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I have never had a trinitarian be able to explain this scripture..
Revelation 1:1 (NIV)…. 1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Simply put…if Jesus is GOD…how did GOD give him information he DID NOT know while in heaven..would not it be reasonable to say that if GOD is the source of all TRUE knowledge..and Jesus is GOD…then he should have already HAD the revelation being that he is the source of it..
Just for reference:rev·e·la·tion (rv-lshn)
n.
1. a. The act of revealing or disclosing.
b. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
2. Theology A manifestation of divine will or truth.Hi DK,
Very good question. I would like to add that Jesus is God as the begotten God, and I agree, He is not the God that gave Him the revelation. That one is the Most High God. They are not equal, not co-eternal, the Son had a beginning before there was anything in heaven or on earth.Keep up the good work DK,
LUHi dk.
Good topic.
I had a debate with Is about this @ the following location:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1648The thing here is that opponents truly need to tread carefully here because Revelation is the only book with the following warning, ( Revelation 22:18):
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.I found that Is had to add to these words in Revelation to match up his Trinity doctrine with Revelation 1:1.
Whereas those who truly believe that the Father is the only true God and Jesus was the one he sent, didn't have to add or takeaway from the text.
T8….Scholars for thousands of years have not been able to understand all the words of revelations and have made speculations of them. The book was symbolized right at the start and can not be understood without knowing those symbols. I believe that book has never been fully understood so far by any human being. Maybe someone will get all the symbolism straight some day and we can all understand it completely. Isaac Newton has written much about the symbols in the book and it is interesting reading if you Get time check is out, You can find it by typing in (the Isaac Newton project) on the web.
peace ……….gene
God, our father was doing everything through jesus before foundation of the world.Similarly The God our father opened up this revelation to John through jesus.One can understand from this God was revealing to all prophets of bible throgh Jesus preexisting in him.Therefore,Jesus also knows everything as God Knows , but the dispensation of times or the time in which that prophecy comes true is with the God only.It also gives an an inference both god and Our Father do everything in unision.
pulivarthyQuote (dirtyknections @ Aug. 28 2008,01:21) I have never had a trinitarian be able to explain this scripture.. Revelation 1:1 (NIV)…. 1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Simply put…if Jesus is GOD…how did GOD give him information he DID NOT know while in heaven..would not it be reasonable to say that if GOD is the source of all TRUE knowledge..and Jesus is GOD…then he should have already HAD the revelation being that he is the source of it..
Just for reference:rev·e·la·tion (rv-lshn)
n.
1. a. The act of revealing or disclosing.
b. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
2. Theology A manifestation of divine will or truth.
God instructs the Son as to what exactly He will reveal to His servants, Jesus always does the will of the Father. John 12:49 (ESV) For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.”Nowhere does this Scripture (Rev. 1:1) explicitly say that Jesus was given information He did not already know or possess. He simply was told what information God the Father wanted “unveiled” to John the Revelator, thats all. To say that this verse teaches that Jesus did not already know the information is eisiogesis, reading one's own theology into the text.
There…. now you have had a Trinitarian explain Rev. 1:1 to you. Does it matter if you AGREE with this explanation? No. That is irrelevant. Many people are dishonest (not you in particular) by saying things like “no one can explain x, y or z to me from the Trinitarian perspective” when in reality these things may have been “explained' to them many many times. The fact that they may disagree with the explanations is an entirely different matter. But to say that the explanations have not come can be a dishonest statement.
blessings,
KenQuote (epistemaniac @ Sep. 01 2008,03:00) Quote (dirtyknections @ Aug. 28 2008,01:21) I have never had a trinitarian be able to explain this scripture.. Revelation 1:1 (NIV)…. 1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Simply put…if Jesus is GOD…how did GOD give him information he DID NOT know while in heaven..would not it be reasonable to say that if GOD is the source of all TRUE knowledge..and Jesus is GOD…then he should have already HAD the revelation being that he is the source of it..
Just for reference:rev·e·la·tion (rv-lshn)
n.
1. a. The act of revealing or disclosing.
b. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
2. Theology A manifestation of divine will or truth.
God instructs the Son as to what exactly He will reveal to His servants, Jesus always does the will of the Father. John 12:49 (ESV) For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.”Nowhere does this Scripture (Rev. 1:1) explicitly say that Jesus was given information He did not already know or possess. He simply was told what information God the Father wanted “unveiled” to John the Revelator, thats all. To say that this verse teaches that Jesus did not already know the information is eisiogesis, reading one's own theology into the text.
There…. now you have had a Trinitarian explain Rev. 1:1 to you. Does it matter if you AGREE with this explanation? No. That is irrelevant. Many people are dishonest (not you in particular) by saying things like “no one can explain x, y or z to me from the Trinitarian perspective” when in reality these things may have been “explained' to them many many times. The fact that they may disagree with the explanations is an entirely different matter. But to say that the explanations have not come can be a dishonest statement.
blessings,
Ken
Again..you are wrong..check the definition for “revelation”..and try againTo epistemaniac.
Quote (epistemaniac @ Sep. 01 2008,03:00) Quote (dirtyknections @ Aug. 28 2008,01:21) I have never had a trinitarian be able to explain this scripture.. Revelation 1:1 (NIV)…. 1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Simply put…if Jesus is GOD…how did GOD give him information he DID NOT know while in heaven..would not it be reasonable to say that if GOD is the source of all TRUE knowledge..and Jesus is GOD…then he should have already HAD the revelation being that he is the source of it..
Just for reference:rev·e·la·tion (rv-lshn)
n.
1. a. The act of revealing or disclosing.
b. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
2. Theology A manifestation of divine will or truth.
God instructs the Son as to what exactly He will reveal to His servants, Jesus always does the will of the Father. John 12:49 (ESV) For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.”Nowhere does this Scripture (Rev. 1:1) explicitly say that Jesus was given information He did not already know or possess. He simply was told what information God the Father wanted “unveiled” to John the Revelator, thats all. To say that this verse teaches that Jesus did not already know the information is eisiogesis, reading one's own theology into the text.
There…. now you have had a Trinitarian explain Rev. 1:1 to you. Does it matter if you AGREE with this explanation? No. That is irrelevant. Many people are dishonest (not you in particular) by saying things like “no one can explain x, y or z to me from the Trinitarian perspective” when in reality these things may have been “explained' to them many many times. The fact that they may disagree with the explanations is an entirely different matter. But to say that the explanations have not come can be a dishonest statement.
blessings,
Ken
Yes the son could know things but doesn't reveal them until he gets the go-ahead that is possible, but Jesus is not all knowing, he said it himself:Matthew 24:36
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.And he is also not everywhere in that he has a body.
Revelation 1:13-15
13 and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,”dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.Jesus is seated at the right hand of the majesty on high. He is not the majesty that he is sitting next to:
Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.”Acts 7:55
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.Simply put, Jesus is not God, he is the son of God, and the revelation that Jesus is the son of God is by all accounts what Hell is trying to prevail against. Do not give the enemy the victory here in your life.
Matthew 16:15-17
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.So to wrap up, God gave the revelation to Christ, who gave it to an angel, who gave it to John, who gave it to the seven churches, who gave it to us.
If you try and make out that Jesus is God, then you are changing the simple meaning of what Revelation 1:1 is saying.
Revelation 1:1
1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,My advice to you epistemaniac, is to not add or take away from the above verse. There are serious consequences to doing that.
Revelation 22:18-19
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
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