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Quote Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Meerkat
I'm responding to you from the “universal salvation” thread.
You are wrong on several accounts.
I never said a remnant will be saved, don't know were you got that from.
I never mentioned 20% or 80% in anything.
I never said the unrepentant will be tormented in the lake of fire, in fact I said, they will be destroyed.
You're confusing me with what Nick says and believes.
I also see that it is pointless to talk sense to any one that has made up their mind.
But it was fun for a while.Georg
Georg,
I apologise for putting you in a box of belief in the eventual destruction/eternal torment of some (remnant) of Gods creation, I was replying to Jodi who was feeling frustration with the concept that a loving & just God will destroy a percentage of his creation – to us scripture says that all will be saved. I was addressing Jodi about the universal salvation/eternal torment debate using Nick and your names attached to generalisations which I should not have done.
1 Tim 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
It does not say ONLY those that believe.
It is like there are scriptures that say a remnant of Israel will be saved and also ALL Israel is to be saved – are they talking about different times and situations physical and spiritual salvation?
Those are the thoughts I am trying to pursue.
Once again hasty words lead to regret ………….
To All………I says God (IS) LOVE………Does love through His Children He brought forth into an ever burning Lake of Fire and watch them scream out in pain and anguish for ever , When He has the power to change their hearts and minds and transform them into His loving children, Think about it, God the Father is not weak and His powers to transform and Heal is every where, He is no failure and His will is that non parish, so I would say there is a very good chance non will. Read what chosenone posted.
love and peace to you all………………………gene
Meerkat, thank you for clearing that up.
At the beginning of the millennium Satan will be put away.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
It is during these thousand years that Jesus will rule the world, with no evil influence from Satan the devil. Christ will judge the world, but judging does not mean sentencing, and condemning. He will teach all people, the living and the dead; the dead after they have been resurrected.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Remember, this is during the millennium; the first resurrection took place before the millennium.
All the dead will be resurrected, but not all at once.
Also, most people that read this verse think that if you have done evil you're doomed, far from it.
Christ died for all, and he will give the vilest criminal a chance to say, I'm sorry.1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order:…
I'm leaving out the rest of the verse 23, so not to confuse the point I'm trying to make. People are born and resurrected all through the millennium.
There will be no denominations to chose from, only the truth will be taught.Hab 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
After the millennium Satan will be loosed from his prison, and watch what he will do.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
These are all that in spite of all the teaching, rebelled against God, followed Satan, and were destroyed for ever; no torturing. Just as Peter said.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet (Jesus), shall be destroyed from among the people.
All Israel will be saved in the end, but again, only those that obey God, as you already said, God is no respecter of person.
There is a remnant of the Israelites mentioned in Rev. 12.Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep (have) the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The woman is Israel, the remnant of her seed are all the Israelites/Jews scattered all over the world, some of which have returned to their land.
Go through it slowly, and don't let Nick throw you of balance.Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,16:35) GB,
No goats at all then?
Nick…..first of all the Goats your mentioning are (NATIONS) not necessarily individual persons, secondly the term Gathered and Burned to (ME) means they go into intense Judgments, not a literal (FIRE) that burns them up as you think. If you are in the household of God your are being Salted with (FIRE) intense Judgments (NOW)> For Judgment begins whit the house hold of GOD. ” Now brethren concerning this (Fiery trial that has tried you)”. We should view fire in scripture as intense Judgment that purifies. And it purges the Evil out as , Literal fire purges dross out of metals.love and peace to you and yours brother……………….gene
GB,
Mt 25
” 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
So Jesus is NOT NECESSARILY speaking to individuals here?
Well is he doing so or is he not?
Make up your mind.Georg….I just reread it , tell me this, how can death and Hades be cast into a literal lake of fire. Death and Hades can be cast into a state of intense Judgment and devolved away though. We have to begin to see things more in a spiritual sense i believe, remember the book of revelations was (Signified) meaning (symbolized), The Symbol for (FIRE) is used through out scripture as a form of intense Judgement that purges out sin. When God destroyed Sodom in scripture it purged the earth of that evil city, but were the people eternally destroyed (No) it says that they will recieve more mercy in the resurrection then the Pharisee of Jesus Day will, but even , Jesus said they (Pharisee) would go into the Kingdom behind Sodom and others.
Goerg…..this false concept of fire as literal is used to produce fear in people it gives many Churches the power over the Minds and lives of people, you surely know that , I believe you i heard you once say you and your wife were in the World Wide Church of God ,right, then you should, know how they used this fear to control people. I was in there probably when you and your wife were brother, we did learn a lot about the old covenant. Fire is Symbolic in scripture Georg,. IMO
love to you and you Georg……………..gene
GB,
Do we need to understand HOW before we believe?
Luke 7:35
But wisdom is justified of all her children.Gene
Death is a condition, and the grave is a place where you put the one in, who is in that condition.
The last enemy to be destroyed is death, but that can only be done if you destroy him who has the power over death, Satan.1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
So, by casting Satan the devil into the lake of fire, you destroy; and you are right, symbolically, death and the grave because from then on, there will be no more death; and if there is no death you want need a grave.
Not a false concept at all.Georg
Georg
Some questions/thoughts I have – the “lake of fire” is prepared for the devil and his angels “demons” however nowhere do you see the “demons” being cast into the “lake of fire” however you do see that anything (one) not found “written” in the “book of life” being cast into the “lake of fire” which is “the second death” also death and hell are cast in to the “lake of fire” not just Satan being cast in.
I believe that the messengers of the devil is the very carnal nature that we posses and that was what Jesus overcame – his carnal nature by the Holy Spirit (spirit is not bound to time and space and genetics) It seems that Revelation is not all about physical things spoken about in symbols but is a combination of physical and spiritual things being explained in symbols and physical terms.The fire being talked about is not literal fire coming out of the sky (heaven is a spiritual dimension not outer space – God is a spirit and is not bound to time and space like the physical universe is – spiritual things relate to a dimension that is outside of time and space and the physical universe – however the language that is used to describe it of physical things that symbolise the spiritual.
The judgements in Isaiah 28 against the Jews sounds similar to Revelation judgement against the nations
Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 20 2008,06:16) Gene Death is a condition, and the grave is a place where you put the one in, who is in that condition.
The last enemy to be destroyed is death, but that can only be done if you destroy him who has the power over death, Satan.1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
So, by casting Satan the devil into the lake of fire, you destroy; and you are right, symbolically, death and the grave because from then on, there will be no more death; and if there is no death you want need a grave.
Not a false concept at all.Georg
GeorgFrom what I have been hearing death is not a physical condition only, it is also a spiritual condition – so death and the grave are not only physical conditions to be overcome but are spiritual ones as well.
Explain to me how this is true – in adam = all die / In Christ = all alive
if as you say, some will not accept Christ and will be eternally dead, as in not alive, that is not alive spiritually.
Jesus says he is the resurrection and life and he overcame death.
From what I can see Jesus mission was a spiritual one and his resurrection IS spirit and life
Hi MK,
I believe death is also a place.
Hades is a place and they are aligned.
Revelation 1:18
and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death for all time,And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;For the LORD has spoken.Psalm 89:48
What man can live and not see death?Can he deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah.This is the DEATH that is thown into the lake of fire, the second death.
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