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Hi TJ,
Men breathing fire? Men being two olive trees?Rev11
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.Zechariah 4
1And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
Quote (theodorej @ April 05 2008,12:29) Nick….Revelation 11 speaks to whether the witnesses are men or not…although it does not say they are men specifically it certainly eludes to the fact that they are…..If any thing they experience death and that certainly means they are not spirit….
You may want to reconsider your position on this comment. I know for sure one man in whom the Spirit dwelled, besides myself. He was a man, He was Spirit, and He was put to death.Hi TJ,
I believe the secret is hidden in the reply to the question in Zech4“4So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
Quote (Laurel @ April 05 2008,16:48) Quote (theodorej @ April 05 2008,12:29) Nick….Revelation 11 speaks to whether the witnesses are men or not…although it does not say they are men specifically it certainly eludes to the fact that they are…..If any thing they experience death and that certainly means they are not spirit….
You may want to reconsider your position on this comment. I know for sure one man in whom the Spirit dwelled, besides myself. He was a man, He was Spirit, and He was put to death.
Thank you for your imput Laurel…..exactly which part of my comment are eluding to ,that I should reconsider,
Surely I know that the Christ was born of the Virgin Mary and is infact God and was put to death as a man……However our discussion is centered around the carnality of two the witnesses,specifically,are they men or spirit….with reference to Rev.11…..Can you shed some light on the subject….commentary only it is much to tedeous to review pages of scripture….Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2008,12:59) Hi TJ,
Men breathing fire? Men being two olive trees?Rev11
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.Zechariah 4
1And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
Greetings Nick….I would think ,that when we view scripture and the interpretation there of from a physical perspective we are attempting to understand what is purposely intended to confuse the wise and learned…..After all Jesus spoke in parables for this reason and in addition we are told we are to be as little children if we are to understand…..In closing anything is possible with God even men breathing fire….Quote (theodorej @ April 06 2008,00:00) Quote (Laurel @ April 05 2008,16:48) Quote (theodorej @ April 05 2008,12:29) Nick….Revelation 11 speaks to whether the witnesses are men or not…although it does not say they are men specifically it certainly eludes to the fact that they are…..If any thing they experience death and that certainly means they are not spirit….
You may want to reconsider your position on this comment. I know for sure one man in whom the Spirit dwelled, besides myself. He was a man, He was Spirit, and He was put to death.
Thank you for your imput Laurel…..exactly which part of my comment are eluding to ,that I should reconsider,
Surely I know that the Christ was born of the Virgin Mary and is infact God and was put to death as a man……However our discussion is centered around the carnality of two the witnesses,specifically,are they men or spirit….with reference to Rev.11…..Can you shed some light on the subject….commentary only it is much to tedeous to review pages of scripture….
Hi Tj,
God was put to death?I AM WHO AM, the LIVING GOD cannot die
or there is no eternal life.You confuse God with the Son of God who died.
Rom6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
…
22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Quote 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. You should be more concerned about reading your Bible than Reading This mans books.
I've listened to the man and looked at some of his books. Like I said he makes some good points. On the other hand…He says a lot of stuff that I do not agree with.
Satan has a heavy influence on a lot of people in this world. Anyone that is trying to “Force-Feed” me something I'm almost certain that its an unclean spirit.
Quote (Samuel @ April 06 2008,06:32) Quote 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. You should be more concerned about reading your Bible than Reading This mans books.
I've listened to the man and looked at some of his books. Like I said he makes some good points. On the other hand…He says a lot of stuff that I do not agree with.
Satan has a heavy influence on a lot of people in this world. Anyone that is trying to “Force-Feed” me something I'm almost certain that its an unclean spirit.
Force feed by fear on top of it. That is what happened in the W.W.C. of God when we attend it. People let their Children go hungry, because they were afraid that if you did not tithe they would be left behind. So it is with Mr. Weinland. Just send your tithe to Post Office Box, Cincinnati, Ohio, while He travels all over the world, just like Mr. Armstrong did.
I loved the people that we met, but looking back it makes me rather sad. Most of our close friends are dead. Some moved away, still keep in touch with some.
But some have gone back to even believe in the trinity and celebrate Christmas and Easter. So sad. But I will not judge them, may God be with them I say always.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote The two witnesses are most definitely men I actually disagree with this, that they are two men. I believe the “two witnesses” symbolize something other than two individual men. I believe they represent a group of people.
“And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”
I'm just wondering who those who see Ron as one of the “two witnesses” think the other witness is. Has Ron began to prophecy? Then it seems the other “witness” would be prophecying too, for this 1260 day period.
Whoever these “two witnesses” may be, the fact that they were represented by two witnesses confirms to us that their message was accurate and well founded. (Compare Deuteronomy 17:6; John 8:17, 18.)
DEUTERONOMY 17:6
“At the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one dying should be put to death. He will not be put to death at the mouth of one witness.”JOHN 8:17-18
“Also, in YOUR own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.””John calls them “the two olive trees and the two lampstands,” saying that they “are standing before the Lord of the earth.” This is an evident reference to the prophecy of Zechariah, who saw a seven-branched lampstand and two olive trees. The olive trees were said to picture “the two anointed ones,” that is, Governor Zerubbabel and High Priest Joshua, “standing alongside the Lord of the whole earth.”—Zechariah 4:1-3, 14.
Zechariah lived in a time of rebuilding, and his vision of the two olive trees meant that Zerubbabel and Joshua would be blessed with Jehovah’s spirit in strengthening the people for the work.
As well, the fact that they were described as two witnesses also reminds us of the transfiguration. In that vision, three of Jesus’ apostles saw him in Kingdom glory, accompanied by Moses and Elijah.
The two witnesses are now seen to perform signs reminiscent of those of Moses and Elijah. For example, John says of them: “And if anyone wants to harm them, fire issues forth from their mouths and devours their enemies; and if anyone should want to harm them, in this manner he must be killed. These have the authority to shut up heaven that no rain should fall during the days of their prophesying.”—Revelation 11:5, 6a.This reminds us of the time when Moses’ authority was challenged in Israel. That prophet uttered fiery words of judgment, and Jehovah destroyed the rebels, consuming 250 of them by literal fire from heaven. (Numbers 16:1-7, 28-35)
What of Elijah? In the days of the kings of Israel, this prophet proclaimed a drought as an expression of Jehovah’s indignation on the Baal-worshipping Israelites. It lasted three and a half years. (1 Kings 17:1; 18:41-45; Luke 4:25; James 5:17) Later, when unfaithful King Ahaziah sent soldiers to force Elijah to come into his royal presence, the prophet called down fire from heaven to consume the soldiers. Only when a military commander showed proper respect for his position as a prophet did Elijah consent to accompany him to the king. (2 Kings 1:5-16)
Continuing:
“And they have authority over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every sort of plague as often as they wish.” (Revelation 11:6b)
In order to persuade Pharaoh to let Israel go free, Jehovah used Moses in striking oppressive Egypt with plagues, including the turning of water into blood. Centuries later, the Philistine enemies of Israel well remembered Jehovah’s acts against Egypt, causing them to cry: “Who will save us from the hand of this majestic God? This is the God that was the smiter of Egypt with every sort of slaughter [“plague,” Revised Standard Version] in the wilderness.” (1 Samuel 4:8; Psalm 105:29) Moses portrayed Jesus, who had authority to pronounce God’s judgments on the religious leaders of his day. (Matthew 23:13; 28:18; Acts 3:22)So severe was this plague on their enemies that after the two witnesses had prophesied for 42 months in sackcloth, their enemies had them ‘killed.’
“And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them. And their corpses will be on the broad way of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was also impaled. And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not let their corpses be laid in a tomb. And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and enjoy themselves, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth.”—Revelation 11:7-10.
“And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: ‘Come on up here.’ And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them.” (Revelation 11:11, 12)
Thus, they had an experience similar to that of the dry bones in the valley that Ezekiel visited in vision. Jehovah breathed upon those dry bones, and they came to life, providing a picture of the rebirth of the nation of Israel after 70 years of captivity in Babylon. (Ezekiel 37:1-14)
It is good to hear from you David…..I do not profess to have all the answers,however,in my reading of Rev 11 I was left with the impression that the bodies of two men were left for 3 1/2 days in streets of the holy city and the people were glad that they were smiten,so glad they were having a party, when all of a sudden life returned to their bodies and a command to come up here was heard……
Hey Dave…..From the best of my knowledge RWs work as a witness has not begun yet,but it is iminent,so much so that he plans on being in Israel for Passover…..
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 01 2008,22:32) April is here and where are all of Mr.Weinlands People? Chickened-out I guess. Even tho our Economy is rather slow, but we still have lots of food to buy.
So sorry for them, I wonder how they must feel right now.
Peace and Love Mrs.
april 17th is when the process begins. no one has chickened out. yall ought to at least have the decency to inform yourselves of the facts before making sneering comments. you folks gonna be in this forum on that day and the days after that? other than that i dont see any point in participating in the rest of this pointless debate.Quote (WaterAmerican @ April 11 2008,00:34) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 01 2008,22:32) April is here and where are all of Mr.Weinlands People? Chickened-out I guess. Even tho our Economy is rather slow, but we still have lots of food to buy.
So sorry for them, I wonder how they must feel right now.
Peace and Love Mrs.
april 17th is when the process begins. no one has chickened out. yall ought to at least have the decency to inform yourselves of the facts before making sneering comments. you folks gonna be in this forum on that day and the days after that? other than that i dont see any point in participating in the rest of this pointless debate.
Greetings WA….I have a very unsettled persona today in anticipation of the beginning of things fortold….Iam totally un prepared and sense that I should be in the company of folks who think and feel as I do…for that reason Iam posting…I find a certain degree of comfort in the criticism brought forth in this forum and welcome it…Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2008,22:44) Quote (WaterAmerican @ April 11 2008,00:34) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 01 2008,22:32) April is here and where are all of Mr.Weinlands People? Chickened-out I guess. Even tho our Economy is rather slow, but we still have lots of food to buy.
So sorry for them, I wonder how they must feel right now.
Peace and Love Mrs.
april 17th is when the process begins. no one has chickened out. yall ought to at least have the decency to inform yourselves of the facts before making sneering comments. you folks gonna be in this forum on that day and the days after that? other than that i dont see any point in participating in the rest of this pointless debate.
Greetings WA….I have a very unsettled persona today in anticipation of the beginning of things fortold….Iam totally un prepared and sense that I should be in the company of folks who think and feel as I do…for that reason Iam posting…I find a certain degree of comfort in the criticism brought forth in this forum and welcome it…
Hi theodore,I do ot criticize what you believe.
It is no more outlandish than what many of us believe.Whenever the end comes I can assure you that I am totally unprepared.
TIm
Of course that was supposed to be I do NOT criticize.
My “N” sticks and I should read what I have typed before
hitting post.Quote (theodorej @ April 18 2008,05:00) Greetings Tim….We are in the same boat….perhaps this thread will be very active today..
Is there room in your boat for me?
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