Ronald Weinland: 2008 God's Final Witness

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (ptr775 @ Aug. 03 2009,07:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 03 2009,16:47) Are you blind? It wasn't just the time line, it was also his other predictions like the USA would not have another President and that there would be a nuke dropped on the USA last june and that the 7th seal had been opened Etc, Etc . Etc. Are YOU blind? I just addressed that. Quote These are his words… Quote “From now until THE LATTER PART OF 2008, many prophecies are going to begin to be fulfilled, especially the Seven Thunders of the Book of Revelation, which the apostle John saw but was RESTRICTED FROM RECORDING. Those thunders are revealed in this book“ Here is some more… Quote ”If it doesn't come to pass…starting in April, then I'm nothing but a false prophet..” And ”The reality is if it doesn't happen, then you're just false…I'll acknowledge my error, my wrong, if I'm wrong”…–Ronald Weinland Interview on The Edge Radio on December 15, 2007 Ron did acknowledge the error. Once again, I've addressed that. Quote As far as peoples lives you are wrong. When people sell everything they have and quit there jobs to follow a mans prophesies only to find out that they were false, is a serious thing, and you can explain it all away as it being God's money if you like, but that man will be responsible for his false prophesies and lies which destroyed many that followed his teachings. And do you any of these people who you think their lives were ruined? Quote RWs on words should be heeded by blind followers like yourself, for he said… Quote ”If nothing happens, then you can know positively that this is complete fiction”. Well nothing happened. So it is complete fiction! I'll just say again, I've addressed that. Quote Also you mention 2012, and yet you said in an earlier post… Quote (ptr775 @ May 31 2008,07:28) I've read up on 2012, and it all seems based on pagan and new age stuff, and astrology, I don't give it much credence, unless they knew more than what God gave us in the scriptures, which I personally doubt, but each to his own I guess.  Found here! Yet now you are defending 2012 because RW is? I was talking about the Dec 21, 2012 date, that comes from the Mayan Calendar (pagans) and galactic alignments (new age), because this not based on scripture. The may 27th date is backed up by scripture, being Pentecost, symbolic of the first harverst (the first resurrection at the return of Christ), which is 1335 days (mentioned in Daniel) from the feast of Trumpets (which announces the opening of the 7th seal, which brings the 7 trumpets). Quote Open your eyes man, this guy is not hearing from God and is a false prophet! Then why do you even care to spend effort on him?

Hi Ptr

Here is a poem to one of his followers that I think sums it all up.

There are many more sad stories out there. Open your eyes and be honest with yourself, for this man has hurt many by his lies.

Poem to Ron Weinland

Your words full of wisdom
They made perfect sense
The warmth of your smile
The safety in participation with you

Growth in mind, in spirit
The reality of where we were headed
No fear, just anticipation
Our days were full of tomorrow, not today

Our loved ones feared
But we were not diffused
Tomorrow was what mattered
Most friendships passed away
New ones were forged

Our past was what shaped us
Our present was reforming us
Our future was set
If only we did not give up

To conform, to transform
To allow the change, to see the change
Our lives in the present, only to prepare
Prepare for the Kingdom of God

We were fed, we were clothed
Nakedness in mind and spirit was not experienced
Friendship and warmth in preparedness
We were not alone

We had each other
We were prepared, ever learning
Steadfast, immovable in our belief
We were special, we knew what was to come

Arrogance of mind, of attitude
Pride
We did not see it in ourselves, only others
It was all around us, never in us

Looking down upon others
Calling it something else
Knowing ‘The Call’ wasn’t theirs – yet
Hoping that day would come

Their eyes were shut
Ours were open
Their minds were closed
Ours were enlightened

They could not see
We saw clearly
They were in deception
We were in truth

Attitudes shifted, timelines changed
Things were suddenly unclear
Was this still the truth?
Did we fail to see?

We repented, we were wrong of course
We stood firm
We did not give up
We wanted, had to have, total resolve

Time went by
We adjusted our attitude
Looking forever inward
Knowing we must not doubt
Life went on

One day it hit
One day was all it took
To look into the eyes of others
The feeling of superiority suddenly recognized, obviously unfounded
It was shocking to see what we had become

Questions needed to be asked
Questions were not answered
We were told we could not longer see
That God was no longer with us

Friendships forged through separation from the world
Ended, were broken
No longer part of the truth, we were told
Suddenly, we were alone

We had the truth, we would not let go
It was only our leader
It was only our belief
He was not who he sa
id he was

Looking for a teacher
Looking for food, finding none
The mess that was WCG
So many daughters, so who is really the whore?

The 10 is what we have now
The basic, the unchanging, Gods Law
The truth is what we seek
The truth is still not found

Time passed
Healing was slow
Time to recover
Time to awaken

The pain, the agony
True humbling took place
Brought to nought
The foundation was all that remained

A counterfeit is barely recognized from the true
First you must know what is true
Who is true
By what they say coming to pass, not failing
Twice

Acknowledging we believed a lie
Believed a witness, a prophet
Consumed with his own truth
A truth he believed was given, he was never giving up

A witness, a prophet
Believing his own self
Believing what was ‘given’
Until the end

We wish him no harm, no foul
Only wishing, hoping that no others are hurt
The hurt we carry with us,
The hurt we can hardly bear

What we saw in him as humility, became arrogance
What we saw as steadfast, became delusion
What we saw as the truth, was actually his own truth
What we saw as belonging, was actually being lost

Cursing who he believes as being the blind
To death
The mockers, the deceived
From his point of view, are not they too – potential Children of God under PKG?
Yet – they are cursed to die

True humility
Is admitting when you are wrong
Those of us who left, were humbled, we admitted our error
Those who remain, ignore their pride
Its harder to leave, than to stay
It’s harder to admit you are wrong, than stay in deception

We were taught pride is our ultimate enemy
We thought pride was far from us
Pride in fact, was what we lived, what we were, what we became
Leaving brought us true humility
True knowledge of Pride

Admission of being wrong
Not easy, not safe
Pride is what prevents
Acknowledgment of being wrong.

Pride is Ronald Weinland
We see you
We still love you
Just stop – let the people go

You are not the truth
You do not have the truth
You are wrong
You are false

The pain you have caused was not intentional
The agony you yourself bear is great
Just acknowledge you’re wrong
Don’t let your pride win.

Pride is what you are
Pride is what you became
Pride is you’re here and now
It will not be allowed to be your future

The End is nigh
That, we still believe
But yours must be closer

We forgive you
But this lie can not continue

Kirrily
May 6, 2009
————————————-

Thank you for sharing this, Kirrily. You are quite generous in spirit — more generous than I or others would be in this situation. If only one particular person would heed your plea to reexamine what's going. I believe that you've communicated to me some the essence of your journey so far through this cult, although I won't totally understand it. Even though you're no longer a member, you may have a distance left to travel, but I hope the path gets easier as you go further along.

In keeping with Kirrily's generous spirit, there is a moratorium on mocking Ron in the comments section for this post. (Other posts remain open for that.) I believe that there is plenty to discuss about the effects of Weinland's cult on its members, and that's what this thread is for.

Posted by Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) at 5/06/2009 07:06:00 AM    Source

WJ

[ptr775]

I know Kirrily personally, and therefore have a much greater perspective on that situation that you ever will, so so don't even bother going there.

Wj, you can go on as much as you want, telling me to open my eyes, but it is you who needs to open your eyes. It is more than faith for me, because I know for a fact this is God's church….

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Three times now I have requested anointing from the elders, and three times I have been healed. One time was a condition that continually got worse over 7 months to the point where I was on the verge of needing surgery. After annointing I was completely healed within the 4 days. Another time was for a condition that the doctors said would take AT LEAST 12 weeks to heal, but I was healed within days. Another time I was to need antibiotics, but instead was healed within the HOUR.

The truth is there was a reason behind the date change if you have eyes to see, and it was a separating of the sheep and the goats, because most joined to save themselves out of fear, not because of conviction of God's truth. They are all gone now. I do not expect you to understand, but remember your words, because one day you will.

[ptr775]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 04 2009,05:20)

Since you endorse Mr. Weinland so much, do you go to His   Church or rented Building?  And to you keep the Sabbath? Do you know about the Old Covenant and he New?  Have you studied it?  I have lots of information about those subject and so does Heaven Net. Peace and Love Irene

A church is a people, not a building. I do just as the early church did, and meet in homes. Yes I keep the Sabbath, just as the early church did. Yes I have studied the old and new covenant, the new is simply the Law with an added spiritual side. Jesus said he did not come to do away with the law, and Paul said we do not do away with the law, but we establish it.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

MATTHEW 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so?

[NickHassan]

Hi and welcome pt,
The Law was given to the Jews and applies to them.[Rom2-3]
Are you a jew?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (ptr775 @ Aug. 03 2009,15:29)

I know Kirrily personally, and therefore have a much greater perspective on that situation that you ever will, so so don't even bother going there. Wj, you can go on as much as you want, telling me to open my eyes, but it is you who needs to open your eyes. It is more than faith for me, because I know for a fact this is God's church…. James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: Three times now I have requested anointing from the elders, and three times I have been healed. One time was a condition that continually got worse over 7 months to the point where I was on the verge of needing surgery. After annointing I was completely healed within the 4 days. Another time was for a condition that the doctors said would take AT LEAST 12 weeks to heal, but I was healed within days. Another time I was to need antibiotics, but instead was healed within the HOUR. The truth is there was a reason behind the date change if you have eyes to see, and it was a separating of the sheep and the goats, because most joined to save themselves out of fear, not because of conviction of God's truth. They are all gone now. I do not expect you to understand, but remember your words, because one day you will.

Hi Ptr

Quote (ptr775 @ Aug. 03 2009,15:29)

I know Kirrily personally, and therefore have a much greater perspective on that situation that you ever will, so so don't even bother going there.

I think they have a greater perspective about their own experience than you will ever have.

No I think that they are telling the truth and your eletist attitude and arrogance is proof of what they say.

You claim to be part of the “True Church”, that is what cults do.

So don't go there. The Body of Christ is the “True Church” which is made up of believers all over the world who has been made to drink of the one Spirit and has nothing to do with man made organisations.

You are claiming that only the “Church of God” has that Spirit and that is a lie according to the scriptures for they teach he will pour out of his Spirit on all flesh.

As far as healings, I also have been healed by the power of God from serious migrains and have seen many others healed that have never brightened the doors of the Church of God.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Are you pastoring one of these man made organisations?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi Ptr

Quote (ptr775 @ Aug. 03 2009,15:29)

The truth is there was a reason behind the date change if you have eyes to see, and it was a separating of the sheep and the goats, because most joined to save themselves out of fear, not because of conviction of God's truth. They are all gone now. I do not expect you to understand, but remember your words, because one day you will.

Yes of course now you are the prophet also casting judgment on me.

You know nothing about my relationship with God.

This is what you guys claimed would happen to us when we didnt believe his previous dates and prophesies! So when he is found out to be false about the next prediction will you confess that you were wrong or will you just wait for more of his excuses?

   

WJ

[karmarie]

Hello Ptr,

The 2 witnesses are mentioned in the book of Revelation.The book of Rev is a mysterious book. If I recall correctly, the Orthodox Church doesnt include it in cannon, they do believe it is inspired, but they also believe it is too complicated to be read by just anyone. Some Orthodox have looked at the book, and they believe it is not in chronological order, but it is as if John is standing in a room of segments of movies all around him and as he looks around at each piece it is in segments but not order. It is also written symbolically, one thing describes something else eg, the beast is not a literal beast, etc, so in a book of symbolism, does the part of the two witnesses all of a sudden become literal? If they do become literal, then John is told to measure the earthly temple,and those worshipping there, so the temple must have been still standing when john saw the vision, so could it be Jesus and maybe an apostle it means when talking of the 2 witnesses? (Jesus witnessed and then died and was risen up) See thats where I just get so confused and I prefer not to try to understand the book , its too confusing for me.

So, if you go back to Jesus, and his easy to understand teachings, “for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear”, (if you please forget for a moment about Weinlands really strange interpretation of the following..please just for a moment), Jesus said in Matthew 24 when talking about the end of the world,(and really pay attention )….
” …..the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ……and again Jesus warns…..11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. …and again!! …24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. …. Look how important this warning was to Jesus! It is repeated 3 times. Now where in that whole thing did Jesus warn us that 2 witnesses would come and we were to follow them ? NOWHERE! Rather the opposite. We are warned again and again against false prohets and to look up for our redemption,
Are you dependant on Ronald and his church for support and encouragment and strength, or In God?
Jeremiah 17
5 This is what the LORD says:
“Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who depends on flesh for his strength
and whose heart turns away from the LORD.
6 He will be like a bush in the wastelands;
he will not see prosperity when it comes.
He will dwell in the parched places of the desert,
in a salt land where no one lives.
7 “But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD,
whose confidence is in him.
8 He will be like a tree planted by the water
that sends out its roots by the stream.
It does not fear when heat comes;
its leaves are always green.
It has no worries in a year of drought
and never fails to bear fruit.”
9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?
10 “I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve.”
Jesus says that when he comes we will be judged on what good we did in the world. …”35 for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; 36 naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.’….That we are to love God and to love our neighbour as ourselves There is no mystery in what Jesus said. We are judged by our hearts and our actions toward others.
This man is filling you up with distortions of the scriptures,
When I was convinced Ronald was who he said, I got hurt and offended by anyone who tried to warn me. I took it as a personal attack. Now, looking back, how blind was I !!! These people are talking sense!

[ptr775]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 04 2009,07:50)

Hi and welcome pt, The Law was given to the Jews and applies to them.[Rom2-3] Are you a jew?

Hi Nick. The Law was given to all Israel (read exodus), all 12 tribes, the Jews are those of the kingdom of Judah (the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) which split from Israel after the death of Solomon (1Kings 12). If you are called into the church of God, you become part of spiritual Israel whether you are Israelite by birth, or gentile, you become heir to the promises of Abraham, part of the fig tree of Israel….

ROMANS 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

If you walk in Christ you are part of the Israel of God mentioned in Galatians (6:16).

The law was not done away, Christ actually magnified it to a spiritual level, for instance, now not only is it sin to commit the physical act of adultery, but it is now sin to even look on a woman in lust, because Christ said that was committing adultery in your heart.

If the law does not apply to you, then you cannot sin, because it is the Law that shows what sin is, and as John said “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law” (1John 3:4), and notice he also said “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1John 1:8). So if you say the law doesn't apply to you, then you can't sin, and if you say you can't sin, then the truth is not in you.

Paul also pointed out that it is through the Law that we see what our sins are….

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

People even think the 10 commandments are done away, which would include the 7th day Sabbath, but…

1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Strong words. The word of God says plainly that those that says they are worshiping Jesus, or even know him, but fail to keep the commandments, they are liars. I wonder how many that would include on this forum alone?

Now, most don't even know that they are even Israelites by birth, let alone part of spiritual Israel. Here are some very informative videos on the subject….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mixzEmscMxw&feature=channel_page

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yeBQtSLDRc&feature=channel_page

[ptr775]

wrote:

No, I am no prophet, and am not placing judgment on you. You are placing judgment on yourself.

Quote

This is what you guys claimed would happen to us when we didnt believe his previous dates and prophesies! So when he is found out to be false about the next prediction will you confess that you were wrong or will you just wait for more of his excuses?

His predictions are already coming to pass.

[ptr775]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 04 2009,08:08)

I think they have a greater perspective about their own experience than you will ever have.

You don't have any idea about that situation, which I'm not going to go into, so like I said, don't even bother.

Quote

No I think that they are telling the truth and your eletist attitude and arrogance is proof of what they say.

You've done nothing but attack me and others except those that agree with you, yet I'm the arrogant one with the elitist attitude? Why are you even bothering with this topic? You really need to ask yourself that. If you are so convicted that Ron Weinland is false, why do you waste time on it?

Quote

You claim to be part of the “True Church”, that is what cults do.

So Jesus started a cult then?

Quote

So don't go there. The Body of Christ is the “True Church” which is made up of believers all over the world who has been made to drink of the one Spirit and has nothing to do with man made organisations.

So you believe all these groups around the world who speak and believe different things, have different faiths, are all part of the “true church”? Well that's not what scripture says .

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Whether you like the idea or not, there IS only one true church, because what is not of the truth, is a lie. By very definition of truth, only one faith can be correct, so which is it? You are attacking me for believing mine is, yet you yourself obviously do the very same thing!

And whether you like it or not, that true church always had the name Church of God….

1Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Corinthians 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

1Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

2Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

1Timothy 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?).

Quote

You are claiming that only the “Church of God” has that Spirit and that is a lie according to the scriptures for they teach he will pour out of his Spirit on all flesh.

It is the scriptures that claim that only the “Church of God” has the the truth, and the spirit. The church of God does also teach that God will indeed pour out his spirit on all flesh, so I don't know where you are going with that.

Quote

As far as healings, I also have been healed by the power of God from serious migrains and have seen many others healed that have never brightened the doors of the Church of God.

God indeed is a merciful God, and does heal those not even connected to his church, the life and acts of Jesus is evident of that, that is not what I was saying. I was simply using that experience, one of only many I must add, that the ministry headed by Ron weinland (earthly head under Christ) is not devoid of God as most think. I gave that example to show that I have more than simple faith, I have evidence that the elders I went to for healing, just as God instructs, are part of his church, not that I really needed that evidence though, since I was convicted to the marrow of my bones before hand. I'm glad to hear you were healed by the way, no matter what you think of me.

[ptr775]

Quote (karmarie @ Aug. 04 2009,11:59)

Hello Ptr, The 2 witnesses are mentioned in the book of Revelation.The book of Rev is a mysterious book. If I recall correctly, the Orthodox Church doesnt include it in cannon, they do believe it is inspired, but they also believe it is too complicated to be read by just anyone. Some Orthodox have looked at the book, and they believe it is not in chronological order, but it is as if John is standing in a room of segments of movies all around him and as he looks around at each piece it is in segments but not order. It is also written symbolically, one thing describes something else eg, the beast is not a literal beast, etc, so in a book of symbolism, does the part of the two witnesses all of a sudden become literal?  If they do become literal, then John is told to measure the earthly temple,and those worshipping there, so the temple must have been still standing when john saw the vision, so  could it be Jesus and maybe an apostle it means when talking of the 2 witnesses? (Jesus witnessed and then died and was risen up)  See thats where I just get so confused and  I prefer not to try to understand the book  , its too confusing for me.[/qoute] Yes Revelation is symbolic in many place, but this is obviously not one of them…. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. So, if you go back to Jesus, and his easy to understand teachings,  “for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear”,   (if you please forget for a moment about Weinlands really strange interpretation of the following..please just for a moment),  Jesus said  in Matthew 24 when talking about the end of the world,(and really pay attention )…. ” …..the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?  4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ……and again Jesus warns…..11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. …and again!! …24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. …. Look how important this warning was to Jesus! It is repeated 3 times.

Yes jesus did say that many false people would come in that lasts days, but you you only have to look around to see the whole world is full of false prophets. By the way, the term prophet means more than simply a fortune teller, it also means inspired speaking, or teaching. If you can find fault with Ron's doctrine, I'd like to hear it.

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Now where in that whole thing did Jesus warn us that 2 witnesses would come and we were to follow them ? NOWHERE!

So? Do you expect Jesus to mention the two witnesses every time he mentions end time events. A lack of something is not proof of anything.

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Are you dependant on Ronald and his church for support and encouragment and strength, or In God?

Why do you all think we bow at Ron's feet? The church is God's church, not Ron's, of course we all look to God.

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Jesus says that when he comes we will be judged on what good we did in the world.  …”35 for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; 36 naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.’….That we are to love God and to love our neighbour as ourselves    There is no mystery in what Jesus said. We are judged by our hearts and our actions toward others.

So if you run around giving out cash, yet fail to obey the commandments of God, then are you saved? of course not, there is more to it than simple good deeds.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

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This man is filling you up with distortions of the scriptures

Show me one, just one.

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When I was convinced Ronald was who he said, I got hurt and offended by anyone who tried to warn me. I took it as a personal attack. Now, looking back, how blind was I !!! These people are talking sense!

Each to his own. I don't take it personally, because it is not me they are speaking against. It isn't even Ron they are speaking against. They reject God, but they don't see it that way. No offense intended here, but your story reminds me of a parable of Jesus….

3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.
8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; an
d brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some a hundred.
9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Men love following men.

[karmarie]

I feel for you.

Is your last quoted parable supposed to make you feel better and more superior than everyone else? There are good people out here in the world. World Vision (when I was hungry you fed me, thirsty you gave me water to drink), Amnesty International (when I was in prison you visited me),  Peacemakers (blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God!) to name a few. See that is what Weinland does, brainwashes people.  You cant see sense, PLEASE listen.

[ptr775]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 04 2009,21:18)

Hi, Men love following men.

Can you fault what I said?

[ptr775]

Quote (karmarie @ Aug. 04 2009,21:20)

I feel for you. Is your last quoted parable supposed to make you feel better and more superior than everyone else?

Why do you all think that? I quote Jesus and you think I'm being arrogant?!?

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There are good people out here in the world. World Vision (when I was hungry you fed me, thirsty you gave me water to drink), Amnesty International (when I was in prison you visited me),  Peacemakers (blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God!) to name a few.

That is the problem with man, he thinks his righteousness is greater than God's. If I go out a save a million lives but I do it it the name of lies, and place ads on TV, do you think God enjoys that? If I adopt a child, and then go and tell everyone about, what does God think?

MATTHEW 6
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are : for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

That is from God's word. The truth is most people do good to feel good about themselves, not out of divine love. If you have eyes to see, most of it it is actually selfish.

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See that is what Weinland does, brainwashes people.  You cant see sense, PLEASE listen.

How am I brainwashed? Actually, I'd love to have my brain washed, washed clean of all the garbage accumulated from this world. Unfortunately it's not that easy, that is why we have to overcome, it builds Godly character.

Funny how you people call me the arrogant one, yet it is you who is attacking and insulting me. ?!?

[ptr775]

I understand you may believe there are good people in this world, but that is based on the standards of this world, not God's.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

[Cindy]

Quote (ptr775 @ Aug. 04 2009,21:59)

I understand you may believe there are good people in this world, but that is based on the standards of this world, not God's. Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Read the post I made on the Covenants in the Truth and Tradition Tread under if you reject the Pope, you reject Paul.
You will learn something.
Irene

[karmarie]

Ptr,

I have to agree there are people who do give etc to look good, but there are also people who do good for others just out of compassion and feeling for others.  God looks on the heart.

We are in the days of the falling away from the truth, this I agree. I dont go to any church, I did go to the Adventist church for a while but stopped going. It is so easy when you know there seems to be no truth out there, to fall into groups like Ronalds. (who also agree theres no truth out there). But for me there was too many things that didnt add up with what Weinland was saying in his books. I had a feeling that his references to eg matthew 24 as applying only to his church, didnt make sense, how could Jesus's references to earthquakes and war be actually meaning wars and fallouts in Weinlands church? Jesus meant exactly what he said. He was talking about the world. Thats just one example, I dont feel like going back over things that he said but too much just didnt add up. And after I gave up on Weinland, I felt like that was it..there wasnt ANY hope anywhere “out there” it has taken me a while to climb back up to God. And now that im there I can see so much more, it is true, I can see what Weinland does, but I know that you will not see, because you are further in than I was and it was bad enough where I was.

Peace and love
karmarie

[Cindy]

Quote (karmarie @ Aug. 04 2009,22:44)

Ptr, I have to agree there are people who do give etc to look good, but there are also people who do good for others just out of compassion and feeling for others.  God looks on the heart. We are in the days of the falling away from the truth, this I agree. I dont go to any church, I did go to the Adventist church for a while but stopped going. It is so easy when you know there seems to be no truth out there, to fall into groups like Ronalds. (who also agree theres no truth out there). But for me there was too many things that didnt add up with what Weinland was saying in his books. I had a feeling that his references to eg matthew 24 as applying only to his church, didnt make sense, how could Jesus's references to earthquakes and war be actually meaning wars and fallouts in Weinlands church? Jesus meant exactly what he said. He was talking about the world. Thats just one example, I dont feel like going back over things that he said but too much just didnt add up. And after I gave up on Weinland, I felt like that was it..there wasnt ANY hope anywhere “out there” it has taken me a while to climb back up to God. And now that im there I can see so much more, it is true, I can see what Weinland does, but I know that you will not see, because you are further in than I was and it was bad enough where I was. Peace and love karmarie

I agree with you.  I know Weinland personal, we went to the same W.W.Church of God were He was an Assistant Minister.  I agree that He is totally wrong.  If you have just one error, you are considered an Antichrist, just like Mr. Armstrong was.  We came out of the Catholic Church were we never read the Bible at all.  We did learn to read the Bible in that Church, but not to the point were it was nothing but the truth.  You are so right when you say, that there is no Church that has only the truth.  The Church which Christ is the head of, is Spiritual.  IN Spirit and in truth shall you worship Me.  So we are my Husband and I are staying Home too.
Peace and Love Irene

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