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Quote (Theologian-and-Apologist @ July 14 2008,12:39) I myself do not believe that the pray gets you to heaven, it is the trusting in Christ. I think no matter how you dice it, if you are truly saved you will want to offer yourself wholly to God.
Hi T&A, Eph.2:8-10
8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.Notice “and this is not out of you”. (it is God)
Also “lest anyone should be boasting” (yes, I did it myself)
And “for HIS (GOD) Achievement are we. (not me?)Blessings.
Chosenone….>Amen brother. We do not trust in ourselves we trust in God who work's in us BOTH to will and do of His good pleasure. His (GRACE) God indluence in our Hearts causes to Naturaly do what his wills is and if we fail His Grace teaches us to repent and ask Him for forgiveness. and He is FAITHFUL to FORGIVE US, and CLEANS US from (ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS) a person either believes that or Not, it just that simple.
But you breathern have not come to that mountain to (FEAR) and Trimble as they (or some here did and do), But you have come to that HOLY CITY whose (BUILDER AND MAKER IS GOD)
But the fear mongers who are unbelievers, will have their part in the lake of fire.
Love and peace to you and yours…………gene
Hi ,
All must repent.Acts 17
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
32And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
33So Paul departed from among them.
This gospel is still mocked.
Nick…..No your gospel is mocked, not Paul's or Jesus', the gospel of fear mongers has no place in the children of GOD, for it is God that watches over His Children. I believe everyone here is being called of God and needs to be encouraged to not doubt in Him for salvation, He is a loving and merciful God who teaches us all how to repent and follow his way, Strong in saving power and will not suffer His elect to fail, but will continually guide them by the Spirit He has given them. But the fearful and unbelieving will have their part of the lake of fire.
Hi GB,
Complacency is also a cause of being spat out.
The righteous fear of God is a thread running through scripture from beginning to end.Nick, let us not trust ouselves, but Christ Jesus. Let it be our precious privilege to preach Christ crucified to those who know Him not; and to those who know Him, Christ glorified. Let Christ be first and Christ be last and Christ fill all between. Let us not look back and vaunt ourselves with, “I prayed, I repented, I was baptized, and I—,” but let us rather shout with the Apostle “no longer I, but CHRIST!” If I had a hand in my salvation it must needs contain a flaw, for I find failure fills everything I do.
Blessings.
Hi,
We are privileged to be used to help the master bring babies into the kingdom.
He needs us who are reborn into his body to fulfill the plans of God.Let all have their names written in the book of life and share the evidence of the witnesses in heaven.[1Jn5]
Nick…..fear mongers are those who destory true faith and are a curse to God'S Children who have their faith in the Father.
The fearful who are the unbelieving will have there part in the lake of fire. Nick why is that in scripture. Can you give us a answer?
Quote (Theologian-and-Apologist @ July 15 2008,04:39) I myself do not believe that the pray gets you to heaven, it is the trusting in Christ. I think no matter how you dice it, if you are truly saved you will want to offer yourself wholly to God.
Powerful statement.What do you mean by 'scientific' christian? Just curious.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,04:48) Nick…..fear mongers are those who destory true faith and are a curse to God'S Children who have their faith in the Father. The fearful who are the unbelieving will have there part in the lake of fire. Nick why is that in scripture. Can you give us a answer?
Hi Gene,I do not understand your views. They seem contradictory. First, you say that all on this site are called and should trust in God for salvation, then you say that the 'fear mongers' that are on here will have their part in the lake of fire. Doesn't make sense. If we are called and just need to sit back and let God do the rest, then there would be no one here in danger of the lake of fire….
Shania….Show me where i or anyone else here said we just need to sit back and let God do the rest, God works (IN US) to (DO HIS WILL)and GOOD PLEASURE> Do you think when i say that i mean we are doing nothing. No you are taking what scripture says as meaning that not me or anyone here as fare as i have seen.
I said all here are called that's right, but not all chosen, fear mongers are only kidding themselves, if we can't preach (true ) Faith in our Heavenly Father and believe in His saving power to work His will in us them we are worthless, to Him and Jesus. He who puts his hands to the plow should not look back, He should keep looking forward. The fearful are doubters and are serving only themselves, not God no matter how pious they sound. I would hate to be in a real battle with any of them. The lack courage and therefore are weak to the cause of Christ.
IMO……..gene
Hi Shania,
Please don't go into judgmental part. If you are interested in knowing about this myth of 'free will', please gothrough the wonderful link below.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
Thanks and blessings
AdamI think there is a misunderstanding and a generalization happening here:
There is a belief that the people who believe that it is possible for salvation to be lost are trusting in themselves for their own salvation. This is not true. The only possible way for man to be saved is by the grace {favor} of God.
Rom 5:6-7
6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
NIVRom 5:7-8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
NIVSin made us absolutely powerless. Sin separates us from God. That is why we need to be set free. The wages of sin is death. The life of the flesh is in the blood. [hence, animal sacrifices in th OT] We needed a blood sacrifice to atone for sin. Since man broke the contract, only a perfect man could restore it. Out of His incredible love for us, God sent his own son to be our sin offering. This is grace[favor]. Eternal life is to be joined back to Him. It is relationship. It is intimacy. [Jn 17:3]
However, light cannot abide with darkness. This is why we have to die to our sin and to our flesh. “The flesh cannot please God.” The only way that we can do this is to be yoked with Messiah. The whole point of yoking oxen together is so that the young, inexperienced, rebellious ox can learn from the one who knows how to walk in the yoke. We learn how to walk from Messiah. He is the way. We cannot do anything without Him and there truly is nothing good in us. He is the vine, the source of life for us branches. We cannot survive without Him. We cannot depend on ourselves for salvation.
However, we must remain on the vine. We must wear the yoke. If we try to separate from Him, we will be separated from the Father. There will be no life in us and the branch that does not bear fruit [by remaining on the vine] is cut off.
John 14:23-24
23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
NIVYou see, obedience is out of love; not out of fear. I do not obey because I fear losing my salvation. I obey because I love Him. These teachings have nothing to do with fear [in that sense]. We serve a loving God, who is on our side. He wants us all to come into salvation; fellowship with Him. But light cannot abide with darkness. We must purify ourselves in order to see Him
1 John 3:2-3
2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure .
NIVThe only way that we can purify ourselves is by submission to Him. We need Him to wash us. We do not depend on ourselves for salvation. There is nothing good in us.
Quote (gollamudi @ July 17 2008,05:44) Hi Shania,
Please don't go into judgmental part. If you are interested in knowing about this myth of 'free will', please gothrough the wonderful link below.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
Thanks and blessings
Adam
Gene and Adam-I apologize for sounding judgemental. I really am not trying to attack you, I just do not understand these beliefs. They do not make any sense to me. I do not see how they line up with the whole of scripture.
Shania….What beliefs are you talking about? Free will, or something else?
love and peace to you and yours……..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,05:38) Shania….Show me where i or anyone else here said we just need to sit back and let God do the rest, God works (IN US) to (DO HIS WILL)and GOOD PLEASURE> Do you think when i say that i mean we are doing nothing. No you are taking what scripture says as meaning that not me or anyone here as fare as i have seen. I said all here are called that's right, but not all chosen, fear mongers are only kidding themselves, if we can't preach (true ) Faith in our Heavenly Father and believe in His saving power to work His will in us them we are worthless, to Him and Jesus. He who puts his hands to the plow should not look back, He should keep looking forward. The fearful are doubters and are serving only themselves, not God no matter how pious they sound. I would hate to be in a real battle with any of them. The lack courage and therefore are weak to the cause of Christ.
IMO……..gene
I made an inference, yes. I openly admit that I do not understand this teaching. I obviously interpreted your statements inaccurately.You say:
“Do you think when i say that i mean we are doing nothing.”
[This is just a question, not an attack:]
According to this teaching, what does the believer do? What part does she/he play? [since you are not 'doing nothing']
You also say:
fear mongers are only kidding themselves, if we can't preach (true ) Faith in our Heavenly Father and believe in His saving power to work His will in us them we are worthless, to Him and Jesus. He who puts his hands to the plow should not look back, He should keep looking forward. The fearful are doubters and are serving only themselves, not God no matter how pious they sound. I would hate to be in a real battle with any of them. The lack courage and therefore are weak to the cause of Christ.
If you truly believe that there are people who are bound by fear, shouldn't you have mercy on them? You believe that they are lost, why not love and encourage and try to save rather than condemn?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,06:06) Shania….What beliefs are you talking about? Free will, or something else? love and peace to you and yours……..gene
I just started reading the link of free will.I see what you mean about how man is always influenced. I agree on that.
There are only two choices: life and death. These are based on the only two forces: light and darkness. Good and evil. YHWH and the devil.
This is where we differ:
man has the choice to side with either of those two forces. They both pull and they both influence, but man has the choice. That is why it says, “choose life”
Deut 30:19-20
19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life , so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life
NIV2 Kings 18:32
Choose life and not death!
NIVI know that these are from the OT, and you may not apply the OT to your life in the way that I do, but:
2 Tim 3:15-16
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
NIV[This is a NT scripture written about the OT scriptures {b/c that is all they had at the time}]
Eph 5:8-18
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
“Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”15 Be very careful, then, how you live — not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.
NIVIf God was going to will in us to make choices for Him, then we would not be told these things:
“Live as children of light”
“Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them”
“Be very careful, then, how you live”
“Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.”
Why would we be responsible for understanding YHWH's will if He was going to work it in us anyway? If we could not make any choices on our own, why are we told to be careful how we lived? Wouldn't the choices be inevitable?
Shania…..what bothers me about fear mongers is what they do to others faith and trust in God when they fail and sin,they can become discouraged by these people. Look i or Chosenone or Adam or no one else here has said we won't be doing things that show the fruits of the Spirit in our lives, if we are of God and Jesus, we certainly will be loving each other and encouraging each other all the time and not just here but in our families and communities and to our friends and relatives, Yes we will be doing these things (IF) we Have GOD'S Spirit in us we are being driven by that GRACE WORKING IN US, to (DO) these things. NO ONE has said we are not to do this, But to assume we are saying that these are not being done without any proof and throwing out Judgmental scriptures is Not of GOD. These fear mongers take liberty with people they don't even know, why because they gave some positives scriptures that GOD HIMSELF SAID, who do they think the are, taking Liberties with GOD”S Hertiage. To discourage them by calling them Luke warn , when they don't even KNOW THEY ARE or not They try to take Jesus' place. If a person need correction GOD is very capable of correcting His children He has me over the years without any mans Help.
love and peace to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (Shania @ July 16 2008,14:30) There are only two choices: life and death. These are based on the only two forces: light and darkness. Good and evil. YHWH and the devil. This is where we differ:
man has the choice to side with either of those two forces. They both pull and they both influence, but man has the choice. That is why it says, “choose life”
I agree Shania.We do have choice. Adam had a choice and we do.
Somethings are given to us not out of choice, but we ultimately choose how we react.
If there was no choice, then God created man as a robot.
But we are sons and daughters of the Msot High God and with that come responsibility and if there is no choice, then why are we responsible for our lives?
T8….a man will only do whats in him and whats in him, as scripture says he received from the world, “the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride that comes from life. These all cane from the world and infected all man kind through Adam as scripture says. If you understood man does (NOT) have free moral agency nor Free WILL, you could understand that. God does not ask us if we want to obey Him as if the choice is ours, NO He commands us to. God does not hold His commandment out as some kind of moral option, No He commands His children to keep them. But history shows (NO ONE HAS) so, so much for mans so-called free moral agency or free will. The Father dose not leave any options to us to choose any thing when it comes to our own salvation, History has proved no one has made the right choice yet, except Jesus and that was because God was with Him and keep him from sinning by His GRACE, “it is NOT WITHIN A MAN, to direct HIS PATHS, God must do that by giving Him a (NEW) nature and take HIS abode (IN) HIM where do you see it's up to us there, and again “for you are (CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS)” where do you see our so-called FREE MORAL AGENCY OR FREE WILL there. The problem is Man does not want to obey GOD they want to BE GOD>And decide for themselves what right or wrong for them by their So-called Free wills.
imo., peace to yuou……………gene
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