- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (kerwin @ April 21 2010,21:26) Quote (terraricca @ April 21 2010,12:20) Quote (kerwin @ April 21 2010,17:13) Terrarica, I am not sure that you understand me correctly as I did not explicitly state what I meant. If one is in fear of punishment and yet does not change their ways then they do not truly fear God. The fear of God leads you to either change your ways and do what is right or not to sin. I suppose that you can also call that respect as your fear is based on your belief God is just.
KWdo you think i walk in ignorance of my God will ?
i know him to the core of my bones, God is love and if you love him with a true heart you can feel his love
Most likely to some extent you do walk in ignorance of the Lord and so need further training. That is easy to assertain if you yet sin for that is proof of some ignorance. It is for this reason that the Holy Spirit is teaching us until we are fully mature in the Anointed One.As for whether you seek God and his righteousness I leave that up to you to decide. The only thing I hope to do is to remove obstacles and point out the road signs. I hope you strive to do the same.
I also realize that the evil one will try to trick us and lead us astray and thus we need to be on our guard and beg God to guide us true.
KWif you sin it is not because of your ignorance but because of not enough self control on your flesh ,read James,Timothy
it also show that you have to improve your spirit fruits for more control.
it is true our knowledge is limited to what God give us,but never to the extend of not knowing the one you serve.
Kerwin…….Your faith seems to be based on Paranoia, a fear based religion is not based on the LOVE of GOD ” For NOTHING is PERFECTED IN FEAR”. You Profess GOD but seem to deny His POWER to Change US to conform to His WILL. I have posted specific Scriptures that deal with the Ideology of fear religion . But you still fail to Deal with them , But just expect us to believe you have , but the truth is you completely ignore them and then try to use some off the wall statement that Satan is trying to trick people, which only show the degree of you (FEARS) and Unbelief in the POWER of GOD to Keep and guide the minds of His Childern. Do you really think a person who has GOD Spirit OF TRUTH in Him can ever be decieved. You speak as all FEAR BASED RELIGIONS DO. You would make a real good FIRE and BRIMSTONE Preacher, the world is full of these type all proclaiming to be of GOD.
Fear religion is For the ungodly and sinner, but we are not lead by a SPIRIT of FEAR as YOU seem to be. If we do what is right it has nothing to do with Fear, But of LOVE and in Love there is (NO) Fear. Why do you ignore this (” FOR NOTHING IS PERFECTED IN FEAR”) Your inference that other are trying to mislead people is exactly what you are doing by saying FEAR of GOD is what is saving you. Fear is the opposite of true FAITH, the demons and devils fear and tremble and so do all who abide in unbelief, Just as it say the fearful and unbelieving will have their part in the lake of fire.
Tell me this you who Love FEAR Religion………Would you like a Surgeon to operate on you with His mind fearful and operating with trembling hands, or would you like an Confident Surgeon who Knows what he is doing and Has confidence and FAITH he can perform the operation successfully. FEAR (in the ENGLISH) is a source of Paranoia and is a sign of FAITHLESSNESS. That is why it say the Fearful and unbelieving will have their part in the lake of fire. IT says it that way because the FEARFUL (ARE) the UNBELIEVING> Those who have true Faith have True Trust in GOD and His ability to Guide them and Protect them. All who use FEAR based RELIGION, Lear people into their control , and it works for the CARNAL MINDED, but those who have the Spirit of GOD can easily see through this.
If we truly LOVE GOD we WILL respect and have Reverence for him and what he says. But that is (NOT) FEAR. GOD does not want his childern to (FEAR) Him he want us to LOVE HIM and PUT all our Confidence in HIM. Fear religion is the Religion of the Evil ONE and Has no part in the work of GOD with HIS Childern . We should not sin, (NOT) because WE FEAR GOD , But because Living HIS WAY is the Way of PEACE and Happiness and produces soundness of mind and is the right way to live.
Kerwin come out of the OLD TESTAMENT IT is a FEAR BASED Religion, USED to control the ungodly and sinners the CARNAL minded man. If your are being made right through the operation of FEAR , you truely are not being made Right at all. Love and FEAR do not go together, One is of FAITH the OTHER is based in unbelief, and self salvation efforts from the SELF. We are saved BY GRACE and not of ourselves NOT by Works least any should Boast. True Righteousness is a CREATION of GOD (IN) us, your eyes seem to be on the SELF not on GOD, by FAITH. IMO
It would serve you better if you truly understood the Word translated as FEAR , to mean respect and reverence. Reverence is by far the best meaning for that word, because that comes from LOVE. I Loved my earthly Father I never FEARED Him even when He disciplined me i know he did it out of LOVE for ME, and I see our Heavenly FATHER the SAME WAY, LIKE KING DAVID DID. ” THY ROD AND THY STAFF DOTH COMFORT ME”> LOVE and FAITH. IMO
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote Tell me this you who Love FEAR Religion………Would you like a Surgeon to operate on you with His mind fearful and operating with trembling hands, or would you like an Confident Surgeon who Knows what he is doing and Has confidence and FAITH he can perform the operation successfully.
So you advocate an unjust God and call my religion a fear religion. Your God is false and does not exist for the true God just and his commands are not harmful as that actions of the “fearful” surgeon you describe.
You even contradict yourself by asking me if I fear being operated on by a surgeon with a fearful mind and trembling hands. I am wise enough to fear that surgeon as well as the one who has confidence and faith but not nerveless is incompetent and thus does not have the works.
The surgeon I would rather have working on me is the one whose fear of failure causes him to learn to do his job right and to double check his own work to make sure he did as he intended to.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote Kerwin come out of the OLD TESTAMENT IT is a FEAR BASED Religion, …
God does not change. He is the same God that was the God of the Old Testament. Since your God is a different God he is a false God and made up by the minds of man.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote I Loved my earthly Father I never FEARED Him even when He disciplined me i know he did it out of LOVE for ME, and I see our Heavenly FATHER the SAME WAY, LIKE KING DAVID DID. ” THY ROD AND THY STAFF DOTH COMFORT ME”> LOVE and FAITH.
You are contradicting yourself again as that scripture comes from the Old Testament which you state preached a “Fear Based Religion.”
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote …even when He disciplined me I know he did it out of LOVE for ME,…
This statement contradict your whole post. I say this because if God loves you as you claim then he commands you not to do what is harmful to you. If you believe that then you also agree with God and believe that what he commands you not to do is harmful and thus you seek to avoid it as you fear the results of not doing so.
This confuses me so I do not know if you preach a just God but have communication difficulties or that you preach an unjust God.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote Your faith seems to be based on Paranoia, a fear based religion is not based on the LOVE of GOD ” For NOTHING is PERFECTED IN FEAR”.
I have already addressed your unreasonable classification of vastly different types of fear in the same general class. When you do that you call what is good evil and you can also call what is evil good. You need to be careful. Scripture also states to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”, Philippians 2:12, and scripture cannot be broken.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote You Profess GOD but seem to deny His POWER to Change US to conform to His WILL.
I have never stated that God cannot give a human being a new spirit and a new heart. I have stated that he cannot give a human being a new soul. The soul I consider equivalent to a vessel and some God created for a noble purpose and others he created for common uses. The nature of things is there is no way to change a vessel from common one to a noble one without destroying it, though you can fill it with either noble of common contents. Still, whatever it is filled with does not change its purpose.
terraricca,
I am basing my understanding mostly on John 14:26 and Galatians 5:16-26.
Could you please be more specific about the particular scriptures you base your understanding on? Thank you!
Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2010,04:58) terraricca, I am basing my understanding mostly on John 14:26 and Galatians 5:16-26.
Could you please be more specific about the particular scriptures you base your understanding on? Thank you!
KWJn 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Jn 14:25 “All this I have spoken while still with you.
Jn 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Jn 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraidall is in the spirit and obedience to Christ.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.if by any means KW you believe i have become conceited or provoking etc,please let me know i will put a end to it.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote if by any means KW you believe i have become conceited or provoking etc,please let me know i will put a end to it.
I enjoy communicasting with you as long as I fell the conversation is progressing.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote if you sin it is not because of your ignorance but because of not enough self control on your flesh ,read James,Timothy
When I state that the spirit is teaching us not to sin I include self control in my definition of not sinning. Self control is an atribute of Love.
In short the spirit of righteousness teaces us how not to sin but as you state we sin because of lack of self control.
We can never be righteous by our self; when we except Jesus as our Lord and savior, his blood will cleanse us from all “unrighteousness”, and the white rope he will clothe us in is “HIS” righteousness.
Georg
Quote (Elizabeth @ April 22 2010,19:23) We can never be righteous by our self; when we except Jesus as our Lord and savior, his blood will cleanse us from all “unrighteousness”, and the white rope he will clothe us in is “HIS” righteousness. Georg
georgyou right wen you we never can become righteous or without sin,out of our own doing,
but God and Christ have showed us the way and gived us in written words the way to accomplish just that,
and this is were obediance lays in Christ to God,great love for God ,great changes in our lives small love for God small changes in our lives.
for the misups in our trial those sins will be picked up by our Lord Jesus.
Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2010,19:17) Terraricca wrote: Quote if by any means KW you believe i have become conceited or provoking etc,please let me know i will put a end to it.
I enjoy communicasting with you as long as I fell the conversation is progressing.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote if you sin it is not because of your ignorance but because of not enough self control on your flesh ,read James,Timothy
When I state that the spirit is teaching us not to sin I include self control in my definition of not sinning. Self control is an atribute of Love.
In short the spirit of righteousness teaces us how not to sin but as you state we sin because of lack of self control.
KWwe building our faith one brick at the time, in time we will see the building
Quote (Elizabeth @ April 22 2010,19:23) We can never be righteous by our self; when we except Jesus as our Lord and savior, his blood will cleanse us from all “unrighteousness”, and the white rope he will clothe us in is “HIS” righteousness. Georg
Georg………You have it right, Fear has nothing to do with it But FAITH working through LOVE. Amen brotherpeace and love to you and Irene………………………gene
Quote (terraricca @ April 23 2010,01:15) Quote (Elizabeth @ April 22 2010,19:23) We can never be righteous by our self; when we except Jesus as our Lord and savior, his blood will cleanse us from all “unrighteousness”, and the white rope he will clothe us in is “HIS” righteousness. Georg
georgyou right wen you we never can become righteous or without sin,out of our own doing,
but God and Christ have showed us the way and gived us in written words the way to accomplish just that,
and this is were obediance lays in Christ to God,great love for God ,great changes in our lives small love for God small changes in our lives.
for the misups in our trial those sins will be picked up by our Lord Jesus.
Terraricca……..You have that right also, As long as we are in these flesh bodies we will still have sin, because as Paul's said “FOR THERE IS NOT GOOD IN MY BODY, BECAUSE TO WILL IS PRESENT IN ME”. We all struggle with these bodies and influences in this world, but we can all go to the throne of GOD and find Help in our time of need. ” FOR HE IS JUST TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS (AND) CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS”. Notice not just forgive us but (CLEANS) us . Fear has nothing to do with it , But FAITH working through LOVE.Fear-mongers will all have their part in the lake of fire as scripture says.
Rev 21:8….> But the (FEARFUL), and (UNBELIEVING), and abominable and murders,and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Fear mongers are not driven by FAITH in GOD no matter what they say , but dread of him. They are not being made right by the LOVE of GOD Operating (IN) them . Because it plainly say (NOTHING IS PERFECTED IN FEAR) So no matter what they espouse, they do NO believe that GOD HIMSELF (CAN) Perfect us and cleans us from (ALL) unrighteousness. These are those who Profess GOD But deny the POWER of GOD> There trust in in themselves not GOD, and FEAR GOD. They are drive by FEAR and so rely on the SELF to produce Righteousness they are the (SELF) RIGHTEOUS.
The word FEAR is unfortunately translated in most cases wrong it Should be understood as respect and (REVERENCE) and neither has nothing to do with (FEAR of TERROR) as they espouse. They are not even intelligent enough to think Pure Garbage teachers held in the bondage and grips of FEAR and TERRORS. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2010,04:53) Gene Balthrop wrote: Quote Tell me this you who Love FEAR Religion………Would you like a Surgeon to operate on you with His mind fearful and operating with trembling hands, or would you like an Confident Surgeon who Knows what he is doing and Has confidence and FAITH he can perform the operation successfully.
So you advocate an unjust God and call my religion a fear religion. Your God is false and does not exist for the true God just and his commands are not harmful as that actions of the “fearful” surgeon you describe.
You even contradict yourself by asking me if I fear being operated on by a surgeon with a fearful mind and trembling hands. I am wise enough to fear that surgeon as well as the one who has confidence and faith but not nerveless is incompetent and thus does not have the works.
The surgeon I would rather have working on me is the one whose fear of failure causes him to learn to do his job right and to double check his own work to make sure he did as he intended to.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote Kerwin come out of the OLD TESTAMENT IT is a FEAR BASED Religion, …
God does not change. He is the same God that was the God of the Old Testament. Since your God is a different God he is a false God and made up by the minds of man.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote I Loved my earthly Father I never FEARED Him even when He disciplined me i know he did it out of LOVE for ME, and I see our Heavenly FATHER the SAME WAY, LIKE KING DAVID DID. ” THY ROD AND THY STAFF DOTH COMFORT ME”> LOVE and FAITH.
You are contradicting yourself again as that scripture comes from the Old Testament which you state preached a “Fear Based Religion.”
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote …even when He disciplined me I know he did it out of LOVE for ME,…
This statement contradict your whole post. I say this because if God loves you as you claim then he commands you not to do what is harmful to you. If you believe that then you also agree with God and believe that what he commands you not to do is harmful and thus you seek to avoid it as you fear the results of not doing so.
This confuses me so I do not know if you preach a just God but have communication difficulties or that you preach an unjust God.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote Your faith seems to be based on Paranoia, a fear based religion is not based on the LOVE of GOD ” For NOTHING is PERFECTED IN FEAR”.
I have already addressed your unreasonable classification of vastly different types of fear in the same general class. When you do that you call what is good evil and you can also call what is evil good. You need to be careful. Scripture also states to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”, Philippians 2:12, and scripture cannot be broken.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote You Profess GOD but seem to deny His POWER to Change US to conform to His WILL.
I have never stated that God cannot give a human being a new spirit and a new heart. I have stated that he cannot give a human being a new soul. The soul I consider equivalent to a vessel and some God created for a noble purpose and others he created for common uses. The nature of things is there is no way to change a vessel from common one to a noble one without destroying it, though you can fill it with either noble of common contents. Still, whatever it is filled with does not change its purpose.
Kerwin…… twisting what is said seems to be you expertise here. So you would rather have a surgeon fear and trembling cut on you right?, One who droughts what he is doing, well good for you , I ll take the One who is confident with his Knowledge and has a steady hand full well knowing what he is doing.It appears You don't even understand what the word FEAR in the English language means or implies, and completely misunderstand that the word in most parts in scripture means respect and reverence.
I have notice you fail to deal directly with Posted quotes , then say you have when ask about why you fail to directly deal with them , I have quoted many scriptures and you simply change subject or ignore or take specific parts of my posts and twist them out of context. This I see as real deception on you part.
peace and love………………gene
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote I have notice you fail to deal directly with Posted quotes , then say you have when ask about why you fail to directly deal with them
I address them in the way God leads me to address them. If you believe I am misunderstanding what you are saying then please feel clarify your point. I do admit that I often find your posts confusing.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote twisting what is said seems to be you expertise here
That is an accusation. Do you perhaps mean that I misunderstand you. If that is the case then if you can. you should work at making yourself more understandable,
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote So you would rather have a surgeon fear and trembling cut on you right?, One who droughts what he is doing, well good for you , I ll take the One who is confident with his Knowledge and has a steady hand full well knowing what he is doing.
Did you even read my response? Perhaps you just did not understand it. I see no reason to repeat it again but I will strive to clarify it. There is a third option and that is the qualified surgeon who tests his work to make sure he is doing the job right. An arrogant surgeon can be as much danger as one who is poorly trained.
Paul addresses this issue in his letter to Timothy with these words.
1 Timothy 4:16(KJV) reads:
Quote Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
I assume you are not speaking of a surgeon that is confident he has more knowledge than he does. Even a surgeon with the required knowledge can make errors and thus must test his knowledge and his work just as Paul instructed Timothy to do.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote It appears You don't even understand what the word FEAR in the English language means or implies, and completely misunderstand that the word in most parts in scripture means respect and reverence.
In the English language it can mean that but it still means fear as in “an emotion experienced in anticipation of some specific pain or danger (usually accompanied by a desire to flee or fight)”, Sin being the danger and temptation being the threat of danger that causes you to fight against it or run from it. That is why we are taught:
James 4:7(KJV) reads:
Quote Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Note: I obtained my definition for “fear” from WordNet Search 3.0 at wordnetweb.princeton.edu.
Quote (terraricca @ April 22 2010,20:17) Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2010,19:17) Terraricca wrote: Quote if by any means KW you believe i have become conceited or provoking etc,please let me know i will put a end to it.
I enjoy communicasting with you as long as I fell the conversation is progressing.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote if you sin it is not because of your ignorance but because of not enough self control on your flesh ,read James,Timothy
When I state that the spirit is teaching us not to sin I include self control in my definition of not sinning. Self control is an atribute of Love.
In short the spirit of righteousness teaces us how not to sin but as you state we sin because of lack of self control.
KWwe building our faith one brick at the time, in time we will see the building
That is what I also believe.Kerwin…….Your adding another type of scenario into what i have said is exactly what i was talking about, by not seeing my point it is just a diversion from what i was saying. Look let me give you another example a personal experience . Once I was a Electrican in a Large Plant and studing in clooedge to become an electrical Engineer , I understood Electric work better then most did , I was as sure of what i was doing as a Skilled Sergon is even in dangerious situations i was a calm and accurate in what i was doing I could work very clalmly very dangerous and potential life threating situations, My hand was every bit as steady as an Surgeons Hand is, Until one day I was removing a Starter from a control Panel< I always would take out the two bottom screws first and the proceed to take out the top screw and very carefully remove the starter, I had done this many times before , But this time i have forgot to remove one of the bottom screws and when i loosened it, the starter swing over across a main Buss bar and an explosion and intense arch flash which half way blinded me for about a hour. Now after that had happened to me i noticed that when i got into a potential dangerous situation my hands would begin to shake, which created even a far more dangerous situation, this took me years and never really completely overcame it. That was my point is was trying to make of How FEAR produces phobias and doubts and works against true Faith. FEAR as understood in the English language has NO PLACE in a true Christians life. When we come to KNOW the LOVE of GOD we certainly do not FEAR HIM. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2010,08:48) GB,
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
But it is not terror.
nickif you respect the word of God ,you are giving him glory,you also honor him,and if you recognize him as your creator and master this is worshiping him,this is all what he ever ask all of us to do.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2010,10:11) Hi T,
So you say.
But does scripture?
nickwhat you think does scriptures support what i quote or i invented
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
