- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (chosenone @ April 17 2010,17:44) terraricca.
You give a lengthly post in “righteousness in Gods eyes”. I believe you make the same mistakes as many believers, that all scripture is about us. Yes, all scripture is FOR us, but not all scripture is ABOUT us. This is what Pauls says in 2Tim.2:15, that “we must correctly cut the word of truth”.All those scripture you quoted… Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclessiastes, Isaiah, Amos, Zechariah, were all written for Israel, His (Gods) 'chosen people'. Their salvation, entrance in the 'promised land', was obedience to the “law”, given by God to Moses for them under the “old covenant”. You must remember that the rest of mankind, in that era, referred to as “the Nations', had no part with God. See (Eph.2:11-12) …11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands —
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.See also Ro.15.8 …8 For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises.
And Ro.15:15-16 …15 Yet more daringly do I (Paul) write to you, in part, as prompting you, because of the grace being given to me from God,
16 for me to be the minister of Christ Jesus for the nations, acting as a priest of the evangel of God, that the approach present of the nations may be becoming well received, having been hallowed by holy spirit.You would get a better understanding of scripture if you would understand that ALL scripure is FOR us, but NOT ALL scripture is ABOUT us.
I realise that you must read and study the scriptures relentlessly, and I commend you for that, but try and understand to whom these are written for. Try to see the difference between scriptures written for Israel, while under the “Old Covenant” while under the law, and scripture written by the apostle Paul that are for “the nations”.
Let me quote a scripture for you that applies to us in this era. 2Cor.5:18-19 …18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
All have been justified, God sees our sin no more. Yes, I realise that all mankind has yet not accepted Gods gift to us, through Christ Jesus, but all eventually will. See 1Cor,15:24-28 …24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)Bod Bless, Jerry.
COi am sad to see that you have no understanding in scriptures you try to prevent your selve of doing nothing to be saved,by believing that God does not require anything from us to do.
it is written ;to obey.
it is written you will love God
it is written you should make God your live;
it is written you should be holy
it is written you should not lie
it is witten much more,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this is from God and God does not change, but you have come back to what is the truth.
Terraricca…………..You quote all these Old Testament scriptures written to people who (DID NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD (IN) THEM. They were under the old covenant under the LAW (forced compliance) they were being forced to obey and had to be constantly reminded of their obedient requirements. But they (ALL) but few chosen by God, failed to attain to GOD'S requirements they were (ALL) unfaithful a Faithless Generation, They were not changed no matter how much they tried, Why? because there was no such Heart (IN) them. Your using these to justify your personal religion of SELF WORKS, only shows you fail to see and understand this.
You don't really understand “YOU ARE SAVED BY (GRACE) NOT OF YOURSELVES, NOT BY WORK OF LAW , IT IS A (GIFT) FROM GOD.
Teraricca………….Put the self to death, and die with Christ Jesus, and through FAITH except the (GIFT) of Righteousness From GOD not from the SELF. “FOR HE (God) WORKS IN US (BOTH) TO WILL AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE.”
Your self seeking righteousness only produces accusations toward others, because of your lack of understanding the truth. Chosenone is exactly right in what he has told you. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
Gene.
Thanks for your agreeing, it is so disappointing to see one take the Glory away from God, and place their accomplishment on themselves. Such pride is oneself is shameful.Blessings.
Gene Balthrop,
You need to read the old testament again because it is not about forced compliance. It is true that those who obey God also fear to disobey him but in addition the love God's law.
Psalms 119(52-54) reads:
Quote I remember your ancient laws, O LORD,
and I find comfort in them.Indignation grips me because of the wicked,
who have forsaken your law.Your decrees are the theme of my song
wherever I lodge.Your failure to realize God is a just God and not given to false mercy as you are inclined to is amazing. Do not be deceived for if you do right; you will have no reason to fear discipline from God. But if you do evil; God will send an avenging angel to reap the just cost of you actions. God is forgiving for he forgives those who change their ways and not those who choose to wallow in their sins. In short God does not follow your ways but it is up to you to follow his.
gene
you have been blind to the word of God for quite some time,are you so blind in your heart that God can not reach you any more,?
let God be find true,not men ,:Rev 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life
Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
Kerwin….”FALSE Mercy”…………Where do you get that from?. The very scriptures you are quoting are from an (EXCEPTION), A man Chosen By GOD through His GRACE. But to assume everyone thought that way is pure foolishness, because GOD Plainly said He looked for (ONE) righteous and could find NONE, therefore He took it upon His OWN Arm to Bring salvation.
I do not fear God's Discipline because as David, I know it is His Love for me being expressed by His discipline. That is what David meant when he said “thy rod and thy staff does (COMFORT) me”. God has concluded (ALL) (including you ) UNDER SIN, that He might have Mercy upon (ALL)”. And you have the NERVE to say, this is A(FALSE) Mercy.
Kerwin………When are you going to come out from under the works of the LAW (Law (IS) a force that causes compliance). Rather you see it or not , Law is a way of controlling People through the medium of (FEAR) by extracting a penalty and the Penalties cause compliance (any law makers knows that) , so that should not be hard for you to understand. But no matter how many laws are made that can (NEVER) Change a Mans HEART no matter How much FEAR is Produced in a Person to comply, It will never make that Person right (IN) His Heart , that requires a (CREATION) that (ONLY) GOD can Perform , that is why we are saved BY GRACE and NOT BY WORKS of LAW. I think it is You who need to read both the old and the new testament again to properly understand what is clearly written, a good Start would be ROMANS and GALATIANS.
Kerwin Professing GOD But denying His power is what i see you doing here. Out of the one side of your mouth you profess GOD but out of the other you seem to deny his power to Change a Person and cause Him to walk in his ways through the POWER of His SPIRIT. Here is something for you to Chew on , Why did Jesus tell his apostle to remain in Jerusalem until they recieve (POWER) from on HIGH> If it was up to them they would have never attained to their calling and they proved this by denying Christ, even though they had been with him for three and a half years. But after they were Empower from on HIGH they even gave their lives for Christ and GOD'S purpose. No my friend it is you who is caring a false hope in the SELF COMPLIANCE which is causing a righteousness of the SELF. WE are waiting for that righteousness to come and be delievered from these bodies of death as Paul plainly said. We fully know that there is (NO) Good in our bodies BECAUSE TO (WILL) IS (STILL) PRESENT IN US. And we thank GOD that we will be delivered from these bodies of death through Jesus Christ our Lord. You seem to think because we speak of the GRACE FROM GOD that somehow that equates to Saying it is OK To SIN. That is pure ignorance on you part, God Forbid that any of us should Sin. Your lack of belief that GOD the FATHER can CREATE Righteousness IN US is what is FALSE HERE , Not our assumptions of a FALSE MERCY, in fact it appears you believe in NO MERCY from GOD. Being you are a SELF Salivation-est What does Jesus death even mean to you, because your trust seem to be in your SELF WORKS through LAW, So GRACE has no place for YOU right? You seem to have things backwards GRACE if YOU OBEY by KEEPING the LAW, that is nothing more than SELF SALVATION, those who believe that way have (NO) Need for GRACE at all. No one is saying the LAW is not JUST and HOLY HERE, but you see that is not that Point , the point is HOW do WE get where we can comply to the law , it is BY the GRACE of GOD ONLY> IMO
peace and love…………..gene
Terraricca……….Are you now telling me what GOD can and Can not do, and what makes you so sure you are not the one Blind Here, Accusing others seem to be the only thing your good at Here. None of what you have quoted has any thing to do with this subject, Just more of your false accusations, produced by the one you are following. I will let you decide who you think that is.
peace and love…………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2010,02:50) Terraricca……….Are you now telling me what GOD can and Can not do, and what makes you so sure you are not the one Blind Here, Accusing others seem to be the only thing your good at Here. None of what you have quoted has any thing to do with this subject, Just more of your false accusations, produced by the one you are following. I will let you decide who you think that is. peace and love…………….gene
geneGod can do all things , but what he does not do is rewarding the wicket ones ,and the sinners,and the rebels,and the ones who deny his son ,by not obey his words.
Terraricca……….If you were obeying His Son then you would not go around accusing others and Judging them. You would believe where it says “Judge nothing before the time”. It also says a Hypocrite will have his part in the lakes of fire. “He who condemns another condemns Himself.”
Now tell me Where have I or for that matter anyone here ever said GOD rewards the wicked, and the sinners, and the rebels and the ones who deny his son when they do not obey him. Trying to make it appear that way is Your false assumptions that comes from your own Heart not mine or anyone else's here. IMO
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2010,04:33) Terraricca……….If you were obeying His Son then you would not go around accusing others and Judging them. You would believe where it says “Judge nothing before the time”. It also says a Hypocrite will have his part in the lakes of fire. “He who condemns another condemns Himself.” Now tell me Where have I or for that matter anyone here ever said GOD rewards the wicked, and the sinners, and the rebels and the ones who deny his son when they do not obey him. Trying to make it appear that way is Your false assumptions that comes from your own Heart not mine or anyone else's here. IMO
genescriptures say to test all spirits to see if they are from God.
i do what scriptures says to do,if i judge you quote of not being scriptural then you would not have a problem to show it to me,
but i take in account that you are well aware of what you are teaching do to the fact that you have great knowledge in scriptures,
what i do not understand why you go in so great length not to fallow Christ and the apostles teachings?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2010,02:34) Kerwin………When are you going to come out from under the works of the LAW (Law (IS) a force that causes compliance). peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,Are we to believe you now believe in “Free Will” by your current words?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 19 2010,12:11) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2010,02:34) Kerwin………When are you going to come out from under the works of the LAW (Law (IS) a force that causes compliance). peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,Are we to believe you now believe in “Free Will” by your current words?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edjhere is a other one;Terraricca……….If you were obeying His Son then you would not go around accusing others and Judging them
he understand that it is of my free will that i do what i do.
and he knows i can change my course if i wish
Gene wrote:
Quote When are you going to come out from under the works of the LAW (Law (IS) a force that causes compliance).
I sure do not remember scripture ever stating that Law is a force that causes compliance. God is rather incompetent if that was his intent as no one is righteous under the law and God is not incompetent.. It is written that the law was established to make us aware of sin. It certainly advocates disciplining wrongdoers but it also allowed for the atonement and remission of sins. It also called people to change so they would not perish. The Law itself is about mercy which is why God declared I desire mercy and not sacrifice.
Gene wrote:
Quote Kerwin Professing GOD But denying His power is what i see you doing here. Out of the one side of your mouth you profess GOD but out of the other you seem to deny his power to Change a Person and cause Him to walk in his ways through the POWER of His SPIRIT.
Why would I stoop to using God’s power as an excuse to accuse him of doing evil? I refuse to do that. What purpose is their in destroying a person’s soul and creating a new one with the same name? It is the soul that either hungers and thirsts for righteousness or loves the darkness and to change that is to destroy it. God calls all men to get a new spirit and a new heard but where does he call them to get a new soul?
Do you think that the Holy Spirit was doing evil when Isaiah spoke these words:
Isaiah 26:10-11(KJV) reads:
Quote Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD. LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.
Gene wrote:
Quote Your lack of belief that GOD the FATHER can CREATE Righteousness IN US is what is FALSE HERE
God sheds his grace on us in many ways including when he chooses to create us and thus our soul with the desire to hunger and thirst for righteousness but he does not choose to show that grace to all which is why it is written “I have mercy on who I have mercy and compassion on whom I have compassion”. He further sheds his grace on us by giving us the spirit of righteousness that creates righteousness but that promise is only for those that hunger and thirst for righteousness; as they are those Jesus addressed. His grace includes that he forgives us the sins committed beforehand if we walk by the spirit through the faith he also installed in us.
Even under the law it is stated that the righteous live by faith and God shed his grace on them as well as us.
Jesus uttered the warning “change your ways or perish” and you too should do as he did and still does.
Kewin…….> You say Law is not a force that causes compliance, the Law is only Law (IF) it can extract a Penalty. Scripture say “the law is for the Ungodly and sinner”. Have you forgotten that and it also say we are (NOT) (UNDER) the (WORKS) of the Law. “For no man shall be justified by (WORKS) of LAW. Now with that understanding (if you need i can quote the scriptures ) but i think you should by now know them, Now a question for you what does it mean to be (UNDER) something? Does it not mean it is what is controlling you. So how does Law control a person is it not by the penalties it extracts for disobedience, This penalty attached to the law cause fear of violation of it. Law therefore causes a controlling effect on a person, but that control can Never Change the Mind and Heart of that Person, No more that a speed law can change your heart and mind. Lets go back to where the law was given and see what it was for .
Ex 20:19…..> And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us , and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we (DIE). .Now Notice ,..20..> And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: because God is come to prove you, and that His (FEAR) may be before your faces, WHY?, that ye sin not.
This is where and How the LAW was given, but did they even with the Fear obey (NO) their Hearts were not one ounce different then before except for (FEAR) had been placed their in order for them to not sin. This is what is the force that still drives the SELF Righteous those who seek to be JUSTIFIED by WORKS of LAW. Rather then by the GRACE and effectual working of the SPIRIT of GOD.
So who is saying the Law is Not holy and Just and GOOD You see that is not the point being made here, it is are we (MADE) right By how (LAW WORKS) that is the point not should we walk in accordance to the Laws of GOD, it the motive behind that walk that counts, what is (CAUSING) IT. That is Mine and Paul's Point. again (NO) man is (JUSTIFIED) by obedience to Law . A man is Justified by GOD through Jesus Christ, and is Changed (IN) his Heart by the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD. and that has nothing to do with the way the Law (WORKS).
” The Gentiles who have (NOT) the law but do the thing contained in the law, Show the Law written on their Hears by the Hand of GOD”. You could have never heard of the law at any time in your life and still fulfill all it requirements. By being transformed by the renewing of your MIND by the Hand of GOD. Again the Law is HOLY Just and GOOD , but it has never (Change anyone) or made them right in their hearts and minds. Only GOD can do that.
Kerwin, true righteousness is a (CREATION), it has Nothing to do with works of LAW. Fear is a controller and GOD used Fear to Control those unfaithful Israelites, just as fear is used today in our laws because the penalties attached to those laws.The carnal mind is not subject to the Laws of GOD neither indeed can be, but the carnal mind (IS) subject to FEAR. Remember what Moses said “THAT THE FEAR OF HIM BE BEFORE YOUR EYES, (SO THAT YOU SIN NOT). So are you what is you motivation is it (FEAR) or LOVE, the Love of GOD shed around in you heart? One has an appearance of a white washed Sepulcher, looks good on the outside , but inside is full of dead mens bones. We are Changed by GOD, CREATED Unto Good works, True Righteousness is attained through the POWER of GOD, not works of Law. GOD the Father makes us clean on the (INSIDE) that the outside may be clean also. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2010,12:11) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2010,02:34) Kerwin………When are you going to come out from under the works of the LAW (Law (IS) a force that causes compliance). peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,Are we to believe you now believe in “Free Will” by your current words?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J………..I see nothing there that would suggest anything about “FREE” WILLS , but that is not to say their WILLS could not be (INFLUENCED) to Change. This is the problem of taking thing out of context, and quoting parts of a sentence or Paragraph, many do that with Scriptures also and you can prove anything that way, by corrupting the jest of what is being discussed. Think about it>love and peace to you and yours………….gene
Quote (terraricca @ April 19 2010,15:25) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2010,12:11) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2010,02:34) Kerwin………When are you going to come out from under the works of the LAW (Law (IS) a force that causes compliance). peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,Are we to believe you now believe in “Free Will” by your current words?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edjhere is a other one;Terraricca……….If you were obeying His Son then you would not go around accusing others and Judging them
he understand that it is of my free will that i do what i do.
and he knows i can change my course if i wish
Terraricca……..Wrong I understand it is Your (INFLUENCED) WILL causing you to do what you do. Nothing “FREE” about it.peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (terraricca @ April 19 2010,15:25) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2010,12:11) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2010,02:34) Kerwin………When are you going to come out from under the works of the LAW (Law (IS) a force that causes compliance). peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,Are we to believe you now believe in “Free Will” by your current words?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edjhere is a other one;Terraricca……….If you were obeying His Son then you would not go around accusing others and Judging them
he understand that it is of my free will that i do what i do.
and he knows i can change my course if i wish
Hi Terraricca,Jer:48:10: Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and
cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 20 2010,04:16) Quote (terraricca @ April 19 2010,15:25) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2010,12:11) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2010,02:34) Kerwin………When are you going to come out from under the works of the LAW (Law (IS) a force that causes compliance). peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,Are we to believe you now believe in “Free Will” by your current words?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edjhere is a other one;Terraricca……….If you were obeying His Son then you would not go around accusing others and Judging them
he understand that it is of my free will that i do what i do.
and he knows i can change my course if i wish
Hi Terraricca,Jer:48:10: Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and
cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjgene as made up his mind and as set is influence in men who long ago have predetermined that there is a other way to worship God,
and that is to blame everything on God so that we can go free in our sinful nature,
he is right we are all influenced by what is available to us but what he can not understand is that between all the influence that are offered our free will to pick which of the influence we want to be subdued to.and that i do not know if he does that purposely or by ignorance??Gene,
I am sorry but my time is limited so I will only address some of your post briefly. I will try to remember to address more thoroughly later.
If a person obeys the law completely then they are not under the law since they have done nothing that deems them worthy of the discipline, atonement, or remission of sins. It is only the ungodly and sinners who require these things.
Jesus rebuked some for cleaning the outside of the vessel without cleaning the inside. To perform deeds that appear to be righteous , i.e. the works of the law, without being motivated by the spirit of righteousness is offensive to God. This was even true of those under the law, such as the ones Jesus rebuked. Old Testament Scripture addresses such individuals by stating “they worship me with their mouths but their hearts are far from me“.
Have you not heard Jesus teach us to asses the cost of our actions. In doing this we still make a choice whether there are and migrating circumstances that may contribute to our choice. A penalty for disobedience does not force compliance to the law. If it did then the police would surely be out of work.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
