Revelation 1:8 & Revelation 1:17-18

[terraricca]

Marty
Adam introduced sin into this world through his disobedience, but every man thereafter could have obeyed God, but did not. All men have sinned. What about about Enoch? He repented and walked with God, and he did not have to go through a physical death:
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please explain those verses of Paul;

By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

[942767]

Hi Pierre:

you haven’t addressed my answer to your claims ;you totally ignore the tree of life that would make it possible to live for ever

I know about the tree of life and that Adam and Eve could have eaten of it and lived forever both before the fall and after the fall, but God cast them out of the Garden of Eden, but they did not eat of the tree of life.

God had seen all of this from the beginning, and so, what is the issue that you want to hold to here.  He made every thing by Jesus Christ, and knowing that “he was the way, the truth and the life”.

you also did not addressed the fact that man through Adam are all born in sin

I did address this.  Man was not born in sin through Adam.  By one man, Adam sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and death passed upon all men in that “all men have sinned”.

don’t get me wrong I do understand your view ,and i understand that each time it talks about Jesus coming down or going up were he was before you have to give your interpretation to those verses a thing that i do not do ,

Maybe you don’t give an interpretation because you don’t understand what is being stated?  All I can do is give you my understanding of the scriptures, and so, that is what I have done, and you say that you understand my view.  Good, I am glad that you understand.

so was Jesus the son of God that was used to speak on behalf of his father or was it the words spoken by Jesus that was in heaven and the words that were spoken by the prophets of old and those words came down to the prophets to be written or spoken to the people ,(kind of spokesperson) ?

The scripture in Hebrews 1 states that God has spoken by the prophets and by His Son.  In in John 14 Jesus makes it clear that “it was the Father doing the works through him”.  The “spirit of the Son”, that is the Word of God that Jesus would speak and obey without sin unto death on the cross, were with God from the beginning.

In the following verse of scripture, Jesus states that “he is in the Father, and the Father is in him”, and so, how is he in the Father?   It is by the Word of God that he obeyed without sin unto death on the cross.  A person is defined by  “the life that he lives”.

John 17:
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

(The name Emmanuel being interpreted “means God with us”. The name signifies his character that has been manifested through his life of obedience to God’s Word. He is not God himself, but “he is the express image of God’s person. He said in John 14 that when we have seen him(through the works that the Father was doing through him), we have seen the Father.)

 

 

[942767]

please explain those verses of Paul;

By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

(What do you want me to explain to you about these verses? You stated that because of Adam we could not escape the circle of death, but both Enoch and Elijah did.)

[terraricca]

Marty

The scripture in Hebrews 1 states that God has spoken by the prophets and by His Son.  In in John 14 Jesus makes it clear that “it was the Father doing the works through him”.  The “spirit of the Son”, that is the Word of God that Jesus would speak and obey without sin unto death on the cross, were with God from the beginning.

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the above is an opinion not scriptural

Maybe you don’t give an interpretation because you don’t understand what is being stated?  All I can do is give you my understanding of the scriptures, and so, that is what I have done, and you say that you understand my view.  Good, I am glad that you understand.

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I do not interpret scriptures unless the scriptures it self gives the meaning of it ,

 

In the following verse of scripture, Jesus states that “he is in the Father, and the Father is in him”, and so, how is he in the Father?   It is by the Word of God that he obeyed without sin unto death on the cross.  A person is defined by  “the life that he lives”.

John 17:
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

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the scripture above show clearly that it is in God’s will that all become ONE

 

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

(The name Emmanuel being interpreted “means God with us”. The name signifies his character that has been manifested through his life of obedience to God’s Word. He is not God himself, but “he is the express image of God’s person. He said in John 14 that when we have seen him(through the works that the Father was doing through him), we have seen the Father.)

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the works Jesus did his apostles did as well are they now become the express image of God’s person ?

i don’t believe that this is the answer to John 14 ;but that the main thing Jesus came to do in God’s name was to reconcile all men to him through Jesus his only son ,the rest of Jesus work was to prove he was ,who he said he was the christ and the son of God

and it is because Jesus was the only son of God that he was the image of God his father .

 

 

[terraricca]

Marty

By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

(What do you want me to explain to you about these verses? You stated that because of Adam we could not escape the circle of death, but both Enoch and Elijah did.)

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I believe that both have die in the flesh ,but not  their soul

scriptures says ;For before he(Enoch) was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

a person does not need to be commended before he was taken if he does not going to die ;

the same goes for Elijah he was taken away in a violent way ,his flesh died not his soul

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit/soul returns to God who gave it.

Hos 13:10 Where is your king, that he may save you?
Where are your rulers in all your towns,
of whom you said,
‘Give me a king and princes’?
Hos 13:11 So in my anger I gave you a king,
and in my wrath I took him away.

 

 

[942767]

Hi Pierre:

I have given you my understanding of the scriptures. He is the “express image of God’s person”, and we who are born again Christians, are becoming like him as we learn to apply God’s Word in our daily life, and so, yes, the scriptures state that we will be like him when he comes for the church.

[terraricca]

hi Marty

“express image of God’s person”,
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this is related the qualities that Jesus expressed during his ministry right ?

and it is by follow him /walk as Jesus walked that we express those qualities ,right ?

the scriptures state that we will be like him when he comes for the church.
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being like him is not the same ,as expressing a image of God’s person ,

when Jesus said that some will become like him he meant being in heaven and see him has he really is in all his glory ,but those are a restricted number 144k

all those have been chosen and the others will be in Jesus kingdom on earth ,for the millennium and the call for those that died in him will only start at his return ;

54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
4
’He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

10
Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.
11
Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
12
“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
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Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
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“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
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The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
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I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
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And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20
He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
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The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

[942767]

being like him is not the same ,as expressing a image of God’s person ,

Really?  Please explain why not?

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Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

[terraricca]

Marty

(being like him is not the same ,as expressing a image of God’s person ,)

Really?  Please explain why not?

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Jesus the son of God is the Image of God  for he is the only begotten son of God ,all things were created through him ;this disqualifies all things to be /become  GOD’S IMAGE 

now scriptures says ;

Ro 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Ro 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Ro 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Ro 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Ro 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
Ro 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
Ro 8:34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

so it is not to be like the I mage of God ;but become conformed to the likeness of God’s son ;not the same thing , but how would they be like and conform to Jesus ?  ” he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” so it seem more that they become conformed according to Jesus work : He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?”

this is similar to what John said in;1Jn 2:5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

1Jn 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.

[terraricca]

Marty

1Jn 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

being like Jesus to see him as he is does not mean that we can be equal to who he is ,

sitting on the king’s table does not make you king

[942767]

Nobody said that we would be “equal to him”, but if we are being transformed into his image, then we also, should display the same character through the life that we live, and the scripture states that “he was the express image of God’s person”. He calls us his brothers, and he also has said that the he who overcomes will sit with him on his throne as he has overcome and sits on His Father’s throne.

Revelation 1:

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

[terraricca]

Marty

1Jn 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Rev 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.
So shall it be! Amen.

Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure.

They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

1Co 15:23 But each in his own turn:(1) Christ, (2)the firstfruits; then, (3)when he comes, those who belong to him.

Phil 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you

MT 8:11 “I say to you that many (not all)will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;

not all have a heavenly call

 

 

 

 

 

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