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The meaning of REV 17:9-11
This has puzzled christanity for hundreds of years, but NOW IT HAS BEEN REAVEALED, I believe. .
What are these verses saying? I think you will be amazed at how simple it is to understand once you get the right parts of this prophesy in place , everything falls into place and fits as easely as puzzle pieces do when placed in there proper positions to form the true picture.
We must remove the errors induced by false information, and false prophets that has clouded the truth of theses scriptures over many many years, and muddied the waters of this prophesy.
We are told in Rev 17:9….and here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the women sits. So what is that saying ?, It is saying that there are seven mountains (or risings ups) on which the women (babloyon) sits, scripture also tells us that the women mentioned there is the great whore, mystery Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abomination of the earth., so we can see it is talking about the seven rising up of the Bablyonian Empire systems , that will take place at different times on this earth. Properly identified these risings is crucial in the understanding of this prophesy. But there is another kingdom that shall arise also making a total of Eight world rulling powers. So let’s start to identify them, they are listed below let’s examine them, and find out where in the scriptures are they identified at.
Rev17:10….says, and there are seven kings or kingdoms, foundations of power& over this earth that will rise up (like mountains) and take place before the end. The key is for us to know the time of these kingdoms rise and fall, so let’s read what it says, five are fallen, and one “is”, and the other is not yet come; and when it, (the seventh ) comes, it must continue a short space, or short time, three and a half years to be exact.
Rev 17:11….and the beast that was, and is not, (at the point of this prophesy) this is speaking of Satan who was cast into the bottomless pit, (when the sixth kingdom began) even he is the eighth, and is of the seventh, and goes into predition. This is simply saying the seventh and eight are tied together, they are jointly envolved with each other, in their dominance of this earth. But again at the time of this prophesy, is being given, Satan is still bound in the bottomless pit.
So we need to establish who and when these eight world rulling powers take place, this is a key, a very important key to understand the prophesy but not the only key. So lets deal with this first key first. Lets try to identify these rising up SYSTEMS of kingdoms and Empires and nations, that take control the earth. In order to do that we must go to the book of DANIEL.
The book of Daniel
King Nebuchnasser of Bablyon had a dream of a great image of a man and Daniel tells him about the dream, Daniel 2:31…. Thou O King Nebuchnasser (the King of Babylon) sawest, and behold a great image . This great image whose brightness was excellent, stood before you, and the form thereof was terrible, This image’s head was of fine Gold, his breast and his arms of Silver, his belly and thighs of Brass, His legs of Iron, his feet part of Iron and part of Clay.
Daniel 2:34….Thou sawest till a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.
It is very important to identify these rising and falling of the pergressive kingdoms that rise to power one after that the other. So let identify them in order.
THE FIVE KINGDOMS OF BABYLON , of the image of Daniel interputations.
1….The head of Gold ……………………..the Persian Empire……..the ruler was Nebuchnasser
2….The arms and chest of Silver…the Medo-Persian Empire…the ruler, Darius & Cyrus.
3…..The Belly of Brass……………………..the Greek Empire……………the ruler, Alexander the Great.
4….. The thighs and legs of Iron………..the Roman Empire………….the ruler, Julius Caesar and his secessors.
5…..The feet of Iron & Clay………………. The present world rulling kingdoms like , the United Sates, Russia, England, North Korea India, Pakastan, Europe, Canada, France, Australia , Iran, Japan. These rulering nations are the present ruling powers, they have the power of Iron, (some with nuclear capabilites ), but they are not a single ruling kingdom, ruling over all the world as the ones before them were. They do not agree with each other, on how to rule and govern, they are each as strong as iron some as i have said even having nuclear capabilites, but as clay prevents pieces of iron from adhearing to one another so are these present world rulling powers. They are nations made up of different peoples mingled together with different seeds of men or nationalites, just as we are today, nearly all the world ruling powers are nations mingled with different races of people now days. Everything fits this time period exactly, it’s what Daniel said, so understanding that then we are now most definitely in the Fifth and perhaps at the end of these world ruling nations.and kingdoms made up of Iron and Clay.
We are Now in this Fifth stage of the consecutive Bablyonian (type) ruling nations of the IMAGE DANIEL WAS TALKING ABOUT, we are most definitely in the Fifth ruling time, the Nations of iron and clay, strong nations strong as Iron, diverse in idology’s, acting not as one solid world ruling kingdom or Empire, but many diverse powerfull nations with mixed populations which dominate this present world, of the Bablyon system of rule. We are most deffinately in the final stage of the Bablyonian types (buy and sell for gain) of nations , and it is the one of Iron and Clay. Nothing could be more clearer, taken from the prophesy given to Nebuchnasser and interpreted to him by DANIEL the Prophet.
The Sixth ruling kingdom, the next kingdom to rise.
The next kingdom to arise will be the sixth kingdom, that will overtake the five previous Bablyon type of kingdoms of this world, and it will be, different from all the ones before it, and the rest to come later, It will be the kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saints, which will last forever, it is the Sixth world rulling Kingdom to rise and take over this earth. This is the very next kingdom to take over the whole earth. it will break to pieces all the previous Bablyonian types of kingdom, that had risen up on this earth before it. And it will take over the whole earth and at the end of the thousand year rule of the Sixth world ruling kingdom of Jesus and the Saint’s will come, two more world ruling kingdoms , the SEVENTH world rulling kingdom which will be a revision of a Bablyonian type of Empire, and afterwards Satan is released from the bottomless pit, where he was placed at the beginning of the Sixth kingdom of Jesus and the Saints, he shall be released, and rise out of the pit and joins in with the Seventh as the Eighth beast power. These two shall make war with the Sixth kingdom of Jesus and the Saints, and they shall take control of this earth for a short time period, and after three and one half years. They shall surround Jesus and the Saint’s at Jerusalem and GOD will rain down fire from heaven and destory them, and Satan will be taken and thrown into the lake of fire and goes into predition, Rev 17:11. Then God the Father will take over, and he shall give the world ruling kingdom to the Saint’s and they shall poses it forever.
The key to understand Rev 17:10
Rev 17:10……And there are seven seven kings: five are fallen, and one is and the other is not yet come ; and when he comes, he must continue a short space. The key is in identifying the one that is, this has thrown so many over the years off, why?, because they interpret it (the one that is), as meaning at the time John was writing this, prophesy. He was living at the time of the Fouth kingdom , of ‘IRON the Rome empire. So nearly all that I know of, that try to intrupet this prophesy, try to place “the one that now, ‘is”, In their interputations, as the time of the Roman Empire, and that is what misleads them and throws all their interputations off. Thats the “key” needed to understand Rev 17:10
They fail to realize that John was transported to the day of the lord, he was not speaking from the standpoint of time when he was given that prophecy to write down. But from the standpoint of the time of the prophesy itself was taking place. Which puts him in the day of the Lord, in the Sixth , kingdom that was rulling the earth. The Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saints. There you have it, let him who has eyes to see, see, and he that has ears to hear, hear.
Peace and love to you all and yours……….gene
To all……please read this and I hope it will give you enlightenment and a better understanding of scripture.
Peace and love to you all and yours. ……….gene
T8 and Jodi…… please read this, and give me your commit, have you ever heard of anyone who has, “time dated”, this prophesy like this before? I would like to know, Your site is the first in the world, I believe that has ever had this presented to them.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Mike…. I advanced this for you to read and give me back your imput.
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
To all ….. Again I ask why does everyone avoid this topic?, It explains the exact time period, the prophesy is talking about.
Peace and love to you all. ………gene
20 REASONS TO APPLY
THE YEAR/DAY PRINCIPLE
Introductory Matters
As we begin our study we need to underline two very important facts. First of all, the Bible
month consists of thirty days (compare Genesis 7:11 with 8:3-4 and Deuteronomy 21:13 with
Deuteronomy 34:8; see also, Esther 4:11 and Daniel 6:7, 12) Secondly, the Bible year consists of
12 months. (See I Kings 4:7 and I Chronicles 27:1-15). The year/day principle basically means
that when time periods are used in the context of prophetic events which occur between AD 34
and the Second Coming, they are to be understood by applying the principle that one literal
calendar day is equivalent to one literal calendar year.
The preterist and futurist schools of prophetic interpretation adamantly deny the year/day
principle. Most preterists interpret the little horn of Daniel 7 as well as the little horn of Daniel
8 as Antiochus Epiphanes (171-164 BC.), a Macedonian ruler who desecrated the Jewish temple
from 167-164 BC Preterists believe that the three and one half years and the 2300 days are
literal time and apply to this period.
On the other hand, most futurists teach that the little horn of Daniel 7 represents a future
Antichrist who will sit in a rebuilt Jewish Temple for three and one half literal years at the very
end of the Christian dispensation. They also believe that the little horn of Daniel 8 represents
Antiochus Epiphanes and that the 2300 days are literal time.
The common denominator of both systems is that they believe that the three and one half
years and the 2300 days are to be taken as literal time. In contrast, historicism has always held
that days, weeks, months and years in a prophetic context should be understood symbolically
by applying the year/day principle.
Reasons for Applying the Year/Day Principle
Reason #1:
The expressions ‘time, times and the dividing of time’, ‘42 months’, ‘1260 days’, and ‘70 weeks’,
are very peculiar. They could have been expressed in literal language but instead they are given
a symbolic flavor. Notice, for example, that Luke 4:25 and James 5:17 refer to the period when
there was no rain in the days of Elijah as ‘three years and six months’. This is the normal way of
expressing time (see also, Acts 18:11; II Samuel 2:11; I Samuel 27:7).
It is significant that every measurement of time in prophecy is given a symbolic flavor: hour
(Revelation 17:12; 9:13), day (Revelation 12:6), week (Daniel 9:24-27), month (Revelation 13:5),
year (Daniel 7:25). It is also significant that non-apocalyptic prophecies express time in literallanguage: 70 years (Jeremiah 25:11-12), 400 years (Genesis 15:13-15), 120 years (Genesis 6:3)
with literal persons performing literal actions!
Reason #2:
The symbolic time periods are always found within the context of apocalyptic passages where
symbols predominate. For example, the three and one half times are found in the context of
four symbolic beasts, a symbolic sea, symbolic winds, symbolic clouds, symbolic horns, and a
symbolic little horn.
Similarly, the 1260 days are found in a context where a symbolic woman, clothed with a
symbolic sun, stands on a symbolic moon, with 12 symbolic stars on her head. She is persecuted
by a symbolic dragon who has seven symbolic heads, ten symbolic horns and who casts a third
of the symbolic stars to the earth.
In Revelation 13, the 42 months are found within a context where a symbolic composite beast,
with ten symbolic horns, receives its power from a symbolic dragon. It also arises from a
symbolic sea and later uses a symbolic image beast to impose a symbolic mark!
The same could be said about Daniel 8. There we have a symbolic ram, a symbolic he-goat, and
a symbolic little horn. It only stands to reason that if the scenes where these time periods are
found in are symbolic, then the time periods must also be symbolic!!
Reason #3:
The little horn of Daniel 7 arose among the ten horns on the head of the fourth beast (Rome). It
is clear from history that the Roman Empire was fragmented when the barbarians came from
the northern sector of the empire and carved it up. Daniel 7 makes it clear that there are no
gaps in the historical flow of nations. The lion is succeeded immediately by the bear, the bear is
immediately succeeded by the leopard, the leopard is immediately succeeded by the dragon
beast, the dragon beast then sprouts the ten horns and the little horn then arises among the
ten.
Now, if the little horn arose among the ten and the ten were complete in 476 A. D., and the
little horn ruled until the judgment (in 1844), then the three and one half times of dominion of
the little horn must be 1260 years, and not literal days. If the days were literal, then the little
horn would have ruled only from 476-479 A. D. But the fact is that the Roman Catholic Church
ruled for 1260 years!!
Reason #4:
Daniel 8 makes it crystal clear that the 2300 day prophecy was for the time of the end (Dan.
8:14, 17, 26-27). Daniel 12:4, 7 underscores the fact that the book which contains the 2300 day
prophecy would be closed and sealed until the time of the end and therefore could not be
understood until then.
This being the case, those who believe that Antiochus is the little horn of Daniel 8 find
themselves in a serious dilemma. Assuming that Antiochus is represented by the little horn of
Daniel 8 and that the 2300 days were the literal period of his dominion, a question immediately comes to the fore: Why would we have to wait until the time of the end to understand this? It
would simply be a matter of history! If Antiochus was the fulfillment, it should have been
understood at that very time.
It is a matter of record that Josephus, Porphiry and others in the first centuries of the Christian
era believed that Antiochus was the little horn of Daniel 8. If they were right then they were
living in the time of the end. Yet we know that they were not living in the time of the end
because over 2000 years of history have transpired since their time.
The simple reality is that Antiochus did not fulfill the little horn prophecy. Josephus and others
mistakenly identified Antiochus as the fulfillment. They could not have comprehended the little
horn prophecy because they did not live in the time of end! It is clear that this prophecy was
not present truth in the days of Daniel or Josephus, or even of Martin Luther. None of these
men lived in the time of the end and therefore, none of them could have understood this
prophecy! It became present truth when the prophecy was fulfilled in 1844. This is why the
Millerites preached on this very text. The book of Daniel was being opened and now the time
period of the 2300 days could be understood.
Reason #5:
The vision of Daniel 8:1-2 covers the whole period of the ram, the he-goat and the little horn
until the cleansing of the sanctuary. In Daniel 8:13 the question is asked: ‘Until when shall the
vision be? The context indicates that the word vision includes the totality of what Daniel has
seen in Daniel 8 to that point. Then, in Daniel 8:15 we are told that Daniel wished to
comprehend the vision. The question is: Which vision? The answer is simple: It must be the
totality of the vision of Daniel 8 because when the Angel Gabriel comes to explain the vision in
answer to Daniel’s request, he begins with Persia and then continues with Greece, the little
horn, and culminates with the conclusion of the 2300 days when the sanctuary is to be
cleansed.
Thus it is clear that the 2300 days which cover the whole vision of Daniel 8 must involve
CENTURIES and not literal days, (that is, six and one half literal years). Incidentally, this explains
the reason why Daniel 8 begins with Persia and not with Babylon. The 2300 days begin when
Persia gives the decree to restore and build Jerusalem and that is why the vision begins with
Persia. Thus, Daniel 8 and 9 must be connected in order to comprehend the 2300 day prophecy.
Notice the following illustration:
Vision = Ram + He-goat + Pagan Rome + Papal Rome + Judgment
________________________________________________________________________
How Long? 2300 Days/YearsReason #6:
What do conservative evangelical Christians do with the prophecy of the 70 weeks? Don’t they
have to employ the year/day principle to convert the weeks to years? The answer is that they
attempt to get off the hook by saying that the expression ‘70 weeks’ really means ‘seventy
sevens’ or even ‘70 weeks of years’. In this way they get rid of the year/day principle. This they
must do because if they employed the year/day principle for the seventy weeks, they would
also have to employ it for the other prophetic time periods in order to be consistent!! Let us
look at a few facts about the word translated ‘week’ here in Daniel 9.
Is it true that the Hebrew word shabuwa should be translated ‘sevens’ or ‘weeks of years’? This
word is used a total of 19 times in the Hebrew Scriptures and in every single instance it refers to
a literal week of seven literal days (Genesis 29:27; 29:28; Exodus 34:22; Leviticus 12:5; Numbers
28:26; Deuteronomy 16:9 (used twice); 16:10; 16:16; II Chronicles 8:13; Jeremiah 5:24; Daniel
9:24; 9:25(used twice); 9:26; 9:27 (used twice); Daniel 10:2; Daniel 10:3).
Evangelicals frequently use Daniel 10:2-3 as an argument for translating the word shabuwa as
‘weeks of years’. They point out that in these verses the word ‘weeks’ is qualified by the word
‘days’, in other words, ‘weeks of days’. They then imply that if these are weeks (with the
qualifier ‘days’), then the other weeks (without the qualifier ‘days’) must mean ‘weeks of years’.
For example, the New International Version translates the word week with ‘seven’ or ‘sevens’
in Daniel 9:24-27 but then translates the very same word as ‘weeks’ in Daniel 10:2,3. The only
problem with such an explanation is that it ignores the meaning of the Hebrew idiom ‘weeks of
days’. When the word ‘week’ in Hebrew is qualified by the word ‘days’, it simply means ‘full
weeks’. Notice the following examples: In Genesis 29:14; Numbers 11:20-21; Judges 19:2 the
Hebrew literally reads, “month of days”. Is there a month that does not consist of days?
Furthermore, in Genesis 41:1; Leviticus 25:29; II Samuel 13:23; 14:28 the Hebrew literally reads
‘years of days’ but the translators have recognized that this means ‘full years’.
The fundamental reason why futurist and preterist scholars refuse to translate shabuwa in
Daniel 9 as ‘weeks’ is because they would then have to admit, in order to be consistent, that
the year/day principle must be applied to other prophetic time periods as well. Furthermore, if
they applied the year/day principle to the 70 weeks, they would have to apply it to the 2300
days (of which the 70 weeks constitute the first part) and this would force them to admit that
prophecy was fulfilled in 1844!! This would then make them Seventh-day Adventists!! Have
mercy!!
Incidentally, the Septuagint translates the Hebrew shabuwa with the Greek word hebdomas.
This word is consistently translated ‘week’.
Reason #7:
A comparison of Daniel 8:11-13, 23-25 with Daniel 11:31-45 also reveals why Antiochus cannot
be represented by the little horn. As we compare these two passages it becomes crystal clear
that the King of the North of Daniel 11 represents the same power as the little horn of both
Daniel 7 and 8.Particularly in Daniel 11 (but also in Daniel 7 and 8) it is clear that the king of the north is the
last power to rule the earth before Christ sets up His everlasting kingdom. This is also true of
the little horn of Daniel 8. He is broken “without hand”, an expression used in Daniel 2:34; 8:25;
11:45. The little horn/king of the north is destroyed by Christ at his coming. Obviously, this
makes it impossible for Antiochus Epiphanes to be the little horn.
Daniel 11:31-45 also contains many elements which are common with the little horn of Daniel
7. These considerations leave no doubt that the little horn of Daniel 7, the little horn of Daniel 8
and the king of the north of Daniel 11 symbolize the same power. Thus, those who see the little
horn of Daniel 7 as a future Antichrist and the one in Daniel 8 as Antiochus Epiphanes are at a
loss to explain why Daniel 11 blends the description of the little horn of Daniel 7 with that of
the little horn of Daniel 8. Why would Daniel 11 blend the two descriptions if they represented
two different powers, one past and the other future?
Reason #8:
In the book of Daniel, the word ‘days’ can mean ‘years’. Daniel 1:5 refers to three years but in
Daniel 1:18 the same period is described as ‘days’. The seven times of Daniel 4:25 are referred
to as ‘days’ in Daniel 4:34. Daniel 5:11 speaks of the days of Nebuchadnezzar. These days were
obviously years. Compare, Daniel 2:28, 44 where ‘latter days’ and ‘days of these kings’ means
‘years’. See also, Daniel 8:14, 26; 10:14; 12:13; 11:20; 11:33 in the light of Daniel 7:25; 12:7.
Reason #9:
In the historical books of the Old Testament, days and years are used in a parallel fashion.
Notice the following illustrations:
Exodus 13:10 reads literally in Hebrew that the Passover was to be celebrated ‘from
days to days’. Obviously this means from year to year.
I Samuel 20:6: The Hebrew literally reads ‘sacrifice of the days’ but the context clearly
shows it refers to the yearly sacrifice.
I Samuel 2:19 literally reads, ‘from days to days’
I Samuel 1:21 literally reads, ‘sacrifice of the days’
Judges 11:40 literally reads, ‘from days to days, four days each year’
I Samuel 27:7 literally reads, “days and four months”
I Kings 1:1 says that David was stricken ‘in days’ but it means ‘years’.
Genesis 47:9 is an interesting verse in that Jacob speaks of ‘the days of my years’
Genesis 5:5 states that the days that Adam lived were 930 years.
Genesis 6:3 is the first time prophecy in the Bible where days are linked with years.
Reason #10:
In Old Testament poetry, days and years are employed in synonymous parallelism. Please
notice the following examples: Job 10:5; 15:20; 32:7; Deuteronomy 32:7; Psalm 77:5.A very interesting text is Psalm 90:9-10 where the translation, “years of our lives” literally reads
in Hebrew, ‘the days of our years’. In every place where the Old Testament couples days with
years, the word ‘day’ is in the ‘A’ line and the word ‘year’ is in the ‘B’ line. Regarding this, the
Old Testament scholar, William Shea comments:
“When we come to the occurrence of the word ‘days’ in the time prophecies, therefore, an
ancient Semite whose mind was steeped in this parallelistic type of thought would naturally
have made an association of ‘years’ with the ‘days’ found in a symbolic context, just as he
naturally would have identified ‘years’ as the B-word that would follow the A-word ‘days’ in
its occurrence as part of a well-known parallel pair.” (William H. Shea, Selected Studies in
Prophetic Interpretation, p. 69)
Reason #11:
In the prophetic books of the Old Testament days are also used interchangeably with years. For
instance, Ezekiel 30:3 refers to the ‘day of the Lord’ but Isaiah calls it ‘the year of the Lord’
(Isaiah 61:2). Isaiah 10:3 speaks of the “day of visitation” but Jeremiah 11:23 refers to the same
event as ”the year of visitation”. Isaiah 34:8 speaks of the ‘year of recompense’ but Hosea 9:7
refers to the ‘days of recompense’.
Of course, we would not want to leave out the traditional texts which have been used by
Seventh-day Adventists to corroborate the year/day principle. In both Numbers 14:34 and
Ezekiel 4:6, God Himself employs the year/day principle in the context of prophecy!!!
Reason #12:
We can also approach this subject from the perspective of the Sabbatical and Jubilee years. It is
obvious that the weekly Sabbath is the foundation for both of these! That is to say, the
seventh day of the week becomes symbolic of the seventh year and the forty-ninth day comes
to symbolize the forty-ninth year. Leviticus 25:1-7 addresses the Sabbatical year. This passage
contains the earliest Biblical use of the year/day principle. It becomes clear when we compare
verses 3 and 4 with verse 5 that the weekly cycle is being used as a pattern for the seven year
period. We have ‘six years’ which are followed by the ‘seventh year’ and the seventh year is
one of rest. This arrangement is patterned after ‘six days’ of labor followed by the ‘seventh day’
which is a day of rest. Here we clearly have an example of the year/day principle. The same is
true of the Jubilee year (see Leviticus 25:8 and compare with Leviticus 23:15).
Reason #13:
If we accept the testimony of Jesus, the little horn of Daniel 8 cannot represent Antiochus
Epiphanes. Jesus made it clear that the “abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet
Daniel” was still in the future in His day!! How could Antiochus, who lived in the second century
before Christ, fulfill a prophecy which Jesus clearly indicated was still unfulfilled in His day? (See
Matthew 24:15; Luke 21:20).
Furthermore, the little horn of Daniel 7 could not have been fulfilled by Antiochus either,
because the apostle Paul specifies that this horn was still future in his day (II Thessalonians 2:1-13)The book of Revelation also places the fulfillment of this prophecy in the future (see
Revelation 12:6, 14; 13:5; 11:1-2).
Reason #14:
As a rule of thumb the shorter the time period in apocalyptic prophecy, the more likely it is to
be symbolic of a longer time period. For example: Is it really possible to fit into one literal week
all of the events spoken of in the last of the 70 weeks? (See Daniel 9:26, 27). Would ten literal
days of persecution during the period of Smyrna really be such a terrible ordeal? (See
Revelation 2:10). Would three and one half literal days be enough to fulfill all of the events of
Revelation 11? (See Revelation 11:9). If the two witnesses, the two Olive Trees, the two
Lampstands, the sackcloth, etc., are all symbolic, then, why not the time period?
Reason #15:
Preterists and futurists who apply these prophetic time periods literally encounter serious
problems in another sense as well. In the Old Testament God is presented as the One who
reveals the course of human history and provides His divine evaluation of it. There we find a
revelation of the continuous and unbroken flow of human history from creation until the first
coming of the Messiah. The Gospels then present the story of Jesus’ ministry on earth. The
book of Acts and the Epistles continue the flow by describing the history of the early church.
After this is where the preterists encounter serious problems. You see, in the preterist view,
there is no revelation from God concerning the entire history of the Christian church. There are
almost two thousand years of silence. According to them, God’s description and evaluation of
history ended with the Roman Emperors in the Early Church.
The futurists are not in better shape. According to this school, Revelation 4-18 refers to a short
period of human history at the very end of time. Likewise, God’s description and evaluation of
human history as found in Daniel (according to this school) ends with the Roman Empire and
does not pick up again until the last seven years of human history. Thus, there is a 2000 year
gap in God’s description and evaluation of human history (with the brief exception of the seven
churches). God has been silent about the events of the church for 2000 years!!!
Only the historicist method is able to reveal a God who is concerned with His church during the
entire period of church history, including the period of dominion of the little horn. Only
historicism is able to show the providential guidance of God in human history and His loving
care for His church during the last 2000 years!!
Reason #16:
The Apostle Paul makes it absolutely clear that the Man of Sin was already working in his day
and yet this man of sin will not be destroyed until Jesus comes. How could this be a literal
person, if he was alive in Paul’s day and yet is not destroyed until Jesus comes? Is this one
literal man who has lived over 2000 years? The inevitable conclusion is that the Man of Sin
cannot be a literal man nor can his period of dominion be literal time. (See II Thessalonians 2:1-13).It is also significant that Paul is getting his picture of the Man of Sin from the little horn of
Daniel 7, the little horn of Daniel 8 and the King of the North in Daniel 11. This being the case,
the little horn and the King of the North must have ruled for centuries, not for a few literal days.
Reason #17:
The acid test of the year/day principle is whether the events forecasted were fulfilled on
schedule. In other words, the pragmatic test of historical fulfillment must be applied to the
historicist interpretation of these prophecies. Does the historicist method pass the test? Notice
the following incontrovertible facts:
The Papacy did indeed rule for 1260 years and the true church had to flee during that period.
The dates can be corroborated by history (538-1798 A. D.).
The Church during the period of Smyrna did experience ten years of severe persecution
under Diocletian (303-313 A. D.). In fact, it was this period of persecution which led to
Constantine’s famous Edict of Milan in 313 A. D.
A decree to build and restore Jerusalem was given in the year 457 B. C. Jesus was
anointed in the year 27 A. D. Jesus did die in the spring of the year AD 31 Stephen was
stoned in the fall of the year 34 A. D.
The Millerites did indeed preach from Daniel 8:14 that the Sanctuary was about to be
cleansed, and this preaching took place right before the 2300 years came to an end.
Why didn’t they preach from some other text? Simply because God wanted to bring to
the world’s attention that the 2300 years were about to end and a significant event was
about to take place in heaven! The great Second Advent Awakening in the 1830’s
provides powerful evidence that the year/day principle must be applied to Daniel 8:14.
Churches were closed and Bibles were forbidden in France during the French Revolution
for about three and one half years (March of 1793 A. D. to November of 1797 A. D.).
Thus, historical fulfillment vindicates the historicist method of interpreting the prophetic time
periods.
Reason #18:
Many great scholars, both Seventh-day Adventist and non-Seventh-day Adventist have
understood and taught the year/day principle. Unfortunately, after the Great Disappointment
of 1844, Protestants gave up on the year/day principle which had been used by the Millerites to
calculate the prophetic time periods. In other words, because Jesus did not come as predicted
in 1844, the Protestant world threw out the method which the Millerites had used. Thus they
threw out the proverbial baby with the bath water!! We will limit ourselves to comments which
were made by two men whose last name is Newton:
“Three times and a half; that is, for 1260 solar years, reckoning as time for a calendar year of
360 days, and a day for a solar year. After which the judgment is to sit, and they shall take
away his dominion, not at once, but by degrees, to consume and to destroy it unto the end”(Sir Isaac Newton, Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St.
John, part 1, chap. 8, p. 114. London: J. Darby and T. Browne, 1733).
“We must therefore compute the time according to the nature and genius of the prophetic
language. A time, and times, and half a time are three years and a half; and the ancient Jewish
year consisting of twelve months, and each month of thirty days, ‘a time and times and half a
time,’ or three years and a half, are reckoned in the Revelation 11:2,3; 12:6, 14, as equivalent to
‘forty and two months,’ or ‘a thousand two hundred and threescore days:’ and a day in the
style of the prophets is a year: ‘I have appointed thee each day for a year,’ saith God to Ezekiel
4:6; and it is confessed that ‘the seventy weeks’ in the ninth chapter of Daniel are weeks of
years; and consequently 1260 days are 1260 years.” (Bishop Thomas Newton, Dissertations on
the prophecies, London: B. Blake, 1840, p. 247)
Incidentally, neither of these two authors were Seventh-day Adventists. The question might be
asked, why didn’t the early church comprehend the year/day principle? It is true that the early
church generally interpreted these time periods literally. But it must be remembered that the
fulfillment of Bible prophecy is fully comprehended only by those who are living shortly before
or during the time of fulfillment. This principle is clearly brought out in John 14:29. Even the
disciples on the road to Emmaus did not comprehend the prophecies about the Messiah until
Jesus explained them.
Reason #19:
Practically every futurist writer is willing to concede that the seven churches represent seven
epochs in the history of the Christian church. Most see Ephesus as a symbol of the Apostolic
Church. Let’s take a look at the fourth church in the series, Thyatira. It is obvious to any
objective reader, that this church bears many similarities to the condition of Israel during the
period of Elijah. Notice the following parallels:
In both cases Jezebel instigates the apostasy. In both cases the cardinal sins are fornication and
idolatry. In both cases there is no rain. In both cases Elijah flees. In both cases Elijah is
sustained in his flight to the wilderness. In both cases the period of apostasy lasts three and a
half years. These parallels indicate that the church during the period of Thyatira is reliving the
story of Elijah. Yet the historical period of the church of Thyatira does not last only three and a
half literal years, not even by the calculations of conservative non-Adventist scholars!! If, in
Revelation 2, Jezebel is not one literal person, Elijah is not one historical person, rain is not
literal rain, fornication is not literal fornication, etc., then the three and a half years are not
literal years either!! Time and space will not allow us to show that the harlot of Revelation 17
represents the second, future, stage of this Jezebel period of the church!
Reason #20:
A study of the literary structure of Revelation 20 and Isaiah 24 reveals that ‘days’ in Isaiah
24:21-23 is parallel to ‘years’ in Revelation 20:2. This is clear evidence for the year/day
principle. Read the following verses and then study the chart at the end of this document:“It shall come to pass in that day that the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones, and
on the earth the kings of the earth. 22 They will be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered
in the pit, and will be shut up in the prison; after many days they will be punished. 23 Then the
moon will be disgraced and the sun ashamed; for the Lord of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and
in Jerusalem and before His elders, gloriously.”
“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a
great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and
Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut
him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand
years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.”
In conclusion, I would like to include a quotation from T. R. Birks on the year/day principle:
“1. That the church, after the ascension of Christ, was intended of God to be kept in the lively
expectation of His speedy return in glory. 2. That, in the divine counsels, a long period of nearly
two thousand years was to intervene between the first and the Second Advent, and to be
marked by a dispensation of grace to the Gentiles. 3. That, in order to strengthen the faith and
hope of the church under the long delay, a large part of the whole interval was prophetically
announced, but in such a manner that its true length might not be understood, till its own close
seemed to be drawing near. 4. That, in the symbolical prophecies of Daniel and St. John, other
times were revealed along with this, and included under one common maxim of interpretation.
5. That the periods thus figuratively revealed are exclusively those in Daniel and St. John, which
relate to the general history of the church between the time of the prophet and the second
advent. 6. That, in these predictions, each day represents a natural year, as in the vision of
Ezekiel; that a month denotes thirty, and a time three hundred and sixty years.” (T. R. Birks,
First Elements Sacred Prophecy. London: William Edward Painter, 1843. P. 311)
For further study read:
Prophetic Principles Edited by Ron Du Preez (Published by the Michigan Conference of SDA)
Selected Studies in Prophetic Interpretation by William Shea (Available from the Biblical
Research Institute of the General Conference of SDA)
Miniature Symbolization
Explanation of the Year/Day Principle
T. R. Birks
“. . . a type is a real, and a symbol an unreal or ideal representative of a real object. In the type,
the spies, who were real persons, represented the whole nature; and the forty days of their
search, a real period, represented the real time of the stay in the wilderness. In the visions of
Daniel or St. John the ten-horned beast or the sun-clothed woman, unreal figures, represent an
empire, or the Church of Christ; and the twelve hundred and sixty days, or forty two months, an
unreal period grammatically suggested, represent the true period designed, of as many years.
The analogy, therefore, contained in this Scripture history is precise and complete. It supplies us,from the lips of the All-wise God himself, with a distinct scale, by which to interpret every
prophetic period which bears the internal marks of a suggestive character, as a miniature
representation of some larger period.” T. R. Birks, First Elements of Sacred Prophecy: Including
an Examination of Several Recent Expositions, and of the Year-Day Theory, p. 339. Emphasis
supplied
Numbers 14:34
12 men (smaller) 12 tribes (larger)
14:10-12 The whole congregation rebelled against God
14:33, 34: The sentence upon Israel
“And your sons shall be shepherds in the wilderness forty years, and bear the brunt of your
infidelity, until your carcasses are consumed in the wilderness. 34 According to the number of the
days in which you spied out the land, forty days, for each day you shall bear your guilt one year,
namely forty years, and you shall know My rejection.”
Spies and days are the microcosm
Tribes and years are the macrocosm
Numbers 13-14 is typology in miniature
The expression “for every day a year” appears in a historical setting
Ezekiel 4:6
Ezekiel 4 is a symbolic representation in miniature
4:1-3: The brick represents Jerusalem and the siege represents the siege of the city by the
Babylonians. This is a miniature symbol.
4:4-8: The prophet himself becomes a symbol for Israel and Judah
The prophet is the microcosm and Israel and Judah are the macrocosm
The man represents the nation in miniature, the 390 days represent the period of 390 years in
miniature and the 40 days on his side represents 40 years for Israel.
Prophecies from Daniel
Daniel 7:25: Smaller symbols are representative of larger empires so the time periods
must also be larger
Daniel 8: Smaller symbols represent larger nations so the time period must also be larger
Daniel 9: Because it is connected with the 2300 days of Daniel 8 the smaller time periods
represent greater time periods Daniel 12: Reference to the daily and the abomination of desolation connects with Daniel
11 and also with Daniel 8. This shows that these periods are to be understood in the light
of the past and not in the light of the future
Daniel 7:1-14: Vision Daniel 7:25: Time period
Daniel 8:1-12: Vision Daniel 8:14: Time period
Daniel 11: Explanation of vision Daniel 12: Time period
Prophecies from Revelation
Revelation 2:10: ten days
Revelation 9:5, 10: Time periods in a symbolic context
Revelation 9:15: Symbolic context
Revelation 11:2, 3: Symbolic context
Revelation 12:6, 14: Symbolic context
Revelation 13:5 Symbolic context
Merely Historical Time Prophecies
Daniel 4: One person, seven times both fulfilled with that literal person (4:25ff)
Jeremiah 29:10; 25:11, 12: Fulfilled literally (Ezra 1:1-4)
Daniel 10:2, 3: No symbols involved
Genesis 6:3: No symbols involved. Fulfilled literally with Noah and the ark
Genesis 15:13-15: fulfilled exactly 400 years later in Exodus 12:40
Genesis 41:25-36: Was literally fulfilled. There is no indication of any symbolism in the
passage.
What About the Thousand Years of Revelation 20:
The year/day principle was already applied to this time period in Isaiah 24:21-23
where the ‘many days’ are interpreted in Revelation as one thousand years. Thus
there is no need to apply the year/day principle to this time period in the book of
Revelation.20 Reasons To Apply The Year/Day Principle | by Pastor Stephen Bohr
SecretsUnsealed.org | SUMTV.orgGene
You write:
Rev17:10….says, and there are seven kings or kingdoms, foundations of power& over this earth that will rise up (like mountains) and take place before the end. The key is for us to know the time of these kingdoms rise and fall, so let’s read what it says, five are fallen, and one “is”, and the other is not yet come; and when it, (the seventh ) comes, it must continue a short space, or short time, three and a half years to be exact.
The first thing you already need to know is that in time prophecy
ONE DAY = A REAL YEARONE TIME = ONE YEAR = 360 DAYS=360 REALS YEARS
ONE HEBREW MONTH = 30 DAYS
ONE HEBREW YEAR = 360 DAYSOne Evening and One Morning = A Literal Day
EXAMPLES
You will see how everything is clear.
Daniel 7
ABOUT LITTLE HORN
WHO IS THE BEAST AND ANTICHRIST
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and ANOTHER shall rise after them; and he shall be DIVERSE from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME
A TIME = 360 YEARS
TIMES= 360 X 2 = 720 YEARS
THE DIVIDING OF TIME= 360 YEARS DIVIDED BY 2 = 180 YEARS
TOTAL
360+ 720+180 = 1260 YEARS
ANOTHER
IN DANIEL 8
13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.Easy here
One day= One year
So
two thousand and three hundred days = 2300 years
ANOTHER
Special Time set aside for God’s people upon the return of the Babylonian exiles.
DANIEL 9
24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Seventy weeks
A week = 7 days= 7 literal years
70 WEEKS = 70 X 7 = 490 literals years
DANIEL 12
] And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
[7] And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.for a time, times, and an half
Is the same as
Three and half years
1+ 2+ 1/2 =3,5 YEARS
1 YEAR =A TIME = 360 Days/years
360 + 720 + 180 1260 Years
REVELATION 11
and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Holy city is the holy God’s people
who had been persecuted 42 months
42 MONTHS
1 MONTH = 30 DAYS =30 YEARS
42 MONTHS X 30 = 1260 YEARS
REVELATION 12
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
a time, and times, and half a time
1 2 6 0 YEARS
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
1 2 6 0 YEARS
REVELATION 13
] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
42 MONTHS = 1 2 6 0 YEARS
REVELATION 9
RISE AND FALL OF OTHMAN EMPIRE
And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
FIVE MONTHS
30 X 5 = 150 YEARS
And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
A year = 360 days = 360 YEARS
A MONTH = 30 DAYS = 30 YEARS
A DAY = A YEAR
A HOUR = 1/12 DAY = 360/12 =
Berean……you have not explained Rev 17, in fact hardly anything you have written deals with those scriptures, and further more you have not dealt with Daniel 2:31-45. If you can’t tie those two together, then you can’t predict where we are in the right time line. Nor what is to come.
Also there is not “Antichrist ” being, that term came be applied to any person who does not believe that Jesus was a flesh human being who need to be “ANOINTED” exactly as all human kind has to be. The word Anitchrist means those against the anointing, they are against the anointing of Jesus . THE GNOSTIC’S WERE THE FIRST ANTICHRIST , they existed at the time of the apostles John and Paul, they were the reason John coined the term “ANTI-CHRISTO’S “.
Please go and reread what I wrote on Rev 17 and Daniel 2 :31-45, without understanding that, you cannot get a true time line of events to take place in this world. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene
As you saw, I’m trying to get your attention to
the principle of prophetic interpretation: a day is worth a yearBut you don’t seem to be paying much attention. . .
It’s extremely IMPORTANT that
you take a closer look at this thing
or you’re going to hit the wall…Gene
As you saw, I’m trying to get your attention to
the principle of prophetic interpretation: a day is worth a yearHi Berean,
I can show you the day/year prophecy concerning the ‘abomination of desolation’ and how it relates to islam
(if you want)
____________
God bless
ED JBut you don’t seem to be paying much attention. . .
Lol. He can’t help it apparently. He believes he has no free will. God made him this way must be his conclusion.
Seriously. I wouldn’t try too hard to make him see anything as he will let you down every time. You can lead a horse to water…
It is what it is.
Did the Ottoman Empire rule for 1260 years straight?
Well, it hasn’t.
The papal supremacy, on the other hand, has lasted exactly 1260 years.
From 538 to 1798.
And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and he was empowered to continue to act for forty-two months (Rev.13.5).
42 months = 1260 yearsIf you want to see Islam in the bible prophecy it is in Revelation 9.
The Ottoman Empire was dismantled after WWI. It became an empire when it conquered the Roman Empire in the eastern leg, but existed as a rising power before then. So it’s reign was about 1453 – 1924.
According to this view, the following are part of the beast.
Egypt – 3100 to ?
Assyria – 2500 BC to 605 BC
Babylon – 612 – 539 BC
Medo-Persia – 539 – 331 BC
Greecia – 331 – 168 BC
Rome – 168-476 AD / 1453 AD – inc Byzantine period
Ottoman – 1453 – 1924The beast died at this point but will rise again as an Islamic Empire once again. That is there will be an eighth that is of the seventh or seven.
T8…..The prophesy of Daniel concerning the “Babyloian” Empire’s had nothing to do with , Egypt or Assyria, it only dealt with from the time of Neburchnasser , you must not even read what DANIEL told King Neburchnasser, if you had you would have known it started with his kingdom which was after the Egyptian and Assyrian kingdoms. I have listed correctly the BABYLOIAN type kingdoms as Daniel clearly listed them. Daniel 2:41-45 , plainly show that there are only five “world ruling” kingdoms that are classified as Decendence of the Babyloian empires.
Head of Gold………………………….NEBURCHNASSER ………….Babyloian Empire
Chest of Silver………………………Darius and Cyrus ……. …….Medo-Persian Empire
Belly and Thighs of Brass……Alexander. …. ………………….Greek Empire
Legs of Iron………………………….Ceasars. ………………………….Roman Empire
Feet of Iron and Clay. ………..present ……………………………World rulling nations
These are all decedent’s of the Babyloian type of rule …..buy and sale for gain and military dominance. A combination of nations who are strong as Iron, but are mixed with different nationalities of people and do not agree with each other on how to govern. We are now in the time of the feet of Iron and Clay.
Starting you time before The kingdom of Babyloian is just another of your false teachings.
What I have written on REV 17 , is apsolutely right, you people are mixing up the time line by not understanding that JOHN WAS SPEAKING FROM THE TIME OF THE Sixth kingdom Of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s. You trying to place the events as taking place before the return of Jesus instead of occurring at the end of the millennial reign of Jesus and the Saint’s.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Berean……I do understand the concept of a thousand years is as a day and a day equal a thousand years in God’s timeline. I understood that probably 50 years ago. But the point I am trying to get across is the , time line from which John in Rev 17 WAS SPEAKING FROM, IT IS AT THE END OF THE MILLENNIAL REIGN OF JESUS AND THE SAINT’S. John was projected forward in time to the end of the millennial reign, and was telling us what would take place at that time, and that time is at the end of the millennial reign, not before it.
That is why it says “hear is the mind that has wisdom” in the text, you must see the time he was speaking from and it was not when he was given the REVELATION, that was during the Roman Empire, he was not speaking about that time period. That is why he was talking about the Seventh and eight kingdom to come , he was speaking as from the time of the Sixth kingdom.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
Gene
You tell me: “I understand that the concept of a thousand years is like a day and a day equals a thousand years in God’s time line. I understood that probably 50 years ago”.
But that’s not what this is about. You certainly haven’t read the study I posted (which is not mine by the way)
So tell me how much real time This is discussed in Rev.13. And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given to him to continue for forty-two months.
Gene, you said:
T8…..The prophesy of Daniel concerning the “Babyloian” Empire’s had nothing to do with , Egypt or Assyria, it only dealt with from the time of Neburchnasser
I see you’re struggling to keep up. Let me give you a helping hand here. The topic is called ‘Revelation 17:9-11’ and I have made bold the relevant points so you can hopefully follow along.
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
Now look at the list I compiled. Notice that it has seven kingdoms with reference to an eighth?
Daniel certainly focused on a section of the list, but Revelation provides us with the whole list.
you people are mixing up the time line by not understanding that JOHN WAS SPEAKING FROM THE TIME OF THE Sixth kingdom Of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s.
The sixth kingdom and the kingdom at that time was Rome. The first 8 kingdoms are the kingdoms of the world. The stone which is the Kingdom of God destroys these kingdoms. The stone comes after these kingdom’s reign.
its legs were iron, and its feet were part iron and part clay. While you were watching, a stone was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay, and crushed them. Then the iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold were shattered and became like chaff on the threshing floor in summer. The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that had struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
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