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Quote (david @ Mar. 07 2008,12:15) Quote Hi david,
I wondered when you would paste in your favourite JW teachings.Yes Nick, and there's only 45 scriptures that I'm relying on to come to that conclusion. Your response is the usual one: Say I'm a JW, as though that's some sort of proof of something.
nick, let me simplify this for you. A bunch of people on here who think Ron is great say he is a prophet. I'm just trying to figure out what these people believe. They all love the sabbath. And theo is a marine. I just want to know what Ron's position is on killing others in the name of your country.
Greetings David…..Army ETS 22 Aug 69Quote (theodorej @ Mar. 08 2008,00:25) Greetings Cato…..I would think your a are correct with respect to your assertion,that
Hitler,Stalin and Mao were all equally brutal products of the darker side of humanity…
To claim satanic influence of one with the exclusion of the others would be folly….These three exemplfy the epidimy of Mans in humanity towards his fellow man….
Hi TJ,
So where does George W stand?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 08 2008,05:01) Quote (theodorej @ Mar. 08 2008,00:25) Greetings Cato…..I would think your a are correct with respect to your assertion,that
Hitler,Stalin and Mao were all equally brutal products of the darker side of humanity…
To claim satanic influence of one with the exclusion of the others would be folly….These three exemplfy the epidimy of Mans in humanity towards his fellow man….
Hi TJ,
So where does George W stand?
Nick….On the surface I would say at the very least he is Ill advised….and will have to take responsibility for his actions
Surely you cannot put GWB in the same catagory as Hitler,
Stalin and Mao…Hi TJ,
Never mind, but the USA has produced her share of arrogant tyrants.
Back to Ron and his firebreathing.Quote It's not up to us to make rules and say God never allows his children to go to war. If that were the case, then King David wasn't God's child. –t8
Who exactly are you comparing King David to today? Who can you compare to him? The situation is obviously much different today.
Quote Does God give victory to armies like he did with Israel? –t8
T8, the Israelites where supposed to be a nation that was serving God. They were God's people. (When they were faithful, they did well, when they weren't they did badly.)
Today, the situation is different. Is there one nation who is made up of God's people, or are God's people spread all over the planet in every nation?
The answer is the later. Therefore, for people claiming to be Christian to go to war for their countries would mean “Christian” killing “Christian.”
Back then, that was not the situation. They were one nation, and in one nation.Quote Remember that if you are a believer and your country is on an evil spree for power, then in good conscience you shouldn't join in that mission. But if evil came to destroy your country and your country asked you to defend your country then is that evil? this is my whole point T8. What does the Bible say about who is the ruler of the world? What does it say about Satan offering Jesus all the kingdoms of the world as a “temptation”?
T8, every country believes it is right. Every country believes the “others” are wrong. Because of the thinking you stated above, because people think that way, we have had massive amounts of bloodshed. T8, I believe a Christian should be defending God's government, his kingdom, preaching this kingdom, pointing to it as the only hope. While God has allowed human governments (superior authorities) to rule for our benefit (so there is not chaos) the BIBLE indicates that they are all under the influence of “the ruler of the world,” Satan. Does it seem to you that it is a Christians place (who is to be “no part of the world”) to defend that world? The world is soon to pass away. I suggest aligning yourself with God's kingdom.david, I am replying to your above post in the JW discussion.
Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2008,10:00) While God has allowed human governments (superior authorities) to rule for our benefit (so there is not chaos) the BIBLE indicates that they are all under the influence of “the ruler of the world,” Satan. Does it seem to you that it is a Christians place (who is to be “no part of the world”) to defend that world? The world is soon to pass away. I suggest aligning yourself with God's kingdom.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. “
Edmund BurkeI view it is a Christian's place to defend the world. Yes all governments are flawed and tainted by evil yet not equally so. We are stewards of God's creation and I don't think he wants us to give up on this world because at some unspecified time in the future it may end. We are incarnate in this world for a purpose and that is to do good, not to give up and look only to the hereafter. The problem arises in deciding where best to serve that good for the choice is seldom black and white, yet to give up because there may be some moral ambiguity is likewise unacceptable. We will be judged by the decisions we made and our motivations therein, yes for what we do and also for what we do not.
Quote (Cato @ Mar. 08 2008,15:07) Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2008,10:00) While God has allowed human governments (superior authorities) to rule for our benefit (so there is not chaos) the BIBLE indicates that they are all under the influence of “the ruler of the world,” Satan. Does it seem to you that it is a Christians place (who is to be “no part of the world”) to defend that world? The world is soon to pass away. I suggest aligning yourself with God's kingdom.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. “
Edmund BurkeI view it is a Christian's place to defend the world. Yes all governments are flawed and tainted by evil yet not equally so. We are stewards of God's creation and I don't think he wants us to give up on this world because at some unspecified time in the future it may end. We are incarnate in this world for a purpose and that is to do good, not to give up and look only to the hereafter. The problem arises in deciding where best to serve that good for the choice is seldom black and white, yet to give up because there may be some moral ambiguity is likewise unacceptable. We will be judged by the decisions we made and our motivations therein, yes for what we do and also for what we do not.
Amen on “Edmund Burke” Cato…..In light of all this Doe Eyed,
pacifist form of christianity I am hearing…I can't help but
recall the story of the money changes in the temple court…If my memory serves me right I would think that was a
violent display of emotion….It took a passionate man with resolve and considerable strength to turn that place out…If you have a sense of what is right you are duty bound
to stand up….I wonder….today how many people really
know what they stand for….I stand for the existance of God….The sanctity of life and
the rule of law….And I am willing to fight for those principles..Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 08 2008,07:45) Hi TJ,
Never mind, but the USA has produced her share of arrogant tyrants.
Back to Ron and his firebreathing.
Nick….Tyranical behavior is indictative of the nature of man
I don't think a tyrant in the US is any more acceptable than
a tyrant in Europe ,China ,Russia or any other part of the
world…..It is when you don't stand up to them when the trouble starts…Quote (david @ Mar. 07 2008,12:26) Did the ron people leave?
No, the “Ron people” didn't leave…I have been following the last 20 pgs or so of this thread and it certainly seems to have strayed WAAY off topic…but I guess that's because t8 runs the board?Anyway my 2 cents on the discussions to date –
My father served in the Air Force for 20 yrs active then 20 more yrs Civil Service. I grew up on AF bases. Although he has said he was “baptised” as a teen and is active in the local church, it has been pagan Sunday/Christmas/Easter worship his entire life.
I would not join the military, and the last thing I would do is go to Iraq. This is a pagan war strictly for business purposes (oil) as carried out by puppet GW Bush and his pagan regime. He is most certainly NOT a Christian in the manner that most think he is. He is agent of Satan, or rather the instrument God has allowed him to use to bring destruction upon the US as we careen towards the end times. No other incompetent would have been able to carry out this mission as well as GWB.
I think RW's opinion on war is that it is an inevitable situation that man will always find himself in because of his nature. Was does not follow Christ's teachings, but God allows it to occur as man continues to follow his own way. It is a necessary means to an end.
We do not think “Ron is great”…I personally have no opinion of the man. I just happen to believe in his message. You all are again, mistaking believing in prinicples for following a physical “leader”, as most “cult” members do. This is not the same situation.
I will say again here, for those who have not, sit down and read Ron's books. Then come back here and make some meaningful contribution towards the topic of the OP.
Peace,
Greetings Broncs…..So am I to understand that the freedoms,and liberty that you are enjoying in this country are not worth standing up for….
In addition make no mistake The US was and still is to some degree a blessed nation…The judgement that is coming on this nation is a result of kind of people we have become….
WE STAND FOR NOTHING!!!
You might want to read Liv: 25 (blessings and curses ) .
And the will come when God will wipe our tears and heal our land….Make no mistake this will not happen by muttering and murmering….Greetings Broncs…..The passage is Leviticus 26 (sorry) blesses and curses……All you have to do is envision the US as the remnants of israel and this passage will tell you of the blessings as well as the curses that have been bestowed and the curses that are impending…
Greetings Broncs…..To bring this thread on topic lets discuss RWs book with respect to the US ….The judgement coming on this nation would foster marshall law…Do you have any Idea what the ramerfications of that will be….Iam sure that God will show favor to those that are living under the law,however,that favor will have to be earned…..there will be many trials ahead.
The chaos that will ensue is not outlined in RWs book with respect the extent….He does say that the EU will find it necessary to occupy so as to restore order and prevent the access to the US war machine….
What are your plans ??….Mine are to pray and stay vigilent…Quote (Broncs453 @ Mar. 09 2008,03:18) Quote (david @ Mar. 07 2008,12:26) Did the ron people leave?
No, the “Ron people” didn't leave…I have been following the last 20 pgs or so of this thread and it certainly seems to have strayed WAAY off topic…but I guess that's because t8 runs the board?Anyway my 2 cents on the discussions to date –
My father served in the Air Force for 20 yrs active then 20 more yrs Civil Service. I grew up on AF bases. Although he has said he was “baptised” as a teen and is active in the local church, it has been pagan Sunday/Christmas/Easter worship his entire life.
I would not join the military, and the last thing I would do is go to Iraq. This is a pagan war strictly for business purposes (oil) as carried out by puppet GW Bush and his pagan regime. He is most certainly NOT a Christian in the manner that most think he is. He is agent of Satan, or rather the instrument God has allowed him to use to bring destruction upon the US as we careen towards the end times. No other incompetent would have been able to carry out this mission as well as GWB.
I think RW's opinion on war is that it is an inevitable situation that man will always find himself in because of his nature. Was does not follow Christ's teachings, but God allows it to occur as man continues to follow his own way. It is a necessary means to an end.
We do not think “Ron is great”…I personally have no opinion of the man. I just happen to believe in his message. You all are again, mistaking believing in prinicples for following a physical “leader”, as most “cult” members do. This is not the same situation.
I will say again here, for those who have not, sit down and read Ron's books. Then come back here and make some meaningful contribution towards the topic of the OP.
Peace,
t8 owns this website, so if He wants to own something it is certainley up to Him, and you should respect that.
What will happen in the near future, time will tell if Mr. Weinland is right or wrong.
I would not get my hopes up to high.Peace and Move Mrs.
Quote (theodorej @ Mar. 09 2008,04:46) Greetings Broncs…..So am I to understand that the freedoms,and liberty that you are enjoying in this country are not worth standing up for….
In addition make no mistake The US was and still is to some degree a blessed nation…The judgement that is coming on this nation is a result of kind of people we have become….
WE STAND FOR NOTHING!!!
You might want to read Liv: 25 (blessings and curses ) .
And the will come when God will wipe our tears and heal our land….Make no mistake this will not happen by muttering and murmering….
No, you did not understand. The “freedoms and liberty I enjoy in this country” did not come about by fighting wars on some other soil. Were they to come here, I would be first in line to defend this country. And PLEASE don't go on about 9/11 being caused by foreigners. It was clearly not, by anybody who examines the physical evidence. This Iraq war is being fought under false pretenses, as was the Vietnam War. I would not have fought in that war either.I don't know what YOU stand for, but please don't make the assumption that I stand for nothing…
I know full well the implications of martial law (it's not marshall by the way). I have two unregistered firearms and I most definitely will use them if anybody threatens me or my family. I hope Ron is wrong. But I don't think so. I know more about the financial condition of this country than anybody else on this board. That's not a boast, I'm sure it's the truth if anybody cares to debate. We will experience FINANCIAL Armageddon before any attacks come I'm afraid.
While I have doubts over the abilities of Mr. Bush, I doubt he is an agent of Satan. If he was he is certainly a poor one, I think Satan could have done much better. I think the Bush flaw and doubly so for his former Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, was hubris. I am sure they, with great arrogance, thought they could improve upon what Bush senior did in the first Gulf War. But they never studied Clauswitz, and while from a purely military view the initial campaign was nearly flawless, they did not plan for victory. I think they thought Iraq would be like liberating Italy after WWII, all waving flags and smiles then they could leave showing that democracy has been victorious. They should have looked to Yugoslavia as a true model, an artificial multi-ethnic state with long standing religious and ethnic strife held together by a dictator (Tito), after whose death the state disintegrates into enclaves, civil war and ethnic cleansings. Thus because of a historical lack of perspective they were unprepared for the destruction of the Iraqi state. This was compounded by the fact that Rumsfeld being an advocate of the high tech form of warfare had created a lean army capable of great destruction by virtue of superior technology, yet with ridiculously low numbers of people to actually hold and control ground. The US Army is actually quite small in numbers of soldiers, North Korea has a larger Army even then the US. So here I think you have the essence of the debacle. They didn't understand the country and their aims were unrealistic. If they really went to take oil they certainly went about it all wrong, so I doubt that was the intention, as the campaign would have been conducted differently and Rumsfeld would have requested more ground troops. I know this is off thread but I am responding to those who like conspiracies and see Satan behind every leader. Why don't you accuse Barrack Obama, most likely the next U.S. president? A young, charismatic leader coming from nowhere with little experience, who mesmerizes crowds and promises everything to everybody, and about to take charge of the world's premier military power no less. Sounds like he would be a good candidate for an anti-christ. Perhaps somebody can do the next Omen movie with this plot, what do you think?
Quote We are stewards of God's creation and I don't think he wants us to give up on this world because at some unspecified time in the future it may end. –Cato
1 JOHN 2:15-17
“Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.”Those who cling to sinking ships….have this tendancy to go down with those ships. If God says not to be friends of the world that is passing away, then I think it makes sense to separate yourself from that world, as Jesus who was “no part of the world” did.
Quote I think RW's opinion on war is that it is an inevitable situation that man will always find himself in because of his nature. War does not follow Christ's teachings, but God allows it to occur as man continues to follow his own way. –broncs
DEUTERONOMY 32:5
“They have acted ruinously on their own part; They are not his children, the defect is their own. A generation crooked and twisted!”ECCLESIASTES 7:29
“See! This only I have found, that the [true] God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans.””ECCLESIASTES 8:9
“All this I have seen, and there was an applying of my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, [during] the time that man has dominated man to his injury.”PROVERBS 14:12
“There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward.”Sure, God allows war to continue. He allows suffering and wickedness to continue. But that doesn't mean Christians are to be a part of these things, does it?
Just because God allows something to exist (such as satan) does not mean it is something acceptable.My question to you: Just because God allows something, does that mean it is something Christians should engage in?
david
Greetings Broncs…..Thanks for the spelling lesson (Martial Law)I tend to spell phonectically
when I am not sure of the correct spelling…I agree with you premise regarding a financial
colapse RW is only echoing the feelings of an entire Banking industry…
And you a correct regarding 911…This atrocity was committed by religious fanatics who happened to be foreighners..
And in closing ……I stand for the existance of God……The sanctity of Life…..and The rule of law….
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