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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2008,18:22) Hi GB,
So all men will eventually produce good fruit if all are to be saved?
Fine theory but little current evidence exists.
Nick…..NOW IS NOT THE ONLY DAY OF SALVATION, I BELIEVE ALL MANKIND WILL BE SAVED YET AS BY FIRE (INTENSE JUDGMENTS)IMO…….gene
Hi GB,
Thanks.
You realise that verse is in a letter to the saved in Corinth
so does not apply to the heathen nations?Fair warning to the saved everywhere not to be complacent.
Nick………Who here has (EVER SAID) to (BE) COMPLACENT, I have not heard that from anyone, so why should you assume any here is complacent then, Do you think because we speak with positive Faith in God and his saving power that makes us complacent ? Where did you ever get that idea from no one here who says believe and trust in God is broadcasting complacency. So why do you assume it. You are Judging without cause, so i would say to you get the log out of your own eye first.
I have questions about the eternity of damnation myself… I truly have to get this out in the open…
I honestly question the eternity of hell, because I read an article talking about the improper translation of the words “eternity” and words like it, to mean “to the ages” or whatever.
One thing is for sure: there are certain angels who will never have forgiveness.
Another thing is for sure: there are certain people who will never be forgiven. (Mark 3:29)
Is it possible the angels committed this unpardonable sin?
Also, Matt 12:32 says that the people who blaspheme the Father or the Son can be forgiven, but those who blaspheme the Spirit of God will never be forgiven – “…not in THIS AGE, NOR IN THE AGES TO COME.”
What does this mean that it is possible for men to be punished for a certain extent of time? Until some unknown age? It certainly was the case with some of the fallen angels in Enoch who would be punished for 10,000 years but afterwards get out…
We must be careful in speaking about this, “…that no one should make you fall from [their] watchfulness.”I think this very topic made me sort of lax about things…
I know that the flames of hell are eternal, but is the punishment eternal?
If someone could clarify this, I would appreciate it. I sure don't want to go to the lake of fire anyhow – I don't care how long or short of a stay it is, shoot!The torment of those who receive the mark of the beast, and who are in “Babylon” when it falls (the saints are called out) will rise for ever (does this mean they blasphemed God's Spirit?) it says that all flesh will look on the ones who transgressed against the Lord Is. 66:24 … BUT not all kingdoms are included in that, are they? … When Jesus returns, He kills the fourth beast, but the first three are left on the earth, over whom we, the saints, and Jesus, will rule with rods of iron. (Dan. 7:11,12; Rev 2:26,27; Rev 14:11; Luke 19:17)
Hanoch……. welcome to the site…..>if you think about it there is a reason blaspheme against the spirit (Can not ) be forgiven, Most don't realize why, It doesn't say they will die does it, it simple say it wont be forgiven, what is being forgiven mean, it means to be overlooked by GOD or somebody. The reason blaspheme cant be because a person is speaking out against the Spirit (of truth) and the person will have to change his view and except what the spirit is doing and saying. Another words the Spirit of truth is absolute and nothing can Speak against truth and not be dealt with. Nowhere in that scripture does it say the person will die as a result of speaking against it, the person will have to come into judgement and change his view. The reason the Spirit of truth (IS TRUTH) and truth cannot change ever so the person who spoke against it must. therefore it is a unpardonable sin and as a result (REQUIRES CHANGE) on the part of the one who commits it, you see it not ever forgiven. It cant be, because truth cant change and the Spirit of truth, is truth.
IMO………….gene
Hi GM,
These threads are open to all. Private dialogue can occur via PM.
False and misleading postings are challenged encouraging those who post to find supportive proofs in scripture.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2008,20:14) Hi GM,
These threads are open to all. Private dialogue can occur via PM.
False and misleading postings are challenged encouraging those who post to find supportive proofs in scripture.
Nick….if you disagree with the post the present your proof or wouldn't it be better for all to keep your nose out of it, again your (ACTING) like a Judge of a person and not a participant in whats being discussed , you don't see the (EVIL) in what your doing? If you disagree simply state your point. Or just read the dialog and you might learn something.IMOQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,11:51) Hanoch……. welcome to the site…..>if you think about it there is a reason blaspheme against the spirit (Can not ) be forgiven, Most don't realize why, It doesn't say they will die does it, it simple say it wont be forgiven, what is being forgiven mean, it means to be overlooked by GOD or somebody. The reason blaspheme cant be because a person is speaking out against the Spirit (of truth) and the person will have to change his view and except what the spirit is doing and saying. Another words the Spirit of truth is absolute and nothing can Speak against truth and not be dealt with. Nowhere in that scripture does it say the person will die as a result of speaking against it, the person will have to come into judgement and change his view. The reason the Spirit of truth (IS TRUTH) and truth cannot change ever so the person who spoke against it must. therefore it is a unpardonable sin and as a result (REQUIRES CHANGE) on the part of the one who commits it, you see it not ever forgiven. It cant be, because truth cant change and the Spirit of truth, is truth. IMO………….gene
I've tried to really figure out why also… I arrived at this point: the son can be misunderstood; the Father can be misunderstood, but the Spirit is the ESSENCE of God… and He is so good… like the oil of a lemon, the Spirit is the essence of God, and “tastes” more like God than even God does. (Lemon oil tastes strong, have you tasted it?)
It is not that improper theology can send you to hell, but stubbornness can… stubbornness is one of the opposites of faith – it is what the Pharisees had.
Truth is subject to Love, because the language of Love is the Truth, but as you can see, the truth that we had to die because our soul had sinned was too much for Love, so Love made a way to keep that truth but still save us. When we believe in Jesus, we believe “into” Him, and we are “crucified with Christ” and “we have died to sin”; it isn't about changing their views — “not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord” is the way to fulfill His commandments. Zech. 4.
There was a definite speaking out against the Spirit by the Jews; not just disagreement… it is what it is, take it at face value, I would say.
Think about it: Jesus was the exact expression of the Spirit of God… how wonderful He must have been!!! He was always in the Spirit; always full of joy; always filled with love; always had that “God” quality LOL so for the stubborn people who could not accept that someone else was getting the attention…
Truth will not be changed (None of Jesus' bones were broken)
But truth can definitely be circumvented while STILL MAINTAINING it by the force of love, since Love governs truth. Truth is an instance, or an incident, of love. Truth is the proof of love.
“Did not He who made the outside of the cup also make the inside of the cup? Therefore, clean the inside and the outside will be clean also.” This is in reference to our thoughts. In Malachi, it says that a lie is like a container with a hole in it – no matter how much you try to fill it, it always leaks: lies cannot contain love. Truth is the only container of love, but the point is not truth, but love. We love the truth for its reward, and it isn't the works, but the reward we look to:
“And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her.” Gen 29:20
Which reminds me of John “…that we obey His commandments, and they are not burdensome to us.”
I would have you remember that God is not here to give you something to boast about, but rather He is love, and the reward is love… Truth – as we have viewed it many times – is not truth. Truth is the highway by which the precious cargo travels: love.
“Let love be your highest aim.”
Praise God…Hanoch…….. All Spirit is intellect, the intellect to (RECOGNIZE) truth is whats given all who have it in them, and it is recognizable to those who have it. For the spirit bears witness with our Spirit that we (ARE THE SONS OF GOD). You can call it an essence i guess, it is definitely an attribute of GOD.
To really have spiritual understanding it take GOD'S Spirit, or you will only understand things on a Carnal level. That mind can not recieve the things of God it just doesn't have the capacity to.IMO
Hi GB,
Again your dogma says this but you have yet to produce one scripture to give it any validity.
Why do you claim infallibility and teach what you cannot find written?
The Spirit does not speak of his own initiativeLife is the Light
The Spirit of God is an IS.The Spirit is not an intellect; the Spirit is that which precedes intellect; it is a nature:
“In Him [Jesus] was life, and that life was the light of men.” John 1:4
What – or Who – was in Him? The Spirit of God.
“Do not drink the blood, for the life is in the blood.” What else is in the blood but the breath, which is the spirit?So, the Spirit is the Life, and the Source of the Light.
Spirit = Life, which is the:
Light = Information/Intellect
Information is the coincidental explanation of REALITY.
The nature of God is the IS/Spirit.“I AM THAT I AM”
The Life is the Light, but the Light is not always the Life: “the letter of the word kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
When I speak words, if I have integrity, they are encapsulations of myself; my ideas, which are promulgated by my spirit/breath Prov 16:23; indistinguishable — herein, Christians are in the process of becoming one in word and deed with the Spirit that is in them, as humans also must mature from babies into maturity.
Without the Spirit of God, I would never have the idea/intellect/light to love someone, wherefore it is said that the “night is coming, when no man may work”. Night speaks of the time when “truth is thrown to the ground.” Matt 13:58+Matt 24:12+Dan. 8:12 and the coming of the night is in accordance with a time when “the love of many will grow cold.”
Someone once said this:
“Holiness is a Spirit; so what I'm looking for is to be more holy, it's not going to be by acting more holy, its going to be by knowing that Spirit that causes holiness…”Nick……there you go lying again, If i teach infallibility of GOD and trust in what he said , why do you try to make it i am saying infallibility in myself, You are the one who preaches trust in yourself and not in GOD'S word not me. It's your (DOGMA) thats the problem here not mine. The difference here is simple, I put my trust completely in God and His power to save, you Put your trust in yourself and your own choices by your own efforts to gain salvation.
Hanoch….I have to disagree with you on the Spirit not being intellect, it is intellect from GOD that comes into our mind and hearts. What knows a man except the Spirit within him. Spirit is pure intellect. There is a intellect of man and there is a intellect of GOD both are Spirits.
IMO………..gene
Quote (Hanoch @ July 20 2008,09:34) Life is the Light
The Spirit of God is an IS.The Spirit is not an intellect; the Spirit is that which precedes intellect; it is a nature:
“In Him [Jesus] was life, and that life was the light of men.” John 1:4
What – or Who – was in Him? The Spirit of God.
“Do not drink the blood, for the life is in the blood.” What else is in the blood but the breath, which is the spirit?So, the Spirit is the Life, and the Source of the Light.
Spirit = Life, which is the:
Light = Information/Intellect
Information is the coincidental explanation of REALITY.
The nature of God is the IS/Spirit.“I AM THAT I AM”
The Life is the Light, but the Light is not always the Life: “the letter of the word kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
When I speak words, if I have integrity, they are encapsulations of myself; my ideas, which are promulgated by my spirit/breath Prov 16:23; indistinguishable — herein, Christians are in the process of becoming one in word and deed with the Spirit that is in them, as humans also must mature from babies into maturity.
Without the Spirit of God, I would never have the idea/intellect/light to love someone, wherefore it is said that the “night is coming, when no man may work”. Night speaks of the time when “truth is thrown to the ground.” Matt 13:58+Matt 24:12+Dan. 8:12 and the coming of the night is in accordance with a time when “the love of many will grow cold.”
Someone once said this:
“Holiness is a Spirit; so what I'm looking for is to be more holy, it's not going to be by acting more holy, its going to be by knowing that Spirit that causes holiness…”
HI HanochExcellent post! You are correct. The Spirit is life and preceeds truth.
The Father and Yeshua are Spirit.
Contained within the Father and Yeshua are all treasures of wisdom and knowledge or intellect.
The Spirit speaks and the Word is.
Blessings! WJ
Hi WJ,
Jesus was flesh and bones.Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.But now he is risen
” …the Lord is the Spirit”God and God's Son one in the unity of the Spirit.
We too can join in that unity, but we also never become that God.
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