
Very important lessons here.
Thank you all for allowing me the opportunity to share my very longwinded story!!
Ptr775 – I did not continue reading your posts after you said I was AntiChrist – I have been hurt enough thankyou.
BTW – does Wayne know you are on this forum? You are not meant to be talking with me anyway, as I am an X Member. If Wayne found out, you would probably be disfellowshipped.
When CH was disfellowshipped from our group in QLD Australia, I have a copy of an email stating we were not to have ANY contact with him whatsoever, which is standard practice I believe in many COG's.
Ptr775, I have noticed you 'bag' people here for giving Ron any attention at all if they don't believe him – well I put to you, why do you give any of us 'blind AntiChrists' any attention? Or are you trying to prove something?
I understand, because over 7 months ago, I was the same.
Food for thought for all I am sure.
Take care all
Greetings K……You are taking this RW phenomonon way to seriously,let us not throw the baby out with the bath water,and make no mistake Iam not interested in furthering RWs ministry…The boldness of his prophesy has been tempered by the failure of them to come pass…His message is still consistant and you should discern and gleen what is obviously correct and dismiss the remainder…Even a broken clock is correct twice a day so do not attribute any events to RW,namely the financial dilema which will get alot worse before the climax….Be attentive and watchfull and ask God for the wisdom to discern and you will be prepared inspite of the RWs of the world…I agree Theodorej, I think it just takes some time to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and then effectively disipher what is right.
There is the challenge!
I have learned through all this where my trust actually was (thought it was in God – but it was in man).
To be honest, I am glad to have learned this lesson.
Thanks Karmarie for your post – we can understand each other.
Bedtime here in Aus – 'night all
Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 07 2009,00:05) Quote (Kirrily @ Aug. 06 2009,16:25) Hi all, Thought I would share another piece I posted on Mike's blog:-
I know I said this last week, but again, why does God’s most formidable prophet of all time feel the need to look at what his critics are saying? Why does he care?
Yes Ron, I will admit I have been miserable – let me explain……You see, on the 17 April, 2008 (USA time) – I was sick to the stomach as I turned on the Television expecting some ‘powerful event’ that was newsworthy, beginning the process of destruction of 1/3 plant life and tens of thousands of deaths over a period of 45-90 days.
I had handed out your business cards and warned as many loved ones as I could. I had handed out your books, as you told us too, as possible. People had asked me about the ‘truths’ and I shared with them God’s plan of salvation, His love toward us, His correction toward us, and how to prepare as best as possible – both physically and spiritually for what was about to hit this planet.
I told them of the Sabbath, His Holy Days, that Christmas was nothing but a pagan festival. People were very respectful of my beliefs, and had the attitude of ‘wait and see’ if you turned out to be true – by what you were saying coming to pass exactly as stated by you. They were not laughing at you – at least, not then.
When questioned, I always turned them to your books or to your sermons (or both) as you taught us.
Your prophesy of Tribulation Timeline Number One did not occur. Then you told us we should take a good hard long look at ourselves for being disappointed this destruction did not take place. (We weren’t disappointed about that Ron, we were beginning to be disappointed that perhaps we were following false prophet).
I waited until the specified 45-90 days for continuing destruction of the effects of the first trumpet blown, and ‘if by Pentecost’ 2008 these things did not come to pass, well, you would declare yourself a false prophet.
Up until this time, EVERY DAY I lived, I did not know what destructive event would take place – believing it was imminent. This creates a lot of internal stress. All the while, trying to grow in your knowledge of Godly behaviour, and desire to learn of His ways, so you can be obedient. Your very survival depending on it, but looking at yourself through a microscope hoping that was not your only reason for being obedient. Wanting with all your heart to be open to God, and allow Him to mold and fashion you (whilst watching TV with your heart pounding waiting for the Thunders to increase their destructive power, or nukes to be detonated in the USA). You told us it would be like the show ‘Jericho’ – and we wanted to prepare our minds for human suffering, burnt bodies and thinking of how to deal with our pets humanely when the time came. This is only natural, when believing the events you prophesied were going to come to pass.
This is how we lived each day – whilst still trying to function normally in society – work, eat, sleep and for me, trying to be a good wife to my unbelieving husband (who was also waiting and watching).
My friends and family by this time, were extremely concerned. You see Ron, they were watching and waiting too – the ‘worldly’ people were waiting to see if what you had said would come to pass. The thing is Ron, is that these people lumped EVERYTHING taught by you in the one box. The Sabbath and your failed prophecies – both FALSE. The Holy Days, and your failed prophecies – both FALSE. Christmas being pagan, and your failed prophecies – both FALSE. They asked if I was going to go to the Christmas parties now, and would I start to work on Saturdays. What I am saying, is that they believed EVERYTHING you said – was FALSE. Are you beginning to see the damage now Ron? I feel this was especially sad, as you had written the books for the WORLD – so they could see who God was working through. All they could see, was that He was not working through you.
Then however, the 50th truth was ‘revealed’ and I felt a lot better – thinking we had a little more time – my full belief in you, in your position and job was restored. I repented from my unbelief and bad attitude immediately.
December 2008 came and went however, with yet another uneventful blowing of the first trumpet – and now the second timeline did not include the 45-90 day window for the second trumpet.
My whole life revolved around you and your ministry for nearly 2 years. I lived every day with the ‘knowledge’ that was ‘given to me’ that indeed, the end time was here. I decided not to try for a child. I tithed up to 20% of my income, and gave offerings beyond my means to show my ‘Total Resolve’ whilst you were on a cruise (after all, the dollar would be worthless ‘not too far from now’). Meanwhile, Laura was on a shopping spree buying things on 3 years interest free no money down “You won’t have to pay it off after all – it’ll have all crashed by January (2009)”. (I guess Laura made a prophecy too – that also, failed – she said this to me personally during the feast of 2008).
I wanted to be obedient to God’s true end time witness, and I loved you and I loved Laura. I loved Wayne, Chris, Nathan and Sharna and the other members of our little group.
I emailed Wayne constantly, seeking help to overcome my wicked nature – wanting with all my heart to be right with God. I wanted to be the student you told us to be, eager for not only knowledge, but also understanding. I was told this was the way to save myself and all of my family (at least a chance) to surviving through the tribulation, and hopefully with God’s help, grace and guidance enter the millennial reign. I wanted to be the best I could be, so I could love God and show this by obeying Him – hungry for His truth – which I believed was coming from you.
I felt truly blessed that God had ‘called’ me to you and to your knowledge.
I still had the 3 months supply of food, water, warm clothing for the coming nuclear winter (which I purchased before timeline number one) – and I felt I was as prepared as I could be.
My world however, fell apart in late January 2009 when I finally admitted to myself that you were false – one of the most hard decisions of my life. Your book states many things that have not come to pass – not even close. (NB. The economic ‘thunder’ is probably the only thing you could claim – however, this was one of the main things that attracted me to you – I believed, and still do believe the financial crash is yet to happen – and so do MANY, MANY other people – so what makes you any different?) The Bible warns me about false prophets – the Bible tells us to test the prophets – by what they say/prophesy coming to pass EXACTLY as they have stated. If not, they are FALSE and we should NOT be afraid of them (or of their curses!). When we asked you and your ministry about this Scripture, we were told they ‘did not have the truth’ that ‘God was not giving it to them’.
Your own book Ron, says that the timing will be one of the things that validates you as His Witness – nothing of what you have prophesied had come to pass. You are false.
So yes, I have been miserable – my heart has been lost, my mind dismayed, and my bank account a lot smaller – because you have called yourself God’s Final Witness and Prophet for the end time – and I believed you.
I was crushed when it turned out you were false. I had believed God was leading me. I h
ad believed God had led me to you. I believed you were God’s Final Witness, and I believed all your truths – but NOTHING you said would happen, happened. No lie is of the truth – therefore, the truth was not in you. What was I to do now?7 months after leaving PKG – I am gradually putting my life back together – learning many things of myself, my own nature – and things I need to work towards.
I am turning this whole experience into a positive one – one that has resulted in greater depth of knowledge of myself, both good and bad. A greater empathy and love for my fellow mankind. Greater ability to enter into friendships and other relationships, and a greater desire to learn of God’s ways and be obedient to those ways. I also now have a great desire for a child, to which I hope will be granted. I am now beginning to be able to watch the news without my heart leaping into my mouth!
I have a lot of learning to do – and I am now building my foundation properly, for the first time in my life.
I am preparing my heart, mind and spirit for such learning, and in time – yes, in time – I will learn to trust again.
This is what you call bitter.
This is what you call sick.
This is what you call turning away from God.
This is what you call turning away from the truth.I will let the readers decide.
Ron, sometimes when people mock you, it is out of hurt – as is the case with me. The course of events and my beliefs during the last 2 odd years of my life, have caused me great distress – and most of this was because I believed you, I believed your claims – I believed in your work. Turns out however, that I was wrong – and you are wrong.
I admitted my error, you will not.
Sometimes I do mock you Ron, because your claims now, after the passing of time – 2 failed timelines, numerous failed specified prophecies (no new US President will take office etc, etc, etc) are becoming laughable (but inside I am shocked and deeply saddened). I guess the reason I personally mock you from time to time is therapy – it helps me work through things in some ways.
You see, if someone hurts you, or more so, if your beliefs about someone hurt you – as my beliefs about you have hurt me – sometimes human nature lashes out. I have lashed out – and I think to a great degree, I have had the right to.
My journey continues, and so does yours.
In the end, I am sure I will have the bigger bowl of good fruit – and, in the end Ron, I will be happy to share my bowl with you.
…..
On another matter, PKG always taught us to be STUDENTS, and not TEACHERS (thereby placing yourself above God's ministry as Ptr775 is doing).
I was a sponge, and devoured everything Ron taught me.
I have rejected the messenger, as by Ron's own words – he is false.
He promised to quit by Pentecost 2008 if 'no evidence of clear destruction of 1/3 plant and animal life in USA and into Canda'. He broke his promise, but I kept following him.
(NB. There is an interesting compilation of Ron's contradictions on a site called 'Radio Free – PKG' – definately worth a look)
It is important to note that I was ignorant to Deut. in the Bible where it says how to test a prophet – by what they say coming to pass. I willfilling ignored this scripture for months – putting it out of my mind on purpose, as I WANTED to believe Ron SO BADLY. I WANTED to believe his message, and that Jesus would soon be returning. It was absolutely heartbreaking to finally admit he was false.
Ron prophesied in Gods name, and said it WAS from God, as I have shown. It did not come to pass. Again, by Ron's own standards, and the test that the Bible provides in Duet – he is a false prophet.
For those who ignore the EVIDENCE of his failures, well, I wonder if they will suffer the same curses as the actual false prophet?
I like to share my journey through all this, and be very open – as people can see and learn from my mistakes.
It is also vital to understand the absolute arrogance in the group.
We can see that Ptr775 (I still do not know who is he is) likes to feel he can TEACH (when Ron says not to).
You see, PKG teaches that ONLY GOD CAN MAKE SOMEONE SEE. But the arrogance in the group makes one want to try THEMSELVES to make someone see. Again, Pride – the very aspect PKG teaches against, is the one they themselves are held captive to.
I should know – I had the same attitude of Pride (but you do not recognise it until you leave).
I believe people like Ptr775 refuse to acknowledge the EVIDENCE that Ron is false, because:-
* Where would they go from there?
* It would mean God was never leading them anywhere (Ouch!!)
* They would be WRONG (when Pride MUST be RIGHT!!).I am sure that everyone here can see those characteristics playing out here.
To be brought to nought, as I have (ie. admitting I was WRONG to follow Ron, that God was never leading me, and having the courage to LEAVE even though I did not know what was next – and still don't!) – well, that suddenly brings TRUE humility.
Very important lessons here.
Thank you all for allowing me the opportunity to share my very longwinded story!!
Ptr775 – I did not continue reading your posts after you said I was AntiChrist – I have been hurt enough thankyou.
BTW – does Wayne know you are on this forum? You are not meant to be talking with me anyway, as I am an X Member. If Wayne found out, you would probably be disfellowshipped.
When CH was disfellowshipped from our group in QLD Australia, I have a copy of an email stating we were not to have ANY contact with him whatsoever, which is standard practice I believe in many COG's.
Ptr775, I have noticed you 'bag' people here for giving Ron any attention at all if they don't believe him – well I put to you, why do you give any of us 'blind AntiChrists' any attention? Or are you trying to prove something?
I understand, because over 7 months ago, I was the same.
Food for thought for all I am sure.
Take care all
Greetings K……You are taking this RW phenomonon way to seriously,let us not throw the baby out with the bath water,and make no mistake Iam not interested in furthering RWs ministry…The boldness of his prophesy has been tempered by the failure of them to come pass…His message is still consistant and you should discern and gleen what is obviously correct and dismiss the remainder…Even a broken clock is correct twice a day so do not attribute any events to RW,namely the financial dilema which will get alot worse before the climax….Be attentive and watchfull and ask God for the wisdom to discern and you will be prepared inspite of the RWs of the world…
What you are saying is not right. So if Mr. Weinland could be right and is like Christ, that is the same then what the Catholics belief of the Pope. He is like Christ too. I hope that you will think twice when you say these things, before you post it. One of my former W.W. C. of God Members, said something like this too. We just should be very careful to make statements what so ever. We could influence some one to join him. And for them, that would be a disaster. I do want to say about Christmas and the Holy Days. if you check out Ancient History you will find that X-mas is indeed a Pagan Holiday. So even though I do not belief that Mr. Weinland is right, some what He is saying is. But I do not belief he is a Witness from God. I never did think so. I was one that was laughing at him. I am glad that K. and others have stopped believing in him.Peace and Love Irene
Hi there,
It took me a while to think of that too – that indeed he was acting like the Pope.
I am not sure Irene as to which comments you say are not right exactly – you see Ron doesn't say he is Jesus, but if you don't believe Ron, he says that you are not believing God/Jesus (the message) – this is common knowledge, for all to see and hear.
When my mother was disfellowshipped, she was also told that because she didn't believe Ron, she didn't believe God/Jesus – was rejecting God Himself. She was then told that she no longer had Gods spirit.
Just a tiny example: GFW: Page 24, first para : “God has given to Jesus Christ the timing for the seals to be opened, and Jesus Christ in turn has given the timing to me.”
So, God gave the 'message' to Jesus, then Jesus gave it to Ron. That has resulted in all this “If you don't believe me, you don't believe God” – again, that is why are current PKG member on this forum is calling me AntiChrist.
They believe if you reject the message (Ron's books/sermons/interviews), then you are rejecting the messenger (God).
This is the way COG-PKG works.
I have seen it over and over again. I am not sure if this is common in other COG groups, when I was a member of ICG (GTA group) there was none of this sort of talk.
I still believe a lot about what Ron taught too – ie. XMas, Easter etc etc.
Have a great day all.
Quote I still believe a lot about what Ron taught too – ie. XMas, Easter etc etc. I must add I learned all the things I still believe with another group FIRST, not PKG.
Quote (Kirrily @ Aug. 06 2009,17:00) Quote I still believe a lot about what Ron taught too – ie. XMas, Easter etc etc. I must add I learned all the things I still believe with another group FIRST, not PKG.
Hi KirrilyThese groups in Australia, did they leave everything in the US to follow RW there?
WJ
We must not give up hope that Jesus is coming just because of the Ronald Weinlands in the world, that is the part of Theodorejs message I got. Ronald is a false Prophet sent to do that, make people lose hope. But we must battle on battered like Kerrily, knowing that God lets us make these mistakes and to learn something from it: to trust in him -God over all else. And his son Jesus, and the holy spirit, to be thankfull and to really know when God truely is leading us. I can now tell the difference, and in these last days where it is vital to know the difference, in this I am gratefull.
Peace and love to you all.
Quote (Kirrily @ Aug. 07 2009,08:58) Hi there, It took me a while to think of that too – that indeed he was acting like the Pope.
I am not sure Irene as to which comments you say are not right exactly – you see Ron doesn't say he is Jesus, but if you don't believe Ron, he says that you are not believing God/Jesus (the message) – this is common knowledge, for all to see and hear.
When my mother was disfellowshipped, she was also told that because she didn't believe Ron, she didn't believe God/Jesus – was rejecting God Himself. She was then told that she no longer had Gods spirit.
Just a tiny example: GFW: Page 24, first para : “God has given to Jesus Christ the timing for the seals to be opened, and Jesus Christ in turn has given the timing to me.”
So, God gave the 'message' to Jesus, then Jesus gave it to Ron. That has resulted in all this “If you don't believe me, you don't believe God” – again, that is why are current PKG member on this forum is calling me AntiChrist.
They believe if you reject the message (Ron's books/sermons/interviews), then you are rejecting the messenger (God).
This is the way COG-PKG works.
I have seen it over and over again. I am not sure if this is common in other COG groups, when I was a member of ICG (GTA group) there was none of this sort of talk.
I still believe a lot about what Ron taught too – ie. XMas, Easter etc etc.
Have a great day all.
When we belonged to the W.W. C. of God, nothing like that was said. Even though the Minister did not want to have fellowship with Non-Members. Other then that we enjoyed the time we spend there. One thing that was good is that all Members believed the same thing. We did whatever we felt like doing. We talked to our Neighbors etc. To me it was not a cult. What Mr. Weinland is doing is what the Church did before we joined. I think we would not have joined then, I was very active and I sang in the Choir. We had a good Choir. Later when Mr. Dennis was our Minister we had a 75 Member Choir. We sounded great. So not all was bad, just like Mr. Weinland teaching about X-mas etc. We still don't keep X-mas except I do buy our small 7 year old Grandson a Present.
I do it for Him and I find nothing wrong with it.
Peace and Love IreneGreetings Irene……Please allow me to make myself perfectly clear…I am not saying that RW is emulating The Christ….Simply put…everything that he espouses is not wrong…And as I stated before his boldness with respect to his prophesies has been tempered..His conviction is evident and it would behoove the listener to gleen what is correct and dismiss what is not….Irene I know you are very familiar with this man and there is deep routed feelings and I respect that….This is just my opinion and is intended not to mislead or win over followers for RW…
Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 07 2009,12:00) Greetings Irene……Please allow me to make myself perfectly clear…I am not saying that RW is emulating The Christ….Simply put…everything that he espouses is not wrong…And as I stated before his boldness with respect to his prophesies has been tempered..His conviction is evident and it would behoove the listener to gleen what is correct and dismiss what is not….Irene I know you are very familiar with this man and there is deep routed feelings and I respect that….This is just my opinion and is intended not to mislead or win over followers for RW…
Good enough.
IreneQuote (theodorej @ Aug. 07 2009,12:00) Greetings Irene……Please allow me to make myself perfectly clear…I am not saying that RW is emulating The Christ….Simply put…everything that he espouses is not wrong…And as I stated before his boldness with respect to his prophesies has been tempered..His conviction is evident and it would behoove the listener to gleen what is correct and dismiss what is not….Irene I know you are very familiar with this man and there is deep routed feelings and I respect that….This is just my opinion and is intended not to mislead or win over followers for RW…
It isn't exactly hard to see that the world is heading into a pretty turbulent and potentially unpleasant time – and when times get harder people cling to more desperate points of view.I found RWs site quite easily when I did the hunting that brought me to this site. But as soon as I saw the phrase prompting donations and that he was too busy to deal with general questions – I knew – this is all about money.
Most religious beliefs to do with the end to me don't say anything about needing money, just to wait for Jesus to show up and save you or whatever.
Me, I'm practical – and think money could be kinda useful to get certain items and equipment – should I try starting some little (or big) cult up, taking advantage of the gullible – to achieve those ends? I think I'd have to warp what I know to be true to play the religious card – but for a good cause, right?
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 07 2009,19:43) Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 07 2009,12:00) Greetings Irene……Please allow me to make myself perfectly clear…I am not saying that RW is emulating The Christ….Simply put…everything that he espouses is not wrong…And as I stated before his boldness with respect to his prophesies has been tempered..His conviction is evident and it would behoove the listener to gleen what is correct and dismiss what is not….Irene I know you are very familiar with this man and there is deep routed feelings and I respect that….This is just my opinion and is intended not to mislead or win over followers for RW…
It isn't exactly hard to see that the world is heading into a pretty turbulent and potentially unpleasant time – and when times get harder people cling to more desperate points of view.I found RWs site quite easily when I did the hunting that brought me to this site. But as soon as I saw the phrase prompting donations and that he was too busy to deal with general questions – I knew – this is all about money.
Most religious beliefs to do with the end to me don't say anything about needing money, just to wait for Jesus to show up and save you or whatever.
Me, I'm practical – and think money could be kinda useful to get certain items and equipment – should I try starting some little (or big) cult up, taking advantage of the gullible – to achieve those ends? I think I'd have to warp what I know to be true to play the religious card – but for a good cause, right?
Yes, that is exactly what I disliked from the beginning when the first Post was made. Mr. Armstrong was the same way, He traveled all of the World. That is what I really what I had against them. Even though in the O.T. times all did tithe. Now God wants us to give according to our needs. If our Children go hungry because we want to tithe, that is so wrong.
God wants a cheerful giver, not a forced. And how can we be cheerful if our Children go hungry? We have an obligation to our Children. Some will say God will go first, but are you really given to God, if the Minister what you are given to, spends it on his traveling expenses? The Family first and then the Church.
Peace and Love Irene
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