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Hi AoP and stosh[welcome],
The point being made is that Ron identified Armstrong as a prophet.
You and all of us agree he was wrong.
What does that say about Ron?Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 23 2008,11:37) Greetings kejonn…..Forgive my untimely response to yesterdays forum,Wouldn,t you think it presumptous to say that COG bretheren are basing their belief system on the teachings of a man….
RW undoubtably is a man who is preaching as his heart is directing him…My question to you would be “How do you decern humanly ambition from devine inspiration?”
I look at NOAH and see a much malighned fanatic.( UNTIL IT STARTED TO RAIN)
Interesting. From http://ronaldweinland.com/?page_id=26- If you follow the steps outlined below, you will have all that is needed, at this time, to properly equip you for the coming of Jesus Christ:
II If you have not thoroughly read both books mentioned above, then you need to do so. After a few weeks you need to go back and read them again. The reason for this is because there is no way that a person can fully understand all they have read from only doing so once or even twice. You will grow in greater understanding the more you come to grasp Gods’ great purpose that is being worked out for mankind.
You don't call this following a man?
Hi Nick. Thank you for the welcome. Actually Ron didn't identify him as a Prophet. In one of his interviews on the site he was asked that very question. Maybe you should listen as it gives the better explanation.
Quote (stosh64 @ Feb. 24 2008,03:04) OK. So RW is Gods witness, which means his word is beyond reproach.
RW states in his booklet titled “Time Has Run Out”,“To deny that Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong was the Elijah to come before the end-time is either ignorant or willing denial of what is true concerning our history and what God did through him. It is God who restored necessary truth to the Church so that a people would be ready for the second-coming of Jesus Christ.”
OK, so Armstrong was also sent by God, according to Gods witness RW.
So as stated by RW, Armstrongs teachings should be infallable also.
Here are a few predictions by Armstrong that didnt exactly “pan out”A prophecy about Mussolini:
“Undoubtedly, then, the “Beast” who will capture half the city of Jerusalem, fighting at Armageddon against Christ at his Second Coming, is MUSSOLINI, with ten European Dictators, and their armies! It is coming in This Generation!”
Herbert W. Armstrong, The Plain Truth, January 1939, p. 4A prophecy about Hitler:
“And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against – against whom? Not Britain and America! Not Israel – against Him that sat on the horse and His army (Rev. 19:19.) It is Christ and the Angels that Hitler will fight.”
Herbert W. Armstrong, The Plain Truth, March/April 1943, p. 6A prophecy about the second coming of Christ and the destruction of the United States:
“Jeremiah's prophecy is more specific. It is the beginning of the national trouble to come on America, the British nations, and the democracies of north-western Europe! And, as both Jeremiah and Jesus were inspired to record – and also the prophet Daniel – it will be the most catastrophic time of national trouble that has ever struck any nation or ever will! Here is exactly how catastrophic it will be: one third of our entire population will die in the famine and disease epidemic!”
Herbert W. Armstrong, 1975 In Prophecy, p. 11“But all these things, as Jesus explained, are to be only the beginning of our time of national trouble. “Once we are weakened by starvation, disease and the resulting calamitous economic depression, the Ten-Nation European Colossus will suddenly strike with hydrogen bombs that shall destroy our cities and our centers of industrial and military production!”
Herbert W. Armstrong, 1975 In Prophecy, p. 13If you want more FALSE prophecies by Armostrong, just do a search, the “truth” is out there, as the RW disciples say.
One error by a prophet of God is one too many I`m afraid.
Sorry but you are wrong about Mr. Armstrong being right. We were in the Church for 10 years. We know Mr. Weinland personally since He was our Assistant Minister here were We live. So I happen to know all about Mr. Armstrong. Nothing that Mr. Armstrong predicted came true.
I have not read Mr. Weinlands Book yet, but of what I have heard about it, it seems to be, I really don't know what to say about that.
Time will tell. One thing that I believe that He is doing that I do not like is that He is traveling all over the world to spread the Good News. Just like Mr. Armstrong used to do. With what Money? Not His own. That costs a lot of Money. He probibly spends your Tith Money. You do Tith right? First, second and thirth tithes. All according to the O.T. teaching. But we are in a New Covenant now, which Jesus gave us. Do I have prove? Yes. I have an article on the subject, just look for it.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Anticipation of Peace @ Feb. 24 2008,05:28) WaterAmerican, hello! Do I know you? Are you fellow brethren?
hi! and hi gnipp also. no, i'm not in the CoG, i'm just a new person living over in germany who has been drawn to God's truth over the last year via Ron's books. i've been scouting out the internet for ron weinland threads, and have moved over to this thread after the other got closed down in the ATS forum.Now we get to the nitty-gritty, from http://ronaldweinland.com/?page_id=26
- Tithes are not collected locally as with so many churches in traditional Christianity, but are sent to the headquarters of God’s Church. It is God’s Church that will determine how God is leading the Church and use His tithes according to His work and His will. Many ask where to send God’s tithes. All tithes are sent to:
Church of God–PKG
P.O. Box 14447
Cincinnati, OH 45250
U.S.A.For those overseas, only Australia, Belgium and the Netherlands collect tithes for the Church in these countries. All other countries should send tithes to the U.S.A. in the form of money orders, cashier’s check (cheque), or even personal bank drafts. All funds should be made payable to: Church of God – PKG.
So very predictable.
Quote (WaterAmerican @ Feb. 24 2008,05:55) Quote (Anticipation of Peace @ Feb. 24 2008,05:28) WaterAmerican, hello! Do I know you? Are you fellow brethren?
hi! and hi gnipp also. no, i'm not in the CoG, i'm just a new person living over in germany who has been drawn to God's truth over the last year via Ron's books. i've been scouting out the internet for ron weinland threads, and have moved over to this thread after the other got closed down in the ATS forum.
Guten Tag! Sie sind aus Deutschland? Wo ? Wir sind beide in Deuschland geboren. Mein Man kommt von Berlin und ich komme von Rheine Westfalen. So wo sind Sie?Herzlich Wilcommen.
Peace and Love Mrs.
what a nice surprise. I currently live in Berlin for studying, but I was born and spent most of my life in Nuremberg, Bavaria.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 24 2008,05:55) Now we get to the nitty-gritty, from http://ronaldweinland.com/?page_id=26 - Tithes are not collected locally as with so many churches in traditional Christianity, but are sent to the headquarters of God’s Church. It is God’s Church that will determine how God is leading the Church and use His tithes according to His work and His will. Many ask where to send God’s tithes. All tithes are sent to:
Church of God–PKG
P.O. Box 14447
Cincinnati, OH 45250
U.S.A.For those overseas, only Australia, Belgium and the Netherlands collect tithes for the Church in these countries. All other countries should send tithes to the U.S.A. in the form of money orders, cashier’s check (cheque), or even personal bank drafts. All funds should be made payable to: Church of God – PKG.
So very predictable.
In our Town He collects His tithes. How Ironic imdead. Yes, while He travels all over the world, just like Mr. Armstrong used to do. All I can say we do have a righteous God who sees all and one Day we all will have to stand in front of God and give account of what we have done.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (david @ Feb. 23 2008,16:48) In another website, Anticipation of Peace, I noticed you signed some of your posts as: Discipleelohim.
This confused me and made me think that maybe you were DE.Then, I read this statement from you on that site:
“The second thing that has been most amazing for me, is that all the brethren has taken my husband (DE) and myself under their wings so to speak.”
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread317948/pg42Also: “After that sermon DE and I went up to Winnipeg.”–AOP
AOP, I'm just a bit confused and was wondering what your relationship is with Discipleelohim. You two definitely know each other and often post within minutes of each other.
I might be completely wrong, and maybe you're not even the same group, but you seem to be.
The other website you were on, stopped your posting because you posted in “Forum Gangs” their rule being: “You will not engaged in an organized collaboration.”
I don't know whether you were doing that or not or are doing it here (no rule against it here) but it just seems a bit of a dishonest approach if that is true. Is it?
david
Hi David,I am A of P's husband. We share in the same unity. We are different people to set the record clear for you.
I'm certainly not here to debate with anyone what we know and what several of us Brethren share. If someone has questions then any of the Brethren will be happy to answer. There are obviously individuals that think we are wrong. So be it. They will know what is true and what is false soon enough. Lets just hope their stubborn pride doesn't stand in the way of their salvation.
Anyways i just wanted to answer your question if my wife hasn't already. I am just catching up with the forum.
To my family in Christ, hope you are having a GREAT SABBATH!!!
Quote (david @ Feb. 23 2008,17:13) OK, so AOP and DE, do you have any more family on this thread: Bronx or gnipp gnopp for example? I just felt someone mislead on the first page of this thread where you two were agreeing with each other as though you didn't know one another.
Hello again,Gnipp, Broncs, TruthSeekers, MarineOne, and may other Brethren who are my Family in Christ, the Family of God.
(I just don't live with them, yet)
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 23 2008,20:26) Quote (david @ Feb. 23 2008,17:13) OK, so AOP and DE, do you have any more family on this thread: Bronx or gnipp gnopp for example? I just felt someone mislead on the first page of this thread where you two were agreeing with each other as though you didn't know one another.
Yes I felt that too.Like trying to create a buzz and hope that others listening will be carried away in the hype.
To ALL,We apologize for any confusion. We were simple looking for a site for us Brethren to continue a thread from another site. For us it's fellowship. We clearly know many and most will reject in what we speak. We are not here to recruit. We're here for fellowship and if others find interest, we'll answer.
-DE
Quote (stosh64 @ Feb. 24 2008,04:54) Quote (WaterAmerican @ Feb. 24 2008,03:53) Quote (stosh64 @ Feb. 24 2008,03:04) One error by a prophet of God is one too many I`m afraid.
That's correct, but Mr. Armstrong was not a prophet.“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”
—Malachi 4:5-6BTW gnipp. I believe if you re-read that thread, you will see I never posted on the subject of Elijah. I believe arrogance and ignorance spew from the rw disciples posts. There is no hate from myself towards you, or any of the weinland followers. I simply try to show that he may not be the “chosen” one you believe him to be. We all want nothing more than the truth.
In Christ,
Stosh
Stosh
Good verse. In this verse God seems to indicate (to me) that Elijah is to do a work of returning relationships to a proper order. Elijah the prophet is noted for the miracle on Mt Carmel where he was used to defeat the prophets of baal and King Ahab (he lives). The people returned to God (even for only a short time as Israel is noted for) and killed the prophets of baal. I think it's in 1Kings.Being that God used the example of relationship healing and Elijah having done as he was told and has a big example of that, I believe that is what the end time Elijah was to accomplish. Not to foretell the future in this case. We believe that HWA did this as he was called at the end of the Sardis era, and was used to restore the truths of God to what was the Philadelphia era. As a side note since the apostasy in WCG we believe that we are in the Laodicean era.
Also prophet is defined :
1.a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.
2.(in the Old Testament)
a.a person chosen to speak for God and to guide the people of Israel: Moses was the greatest of Old Testament prophets.
b.(often initial capital letter) one of the Major or Minor Prophets.
c.one of a band of ecstatic visionaries claiming divine inspiration and, according to popular belief, possessing magical powers.
d.a person who practices divination.
3.one of a class of persons in the early church, next in order after the apostles, recognized as inspired to utter special revelations and predictions. 1 Cor. 12:28.
4.the Prophet, Muhammad, the founder of Islam.
5.a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader.
6.a person who foretells or predicts what is to come: a weather prophet; prophets of doom.
7.a spokesperson of some doctrine, cause, or movement.Most of the definitions are inspired teachers and speakers. #2 is old testament. We are in the new testament(as so many people remind me) and God's reference in Mal. refers to new testament times.
So we don't believe HWA to be a prophet (in the predtiction sense). Inspired teacher leader OK I'll go along with that. To handle the confusion we feel HWA was an end time Apostle.
Most important-
Lastly if you didn't use that post before I'll take your word for it and, please accept my appologies. My bad. I'd seen that list of
HWA speculations before and attributed to you. Sorry.Also my bitterness comment was not about you and previous posts. I meant mainly that HWA or WCG must have hurt you bad in the past to continue to post a list.
I hope their are no hard feelings (I don't think so). I actually enjoy when people use some scripture or biblically thought that's not pablum.
Sorry I'm pressed for time and shot from the hip. Hope it suffices to help explain where we are coming from in refuting your claim.
-Enjoy
Quote (WaterAmerican @ Feb. 24 2008,06:09) what a nice surprise. I currently live in Berlin for studying, but I was born and spent most of my life in Nuremberg, Bavaria.
Hello again! Please I want to warn you of Mr. Weinland. I do not know how He thinks God selected Him as one of the Witnesses. If I would be you, don't waste your Money on Him =rather give it to a poor Widow or a child in Africa that is starving. I know Mr. Weinland personally we went to the same Church together for 10 years.
We live in Cincinnati and have been here for over 50 years. We do not have to many relatives left in Germany and the last time we were in Berlin was in 1987. My Husbands Mother lived there till She died in 1992.
I still have a Cousin in Rheine who I correspond with. Your Hometown is very beautiful but we have never made it that far south. We went as far as the Bodensee in Switzerland. In 1987 we went for a Vacation to visit first with my Husbands Cousin's in Berlin, then we went from Dusseldorf on the train to Frankfurt and rented a car and went all over the Black Forest etc. Nice talking with you.Peace and Love Mrs.
Thanks Gnipp, I think we are all searching for the same thing. The best way to serve our Lord Jesus Christ in these end times.
To quote “seek and you will find”
“All I can say we do have a righteous God who sees all and one Day we all will have to stand in front of God and give account of what we have done.”It boils down to, for myself, that we are saved by Grace, not works.
EPHESIANS 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.I pray you all find that Grace.
peace,
StoshQuote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 23 2008,20:30) Hello again! Please I want to warn you of Mr. Weinland. I do not know how He things God selected Him as one of the Witnesses. If I would be you, don't waste your Money on Him =rather give it to a poor Widow or a child in Africa hat is starving. I know Mr. Weinland personally we went to the same Church together for 10 years.
Well, you know, I read both of Mr. Weinland's books almost a year ago and back then it all clicked true instantly, nothing in the world is going to convince me of anything else, especially right now. I mean just look at what's happening in the news everyday… Giving money is not an issue in my case anyway, since I don't have an income.If you know Mr. Weinland personally why don't you at least give him a chance and read his books, so if what he says really comes to pass starting in about 2 months, you will be informed as to what he has or has not predicted. Then you can still pass judgment even if he's wrong…
Quote (WaterAmerican @ Feb. 24 2008,06:56) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 23 2008,20:30) Hello again! Please I want to warn you of Mr. Weinland. I do not know how He things God selected Him as one of the Witnesses. If I would be you, don't waste your Money on Him =rather give it to a poor Widow or a child in Africa hat is starving. I know Mr. Weinland personally we went to the same Church together for 10 years.
Well, you know, I read both of Mr. Weinland's books almost a year ago and back then it all clicked true instantly, nothing in the world is going to convince me of anything else, especially right now. I mean just look at what's happening in the news everyday… Giving money is not an issue in my case anyway, since I don't have an income.If you know Mr. Weinland personally why don't you at least give him a chance and read his books, so if what he says really comes to pass starting in about 2 months, you will be informed as to what he has or has not predicted. Then you can still pass judgment even if he's wrong…
You are right about that, I did order His Book. One of our former members that I stay in touch with, that goes to the Philadelphia Trumpet Church of God, has a copy and has read all. He too said lets see what will happen, time will tell. I am in Go's Hand and I really don't worry about anything about what is going to happen. I have Faith in Jesus Christ that He will not loose me. That is His promise to me.
Peace and Love Mrs.Greetings Brethren and hope you are having a great Sabbath!
Here is a link to the sermon in case you missed it live.
http://www.fantasysportstech.com/cog/index.htmHi discipleelohim.
I looked through previous posts in this discussion and I couldn't see an answer to a post I directed at you earlier.
I was asking if you would personally apologize to the readers here if the events you describe do not happen in the time period you say it will.
In that instance, will you apologize for promoting the teachings of a false prophet/teacher, or will you quietly slip away?
I think this is important because I want to know whether you are willing to be accountable with the message you are bringing here.
If you are willing to be accountable, then in April/May you will either be saying I told you so, or you will give an apology.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
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