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Hi,
The start of Rev 13 seems to describe the beast as a kingdom -many horns and heads-and then it gradually seems to focus on one person-v12 -the one whose fatal wound was healed.Hi ,
Who wants to help us understand the great tribulation?Are we to be protected through it as in Ps 91?Hi guys,
This is today's and tomorrow's news. We need to make it our number one project if we are to earn the blessing it promises.Hi,
Rev 14.4f
” These are the ones who have not been defiled with women,
for they are celibates
These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes
These have been purchased from among men
as first fruits to God and the Lamb”cf
2Cor 11.2
“For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy:
for I betrothed you to one husband
that to Christ I might present you
as a pure virgin.
But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness,
your minds should be led astray
from the simplicity of devotion to Christ”
So the matter is not of physical sexuality.
Woman does not defile man.
Only the Whore does.
And the Whore dresses her doctrinal daughters in the most attractive dresses.Prov 5.3f
“For the lips of an adulteress drip honey
and smoother than oil is her speech;
but in the end she is bitter as wormwood,
sharp as a twoedged sword
he feet go down to death,
her steps lay hold of Sheol
She does not ponder the path of life
Her ways are unstable, she does not know it
Now then My sons, listen to Me
And DO NOT DEPART FROM THE WORDS OF MY MOUTH.
Keep your way far from her
and do not go by the door of her house
lest you give your vigour to others
and your years to the cruel one”It is obedience to the demand of God that we follow Jesus into his death.
It is faithfulness to the simplicity of the Word of God.
It is being careful that we protect our mind with the helmet of salvation.
It is seeking the mind of Christ renewed according to the Word of God
It is abiding in the Word.
It is avoiding the whore and her destructive doctrines, such as trinity.Paul the Pharisee followed his mind and his conscience and he utterlly opposed the Spirit of God unto the death of many followers. He was thrown off his horse and rescued, then turned right around to become the most effective apostle of all. But he was troubled till the end by the enormity of what he had been doing previously in his blindness.
Hi,
Note that Christ is already standing on Mt Zion when the worldwide proclamation of the gospel happens.
Rev 14
Revelation 14
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
The 1 4 4 0 0 0
Rev. 14:1 “And I looked and lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.”
Having the Fathers name is to say, they are his adopted sons. When a man adopts a son, he becomes his father, and the son is called by the fathers name from then on. The Lamb of course is Jesus Christ. Mount Zion is the heavenly or spiritual Jerusalem, as is explained in,
Heb. 12:22 “But ye are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels.”
I believe the 144000 are the chosen ones from all the great multitude of saints to sit with Christ in his throne; the “few that are chosen” to be Kings.
Rev. 7:9 “After this I behold, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.”
Notice, there is no mentioning of the Fathers name written in the forehead of this great multitude. These are the Priests standing before the throne, but all will reign on the earth.
Rev. 5:10 “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth.”
Rev. 20:4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them; (the 144000) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded (killed) for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, (the Roman Emperor), neither his image, (Antichrist), neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
This entire great multitude, including the 144000, is called the first fruits, because they are all in the first resurrection. They make up what the bible calls, the bride of Christ. They have not defiled themselves with other woman, other religions,
Rev. 14:4 “These are they which were not defiled with woman; for they are virgins, these are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
This is how Paul saw the saints,
2 Cor. 11:2 “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy, for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.”
The entire great multitude of saints will be given a new nature, a spirit nature. The 144000, I believe, will be given a divine nature; they will sit with Christ in his throne, and share in his divine nature.
2 Peter 1:4 “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature…”
1 John 3:2 “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.”
Although Paul addressed all believers as the bride of Christ and as the temple of God;
1 Cor. 3:16 “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
Because he knew that the Father would do the choosing for that position to sit with Christ in his throne.
Mat. 20:23 “And he saith unto them; Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with, but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.”
To be given a new nature, a spirit nature, even a divine spirit nature, is the reward for this great multitude, the first fruits. They have all come out of great tribulations;
Rev. 7:14 “And I said unto him, Sir, thou knoweth, and he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
They all had to endure to the end, their end, first under the Romans and then the fierce anger of Antichrist,
Dan. 7:25 “And he (Antichrist) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
This great multitude, the saints, are also the only ones that will be rewarded with a spirit body, a new nature, the rest of us will remain what we are, physical human beings, just the way God had intended it;
Gen. 2:17 “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Had Adam obeyed God he would be alive today, just the way God created him, physical not spiritual. If we think that living for all eternity as human beings, is not a good deal, it’s because we have no idea what God has in store for us,
1 Cor. 2:9 “But as it is written (Is. 64:4), Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.”
Paul was allowed to see what paradise was like and he thought he was in heaven, but he was not permitted to talk about it.
2 Cor. 12:2 “I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I
cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such a one
caught up to the third heaven.’
v. 3 “And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell:
God knoweth;)
v. 4 “How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which
it is not lawful for a man to utter.”
Think, how many people spent thousands of dollars, just to look young; and how many would spend millions to live forever? And listen to what Job has to say;
Job 33:25 “His flesh shall be fresher than a childs; he shall return to the days of his youth.”
And God says; I give you eternal life for free, it’s a gift;
Rom. 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life, through
Jesus Christ our Lord.”
And all God asks in return is to love him. Read 1 Cor. 2:9 again! Isn’t that what you ask of your children?
I also want to address a question; I have never heard any one else address before. We have less than 200 (?) countries’ that make up this world, ruled by as many Kings, Presidents, and Prime Ministers, why would Jesus need 144000 kings, and millions of priests?
Rev. 3:21 “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”
Rev. 20:4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them…”
To be made a king, and given authority to rule, is the highest honor and reward for a saint. They will share in Christ’s divine nature, 2 Peter 1:4, they too will be given immortality and shine as the sun, Rev. 1:16, and they too can not be seen by any human eye.
Rev. 7:9 “After this I behold, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.”
These are the priests; but why so many and what will be their function?
In the days of Moses, priests did more than just serve in the tabernacle. As Moses received his instructions from God in the tent, he would pass them on to the priests who then would go out into the camp, and teach the people. And this is how Christ is going to teach the world, and all the dead as they are being resurrected.
1 Cor. 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
v. 23 “But every man in his own order…”
Although these priests have a spirit body, they can appear when needed.
Is. 30:19 “For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.”
Is. 65:24 “And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.”
Is. 30:20 “And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers.”
v. 21 “And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, this is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.”
There are other questions that come to mind; what happens after all the billions of dead have been resurrected? What happens when this planet becomes to small? We will, after all, be living in an environment were there is no disease, no sickness, no more wars, there will be no more death; how long would it take till we would have standing room only? How would you explain this next scripture?
Is. 9:7 “Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end…”
How can God’s kingdom continue to increase when this planet is all filled up? Well, the answer is in an obvious question; why do you think God created this vast universe? From all the billions of galaxies, planet Earth is the only one that God made suitable for man to live on, do you think it would be a problem for God to do that again? And again? And again?
Look at these next few scriptures; what do they really say?
Mat. 25:20 “And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.”
v. 21 “His lord said unto him, well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things; enter thou into the joy of thy lord.”
Remember, kings rule.
Luke 19:16 “Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound has gained ten pounds.”
v. 17 “And he said unto him, well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.”
Again, kings have authority. Are you beginning to understand why so many kings and priests? Adam lived for over 900 years, that’s hard enough for me to understand, can you even begin to imagine what it means, to live forever? To see, and I do mean see, your own family grow into the size of a nation? We wont have to make memories, holding on to them so we can look back at them, no more looking back, because there is to much to look forward to, to much to take and be part of, no more canes or wheel-chairs, us “old folks” are not just going to watch it, we will live it.
And, how long do you think is forever?
My Husband's Article
Peace and Love Mrs.Hi Mrs,
So you believe God selects only a few of the saints to be given the divine nature and become priests and rulers?I would say the few are all there are that obey the command of God and all are blessed with the divine nature which is of the Spirit of God.
I see no selection process such as you describe in scripture.
The sons of the resurrection will be as angels so will not be filling up the planet.
No suggestion that men will populate other planets is written.
Where are spirit bodies shown?
To All;
In Revelation 12 we see a woman clothed with the Son (the church). She brings forth a manchild, which is caught up to the throne of God. The woman is sought by the devil who is cast out of heaven. God gives the woman wings to fly into a wilderness place and is protected for times, times, and a half symbolizing three and a half years. The devil then makes war with the remaining saints.
This is a picture of what's to come. The seven consecutive illustrations given by Jesus are all portrayed and apply to chapter 12 of Revelation. The illustrations and parables begin in Mathew 24:36 to Mathew 25:30.
The day of the Lord comes unexpectedly. That is the essence of all the illustrations. These can only apply before the tribulation because after the tribulation commences world wide panic occurs and all believers will be seeking the literal return of Christ which takes place immediately after the tribulation.
Luke 12 says it wonderfully, “Strive to enter into the strait gate…”
Steven
Hi Steve,
It is SUN actually.
But the second 3 1/2 years of the seven year great tribulation does carry special warnings for the woman[Israel] who produced the son[Jesus]. Only if she obeys and flees as spoken by Jesus will she find the place of safety.Mk 13
14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Nick;
The woman is the church, we are the Jerusalem of God. The scripture even gives the no. of days 1260. The manchild is the company of sons of God which are made ruler over all his goods. This is one of the seven parables which apply to this time. John 16 illustrates the woman in labor, so does I Thes. 5.
Steven
ps 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Compare Zech 14
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,11:15) Nick; The woman is the church, we are the Jerusalem of God. The scripture even gives the no. of days 1260. The manchild is the company of sons of God which are made ruler over all his goods. This is one of the seven parables which apply to this time. John 16 illustrates the woman in labor, so does I Thes. 5.
Steven
Hi Steve,
Most would agree that the woman is Israel.
What do others think?Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,11:18) Nick: Zach 14 is referring to the church. The saints of God as in Psalms 150.
Steven
Hi Steve,
Ps 150
1Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.2Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
??Nick:
Psalms 149 instead of 150.
Most of the fundamentalist churches believe that natural Israel is in the center of God's plan. If you read the gospels, find as many scriptures you can about the scribes and the Pharisees and see what Jesus had to say what was going to happen to natural Israel in the Day of Judgment. Ususally he said it will be better for Sodom and Gommorah. Paul is clear that the church are the new testament Jews. The new covenant that was made with the house of Israel was fulfilled in Christ.
There is now no distinction between the gentile and the jew.
However, what is being propagated by many churches about natural Israel will pave the way for the anti-christ and the strong delusion. He will proclaim to the world that many of the saints are with him now and that all people must worship him. He proclaims he is God.
Many ministers are feeding off these lies and continuously going on free trips to Israel and reaping the profits.
Steven
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,11:15) Nick; The woman is the church, we are the Jerusalem of God. The scripture even gives the no. of days 1260. The manchild is the company of sons of God which are made ruler over all his goods. This is one of the seven parables which apply to this time. John 16 illustrates the woman in labor, so does I Thes. 5.
Steven
Hi Steve,
The 3 and a half years is mentioned frequently in Revelation being half of the tribulation.
The woman of Rev 12 produces a man child who will rule the nations with a Rod of Iron. He is caught up to the throne of God in heaven-who is this?
She has a crown of 12 stars? are they not the twelve tribes of Israel.
She is persecuted after Satan is cast down for the 1260 days. Israel cannot be raptured as they have rejected the Son of God and thus cannot receive the saving Spirit.The rest of her offspring who keep the commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus surely are Jewish believers who accept the whole bible but have not been reborn from above either?
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,11:18) Nick: Zach 14 is referring to the church. The saints of God as in Psalms 150.
Steven
Hi Steve,
This is surely why Israel must flee.
Zech 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Quote The rest of her offspring who keep the commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus surely are Jewish believers who accept the whole bible but have not been reborn from above either? Nick;
The natural Jews that reject Christ do not have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The manchild is a company of Christians that have been conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. The promise to them is to rule with a rod of iron.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 12 2008,11:15) Nick; The woman is the church, we are the Jerusalem of God. The scripture even gives the no. of days 1260. The manchild is the company of sons of God which are made ruler over all his goods. This is one of the seven parables which apply to this time. John 16 illustrates the woman in labor, so does I Thes. 5.
Steven
Hi Steve,
Does the church give birth to christians?
To join the church we become one with Christ and the church does not give birth to us but those in Christ form the church.
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